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Russian Federation102 Posts
On November 11 2021 12:40 Kitai wrote:I really enjoy rivalry, mild trash talk, and oversized egos in e-sports, and I do think it helps grow community participation. I used to relish matches between TL and EG for example, and loved it when the Boss Toss MC would say ridiculous things. It helped to tell a story and give people something to cheer for or against. There are very few players like that left - Dark and Reynor come to mind a little bit, and PartinG on his stream but not so much in public tournaments. Personally, I don't want SC2 to be a completely sterile place set aside for sophisticated adults only. Some drama and swagger helps spice things up and brings in new viewers (and potential players) to the scene and I don't want to be the old guy telling the young'ins to behave and get off my lawn. I'd encourage some rebelliousness in anyone who wants to go for that sort of thing  That said, I never enjoyed any sort of overly personal or vulgar insults, or drama that actually damaged the integrity of the game (like the NaNiwa probe rush or the match fixing scandals). The ladder was also a cesspit of people who would just constantly say horrible things to each other, which is why I haven't put serious time into ladder since WoL - not sure if that's still the case. IdrA in particular was a tough case for me. He obviously cared a lot about the game and brought in the views (he was a participant in some of the most memorable moments of early SC2), and his personal friends said he was a really nice/smart guy behind the scenes. Unfortunately, the way he lashed out at people sometimes was pretty uncomfortable and made me not want to watch.
see this is what i dont understand. you stop playing the game because some people said mean things to you on ladder?
i would say not even 10% of my games result in bm but even when they do i just cant help but laugh. what goes through your mind when you read "fuck you die asshole" after a game? you are not first person i have hear say this.
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On November 11 2021 09:15 confusedzerg wrote:WombaT, you make good point. i love watch UFC. not sure if you are familiar, you mention conor, but every time there is fight, during the pre-fight press conference, the fighters are talking a lot of shit. a LOT of shit. then, when the fight is over, they hug and compliment each other. they didn't mean any of it but sometimes they can be very convincing. to the others, it would be immature to say ufc fans are immature for enjoying this, yes? it's well known that they do this simply to draw viewers in. some fighters are better at it than others. sure there are some fights where the fighters say "i have nothing but respect for my opponent i hope is good fight", and opponent says same thing, and that is okay too. but it is more entertaining when they talk shit. i do not know if you have saw the conor vs khabib fight. but conor was talking lots of shit before fight, even saying thing about khabib religion and wife wearing a towel (burka) during marriage, and khabib culture this is very serious so he take offense. thus in middle of fight conor said to him "its only business" aka i was only saying these things for our own benefit. sure he maybe took it too far and this happen in sc2 sometimes, many westerner probably think it is too far when combatex call someone faggot or so for one example. it is up to the person. for example i do not think combatex would say this to scarlett or whatever. i think the boundary is obvious most time and it seem like they never really crossed this line except when idra said thing about his fans which made him get remove from EG. others like deezer are just immune to this effect but also exclude them from many other thing like joining team. guru is banned from many tournament for being accused of racist sayings. it's tricky and i hate to beat dead horse but current cancel culture doesnt help this either. but that is separate discussion lets ignore i said that. Show nested quote +'It's just words' is just a stupid copout to justify asinine behaviour. Yes there's satisfaction upon beating some angry idiot, I'll give you that. The rest of the time? If I lose, win/draw whatever have I had fun? Have I had a nice, honourable battle of wits with an opponent, have I had a chance to maybe, fuck call me crazy but friend the guy and find a good practice partner or someone to play team games with?
i do think this is silly though. you are treating it more than just words i think. the man is not justified for saying he hope i get cancer, never said this, but i would not be justified if i took offense. why? because it's not a personal insult, its from a stranger mad at a game. maybe you dont think it is funny but dont take offense. that's fine. but i have read reddit thread about people saying they will quit game because of BM. that is silly to me. rather than justify i am trying to say it should be expected especailyl on internet game.
