US Politics Mega-Blog - Page 147

On January 23 2019 03:26 Mercy13 wrote:
Meh wearing a Maga hat in the first place is a pretty dick move. The kids probably don't deserve the internet pile on, but they aren't totally innocent.

Who hasn't made a Tomahawk gesture while mock chanting toward a Native American

On January 23 2019 03:41 White__Hart wrote:



-be chanting and mucking around
-someone walks up to you banging a drum
-continue chanting and mucking around

I can only hope Nathan Phillips is recovering well after his harrowing experience.

On January 23 2019 03:36 Nebuchad wrote:
Every time it amazes me. There is video of the stuff happening. You can literally SEE it. It's quite a minor point in the grand scheme of politics, so it's not like you are forced to stand your ground for some reason.

But no, no matter what, we're going to have to debate the point. Cause what do I know, maybe there is some amount of abuse that the black Israelites could have hurled at them that would justify acting like dicks to a third party (or even to the israelites, for what it's worth). I mean, we've all been young, right? Who hasn't made a Tomahawk gesture while mock chanting toward a Native American because they were annoyed by something else, am I right?

On January 23 2019 03:38 Taelshin wrote:
Thanks for linking the video Brian, My eye's are totally opened now that you linked the video that I already stated I've seen. Its shocking to think you watched that and didn't side with the kids, Who knows maybe there's some build the wall chants in there if I slow it down and turn the sound up loud enough right?

On January 23 2019 03:48 Nebuchad wrote:
So what's the version?

On January 23 2019 03:33 Danglars wrote:

Dude it's the most recognizable political symbol of the current president of the united states. Sartorial choice cannot qualify a dick assignment in this case. Particularly in an overtly political rally.

That's a clear step too far. Like:
Donald Trump ran a divisive campaign that won the presidency, angering a lot of people with his rhetoric and conduct.
(Missing Step)
Therefore wearing a hat with his slogan is a pretty dick move.

The only possible result from calling the hat a dick move is to say (for example) a "Black Lives Matter" tshirt now means the protester is a dick. You just can't go that far into political partisanship on symbols and emerge in a good place.

On January 23 2019 03:55 Mercy13 wrote:


The act of wearing a MAGA hat isn't a dick move because it's a political symbol, but because of the specific politics it represents. People wearing BLM t-shirts are expressing support for the idea that the lives of Black people have value. People wearing MAGA gear are expressing support for dismantling the social safety net, trampling on the human rights of refugees and other immigrants, and ignoring climate change. The list goes on.

Beyond that stuff, the slogan itself is offensive. It implies nostalgia for a time when those uppity Blacks and women knew their place, and didn't trouble the white majority with their pernicious demands for rights and equality.

I have *SOME* sympathy for a person who reluctantly supports Trump because they sincerely believe that his policies are good for the country, while at the same time recognizing that he is an enthusiastic sexual predator and liar with a generally reprehensible character. Those people don't wear MAGA hats though.

On January 23 2019 04:14 Danglars wrote:

Who are you to say who does and does not wear MAGA hats?

Maybe it's worn ironically.
Maybe it's a gesture of defiance of people like you that want to say what their choice wears. Artists do this all the fucking time.
Maybe they don't think immigration policy and foreign policy is inherently racist.
Maybe it's because they like Kanye West's style.
Maybe it's generic opposition to political correctness.
Maybe it's a free speech stand.
Maybe it's an antiglobalist sentiment.
Maybe it's strong borders and a big beautiful door in the wall.

I once had an idea of the left that they're just in favor of more liberty and reduced traditional stereotypes and view all the conservative agenda as restricting and all that. Call that the hippie roots of the 1960s left. Rebel against authority.

Now I'm hearing that members of the left will tell me what my political leaders slogans mean, what the specific politics represented are, what their origin was. Woah. That's straight up religious puritanism wearing a new face. I know what you said, why you said it, even what you wear is a political statement that I myself can interpret and you must be wary of my interpretation.

