On January 22 2019 21:40 Taelshin wrote: The MSM clearly took a 2 hour video, clipped it down to what they liked, and dove in. These kids did nothing wrong, Id also go as far to say this is a gigantic nothing burger on its face but for the fact that the MSM opt'd to blast these kids heavily. A bunch of blue checks on twitter are not retracting their statements. This entire thing was massive click bait at BEST by the MSM more likely they wanted to draw attention away from the march for life and smear some people(kids) wearing trump hats. The fact that these kids are getting actual death threats is totally insane. I hope the kids sue the shit out of CNN and anyone else they may have a case against and win.
they absolutely did something wrong. if you want to argue they were justified, i’d like to see you make your case.
and to reiterate lest this go the same way, of course any death threats after the fact are unjustified.
On January 22 2019 21:07 Nebuchad wrote: These guys must be really unlucky. Here they were trying to be nice to people all day, but they just happen to keep encountering bad people who goad them into acting like dicks, and every time it's caught on tape... Just an unfortunate series of events.
huh no? They are unrelated incidents. The first one was unquestionably a media setup, with news outlets backtracking and all these celebrities and journalists rushing to delete their tweets.
Wathever happened with the other lady is tbd, but unrelated to the first incident. Still doesn't warrant targeting a group of 16yo.
how is it a media set up? i thought by targeting you meant the harassment after the fact as a result of the news. but in no way were these children targeted at the lincoln memorial, by media or other people. and i mean, they’re the same kids at the same place at the same time. it being unrelated is unlikely, not that i want to get distracted from this larger point of total bullshit.
The harrasement after the fact is a direct result of video editing and bias reporting to show the kids as "agressors". This is clearly not what happened. They were standing next to the lincoln memorial, when the black israelits started harrasing them with insults (white crackers, go back to Europe, gay slurs) and then the native american guy walks up to the kid banging the drum on his face while he smiles awkwardly (OHHH THE SMIRK OF WHITE OF SUPREMACY); he had a clear path to the lincoln memorial that did not involve going towards the kids. Take 2 seconds to watch any of the multiple videos online with the full story.
i see you’ve conveniently left out the part where the school of boys literally surrounds the black israelites and start harrassing them with similar racist epithets. and the black israelites were there first, the school kids absolutely sought them out, not the other way around. they were by no means whatsoever targeted. i’ve watched hours of this crap, because the black israelites tape their own protests for exactly this reason. the entire ordeal(plus another hour of senseless religious shouting) is out there for anyone to see. so do continue to challenge. the photo op the media plastered all over isn’t even remotely the worst they could have chosen. the imagery of a bunch of maga hat teens encircling five black jewish men would be much more provocative.
your comment about nathan phillips is entirely off base, so far so that i have to question whether you’ve watched any of it yourself, or your crtitical thinking skills. he had deliberately stood between the black men and white kids attempting to diffuse the situation, so having a path to the memorial (for what?) is clearly irrelevant.
it’s clear to anyone that did actually watch it that a bunch of assholes got caught being assholes, both your racist schoolboys and the religious zealots. except with our god given right to freedom of speech, only one of them was really provoked, and i’m sure we’d disagree on who here.
and i’m not the one here typically defensive of freedom of speech. in fact in few instances i’ve argued against it, coincidentally this is one of them. if i had it my way the israelites wouldn’t be allowed to do this. failing that, i expect if we are willing to bend over backwards to allow for nazis and steve kings to spew their bullshit, so too should there be a consistent defense of these stupid assholes to sit there and shout their angry religious crap without being harassed. or feel free to come to the dark side with me and let’s decide freedom of speech does not apply to being a dick in public. but to continue to insist the teens were victims before the news article is dog shit. i’ll happily agree with you on them being victims as a result of the news story insofar as any news story can incite death threats. that isn’t new.
It's weird how the media is simultaneously so evil and organized that it plots this large scale conspiracy against a group of random kids to make them look bad, and so incompetent and disorganized that it takes you twenty minutes on a rightwing media site to see through their cunning plan.
