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I'm watching The Late Game episode 38 and the topic of drug tests came up. I would like to put forth an argument as to why drug testing is E-Sports is a bad idea, and why players should organize to fight it.
First I want to discuss the issue of player representation. At the moment players often have no legal representation, and are in fact encouraged by some organizations to not get legal help (according to Ryan Mossiron on TLG). Without representation, players find it harder to get basic rights (like being paid, the ability to appeal actions of organisations), have little recourse when they are mistreated.
Players also need legal representation before signing contracts, but often they can't afford it. If there was a player union, that union could hire legal assistance to help all players negotiate contracts and help mediate disputes. A player union could represent players in the establishment of pay standards, expectations of players, and give players the ability to protest things that are not in their best interests, such as the introduction of drug testing in E-Sports.
Drugs in E-Sports
The ESL announced recently that they were going to team up with NADA (the Nationale Anti Doping Agentur, which is headquartered in Bonn, Germany) to begin testing for performance enhancing drugs. The drugs they are testing for can be seen in this list.
"Our main goal is and always will be to maintain the fair play spirit and the integrity of our competitions, and we’re confident that the anti-doping policy is an important improvement that will help us advance as a sport."
The main discussion has been around Adderall, stemming from an interview with "semphis", a Counterstrike player who said "we're all on Adderall". I will focus on Adderall for the purpose of this discussion.
What if a player has a legitimate prescription for medication (such as Adderall) containing one or more of the banned substances?
In this case, they have to disclose this to us as soon as possible, but no later than the first match is scheduled to start. They will be required to provide proof (a letter from a physician, for example) that they need this specific medication.
So what I take from this is that the ESL wants to start drug testing young people, who often have no legal representation, for a legal substance that some people legitimately need, and that can be used as long as that person has a prescription. From what I understand, Adderall is not a difficult thing to get a prescription for. So all introducing drug tests will mean is that everyone in E-Sports who wants to use Adderall will have a prescription for Adderall. It will not effect competitive play at all. It will achieve nothing toward their stated goal.
I understand and agree with the viewpoint that it would be nice if everything was 100% fair 100% of the time. But If you want a level playfield, I think the area where the biggest imbalance lies is between players and E-Sports organisations like ESL. Drug testing is going to be a massive waste of money in an industry where players regularly get shafted financially. Do players want that money to go to a drug testing company to do tests that will cause inconvenience and not make any significant difference to the amount of Adderall used?
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I kind of disagree. Once major league baseball banned/tested for amphetamines, usage dropped drastically. If it were so easy to get a prescription (it kind of is, but not *anyone* can), why aren't major leaguers doing it? They do have a medical exemption and some people do it but far from as many as there were before the ban.
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On August 23 2015 12:54 coolman123123 wrote:
I kind of disagree. Once major league baseball banned/tested for amphetamines, usage dropped drastically. If it were so easy to get a prescription (it kind of is, but not *anyone* can), why aren't major leaguers doing it? They do have a medical exemption and some people do it but far from as many as there were before the ban.
They stopped using the amphetamines that they tested for - they moved onto other things.
If it's true that most, but not anyone can get a prescription, does drug testing make things more fair? I don't think so. No big time player is going to have trouble getting a prescription if they want one.
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The reason we can't allow players to use drugs in any sport is that young people especially look up to said players, and will abuse drugs the pro's show them to be "okay" and "mainstream." And then we'll have high schoolers and middle schoolers taking drugs and ruining their bodies. Sport figures are role models to our youth, whether or not we like it, and whether or not we think it should be that way.
We don't need kids running to get a prescription for Adderall because their favorite SC2 player uses it and because they think it will help them get out of Gold League. That is ethically and morally wrong.
Beyond that, your argument makes little sense. You don't want to burden players with smaller prize pools due to the cost of drug testing? Adderall costs money, chief. Especially if you are getting it illegally.