Yes, you are immature for enjoying two man-babies screaming toxic filth at each other. Pantomime villainy and clever insults prior to a UFC fight is fine. Racist, homophobic, sexist garbage is not. And while yes, context is important, imagine the following. "I'm not a racist, I only use the n-word around white people." Does that sound like a statement you want to get behind? Different people have different senses of humor, it's true. It is not inappropriate to extrapolate to some degree based on what people find funny. If someone finds racism, homophobia, sexism, targeted harassment to be funny, it may reveal something about their personality. The majority of the community has thankfully decided that these people do not have a place here.
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On November 12 2021 00:41 confusedzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2021 12:40 Kitai wrote:I really enjoy rivalry, mild trash talk, and oversized egos in e-sports, and I do think it helps grow community participation. I used to relish matches between TL and EG for example, and loved it when the Boss Toss MC would say ridiculous things. It helped to tell a story and give people something to cheer for or against. There are very few players like that left - Dark and Reynor come to mind a little bit, and PartinG on his stream but not so much in public tournaments. Personally, I don't want SC2 to be a completely sterile place set aside for sophisticated adults only. Some drama and swagger helps spice things up and brings in new viewers (and potential players) to the scene and I don't want to be the old guy telling the young'ins to behave and get off my lawn. I'd encourage some rebelliousness in anyone who wants to go for that sort of thing That said, I never enjoyed any sort of overly personal or vulgar insults, or drama that actually damaged the integrity of the game (like the NaNiwa probe rush or the match fixing scandals). The ladder was also a cesspit of people who would just constantly say horrible things to each other, which is why I haven't put serious time into ladder since WoL - not sure if that's still the case. IdrA in particular was a tough case for me. He obviously cared a lot about the game and brought in the views (he was a participant in some of the most memorable moments of early SC2), and his personal friends said he was a really nice/smart guy behind the scenes. Unfortunately, the way he lashed out at people sometimes was pretty uncomfortable and made me not want to watch. see this is what i dont understand. you stop playing the game because some people said mean things to you on ladder? i would say not even 10% of my games result in bm but even when they do i just cant help but laugh. what goes through your mind when you read "fuck you die asshole" after a game? you are not first person i have hear say this.
Like I said, idk how it is now, but players in WoL would go far beyond a simple "fuck you die asshole" on a regular basis, both during and after a game. I can't help but feel that their behavior was bolstered by certain pros in the spotlight at the time doing similar things. Also, as someone who was pretty depressed at the time, those sorts of things hit harder than they would a normal person. I'm in a pretty good spot now so I think I could handle it better, but I haven't gone back because the general emotion I still feel from those days is ladder=bad.
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It's a tightrope.
I personally think people take words way too seriously. I like trash talk and bm and I think it's fun. On the other hand, we have a lot of serious issues coming to a head in society (racism, homophobia, etc). People have a legitimate reason to be offended by that stuff, then other people see people being offended and think "I can be offended by whatever I want, too."
If you're a trash-talker, leave racism and homophobia out of it. If you're upset about generic trash talk and use words like "toxic" and "filth" to describe basic bm, probably grow up and take yourself less seriously. I can't stand people who can't have a laugh at their own expense.
Conor's talk about Khabib's family/religion etc definitely crossed the line, but it made it that much more enjoyable to watch Khabib smash him thru the floor. Did that make it ok for Conor to do, from the "business" perspective? Probably not. It's a complex issue and I don't have a great answer.
