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Mercy13
Profile Joined January 2011
United States718 Posts
October 23 2018 19:29 GMT
#1041
On October 24 2018 03:09 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2018 02:06 Mercy13 wrote:
Here's what some trans-people say about it:

On what it would be like to be forced to use a men’s bathroom in North Carolina:
“My choices are: Go to the women’s room and probably be OK and break the law, or go into a men’s room until someone realizes why I’m there. After they’ve worked so very, very hard to label sexual predators, God only knows what happens when I walk in or when I walk out.

“If you walk in and you’re presenting as female, even if you have passing privilege, you walk into the men’s room and you’ve immediately identified yourself as a lost cisgender woman… or you walk in and you stay and that immediately marks you as transgender.… Last year, we had 22 or 23 trans women murdered. And we’ve got North Carolina legislators… having beat the drum that transgender people are perverts and have no rights. You walk into a bathroom, you’ve announced yourself as transgender and everyone in that bathroom has been told that you’re a child-molesting, subhuman monster. Whatever compunctions they have against violence have been significantly lowered.”

Source

One of the interviewees also talks about how they suffered from frequent UTIs as a result of holding it in so long for fear of using public restrooms. Trans-people have a practical interest in being able to use the public restrooms of their choice, it's not just about affirming their identity.


Forcing the restroom issue isn't going to fix the underlying problem of promoting tolerance. It's only going to exacerbate matters and inflame the majority. Attacking and flaunting social norms will always have a price.


Can you think of a time when social norms where changed without any attacking or flaunting of them?
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 23 2018 20:06 GMT
#1042
On October 24 2018 04:29 Mercy13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2018 03:09 xDaunt wrote:
On October 24 2018 02:06 Mercy13 wrote:
Here's what some trans-people say about it:

On what it would be like to be forced to use a men’s bathroom in North Carolina:
“My choices are: Go to the women’s room and probably be OK and break the law, or go into a men’s room until someone realizes why I’m there. After they’ve worked so very, very hard to label sexual predators, God only knows what happens when I walk in or when I walk out.

“If you walk in and you’re presenting as female, even if you have passing privilege, you walk into the men’s room and you’ve immediately identified yourself as a lost cisgender woman… or you walk in and you stay and that immediately marks you as transgender.… Last year, we had 22 or 23 trans women murdered. And we’ve got North Carolina legislators… having beat the drum that transgender people are perverts and have no rights. You walk into a bathroom, you’ve announced yourself as transgender and everyone in that bathroom has been told that you’re a child-molesting, subhuman monster. Whatever compunctions they have against violence have been significantly lowered.”

Source

One of the interviewees also talks about how they suffered from frequent UTIs as a result of holding it in so long for fear of using public restrooms. Trans-people have a practical interest in being able to use the public restrooms of their choice, it's not just about affirming their identity.


Forcing the restroom issue isn't going to fix the underlying problem of promoting tolerance. It's only going to exacerbate matters and inflame the majority. Attacking and flaunting social norms will always have a price.


Can you think of a time when social norms where changed without any attacking or flaunting of them?

Off the top of my head, no, but I don't think that doing so in this instance is going to be productive for anyone.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
October 23 2018 20:20 GMT
#1043
Looks like Trumps claim that his administration and Congress are working on a new middle class tax cut for just after the elections is a fabrication. In other words hes lying to his supporters about what he will do, in order to induce them to get to the polls. I wonder how his supporters feel about being lied to to their face? Most of the time when someone lies to you to your face and it's an obvious lie, you dont just take it on the chin.
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-23 20:35:52
October 23 2018 20:33 GMT
#1044
On October 24 2018 05:06 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2018 04:29 Mercy13 wrote:
On October 24 2018 03:09 xDaunt wrote:
On October 24 2018 02:06 Mercy13 wrote:
Here's what some trans-people say about it:

On what it would be like to be forced to use a men’s bathroom in North Carolina:
“My choices are: Go to the women’s room and probably be OK and break the law, or go into a men’s room until someone realizes why I’m there. After they’ve worked so very, very hard to label sexual predators, God only knows what happens when I walk in or when I walk out.