And you want things to be fair, but since this won't be 100% fair (nothing is...), there is no point in even trying? It just doesn't make any sense. Any aspiring kid who is working hard to get to GM and become a professional player should be able to compete at the highest levels without Adderall. He shouldn't need to beg his parents to take him to the doctor, and financially burden his family or himself so he can play Starcraft. He shouldn't have to put unnecessary medication in his body to chase his dream.
That is wrong.
The right thing to do is get it out the hands of the players who abuse it.
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I always find it strange when people complain about something as being bad but they do not come with better alternatives that would improve the situation. My view is if you can not do something better than someone else than shut up and let them do it. At least they are trying to do something to improve the situation. People always find ways around the rules, that's why rules have to bee updated , but I think that's far better than doing nothing. If nothing else at least the players who take something at least know that is wrong.
I would like to see a drug free esports scene (as much as possible). And it is not ESL's fault that players do not have a union.
Your arguments are strange I mean even Lance Armstrong in the end was stripped of his titles and his legacy now is that he was able to do drugs better than anyone else. Was it worth it ?
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On August 23 2015 13:31 BronzeKnee wrote:
The reason we can't allow players to use drugs in any sport is that young people especially look up to said players, and will abuse drugs the pro's show them be "okay" and "mainstream." And then we'll have high schoolers and middle schoolers taking drugs and ruining their bodies. Sport figures are role models to our youth, whether or not we like it, and whether or not we think it should be that way.
We don't need kids running to get a prescription for Adderall because their favorite SC2 player uses it and because they think it will help them get out of Gold League. That is ethically and morally wrong.
I agree with you. However, as I wrote above, drug testing will not stop players from using Adderall. Many drugs are illegal in broader society, and yet they are still used by young people. Drug testing has not eliminated drugs from any sport. Prohibition does not work.
If you want to stop people from abusing drugs, the best way to go about it is drug education.
Beyond that, your argument makes little sense. You don't want to burden players with smaller prize pools due to the cost of drug testing? Adderall costs money, chief. Especially if you are getting it illegally.
Adderall costing money has nothing to do with the ESL wasting money on something that will not achieve its stated goals, and will result in lower income for people who are already paid very little.
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On August 23 2015 13:44 baiesradu wrote:
I always find it strange when people complain about something as being bad but they do not come with better alternatives that would improve the situation. My view is if you can not do something better than someone else than shut up and let them do it. At least they are trying to do something to improve the situation. People always find ways around the rules, that's why rules have to bee updated , but I think that's far better than doing nothing. If nothing else at least the players who take something at least know that is wrong.
Do you think it's a good idea to vilify players who take a legally prescribed substance? Should we automatically assume players who take Adderall are cheating? Should we ban Adderall, prescription or no?
I would like to see a drug free esports scene (as much as possible).
Me too.
And it is not ESL's fault that players do not have a union.
I agree that it is not ESL's fault that there is no player union.
Your arguments are strange I mean even Lance Armstrong in the end was stripped of his titles and his legacy now is that he was able to do drugs better than anyone else. Was it worth it ?
Do you think that drug testing was an effective deterrent which stopped cyclists from doping? Do you think the sport is clean now?
http://www.quora.com/Why-did-Lance-Armstrong-never-test-positive
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so many players aspiring to be pro smoke weed 
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On August 23 2015 13:31 BronzeKnee wrote:
The reason we can't allow players to use drugs in any sport is that young people especially look up to said players, and will abuse drugs the pro's show them to be "okay" and "mainstream." And then we'll have high schoolers and middle schoolers taking drugs and ruining their bodies. Sport figures are role models to our youth, whether or not we like it, and whether or not we think it should be that way.
We don't need kids running to get a prescription for Adderall because their favorite SC2 player uses it and because they think it will help them get out of Gold League. That is ethically and morally wrong.