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Russian Federation102 Posts
On November 12 2021 00:51 Arghmyliver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2021 09:15 confusedzerg wrote:WombaT, you make good point. i love watch UFC. not sure if you are familiar, you mention conor, but every time there is fight, during the pre-fight press conference, the fighters are talking a lot of shit. a LOT of shit. then, when the fight is over, they hug and compliment each other. they didn't mean any of it but sometimes they can be very convincing. to the others, it would be immature to say ufc fans are immature for enjoying this, yes? it's well known that they do this simply to draw viewers in. some fighters are better at it than others. sure there are some fights where the fighters say "i have nothing but respect for my opponent i hope is good fight", and opponent says same thing, and that is okay too. but it is more entertaining when they talk shit. i do not know if you have saw the conor vs khabib fight. but conor was talking lots of shit before fight, even saying thing about khabib religion and wife wearing a towel (burka) during marriage, and khabib culture this is very serious so he take offense. thus in middle of fight conor said to him "its only business" aka i was only saying these things for our own benefit. sure he maybe took it too far and this happen in sc2 sometimes, many westerner probably think it is too far when combatex call someone faggot or so for one example. it is up to the person. for example i do not think combatex would say this to scarlett or whatever. i think the boundary is obvious most time and it seem like they never really crossed this line except when idra said thing about his fans which made him get remove from EG. others like deezer are just immune to this effect but also exclude them from many other thing like joining team. guru is banned from many tournament for being accused of racist sayings. it's tricky and i hate to beat dead horse but current cancel culture doesnt help this either. but that is separate discussion lets ignore i said that. 'It's just words' is just a stupid copout to justify asinine behaviour. Yes there's satisfaction upon beating some angry idiot, I'll give you that. The rest of the time? If I lose, win/draw whatever have I had fun? Have I had a nice, honourable battle of wits with an opponent, have I had a chance to maybe, fuck call me crazy but friend the guy and find a good practice partner or someone to play team games with?
i do think this is silly though. you are treating it more than just words i think. the man is not justified for saying he hope i get cancer, never said this, but i would not be justified if i took offense. why? because it's not a personal insult, its from a stranger mad at a game. maybe you dont think it is funny but dont take offense. that's fine. but i have read reddit thread about people saying they will quit game because of BM. that is silly to me. rather than justify i am trying to say it should be expected especailyl on internet game. Yes, you are immature for enjoying two man-babies screaming toxic filth at each other. Pantomime villainy and clever insults prior to a UFC fight is fine. Racist, homophobic, sexist garbage is not. And while yes, context is important, imagine the following. "I'm not a racist, I only use the n-word around white people." Does that sound like a statement you want to get behind? Different people have different senses of humor, it's true. It is not inappropriate to extrapolate to some degree based on what people find funny. If someone finds racism, homophobia, sexism, targeted harassment to be funny, it may reveal something about their personality. The majority of the community has thankfully decided that these people do not have a place here.
who is talking about "n-word" (lol)? you are using one thing that westerners think is the worst thing to say ever against me. to a westerner there is nothing worse than saying "n-word" even to the extent that we cannot even say it when discussing it. so you are making it much bigger issue than it is, i think only person who said "n-word" was -orb- and he got banned right away? so what are you talking about or are you clutching at straws here?
you are not being fair, and then to top it off you call me immature, and then further bring racism into this as if combat/idra/deezer called people "n-word". then like a true westerner you just barrade me with more and more buzz words to push your "argument": as for target harassment and sexism, first of all everyone in sc2 is the same sex, so i dont see how we can be sexist, can you name an example this happened? secondly target harassment, can you give a time of when this was done? something where simply ignoring (or even blocking) person does not solve this issue?
so your opinion is not one of logic but pure emotion and i dont condone any argument like this i am sorry but i will not reply unless we can use logic and rational.