(It's almost like Umberto Eco is right, is what I'm getting at)
the media is simultaneously so evil and organized that it plots this large scale conspiracy against a group of random kids
No one is claiming that there was an organised conspiracy. What did happen is the liberal press saw an image of a white boy in a MAGA hat smirking at an elderly native American man and let their preconceptions fill in the context. In reality it's a total non-event; boy smirks for like 3 seconds at man banging a drum while his friends awkwardly chant along, clearly confused and amused about what is going on. But journalists and a twitter mob blew it up into a national scandal. Their ideas of oppressor/oppressed are so ingrained that an awkward smile became, for them, the symbol of white privilege and racism in America. This image being circulated by said liberals on social media proves this point
No conspiracy needed. These journalists saw what they want/expect to see, the power of pre-existing bias demonstrated yet again.
1) Your account of what happened is not consistent with video of what happened. 2) Read the conversation? Gotunk is literally arguing the thing that you say no one is arguing?
1) I mean...it absolutely is. What aggression or abuse did these kids subject Phillips to? He walks up to a chanting crowd banging a drum and they chant along with it for a bit. Like I said, complete non-event. Nothing happened. But a still image of one of them smiling sends half the population into spasms of self-righteous fury because of what they think it shows.
On January 23 2019 00:06 White__Hart wrote: 1) I mean...it absolutely is. What aggression or abuse did these kids subject Phillips to? He walks up to a chanting crowd banging a drum and they chant along with it for a bit. Like I said, complete non-event. Nothing happened. But a still image of one of them smiling sends half the population into spasms of self-righteous fury because of what they think it shows. .
What aggression are the kids in the first picture subjecting that black man to? They're just standing there.
The visual language is near-identical, regrettably, amplified by him actually being a vietnam war vet and the MAGA hat becoming increasingly synonymous with racist fucknuttery due to other far less ambiguous incidents.
It sounds like a fairly minor thing all in all, but that doesn't mean it isn't a symbol for larger trends in American society at this time. Such is the power of images, really. And to a lot of people, this obviously resonates.
the media is simultaneously so evil and organized that it plots this large scale conspiracy against a group of random kids
No one is claiming that there was an organised conspiracy. What did happen is the liberal press saw an image of a white boy in a MAGA hat smirking at an elderly native American man and let their preconceptions fill in the context. In reality it's a total non-event; boy smirks for like 3 seconds at man banging a drum while his friends awkwardly chant along, clearly confused and amused about what is going on. But journalists and a twitter mob blew it up into a national scandal. Their ideas of oppressor/oppressed are so ingrained that an awkward smile became, for them, the symbol of white privilege and racism in America. This image being circulated by said liberals on social media proves this point+ Show Spoiler +
No conspiracy needed. These journalists saw what they want/expect to see, the power of pre-existing bias demonstrated yet again.
I agree with this. No conspiracy needed. The story writes itself with pre-existing bias against MAGA-hat kids (predisposed to think they're racists and would do what racists do) and for native-american activists (pre-disposed to think he's a victim of confrontation and not an instigator).
A little more skepticism is warranted when the story is just a *little* too perfect. Like when Phillips says he's a "Vietnam times veteran" and "Marine corps times" maybe don't just parrot his Marine career in the Vietnam war. It takes like five minutes to show he was too young to have been in that theater.
This does damage to the whole twitter mob phenomenon. Maybe next time more people will wait two days before pillorying the kids. The billion-dollar Disney film producer throwing the kids in a wood chipper is just a tiny bit over the top.+ Show Spoiler +
In the next couple years, maybe the tech is much easier to overlay some believable audio for the viral clip to make it seem like somebody just off camera is yelling racial slurs to exacerbate the response. Then it does really matter to initially disbelieve all the junk and not go off reporting a Vietnam War veteran was harrassed by MAGA hat-wearing kids.
I Failed the Covington Catholic Test Next time there’s a viral story, I’ll wait for more facts to emerge.