I think that type of argument has already been sold in the past. First of all if a favorite player of mine use drugs I probably won't even know or even if I did I won't get affected by it. Then if my said favorite player endorsed a gaming product I'll probably look into it but will still prioritize which products in the market fits me the most. So then if my said favorite player endorsed an illegal substance or a dealer it won't affect me at all since I know what is best for me. Also take into account that most people in the community only knows people on the internet and they won't like fly across the globe to do drugs with the members of their fanclub. It's a great initiative tho to get the support of the masses that E-sports is taking this steps. But it's not really necessary and it's all for publicity in my opinion.
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Adderall is not a "legal substance".
In fact, in many countries Adderall is considered an illegal drug, and not even allowed with prescription. And in the remaining countries, it is only allowed with prescription, but has the same legal status as most other hard drugs.
But I guess, when suddenly all esport players need Adderall, because of their severe illnesses, it is the same as all bicyclists having rheumatism. Just sad for those poor players, that they better check where their next tourney is, because they may not be allowed to take their "medication" there.
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On August 23 2015 16:28 mahrgell wrote:
Adderall is not a "legal substance".
In fact, in many countries Adderall is considered an illegal drug, and not even allowed with prescription. And in the remaining countries, it is only allowed with prescription, but has the same legal status as most other hard drugs.
But I guess, when suddenly all esport players need Adderall, because of their severe illnesses, it is the same as all bicyclists having rheumatism. Just sad for those poor players, that they better check where their next tourney is, because they may not be allowed to take their "medication" there.
It is a legal substance in places where it's legal, which is why the ESL is allowing people to use it with a prescription.
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Noone "legitimately needs" speed and the US healthcare system is ridiculous for prescribing that drug to children. You can see the team that caused this scandal dropped out in the group phase this weekend, while they were constantly placing top 2 in the recents months. Drug tests are good for the sport. You are simply unfit for esports if you can't function without these kinds of drugs and should look into some other career.
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On August 23 2015 17:24 FLeK0 wrote:
Noone "legitimately needs" speed and the US healthcare system is ridiculous for prescribing that drug to children. You can see the team that caused this scandal dropped out in the group phase this weekend, while they were constantly placing top 2 in the recents months. Drug tests are good for the sport.
Adderall may be over-prescribed in the US, but introducing drug testing into E-Sports is not going to help fix the problems with the US healthcare system. The point I am making is that drug tests will not stop people from using Adderall, especially when there's an easy loophole in place.
You are simply unfit for esports if you can't function without these kinds of drugs and should look into some other career.
Maybe. Maybe the demands put on players and the conditions under which they are expected to perform are unreasonable. If the players had a union to represent their interests a proper discussion could be had. For example, if the reason why players are using Adderall is to stay alert after long hours of play at a LAN, a player union could demand longer rest periods. As it is, the ESL is going to impose testing on players without players having proper representation in the matter, and I see this as another instance in which the lack of a player union is screwing them over.
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How harmfull is this Adderall thing? How useful for a SC2 gamer?
I am generally strongly against the fact that I am not allowed to take any chemical substance I want and consider the relentless fight against drugs pretty stupid. Drugs should be legalized for all adults now and with no questions.
That being said, the only sport-related situation when I can see drugs being a problem is when they are both significantly usefull and significantly harmfull. In such a case, you are essentially not able to compete without harming yourself (leaving aside whether that's not the case anyway because training SC2 12 hours/day is probably nto doing you any good anyway) - and that's an undesirable situation.
However I don't see it very clealrly that this here is the case. AFAIK Adderall is prescribed to children by doctors against not life-threatening conditons, so it has to be pretty safe. And the effect on SC2 performace is mild at best. So I don't really think there is an enemy to fight.
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On August 23 2015 15:31 toe wrote:so many players aspiring to be pro smoke weed
And it's in fact legal in the states where some of them live, as well as being a prescription drug in many cases. The waters get murkier...
That being said, I really do agree with drug testing in esports overall - I don't agree with marijuana being included in any of the lists for real sports either, but I completely think it's still the right thing to do. Both because I like fair competition and like it or not, a lot of these players are role models to people everywhere and that has to be understood.