“If you walk in and you’re presenting as female, even if you have passing privilege, you walk into the men’s room and you’ve immediately identified yourself as a lost cisgender woman… or you walk in and you stay and that immediately marks you as transgender.… Last year, we had 22 or 23 trans women murdered. And we’ve got North Carolina legislators… having beat the drum that transgender people are perverts and have no rights. You walk into a bathroom, you’ve announced yourself as transgender and everyone in that bathroom has been told that you’re a child-molesting, subhuman monster. Whatever compunctions they have against violence have been significantly lowered.”

Source

One of the interviewees also talks about how they suffered from frequent UTIs as a result of holding it in so long for fear of using public restrooms. Trans-people have a practical interest in being able to use the public restrooms of their choice, it's not just about affirming their identity.


Forcing the restroom issue isn't going to fix the underlying problem of promoting tolerance. It's only going to exacerbate matters and inflame the majority. Attacking and flaunting social norms will always have a price.


Can you think of a time when social norms where changed without any attacking or flaunting of them?

Off the top of my head, no, but I don't think that doing so in this instance is going to be productive for anyone.

You're free to think that. But for as long as you remain uninvested in anything but obstructing them, I'm not sure anyone will care that you think that.

On October 24 2018 05:20 Doodsmack wrote:
Looks like Trumps claim that his administration and Congress are working on a new middle class tax cut for just after the elections is a fabrication. In other words hes lying to his supporters about what he will do, in order to induce them to get to the polls. I wonder how his supporters feel about being lied to to their face? Most of the time when someone lies to you to your face and it's an obvious lie, you dont just take it on the chin.

Isn't Congress not even, like, in the building? Let's ignore for the moment that most of the shit that leaves Trump's mouth is an arrant lie.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 23 2018 21:19 GMT
#1045
GH, what do you think of Gillum?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23238 Posts
October 23 2018 23:10 GMT
#1046
On October 24 2018 06:19 xDaunt wrote:
GH, what do you think of Gillum?


I said it before but basically he jumped the line in the primary by rhetorically embracing more progressive policy than Democratic party wisdom said was viable and finding his voters, but he's already pretty much abandoned the biggest point and ran to the center but most of the Democrats stopped paying attention to what he's actually been saying since he won the primary and took a big polling lead.

It's reminiscent of pre-president Obama vs after he won. That might not make much sense for you if you still think Obama is some wild lefty and not a center-right imperialist.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
October 23 2018 23:27 GMT
#1047
On October 24 2018 08:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2018 06:19 xDaunt wrote:
GH, what do you think of Gillum?


I said it before but basically he jumped the line in the primary by rhetorically embracing more progressive policy than Democratic party wisdom said was viable and finding his voters, but he's already pretty much abandoned the biggest point and ran to the center but most of the Democrats stopped paying attention to what he's actually been saying since he won the primary and took a big polling lead.

It's reminiscent of pre-president Obama vs after he won. That might not make much sense for you if you still think Obama is some wild lefty and not a center-right imperialist.


So you think Gillum is Obama 2: Right of Centre?
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 24 2018 00:01 GMT
#1048
On October 24 2018 08:27 iamthedave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2018 08:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 24 2018 06:19 xDaunt wrote:
GH, what do you think of Gillum?


I said it before but basically he jumped the line in the primary by rhetorically embracing more progressive policy than Democratic party wisdom said was viable and finding his voters, but he's already pretty much abandoned the biggest point and ran to the center but most of the Democrats stopped paying attention to what he's actually been saying since he won the primary and took a big polling lead.

It's reminiscent of pre-president Obama vs after he won. That might not make much sense for you if you still think Obama is some wild lefty and not a center-right imperialist.


So you think Gillum is Obama 2: Right of Centre?

Gillum: Now Running in the FL General Election.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
October 24 2018 00:39 GMT
#1049
On October 24 2018 05:06 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2018 04:29 Mercy13 wrote:
On October 24 2018 03:09 xDaunt wrote:
On October 24 2018 02:06 Mercy13 wrote:
Here's what some trans-people say about it:

On what it would be like to be forced to use a men’s bathroom in North Carolina:
“My choices are: Go to the women’s room and probably be OK and break the law, or go into a men’s room until someone realizes why I’m there. After they’ve worked so very, very hard to label sexual predators, God only knows what happens when I walk in or when I walk out.