Like many people who spend too much time on Twitter, I watched with indignation Saturday morning as stories began appearing about a confrontation near the Lincoln Memorial between students from Covington Catholic High School and American Indians from the Indigenous Peoples March. The story felt personal to me; I live a few miles from the high school, and my son attends a nearby all-boys Catholic high school. I texted him right away, ready with a lesson on what the students had done wrong.
“They were menacing a man much older than them,” I told him, “and chanting ‘Build the wall!’ And this smirking kid blocked his path and wouldn’t let him leave.” The short video, the subject of at least two-thirds of my Twitter feed on Saturday, made me cringe, and the smirking kid in particular got to me: His smugness, radiating from under that red maga hat, was everything I wanted my teenagers not to be.
“Where were they chanting about building the wall?” my son asked. His friends had begun weighing in, and their take was decidedly more sympathetic than mine. He wasn’t sure what to think, as he was hearing starkly different accounts from people he trusted. I doubled down, quoting from the profile of Nathan Phillips that The Washington Post had quickly published online, in which he said he’d been trying to defuse a tense situation. I was all-in on the outrage. How could the students parade around in those hats, harassing a man old enough to be their grandfather—a Vietnam veteran, no less?
the media is simultaneously so evil and organized that it plots this large scale conspiracy against a group of random kids
No one is claiming that there was an organised conspiracy. What did happen is the liberal press saw an image of a white boy in a MAGA hat smirking at an elderly native American man and let their preconceptions fill in the context. In reality it's a total non-event; boy smirks for like 3 seconds at man banging a drum while his friends awkwardly chant along, clearly confused and amused about what is going on. But journalists and a twitter mob blew it up into a national scandal. Their ideas of oppressor/oppressed are so ingrained that an awkward smile became, for them, the symbol of white privilege and racism in America. This image being circulated by said liberals on social media proves this point+ Show Spoiler +
No conspiracy needed. These journalists saw what they want/expect to see, the power of pre-existing bias demonstrated yet again.
I agree with this. No conspiracy needed. The story writes itself with pre-existing bias against MAGA-hat kids (predisposed to think they're racists and would do what racists do) and for native-american activists (pre-disposed to think he's a victim of confrontation and not an instigator).
But... that is what happened? Lol?
The story is about whether some other dudes were also being douches at the same time and that could have provoked them, which is a defense that is difficult to maintain when you see them also being douches earlier in the day in an unrelated situation to different people. The story isn't about them being angels subjected to a biased reality. They clearly did what they did.
to preface, i mostly agree with Danglars and the quoted post as well. i will note they seem to be hung up specifically on the notion that Sandmann(the white kid) was confronting Phillips( the native american man,) which was not the case. though i’d also add that to my knowledge, Phillips also was not an instigator, as i had been lead to believe from Danglars’s post. however i also hadn’t read this take on any news outlet, though i’m not a twitter user. so i’m not sure to which general outrage they are referring.
Remember what I said a couple weeks ago about white men being the target of cultural hate and ridicule due to leftist intellectual ideology? File this Covington nonsense under that.
^ everything Danglars posted. Brian I don't understand how you can come in swinging saying
they absolutely did something wrong
without obviously looking at ANYTHING that has come out after the initial report, yet those of us who have, are required to provide you with evidence of an insanely baseless claim and some quick snaps of a video that you obviously took at face value. It's actually so pathetic.
without obviously looking at ANYTHING that has come out after the initial report, yet those of us who have have to provide you with evidence of an insanely baseless claim and some quick snaps of a video that you obviously took at face value. It's actually so pathetic.
i don’t know what to tell you if you haven’t watched the full video, i don’t know how you can say any of this with any seriousness. they completely surrounded five black men and hurled insults. any potential justification of provocation aside, that’s wrong.
the media is simultaneously so evil and organized that it plots this large scale conspiracy against a group of random kids
No one is claiming that there was an organised conspiracy. What did happen is the liberal press saw an image of a white boy in a MAGA hat smirking at an elderly native American man and let their preconceptions fill in the context. In reality it's a total non-event; boy smirks for like 3 seconds at man banging a drum while his friends awkwardly chant along, clearly confused and amused about what is going on. But journalists and a twitter mob blew it up into a national scandal. Their ideas of oppressor/oppressed are so ingrained that an awkward smile became, for them, the symbol of white privilege and racism in America. This image being circulated by said liberals on social media proves this point+ Show Spoiler +
No conspiracy needed. These journalists saw what they want/expect to see, the power of pre-existing bias demonstrated yet again.