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On August 23 2015 19:02 Cyx. wrote:
That being said, I really do agree with drug testing in esports overall - I don't agree with marijuana being included in any of the lists for real sports either, but I completely think it's still the right thing to do. Both because I like fair competition and like it or not, a lot of these players are role models to people everywhere and that has to be understood.
Why do you think drug testing will make the competition fairer? As I pointed out in my first post, the drug test will not stop anyone from using Adderall.
Do you think drug testing is the best way to educate young people about drugs? Wouldn't a drug education program be better suited to that purpose?
What do you think about players organizing into a union to represent their side?
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i thought the last thing was that 30%+ of atheletes use performance enhancing drugs .
i dont even know if drug testing in mainstream sports is a "good" thing let alone in esports
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On August 23 2015 13:31 BronzeKnee wrote:
The reason we can't allow players to use drugs in any sport is that young people especially look up to said players, and will abuse drugs the pro's show them to be "okay" and "mainstream." And then we'll have high schoolers and middle schoolers taking drugs and ruining their bodies. Sport figures are role models to our youth, whether or not we like it, and whether or not we think it should be that way.
We don't need kids running to get a prescription for Adderall because their favorite SC2 player uses it and because they think it will help them get out of Gold League. That is ethically and morally wrong.
Ah yes the good old "won't someone think of the children" argument. And from an American no less, the jokes write themselves at this point.
On August 23 2015 19:35 Quineotio wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2015 19:02 Cyx. wrote:
That being said, I really do agree with drug testing in esports overall - I don't agree with marijuana being included in any of the lists for real sports either, but I completely think it's still the right thing to do. Both because I like fair competition and like it or not, a lot of these players are role models to people everywhere and that has to be understood. Why do you think drug testing will make the competition fairer? As I pointed out in my first post, the drug test will not stop anyone from using Adderall. Do you think drug testing is the best way to educate young people about drugs? Wouldn't a drug education program be better suited to that purpose? What do you think about players organizing into a union to represent their side?
I like how nobody is addressing this ^ , probably because it's easier to just rip on the drug boogeyman as always rather than think critically about anything... hmm...
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Why i am against drug testing right now is that tournament organizers should focus on stuff that are way more important to the scene RIGHT NOW. Some tournaments still don't offer decent table(s) and chairs for the players. How about we start from there and move on to other stuff.
Not to mention countless other issues.
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On August 23 2015 19:02 Cyx. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2015 15:31 toe wrote:so many players aspiring to be pro smoke weed And it's in fact legal in the states where some of them live, as well as being a prescription drug in many cases. The waters get murkier... That being said, I really do agree with drug testing in esports overall - I don't agree with marijuana being included in any of the lists for real sports either, but I completely think it's still the right thing to do. Both because I like fair competition and like it or not, a lot of these players are role models to people everywhere and that has to be understood.
Smoking marijuana is allowed as long as you aren't doing it during the tournament. (ESL). As it should be.
Is ESL prohibiting the usage of marijuana?
During the competition, we are. Marijuana is on the list of prohibited substances for during the competition. This means that recreational use of it outside (before) the event days will not be punished. Using it during the tournament - from the start of the first day until the end of the last day of competition - is strictly prohibited.
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I think something that is a major consideration is the actual effects of the drugs being tested for.
Steroid use and other drugs used in physical sports tend to have negative effects that are fairly pronounced and in many cases quite rapid.
Adderall can certainly have negative side effects, like many drugs, but if it's being monitored at all and isn't being abused, it isn't really a major health risk.
Things aren't supposed to be banned just because they improve performance, they are generally banned due to improving performance in exchange for negative impacts on health. If that isn't actually the case with a drug like Adderall, (and some in physical sports argue is also true with HGH) then it's not as big of an issue.