“If you walk in and you’re presenting as female, even if you have passing privilege, you walk into the men’s room and you’ve immediately identified yourself as a lost cisgender woman… or you walk in and you stay and that immediately marks you as transgender.… Last year, we had 22 or 23 trans women murdered. And we’ve got North Carolina legislators… having beat the drum that transgender people are perverts and have no rights. You walk into a bathroom, you’ve announced yourself as transgender and everyone in that bathroom has been told that you’re a child-molesting, subhuman monster. Whatever compunctions they have against violence have been significantly lowered.”

Source

One of the interviewees also talks about how they suffered from frequent UTIs as a result of holding it in so long for fear of using public restrooms. Trans-people have a practical interest in being able to use the public restrooms of their choice, it's not just about affirming their identity.


Forcing the restroom issue isn't going to fix the underlying problem of promoting tolerance. It's only going to exacerbate matters and inflame the majority. Attacking and flaunting social norms will always have a price.


Can you think of a time when social norms where changed without any attacking or flaunting of them?

Off the top of my head, no, but I don't think that doing so in this instance is going to be productive for anyone.


I can think of several. Texting instead of calling. Emails instead of snail mail. Open office plans instead of offices/cubicles. Norms around exercising and eating. Changing norms about sexual activity in college. Expected length of stay at any one job, or the norms around lateral moves (zigzag moves, since lateral moves are usually also moves up, at least on the front nine) within one's career.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 24 2018 01:50 GMT
#1050
On October 24 2018 09:39 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2018 05:06 xDaunt wrote:
On October 24 2018 04:29 Mercy13 wrote:
On October 24 2018 03:09 xDaunt wrote:
On October 24 2018 02:06 Mercy13 wrote:
Here's what some trans-people say about it:

On what it would be like to be forced to use a men’s bathroom in North Carolina:
“My choices are: Go to the women’s room and probably be OK and break the law, or go into a men’s room until someone realizes why I’m there. After they’ve worked so very, very hard to label sexual predators, God only knows what happens when I walk in or when I walk out.

“If you walk in and you’re presenting as female, even if you have passing privilege, you walk into the men’s room and you’ve immediately identified yourself as a lost cisgender woman… or you walk in and you stay and that immediately marks you as transgender.… Last year, we had 22 or 23 trans women murdered. And we’ve got North Carolina legislators… having beat the drum that transgender people are perverts and have no rights. You walk into a bathroom, you’ve announced yourself as transgender and everyone in that bathroom has been told that you’re a child-molesting, subhuman monster. Whatever compunctions they have against violence have been significantly lowered.”

Source

One of the interviewees also talks about how they suffered from frequent UTIs as a result of holding it in so long for fear of using public restrooms. Trans-people have a practical interest in being able to use the public restrooms of their choice, it's not just about affirming their identity.


Forcing the restroom issue isn't going to fix the underlying problem of promoting tolerance. It's only going to exacerbate matters and inflame the majority. Attacking and flaunting social norms will always have a price.


Can you think of a time when social norms where changed without any attacking or flaunting of them?

Off the top of my head, no, but I don't think that doing so in this instance is going to be productive for anyone.


I can think of several. Texting instead of calling. Emails instead of snail mail. Open office plans instead of offices/cubicles. Norms around exercising and eating. Changing norms about sexual activity in college. Expected length of stay at any one job, or the norms around lateral moves (zigzag moves, since lateral moves are usually also moves up, at least on the front nine) within one's career.

I need to go commit seppuku.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23238 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-24 05:36:57
October 24 2018 02:46 GMT
#1051
On October 24 2018 08:27 iamthedave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2018 08:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 24 2018 06:19 xDaunt wrote:
GH, what do you think of Gillum?


I said it before but basically he jumped the line in the primary by rhetorically embracing more progressive policy than Democratic party wisdom said was viable and finding his voters, but he's already pretty much abandoned the biggest point and ran to the center but most of the Democrats stopped paying attention to what he's actually been saying since he won the primary and took a big polling lead.