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On November 12 2021 03:05 confusedzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2021 00:51 Arghmyliver wrote:On November 11 2021 09:15 confusedzerg wrote:WombaT, you make good point. i love watch UFC. not sure if you are familiar, you mention conor, but every time there is fight, during the pre-fight press conference, the fighters are talking a lot of shit. a LOT of shit. then, when the fight is over, they hug and compliment each other. they didn't mean any of it but sometimes they can be very convincing. to the others, it would be immature to say ufc fans are immature for enjoying this, yes? it's well known that they do this simply to draw viewers in. some fighters are better at it than others. sure there are some fights where the fighters say "i have nothing but respect for my opponent i hope is good fight", and opponent says same thing, and that is okay too. but it is more entertaining when they talk shit. i do not know if you have saw the conor vs khabib fight. but conor was talking lots of shit before fight, even saying thing about khabib religion and wife wearing a towel (burka) during marriage, and khabib culture this is very serious so he take offense. thus in middle of fight conor said to him "its only business" aka i was only saying these things for our own benefit. sure he maybe took it too far and this happen in sc2 sometimes, many westerner probably think it is too far when combatex call someone faggot or so for one example. it is up to the person. for example i do not think combatex would say this to scarlett or whatever. i think the boundary is obvious most time and it seem like they never really crossed this line except when idra said thing about his fans which made him get remove from EG. others like deezer are just immune to this effect but also exclude them from many other thing like joining team. guru is banned from many tournament for being accused of racist sayings. it's tricky and i hate to beat dead horse but current cancel culture doesnt help this either. but that is separate discussion lets ignore i said that. 'It's just words' is just a stupid copout to justify asinine behaviour. Yes there's satisfaction upon beating some angry idiot, I'll give you that. The rest of the time? If I lose, win/draw whatever have I had fun? Have I had a nice, honourable battle of wits with an opponent, have I had a chance to maybe, fuck call me crazy but friend the guy and find a good practice partner or someone to play team games with?
i do think this is silly though. you are treating it more than just words i think. the man is not justified for saying he hope i get cancer, never said this, but i would not be justified if i took offense. why? because it's not a personal insult, its from a stranger mad at a game. maybe you dont think it is funny but dont take offense. that's fine. but i have read reddit thread about people saying they will quit game because of BM. that is silly to me. rather than justify i am trying to say it should be expected especailyl on internet game. Yes, you are immature for enjoying two man-babies screaming toxic filth at each other. Pantomime villainy and clever insults prior to a UFC fight is fine. Racist, homophobic, sexist garbage is not. And while yes, context is important, imagine the following. "I'm not a racist, I only use the n-word around white people." Does that sound like a statement you want to get behind? Different people have different senses of humor, it's true. It is not inappropriate to extrapolate to some degree based on what people find funny. If someone finds racism, homophobia, sexism, targeted harassment to be funny, it may reveal something about their personality. The majority of the community has thankfully decided that these people do not have a place here. who is talking about "n-word" (lol)? you are using one thing that westerners think is the worst thing to say ever against me. to a westerner there is nothing worse than saying "n-word" even to the extent that we cannot even say it when discussing it. so you are making it much bigger issue than it is, i think only person who said "n-word" was -orb- and he got banned right away? so what are you talking about or are you clutching at straws here? you are not being fair, and then to top it off you call me immature, and then further bring racism into this as if combat/idra/deezer called people "n-word". then like a true westerner you just barrade me with more and more buzz words to push your "argument": as for target harassment and sexism, first of all everyone in sc2 is the same sex, so i dont see how we can be sexist, can you name an example this happened? secondly target harassment, can you give a time of when this was done? something where simply ignoring (or even blocking) person does not solve this issue? so your opinion is not one of logic but pure emotion and i dont condone any argument like this i am sorry but i will not reply unless we can use logic and rational.
You are acting immature. I don't think you fully comprehend what you are saying in this post, let alone the point I was attempting to convey in mine.
Do you understand that you could be sexist even if you lived on an island of only men?
Do you understand that you can be discriminatory even outside of the presence of those individuals you are marginalizing?
Until you grasp these two things, I agree, you are not equipped to have this conversation.
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Russian Federation102 Posts
yes, and anyone can be racist/sexist/homophobic/islamophobic/transphobic/whatever without necessarily engaging in banter in a video game so i fail to see your point. we are not talking about player who say n-word as you so put.
i think bringing this into the discussion with no real purpose doesnt do anything besides put the burden of the buzzwords on me which is cheap shot. it is emotional appeal.