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On August 23 2015 21:20 EnderSword wrote:
Adderall can certainly have negative side effects, like many drugs, but if it's being monitored at all and isn't being abused, it isn't really a major health risk.
this applys to every substance on earth.
On August 23 2015 21:20 EnderSword wrote:
Things aren't supposed to be banned just because they improve performance, they are generally banned due to improving performance in exchange for negative impacts on health. If that isn't actually the case with a drug like Adderall, (and some in physical sports argue is also true with HGH) then it's not as big of an issue.
and this is just plain wrong.
in sports drugs are banned because of improving performance, and certainly not cause it impacts health.
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On August 23 2015 22:02 phil.ipp wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2015 21:20 EnderSword wrote:
Adderall can certainly have negative side effects, like many drugs, but if it's being monitored at all and isn't being abused, it isn't really a major health risk.
this applys to every substance on earth. Show nested quote +On August 23 2015 21:20 EnderSword wrote:
Things aren't supposed to be banned just because they improve performance, they are generally banned due to improving performance in exchange for negative impacts on health. If that isn't actually the case with a drug like Adderall, (and some in physical sports argue is also true with HGH) then it's not as big of an issue. and this is just plain wrong. in sports drugs are banned because of improving performance, and certainly not cause it impacts health.
If substances are banned solely because they enhance performance, why isn't caffeine banned?
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On August 23 2015 22:14 Quineotio wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2015 22:02 phil.ipp wrote:On August 23 2015 21:20 EnderSword wrote:
Adderall can certainly have negative side effects, like many drugs, but if it's being monitored at all and isn't being abused, it isn't really a major health risk.
this applys to every substance on earth. On August 23 2015 21:20 EnderSword wrote:
Things aren't supposed to be banned just because they improve performance, they are generally banned due to improving performance in exchange for negative impacts on health. If that isn't actually the case with a drug like Adderall, (and some in physical sports argue is also true with HGH) then it's not as big of an issue. and this is just plain wrong. in sports drugs are banned because of improving performance, and certainly not cause it impacts health. If substances are banned solely because they enhance performance, why isn't caffeine banned?
a) caffeine above certain levels was banned for many years (those levels were easily reached by drinking 2 coffees)
b) saying that amphetamines pose no health risk is just showing how well informed you are
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On August 23 2015 22:21 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2015 22:14 Quineotio wrote:On August 23 2015 22:02 phil.ipp wrote:On August 23 2015 21:20 EnderSword wrote:
Adderall can certainly have negative side effects, like many drugs, but if it's being monitored at all and isn't being abused, it isn't really a major health risk.
this applys to every substance on earth. On August 23 2015 21:20 EnderSword wrote:
Things aren't supposed to be banned just because they improve performance, they are generally banned due to improving performance in exchange for negative impacts on health. If that isn't actually the case with a drug like Adderall, (and some in physical sports argue is also true with HGH) then it's not as big of an issue. and this is just plain wrong. in sports drugs are banned because of improving performance, and certainly not cause it impacts health. If substances are banned solely because they enhance performance, why isn't caffeine banned? a) caffeine above certain levels was banned for many years (those levels were easily reached by drinking 2 coffees)
The point I was making above was that substances are not banned for the sole reason that they enhance performance. Caffeine is certainly not banned, and indeed energy drink companies are major sponsors of various E-Sport teams and events (e.g. Monster, Redbull, Hotsix).
b) saying that amphetamines pose no health risk is just showing how well informed you are
Where has anyone said that amphetamines pose no health risk?
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of course its for the sole reason of improved performance.
i dont get why you think a sports organization would start to evaluate if certain substances are good or bad for health, thats what the government already does. its not the question if adderall is healthy or not. the single question that matters in this specific context of a sports tournament is: does it give an unfair advantage.
and why some other drug is not prohibited, i dont know, maybe cause they think its doesnt give an unfair advantage 
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On August 23 2015 22:57 phil.ipp wrote:of course its for the sole reason of improved performance. i dont get why you think a sports organization would start to evaluate if certain substances are good or bad for health, thats what the government already does. its not the question if adderall is healthy or not. the single question that matters in this specific context of a sports tournament is: does it give an unfair advantage. and why some other drug is not prohibited, i dont know, maybe cause they think its doesnt give an unfair advantage
Then my question stands - why aren't all performance enhancing substances banned? Caffeine clearly boosts performance and is widely used.