It's reminiscent of pre-president Obama vs after he won. That might not make much sense for you if you still think Obama is some wild lefty and not a center-right imperialist.


So you think Gillum is Obama 2: Right of Centre?


More or less, it's not like they really even try to hide the plot.

Obama says he'd be seen as moderate Republican in 1980s

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
October 24 2018 09:10 GMT
#1052
On October 24 2018 11:46 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2018 08:27 iamthedave wrote:
On October 24 2018 08:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 24 2018 06:19 xDaunt wrote:
GH, what do you think of Gillum?


I said it before but basically he jumped the line in the primary by rhetorically embracing more progressive policy than Democratic party wisdom said was viable and finding his voters, but he's already pretty much abandoned the biggest point and ran to the center but most of the Democrats stopped paying attention to what he's actually been saying since he won the primary and took a big polling lead.

It's reminiscent of pre-president Obama vs after he won. That might not make much sense for you if you still think Obama is some wild lefty and not a center-right imperialist.


So you think Gillum is Obama 2: Right of Centre?


More or less, it's not like they really even try to hide the plot.

Obama says he'd be seen as moderate Republican in 1980s


And Chuck Schumer famously said this about the 2016 election:

“For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
October 24 2018 09:58 GMT
#1053
On October 24 2018 18:10 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2018 11:46 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 24 2018 08:27 iamthedave wrote:
On October 24 2018 08:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 24 2018 06:19 xDaunt wrote:
GH, what do you think of Gillum?


I said it before but basically he jumped the line in the primary by rhetorically embracing more progressive policy than Democratic party wisdom said was viable and finding his voters, but he's already pretty much abandoned the biggest point and ran to the center but most of the Democrats stopped paying attention to what he's actually been saying since he won the primary and took a big polling lead.

It's reminiscent of pre-president Obama vs after he won. That might not make much sense for you if you still think Obama is some wild lefty and not a center-right imperialist.


So you think Gillum is Obama 2: Right of Centre?


More or less, it's not like they really even try to hide the plot.

Obama says he'd be seen as moderate Republican in 1980s


And Chuck Schumer famously said this about the 2016 election:

“For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”


Yeah. That didn't work too well in the end, did it Chuck? I think he's also missed something very important; you're more likely to lose liberals for good, where any moderates you pick up are going to go back to the Republican Party if they find a better candidate. See GH as case in point. It'd take something radical for him to consider voting Democrat at this point.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23238 Posts
October 24 2018 10:46 GMT
#1054
Abrams is far from radical (Running for Governor in GA) but the story going on there may be a bit of a final straw for some folks.

What I like about Abrams is she made her campaign about the people of her state instead of the donors and consultants. As a result she kicked their butts and won a primary the Democratic party wanted her to lose. For those who aren't aware she has focused her campaign on expanding the electorate. Appealing to people already inclined to support her and turning them into voters rather than the Democrats preferred strategy of trying to sway Republicans.

Brian Kemp, Georgia Secretary of State and the Republican nominee for Georgia governor, expressed at a ticketed campaign event that his Democratic opponent Stacey Abrams’ voter turnout operation “continues to concern us, especially if everybody uses and exercises their right to vote,” according to audio obtained by Rolling Stone.

Kemp’s recent decision to suspend more than 53,000 voter applications, 70 percent of which were filed by black residents, for violating the state’s “exact match” verification standard has drawn attention to his penchant for restrictive voter laws and purging of voter rolls. American Public Media reported last week that Kemp purged an estimated 107,000 voters last year simply because they didn’t vote in the prior election. He is also being sued for leaving more than 6 million Georgia voting records open to hacking.

One other reason that Kemp’s “right to vote” line is potentially alarming is that he is facing another lawsuit after reports that an abnormal number of absentee ballots — 595, more than a third of the state’s total and 300 of which reportedly belong to black and Asian American voters — have been rejected in the state’s most racially diverse county, Gwinnett. The Georgia Muslim Voter Project and Asian-American Advancing Justice-Atlanta filed suit last Monday to request that three days be provided after the election for rejected voters to resolve the matter so that their ballots count.