I agree with this. No conspiracy needed. The story writes itself with pre-existing bias against MAGA-hat kids (predisposed to think they're racists and would do what racists do) and for native-american activists (pre-disposed to think he's a victim of confrontation and not an instigator).
But... that is what happened? Lol?
The story is about whether some other dudes were also being douches at the same time and that could have provoked them, which is a defense that is difficult to maintain when you see them also being douches earlier in the day in an unrelated situation to different people. The story isn't about them being angels subjected to a biased reality. They clearly did what they did.
How do you honestly tell me what "the story is about" when two prior posters obviously posted parts of what the "story is about" that you choose to neglect? I do actually question your credentials about declaring what the story is about, believe it or not.
On January 23 2019 01:32 brian wrote: to preface, i mostly agree with Danglars and the quoted post as well. i will note they seem to be hung up specifically on the notion that Sandmann(the white kid) was confronting Phillips( the native american man,) which was not the case. though i’d also add that to my knowledge, Phillips also was not an instigator, as i had been lead to believe from Danglars’s post. however i also hadn’t read this take on any news outlet, though i’m not a twitter user. so i’m not sure to which general outrage they are referring.
Polite people can disagree about his instigation. I saw him insert himself into that group banging his drum, totally unsolicited, and personally come within inches of a white teenager. That clears the bar for me.
The clear point of agreement is that the catholic high schooler did not instigate the event, as was claimed and now prompting deleted tweets and apologies from many journalists in the wake of the fuller video and a little time removed from the event.
I have watched the full video pal, are you sure you did?
I think your just trolling at this point, if you actually watched more then the clip provided by the MSM you'd know that this was nothing, I cant believe you think this treatment of 16 year olds is acceptable good god man.
@Danglars, yeah i can get behind that. i meant instigator more broadly for the ‘confrontation’ as a whole. but on that i’m with you for sure, unacceptable. which leads me to, i think, a better understanding of why we’re harping on Phillips. To see that picture and not think Phillips is being a dick would be absurd. I hadn’t gotten that impression earlier, but it does make plenty sense.
On January 23 2019 01:43 Taelshin wrote: I have watched the full video pal, are you sure you did?
I think your just trolling at this point, if you actually watched more then the clip provided by the MSM you'd know that this was nothing, I cant believe you think this treatment of 16 year olds is acceptable good god man.
i’m not your pal, buddy. and i guess right back at you. i don’t even know to which video you’re referring, because i’ve *only* watched the full video and read articles. like i said earlier, feel free to make your case. if i were you i’d start with either denying what i said happened, or explaining why it’s not ‘wrong.’ you’ve mentioned you brought facts and examples but i’ve seen none. i, on the other hand, have. confront them or don’t. if you’re going to wave your hands and insult me, that’s fine. don’t pretend you’re making an argument. here’s the full video, in case you’ve “forgotten” some of it.
the media is simultaneously so evil and organized that it plots this large scale conspiracy against a group of random kids
No one is claiming that there was an organised conspiracy. What did happen is the liberal press saw an image of a white boy in a MAGA hat smirking at an elderly native American man and let their preconceptions fill in the context. In reality it's a total non-event; boy smirks for like 3 seconds at man banging a drum while his friends awkwardly chant along, clearly confused and amused about what is going on. But journalists and a twitter mob blew it up into a national scandal. Their ideas of oppressor/oppressed are so ingrained that an awkward smile became, for them, the symbol of white privilege and racism in America. This image being circulated by said liberals on social media proves this point+ Show Spoiler +
No conspiracy needed. These journalists saw what they want/expect to see, the power of pre-existing bias demonstrated yet again.