Do you understand that you could be sexist even if you lived on an island of only men?
Do you understand that you can be discriminatory even outside of the presence of those individuals you are marginalizing?
this has no relevance because if players dont show that they are racist then it is pointless to assume they are racist, we must say we dont know if they are racist or not. we are talking about video game banter, you bringing this other shit in is weird.
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Look dude. Here's the bottom line. Banter is fine and encouraged. Talking about how many other players you've "raped," calling other players "faggots" (or any other kind of slur for that matter), asking how much "butt sex" the other players have is not. Your claims that "everyone in SC2 is the same sex" or "it's fine to call someone a faggot as long as they aren't LGBTQ" are not only patently and demonstrably false, they are hurtful, insensitive and symptomatic of a deep-seeded bigotry which you are trying to excuse under the thin veneer of "banter." It's possible something is being lost in translation here as it would seem that English is not your first language, but everything you've said so far has been an excuse for discriminatory behaviour.
Could there be more banter in SC2?
Sure, maybe, it's at least an argument that can be made. Unfortunately, the examples you chose to include in your OP of the kind of banter you want back in the scene are highly problematic.
Should there be more toxic, hateful speech in SC2?
Absolutely not.
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Russian Federation102 Posts
okay, makes sense. but one question: where did i advocate for hate speech? or where did anyone else mention it beside you?
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United States10354 Posts
Storylines are a great way to generate views and interest. Drama is just one way of doing so. SC2 was massive when Serral won Blizzcon. It was an organic and very hyped storyline. Watching a foreigner win vs the Korean gauntlet is enticing, it pulls viewers because it's never been done before, etc.
CSGO generates a ton of various storylines without the drama (besides of course team signing/trades). It's arguably the best and most popular esports to watch. The recent major is an example: Niko vs Simple, two guys who are incredble players, both looking for a major (especially Simple).
Drama definitely creates storylines and it makes people want to click in. The Deezer/Combat era was funny, it made people want to click on to see the next match or funny shit that was going to happen. But it definitely had run its course. It's cool and generates (in wrestling terms) "cheap heat" for a time, until the cheap heat dies and you need to find an actual storyline to propel interest. If both, or people like them, were to make a return to the scene, it would definitely generate some spark for a time, maybe a week? Maybe a month at most. But then people would get tired of it quickly unless one of them actually made a huge charge and won some big event to set themselves up as a huge villain superstar.
Cheap adolescent heat is good for a short stint, but after that you need more substance to hold interest.
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If it's an event and one or both players want to engage in a little showmanship then great. Done well you'll become a fan favorite.
If it's online and we're strangers, then it's not appropriate. I would love for my daughters to play this game with me when they're a bit older and they most certainly are not the first girls (or children) to touch the game. If this game is for everyone (and I believe it is) then we should think about their experience too - not just through the eyes of a young man.
When you are talking with strangers online you have to be mindful of cultural differences, gender differences, age differences, mental health differences etc etc. If we don't know who our audience is, we should default to a mode of behavior that makes others want to have us around, then everyone wins. If you can't do that because you keep provoking people, don't be shocked when the rest of us who can manage it, want you gone.
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On November 12 2021 05:35 confusedzerg wrote:
okay, makes sense. but one question: where did i advocate for hate speech? or where did anyone else mention it beside you?
This may be a language issue, because you realize I was quoting you in the post correct?
many westerner probably think it is too far when combatex call someone faggot or so for one example. it is up to the person. for example i do not think combatex would say this to scarlett or whatever.
It doesn't matter who the person is, this doesn't have any place in civil society. You suggesting that hate speech is ok as long as it's not in the presence of those it marginalizes is both factually incorrect and in fact encouraging hate speech.
then like a true westerner you just barrade me with more and more buzz words to push your "argument": as for target harassment and sexism, first of all everyone in sc2 is the same sex, so i dont see how we can be sexist, can you name an example this happened?