All of these reports have led to charges that Kemp is suppressing votes


www.rollingstone.com
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
October 24 2018 13:14 GMT
#1055
That sounds utterly disgusting if true. But the US's democracy has been on very faulty ground for a while now so that's not new. In theory at least, is there a punishment for voter suppression if he's found guilty?

I also wonder how many Democratic governors might have tried the same tactics on Republican consituents.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 24 2018 17:16 GMT
#1056
GA is ground zero for voter suppression. They are not even trying to hide it. They are going to be really bummed out if they succeed, IMO. Once a large group of voters get it in their head that the system is truly rigged, they find alternative routes for changing the system.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23238 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-24 23:12:57
October 24 2018 22:57 GMT
#1057
On October 24 2018 22:14 iamthedave wrote:
That sounds utterly disgusting if true. But the US's democracy has been on very faulty ground for a while now so that's not new. In theory at least, is there a punishment for voter suppression if he's found guilty?

I also wonder how many Democratic governors might have tried the same tactics on Republican consituents.


New York is pretty notorious, which is why I usually emphasize voter suppression has long been a bipartisan affair.

Indeed, New York’s voting procedures have become a talking point for Republican-led states in defending their own regression on voting rights. In discussing their limitations on voting rights, North Carolina and Ohio have pointed to the New York rules. If other states can have restrictive policies, the argument goes, why can’t they? As John Kasich, the governor of Ohio, said when asked about his state’s decision to cut early voting from six weeks to four, “I do not know why you are picking on Ohio. Why don’t you go pick on New York?”


www.newyorker.com

It's situations like that which expose the Democrats irreconcilably for me. They sincerely made a huge stink about Kasich cutting down early voting knowing full well New York doesn't even have early voting. Surely if going from 6 down to 4 weeks is voter suppression (it is), then having 0 is definitively worse voter suppression.

New York also literally broke the law suppressing votes in 2016

The New York City Board of Elections illegally purged about 200,000 voters off the city’s rolls in 2014 and 2015, an issue discovered during the 2016 elections. Suspicion around that purge has loomed over every election since, even after the board of elections agreed to clean up its act and institute reforms. And every time there are problems at the polls, this spurs concern and frustration that the city’s voting systems are still not up to par.

The majority of the purged names came from Brooklyn, and was first reported when local public radio station WNYC, which found the borough was mysteriously missing 63,558 Democratic voters — about 7 percent of its overall share of Democrats. No other borough had such a significant drop.

After an investigation, the attorney general’s office detailed separate purges in a complaint against the City Board of Elections; first, the board manually identified and purged the records of over 100,000 voters who had failed to vote or update their forms since 2008, which is illegal under state and federal law.

Second, the board looked addresses in the National Change of Address database, and removed another 100,000 voters from the rolls it suspected to have moved outside of the city. But they did this after giving these voters just 30 days notice, when they were required by state and federal law to keep voters on the rolls for at least two more federal elections after notifying them.


www.vox.com

Though that was aimed at other Democrats by Democrats rather than Republicans.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 25 2018 15:06 GMT
#1058
California made major news this month, reclaiming a valuable economic marker and surpassing Britain as the fifth largest economy in the world. Its growth after the recession has accelerated under President Trump and even turned a modest surplus.

However, the Golden State remains one of the most unequal in the nation. It has both billions of dollars in Silicon Valley and rampant homelessness. Its efforts to eliminate poverty instead accentuates it, and its tax system inadvertently aids those who are already wealthy. With the middle class leaving in droves, California society represents a modern day feudal system of robber barons and the poor. It is an unsustainable mixture.

Gross domestic product in California is now above $2.7 trillion, which represents just under 14 percent of the entire United States economy. The topline numbers are a bit misleading, as the state represents a similar 12 percent of the national population. California had the fifth largest economy in the world before the recession, falling seven spots by 2012, while growing at an anemic 0.1 percent. The state has been fortunate to be the center of the booming technology and internet sectors. Moreover, part of the growth was due to a rapidly expanding real estate sector, which heavily assists wealthy residents. With the mega rich and upper class driving its economy, California is unique in its ability to leave the rest of the population behind.