I agree with this. No conspiracy needed. The story writes itself with pre-existing bias against MAGA-hat kids (predisposed to think they're racists and would do what racists do) and for native-american activists (pre-disposed to think he's a victim of confrontation and not an instigator).
But... that is what happened? Lol?
The story is about whether some other dudes were also being douches at the same time and that could have provoked them, which is a defense that is difficult to maintain when you see them also being douches earlier in the day in an unrelated situation to different people. The story isn't about them being angels subjected to a biased reality. They clearly did what they did.
How do you honestly tell me what "the story is about" when two prior posters obviously posted parts of what the "story is about" that you choose to neglect? I do actually question your credentials about declaring what the story is about, believe it or not.
...There is one version where the students decided to go for no reason be dicks to a native american dude and go after him, being massive assholes. That version isn't true. There is another version where the students decided to go be dicks to a few black israelites, because one of the groups provoked the other, whichever it is, and then the Native American dude went in the middle of this situation and they were dicks to him.
There is no version where they aren't being dicks. You don't need my credentials to see that, there is actual video.
But they weren't dicks to Phillips. They just chanted along to his drum for a bit. They were already chanting and being generally rowdy (like teenage boys) before he ever went near them. If you find a group of young men chanting and shouting intimidating, here's some free advice to the man, don't walk up to a group of young men chanting and shouting.
On January 23 2019 00:06 White__Hart wrote: 1) I mean...it absolutely is. What aggression or abuse did these kids subject Phillips to? He walks up to a chanting crowd banging a drum and they chant along with it for a bit. Like I said, complete non-event. Nothing happened. But a still image of one of them smiling sends half the population into spasms of self-righteous fury because of what they think it shows. .
It sounds like a fairly minor thing all in all, but that doesn't mean it isn't a symbol for larger trends in American society at this time. Such is the power of images, really. And to a lot of people, this obviously resonates.
It didn't resonate with people it triggered them. Pardon the phrase but it's appropriate. A young boy was the subject of a national media pile on for doing nothing wrong, because, frankly, certain people are full of resentment and fear of white men.
This whole incident genuinely is all about Trump in the end and the near psychotic break that his presidency has sent the left into. Stuff like this the self satisfied smiles of white men in red hats, is burned into liberals psyches and the kid is just the latest target of their bitter rage.
the media is simultaneously so evil and organized that it plots this large scale conspiracy against a group of random kids
No one is claiming that there was an organised conspiracy. What did happen is the liberal press saw an image of a white boy in a MAGA hat smirking at an elderly native American man and let their preconceptions fill in the context. In reality it's a total non-event; boy smirks for like 3 seconds at man banging a drum while his friends awkwardly chant along, clearly confused and amused about what is going on. But journalists and a twitter mob blew it up into a national scandal. Their ideas of oppressor/oppressed are so ingrained that an awkward smile became, for them, the symbol of white privilege and racism in America. This image being circulated by said liberals on social media proves this point+ Show Spoiler +
No conspiracy needed. These journalists saw what they want/expect to see, the power of pre-existing bias demonstrated yet again.
I agree with this. No conspiracy needed. The story writes itself with pre-existing bias against MAGA-hat kids (predisposed to think they're racists and would do what racists do) and for native-american activists (pre-disposed to think he's a victim of confrontation and not an instigator).
But... that is what happened? Lol?
The story is about whether some other dudes were also being douches at the same time and that could have provoked them, which is a defense that is difficult to maintain when you see them also being douches earlier in the day in an unrelated situation to different people. The story isn't about them being angels subjected to a biased reality. They clearly did what they did.
How do you honestly tell me what "the story is about" when two prior posters obviously posted parts of what the "story is about" that you choose to neglect? I do actually question your credentials about declaring what the story is about, believe it or not.