Example Results: You empower people that will say "Black Lives Matter" supports rioters burning down their cities as a means to combat repression. It's about supporting violence against cops. It's the face of a radical black movement that wants to destroy society in order to rebuild it in a different image.

You empower people that will say Obama, when he said hope and change and a fundamental transformation, he meant undoing the separation of powers and limited government style of America.


You won't like what comes after defining your political enemy's symbols according to your political interpretation. MAGA is the most generic representation of Trump's candidacy and rise to power. It's free form statement allows ANYONE who wears it to connect it to what they think America used to have that has disappeared in the modern time. Just ask the person wearing it why they're wearing it. It's a radical step too far to assign Make America Great Again your personal interpretation of what originally made America Great and how to Make America Great Again.

Your big problem is how broad and generic the slogan is. That makes it inherently comparable to "Black Lives Matter," "Hope and Change," "I'm With Her," "Stronger Together." If you want to connect it to racist motivations and sexist motivations, you empower others that will reinterpret broad slogans to mean other malign things.

On January 23 2019 04:26 Mercy13 wrote:
I think it's fair to say that people who wear gear with Trump's personal slogan enthusiastically support Trump personally. And Trump personally is a shitbag, which should be obvious to anyone after a cursory view of his history. By the transitive property of shitbaggery, enthusiastic supporters of shitbaggery are themselves shitbags. Again, excluding those who reluctantly support Trump despite his shitbaggery rather than because of it.

On January 23 2019 04:46 Danglars wrote:

Absolutely not. It's his presidential campaign's slogan. It explicitly lets the wearer identify what about America used to be great, and how to make it great again. I already gave several examples of how it makes different statements, if you'd like turn your attention to them. You can't tell by a hat if someone's wearing it "despite his shitbaggery" as you put it, or because of his shitbaggery. That's first big problem with initially labeling it "a pretty dick move," the second one opening up every other generic campaign or political movement slogan to interpreting it in whatever negative light you want to.

I'm just really not seeing your argument against it. I like art, and one particular evolution of it goes like "Just because people like Mercy13 assume I'm for enslavement of women and minorities by wearing it is a good reason to wear it. It's a profoundly religious impulse that see something they don't like and call it satanic and move on to the next object of ire."

I think the low-brow interpretation of it is "Fuck the haters," as in their rush to judgement or broad prejudice is reason enough to think lowly of their opinion.

On January 23 2019 04:30 GreenHorizons wrote:


roflmao.

(99%) White kids from a private school not being familiar with Black Israelites and it turning into them mocking Natives is not at all comparable to impoverished kids in cities who raged against a system that regularly harasses, abuses, imprisons, and kills them and the people they love.

The kids acted like jerks. They were antagonized though.

MAGA has to refer to a time when Black people were treated worse. It's not some spastic interpretation, it's literally the only explanation for the word "again" and why MAGA's can never say what time were returning to (at least not any real historical time)

At best you get a time and then they suggest they just want the good parts from that time, while failing to demonstrate basic comprehension of the relation between the shitty things and the parts they liked.

People in MAGA hats (unironically lol) are showing support for terrible and bigoted policy. They are supporting an enthusiastic sexual predator and liar with a generally reprehensible character. It's fair for people to presume MAGA's find that behavior acceptable (even if not desirable).

On January 23 2019 04:50 Danglars wrote:

Yes, I have a very poor view of your attempts to pigeon hole (things you don't like) into (bigoted interpretation). It's one small step removed from saying that my opponents are nazis. You cannot say your interpretation of BLM is a good thing and your interpretation of MAGA is another. It's a subjective determination masquerading as an objective reality.

If wearing the hat is the first tell that you're being a dick, I now know better than I did before why you think the kids were dicks.

"But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity."

On January 23 2019 04:47 GreenHorizons wrote:


Do you wear the hat?