After factoring for costs of living, California is the poorest state in the union. An average of 14 percent of Americans live below the poverty line by census measures. Compare that with the 19 percent of Californians who live below the poverty line and the situation is clear. The census measures factor in housing costs and wellbeing with programs like food stamps and housing assistance. Altogether, the state government has made life for poor and middle class Californians nearly unbearable.

How? California renters pay an average of $1,440 per month, much higher than the national average of $1,010 per month. In 2015, more than 40 percent of Californians spent over 30 percent of their income on housing. Today, 29 percent of them spend over half their earnings on housing. Median home values, at $529,000, are more than double the national median of $239,800. Residents who can afford rent or a mortgage are on the hook for electricity rates burdened by green initiatives and regulation that grew 500 percent faster than the national average from 2011 to 2017.

“Not In My Backyard” development and construction restrictions mean that California cities are much more expensive for the poor, with Los Angeles having the highest proportion of income going towards rent in the nation. The state and its cities use environmental and zoning laws to restrict housing, which often disallows large scale development of apartments. The result? Less access for middle class residents.

From 2011 to 2016, California increased spending on administration at more than double that of teacher pay. Its public employee system disincentivizes government thrift and saddles taxpayers with debt that outstrips the national average. A private sector employee would have to save $2.6 million to receive the same retirement as a California Highway Patrol officer. In addition to its burdensome state income tax, California is home to the highest sales tax in the nation and property tax rates that disproportionately punish the poor.

Traditional left wing prescriptions simply have not worked in the state, which an opinion column in the Los Angeles Times dubbed the “poverty capital” of the country. Housing vouchers increase the cost of living. The number of uninsured in California fell by more than half after the state expanded Medicaid, yet poverty remains near historic highs. California spends the third most per capita on welfare programs, yet its economy fails the poor and middle class.

Despite having just 12 percent of the national population, the state represents nearly a third of the population on welfare. Federal taxpayers shell out more than half of the $6.7 billion in the California Work Opportunities and Responsibility to Kids welfare program. In Texas, 6 percent of families under the poverty line receive welfare. In California, the figure is 66 percent. Can you guess where the poverty rate is lower? Not California.

The combination of government overreach and ineffective programs creates a brutal dichotomy of very rich and very poor. California is the fourth most unequal state in the union with astonishing many homeless who face diseases like typhus and hepatitis. The number of people living on the streets in California increased by nearly 14 percent from 2016 to 2017 to more than 130,000. Mark Zuckerberg is worth $70 billion, while San Franciscans have an app that helps them track human feces on the sidewalk.

In many ways, California has long been an example for the rest of the nation. But the middle class conservatism that propelled national figures like Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan is gone. It has been replaced with virtue signaling and policies by the wealthy that hurt struggling families. Both sides of the coin, from technology executives to families unable to pay rent, vote for Democrats that only make the problem worse.

The robber barons and artificially high real estate values in California brought its economy back to the fifth largest in the world. However, for the average person, Sacramento represents systemic political and economic failure.


Source.

So questions for the progressives and democrats:

1) Do you like where California is economically right now?

2) To what extent is the massive inequality in California a function of California's welfare policies? Stated another way, are you disappointed in the negligible effects that California's welfare policies have had on poverty and inequality? Is there something that California should do differently?

3) Why in the world are Democrats so tolerant of rampant homelessness and human feces in the streets?
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-25 16:28:25
October 25 2018 16:25 GMT
#1059
Do you think California is some kind of socialist wet-dream or something? Yeah it votes blue, but I don't get your questions. Do you think the people buying the property in San Francisco/LA/etc. are there to make money or to set up communism?

In many senses, California is our most successful capitalist economy. In particular, it's very successful at commoditizing something we might call "social activism" or what past generations might have called hippie culture
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 25 2018 16:52 GMT
#1060
I think CA still has the most dysfunctional legislature in the country. I know NY and CA were neck and neck for most of the 1990s but then NY reformed its system.

I mean, how many times did the Supreme Court order CA to fix its garbage prison system?
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