Your question answers itself.
The examples in your OP of the "banter" you'd like to bring back to SCII include homophobic jokes, rape jokes and IdrA dropping "retarded" multiple times.
This is toxic and hateful speech.
To be honest I think this thread should be closed. I will not be participating anymore.
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I am honestly a bit puzzled why sexism and racism came up here. BM is about hurting with insults, and you can't know your opponent's ethnicity, sexual orientation or even gender, so insults in that ballpark are likely to miss the mark. If used, it would be more to let out frustration, not really to hurt the recipient.
In my experience, BM are mostly in 3 categories:
-Gaming skill (fkn noob) and "no life" as a gamer (takes one to know one).
-Threats of violence (not that serious, how would they find you?)
-Wishes of serious illness and death, including to friends and family members.
To me, the 3rd one is by far the worst. It is actually so awfull I have never heard anyone say something like "die of cancer" out loud, but it is pretty common gamer lingo. But, as that is also pretty common, our skin has grown thick enough to even resist that.
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Because it happens, and if it didn't we probably wouldn't have this thread. Like if ppl raged over losses without throwing that stuff in, I think it would be a non-issue.
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i had to do a double take and make sure this wasn't a thread necro.
yeah i didnt like idra back then but then i realized i was a mindless sheep in the woke mob. i participated in his cancellation and regret it. cancel culture has ruined everything. i find this thread refreshing.
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Northern Ireland26505 Posts
On November 12 2021 07:00 Slydie wrote:
I am honestly a bit puzzled why sexism and racism came up here. BM is about hurting with insults, and you can't know your opponent's ethnicity, sexual orientation or even gender, so insults in that ballpark are likely to miss the mark. If used, it would be more to let out frustration, not really to hurt the recipient.
In my experience, BM are mostly in 3 categories:
-Gaming skill (fkn noob) and "no life" as a gamer (takes one to know one).
-Threats of violence (not that serious, how would they find you?)
-Wishes of serious illness and death, including to friends and family members.
To me, the 3rd one is by far the worst. It is actually so awfull I have never heard anyone say something like "die of cancer" out loud, but it is pretty common gamer lingo. But, as that is also pretty common, our skin has grown thick enough to even resist that.
Sexism and racism in the absence of individuals from those categories is arguably more telling of people’s attitudes towards those groups.
As a gay friend of mine once said to me he was less bothered about people calling him a faggot in games as he was that it was seen as an insult in the first place
People get frustrated, which is understandable. I can handle the odd outburst but within gaming there’s forever been a code that toxic behaviour is fine and people should grow a pair and get over it, rather than the, to me more obvious path of discouraging people from behaving like errant children.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 12 2021 22:04 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2021 07:00 Slydie wrote:
I am honestly a bit puzzled why sexism and racism came up here. BM is about hurting with insults, and you can't know your opponent's ethnicity, sexual orientation or even gender, so insults in that ballpark are likely to miss the mark. If used, it would be more to let out frustration, not really to hurt the recipient.
In my experience, BM are mostly in 3 categories:
-Gaming skill (fkn noob) and "no life" as a gamer (takes one to know one).
-Threats of violence (not that serious, how would they find you?)
-Wishes of serious illness and death, including to friends and family members.
To me, the 3rd one is by far the worst. It is actually so awfull I have never heard anyone say something like "die of cancer" out loud, but it is pretty common gamer lingo. But, as that is also pretty common, our skin has grown thick enough to even resist that. Sexism and racism in the absence of individuals from those categories is arguably more telling of people’s attitudes towards those groups. As a gay friend of mine once said to me he was less bothered about people calling him a faggot in games as he was that it was seen as an insult in the first place People get frustrated, which is understandable. I can handle the odd outburst but within gaming there’s forever been a code that toxic behaviour is fine and people should grow a pair and get over it, rather than the, to me more obvious path of discouraging people from behaving like errant children.