What is the problem with taking something that enhances performance if it's legal and not harmful?
If the goal is to get rid of drugs that enhance performance, why are they testing for non performance enhancing substances such as heroin?
Regardless, this is a digression from the topic at hand. As stated in the first post, introducing a drug testing policy will not stop players from using Adderall, and will therefore not change the competitive landscape, and is therefore a waste of time and money. I think this is a knee jerk PR stunt in reaction to the "revelations" that some players are using drugs. The ESL want to appear to be trying to clean up E-Sports, but in reality this action is unlikely to advance that cause.
I think that players should be protesting this more than they are, but have their hands tied somewhat because they have no representation in the matter. For an individual player or team to come out against drug testing is very risky, because they will be seen as pro drugs. This is why I'm suggesting the players need to form a union so that they can present a unified voice and actually have a say in what is happening.
I also think that if the players had a union they would be able to bargain for better conditions during competitions, and perhaps reduce the incentive to use stimulants to keep their performance high.
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e-sports is in its kindershoes, what do expect a full fledged anti doping policy? lets talk again in 10 years.
in every other sport of course caffein is forbidden ...
but it seems there is a deeper problem at hand in your understanding why this is done.
What is the problem with taking something that enhances performance if it's legal and not harmful?
because its an unfair advantage and most players want a fair competition. its a bit akward to even have to speak that out. it seems obvious.
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On August 23 2015 22:57 phil.ipp wrote:of course its for the sole reason of improved performance. i dont get why you think a sports organization would start to evaluate if certain substances are good or bad for health, thats what the government already does. its not the question if adderall is healthy or not. the single question that matters in this specific context of a sports tournament is: does it give an unfair advantage. and why some other drug is not prohibited, i dont know, maybe cause they think its doesnt give an unfair advantage
With this logic, you should probably ban players from eating vegetables.
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Honestly if someone wanted to microdose LSD it would be undetectable/likely a great focus and preformance enhancer.
My point being that if someone does enough research and is willing they can circumvent bans.
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On August 23 2015 23:42 opisska wrote:
With this logic, you should probably ban players from eating vegetables.
what ?! Oo
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On August 23 2015 23:42 Vasoline73 wrote:
Honestly if someone wanted to microdose LSD it would be undetectable/likely a great focus and preformance enhancer.
My point being that if someone does enough research and is willing they can circumvent bans.
what are you trying to say.
only things that are not circumvent able should be banned?
please tell me a single thing of that kind?
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On August 23 2015 23:43 phil.ipp wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2015 23:42 opisska wrote:
With this logic, you should probably ban players from eating vegetables. what ?! Oo
People who eat vegetables are likely to be healthier and thus perform better, aren't they?
The point is that your definition on "unfair" is purely ad-hoc. Why are some substances fair and some not? If something is benefitial for your performance, why not to take it? The only good reason is health impact - if something is truly bad for you, you should not take - and then it should be banned if it improves performance, because otherwise people willing to risk their health would be in advantange and that is undesirable. Whether the think has a label of "being a drug" is completely irrelevant to anything practical.
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On August 23 2015 23:41 phil.ipp wrote:
e-sports is in its kindershoes, what do expect a full fledged anti doping policy? lets talk again in 10 years.
What I expect is a functional doping policy.
Show nested quote +
What is the problem with taking something that enhances performance if it's legal and not harmful?
because its an unfair advantage and most players want a fair competition. its a bit akward to even have to speak that out. it seems obvious.
Lol, do you realize what you're saying?
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Bisutopia19246 Posts
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