...There is one version where the students decided to go for no reason be dicks to a native american dude and go after him, being massive assholes. That version isn't true. There is another version where the students decided to go be dicks to a few black israelites, because one of the groups provoked the other, whichever it is, and then the Native American dude went in the middle of this situation and they were dicks to him.
There is no version where they aren't being dicks. You don't need my credentials to see that, there is actual video.
You think the entire universe agrees with your bar on what "they" and "being dicks" means? Is it one person in the group (like does one anarchist in a protest make true "they were violent")?
How much toleration of repeated abuse do you afford? For all I know, you're a Tibetan monk, and any response at all is being a dick.
Far from engaging in racially motivated harassment, the group of mostly white, MAGA-hat-wearing male teenagers remained relatively calm and restrained despite being subjected to incessant racist, homophobic, and bigoted verbal abuse by members of the bizarre religious sect Black Hebrew Israelites, who were lurking nearby. The BHI has existed since the late 19th century, and is best describes as a black nationalist cult movement; its members believe they are descendants of the ancient Israelites, and often express condemnation of white people, Christians, and gays. DC-area Black Hebrews are known to spout particularly vile bigotry.
Phillips put himself between the teens and the black nationalists, chanting and drumming as he marched straight into the middle of the group of young people. What followed was several minutes of confusion: The teens couldn't quite decide whether Phillips was on their side or not, but tentatively joined in his chanting. It's not at all clear this was intended as an act of mockery rather than solidarity.
One student did not get out of Phillips way as he marched, and gave the man a hard stare and a smile that many have described as creepy. This moment received the most media coverage: The teen has been called the product of a "hate factory" and likened to a school shooter, segregation-era racist, and member of the Ku Klux Klan. I have no idea what he was thinking, but portraying this as an example of obvious, racially-motivated hate is a stretch. Maybe he simply had no idea why this man was drumming in his face, and couldn't quite figure out the best response? It bears repeating that Phillips approached him, not the other way around.
And that's all there is to it. Phillips walked away after several minutes, the Black Hebrew Israelites continued to insult the crowd, and nothing else happened.
You can judge for yourself. Here is video footage of the full incident, from the perspective of the black nationalists. Phillips enters the picture around the 1:12 mark, but if you skip to that part, you miss an hour of the Black Hebrew Israelites hurling obscenities at the students. They call them crackers, faggots, and pedophiles. At the 1:20 mark (which comes after the Phillips incident) they call one of the few black students the n-word and tell him that his friends are going to murder him and steal his organs. At the 1:25 mark, they complain that "you give faggots rights," which prompted booing from the students. Throughout the video they threaten the kids with violence, and attempt to goad them into attacking first. The students resisted these taunts admirably: They laughed at the hecklers, and they perform a few of their school's sports cheers.
It was at this moment that Phillips, who had attended a nearby peace protest led by indigenous peoples, decided to intervene. He would later tell The Detroit Free Press that the teenagers "were in the process of attacking these four black individuals" and he decided to attempt to de-escalate the situation. He seems profoundly mistaken: The video footage taken by the black nationalists shows no evidence the white teenagers had any intention of attacking. Nevertheless, Phillips characterized the kids as "beasts" and the hate-group members as "their prey":
Enter the viewpoint: Reasonable response, given the duration and intensity of criticism. Now, Nebuchad, you have two options.
One is to stubbornly refuse to admit that nobody can conclude that the kids weren't being dicks. The author thinks they behaved admirably in restrained manner and calm despite the intense slurs. Maybe you have some way to dismiss his perspective as invalid. He doesn't get to have an opinion or his opinion is wrong. And it's not your opinion that he's wrong about the video, it's somehow objectively wrong from watching the video.
The second is to admit that one possible interpretation, and an *arguable* position even if you don't agree with it, is that they don't fall under a universal definition of "dicks."
I don't care what you end up personally believing, only that you can eventually conceive of a universe where there's a version where they aren't being dicks. Unless you wanna be a dick about it.
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/mvOB5cD.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/jkaIac7.jpg)