That's why we have the ignore function. It's not yours nor gaming companies responsibility to educate people, eventually this will backfire as people play the games to have fun not to be educated.
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Canada13405 Posts
Maybe some villain-ish types but lets not pretend these people were really honestly terrible. IdrA less so for the most part, he really learned how to reign in the worst of it. But CombatEX and Deezer were really not good at all.
Big difference between angry outbursts and what some of the old villains did. And that's considering context. Remember that 10 years ago what was seen as egregious insult was very different and its shifter (I think for the better) to being less ok in terms of targeting race, gender, sexuality, etc.
There's a difference between being rough around the edges and maybe a little mean, or pompous and being a bad person who acts like trash.
Not everyone can be care bears and rainbows, and maybe some of the edge is missing that makes for drama and story, but I'd rather lose an edge that was racist/homophobic/intentionally antagonizing and harmful than keep it.
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Northern Ireland26505 Posts
On November 12 2021 22:46 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2021 22:04 WombaT wrote:On November 12 2021 07:00 Slydie wrote:
I am honestly a bit puzzled why sexism and racism came up here. BM is about hurting with insults, and you can't know your opponent's ethnicity, sexual orientation or even gender, so insults in that ballpark are likely to miss the mark. If used, it would be more to let out frustration, not really to hurt the recipient.
In my experience, BM are mostly in 3 categories:
-Gaming skill (fkn noob) and "no life" as a gamer (takes one to know one).
-Threats of violence (not that serious, how would they find you?)
-Wishes of serious illness and death, including to friends and family members.
To me, the 3rd one is by far the worst. It is actually so awfull I have never heard anyone say something like "die of cancer" out loud, but it is pretty common gamer lingo. But, as that is also pretty common, our skin has grown thick enough to even resist that. Sexism and racism in the absence of individuals from those categories is arguably more telling of people’s attitudes towards those groups. As a gay friend of mine once said to me he was less bothered about people calling him a faggot in games as he was that it was seen as an insult in the first place People get frustrated, which is understandable. I can handle the odd outburst but within gaming there’s forever been a code that toxic behaviour is fine and people should grow a pair and get over it, rather than the, to me more obvious path of discouraging people from behaving like errant children. That's why we have the ignore function. It's not yours nor gaming companies responsibility to educate people, eventually this will backfire as people play the games to have fun not to be educated.
I don’t want to use an ignore function, I may as well be playing against bots at that stage.
I don’t think people need educated either, they know they’re being pricks and don’t control themselves because there’s no consequence.
Now we’re a bit out of the worst of the pandemic and playing pool is a thing again I’ve been enjoying playing with my buddies, and hey occasionally tables will scope each other out and propose playing each other.
And hey that’s fun, there’s some jokey banter, s’all good. If I started playing with the strangers next door and they started calling me a faggot after every shot well, that’s considerably less fun and you know fuck it me and my mates will go back to playing amongst ourselves.
But you know what that doesn’t happen, because people can control themselves in a social setting.
You said it yourself, people play games to have fun. It’s not particularly fun to engage with angry children all the time.
To, absolutely 100% I tolerate, and indeed quite enjoy a bit of edge, some banter with some wit to it, I feel it makes it more socially engaging.
But for some reason the onus is somehow on me for not enjoying people spamming insults all game, rather than people who can’t control themselves and do the spamming.
It’s less an issue for me in Starcraft, I think largely the community is pretty cool. Solo-queuing in team games, no it’s not fun for me, even if I’m playing OK I’m getting screamed at by barely intelligible humans for a whole game, really quite frequently.
So I don’t play a whole bunch of games i mechanically enjoy, solely because of the community. I’m not remotely offended, I have other stuff I could be doing that’s more enjoyable.
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EPT
