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Please keep the QQ to a minimum if you do not like this update. We are happy to hear your reasoning for not liking a ranked system, but no "OMG VOLVO WHY" posts. |
On January 07 2014 14:24 AndyJay wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 13:20 Kuroeeah wrote:
SingSing is the best ladder player, Valve even acknowledged him being rank 1 back during the TI2 era. I doubt it. He's good but he screw around too much.
Nothing to doubt, he was rank 1 back then. He also doesn't stream his solo ranked games since he takes them more seriously, he started at 5800 and got to 6100 within a couple of days
+ Show Spoiler +When Toby came back from Valve, he stated that Valve in fact confirmed that you are the highest rated player in Dota 2 matchmaking. Are you humble about this?I don't really care much about it. I mean, whether I know that I'm the #1 ranked on the matchmaking ladder or not, it doesn't change anything. It's like having sex with a girl with no contraception; then finding out the next day that she didn't get knocked up. It's goddamn good to know, but it doesn't change anything in the end; except for shortening your life span for about 5 years. It doesn't really make me a better or worse player. I hope. http://www.joindota.com/en/news/3093-singsing-ti2-pressure-getting-to-us
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That's pretty cool. Wonder if they'll make a top 1K list or something public. Seems like the next logical step. For the matchmaking.
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On January 07 2014 14:27 Kuroeeah wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 14:24 AndyJay wrote:On January 07 2014 13:20 Kuroeeah wrote:
SingSing is the best ladder player, Valve even acknowledged him being rank 1 back during the TI2 era. I doubt it. He's good but he screw around too much. Nothing to doubt, he was rank 1 back then. He also doesn't stream his solo ranked games since he takes them more seriously, he started at 5800 and got to 6100 within a couple of days + Show Spoiler +When Toby came back from Valve, he stated that Valve in fact confirmed that you are the highest rated player in Dota 2 matchmaking. Are you humble about this?I don't really care much about it. I mean, whether I know that I'm the #1 ranked on the matchmaking ladder or not, it doesn't change anything. It's like having sex with a girl with no contraception; then finding out the next day that she didn't get knocked up. It's goddamn good to know, but it doesn't change anything in the end; except for shortening your life span for about 5 years. It doesn't really make me a better or worse player. I hope. http://www.joindota.com/en/news/3093-singsing-ti2-pressure-getting-to-us
Being the best ladder player at TI2 and now is probably a very different thing.
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Who's higher rated than Sing right now? If he isn't already, he's somewhere up there.
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Well about Sing, it was the same thing in sc2. Top pro players won like 3/4 points by game, but lost like 30 points. This is noT shocking since they had like 80% winrate.
I guess it's quite the same thing in Dota. But everything is screwed as soon as you start to stack.
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Yea people giving example of Sing's +1 gains don't realize that Sing is heavily favored to win his games.
Remember in SC2 when Huk had this massive streak and he kept getting +1/+2/+3 even though he beat top5 people on ladder?
Pretty much the same thing.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On January 07 2014 14:59 Kuroeeah wrote:
Who's higher rated than Sing right now? If he isn't already, he's somewhere up there.
s4 and Bulldog are higher than him now for sure.
Misery as well iirc.
Dunno about other.
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Every now and then I have games that just don't show up after and don't award points. Happened like 3 times now, exclusively when I won. How surprising. Has that happened to anyone else?
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Yes, it has happened to me too a few times.
It's just probably a bug or something. I've also lost and the game didn't get processed / didn't lose points so that can happen as well.
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Finally a game I like to play that will tell me what my mmr is! GG valve.
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Shopped probably. Otherwise we would have heard about it more often. Thousands of games has been played so we should have heard about it some times by now I think.
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Are servers fine today? Getting really long queue for games and 2 of my games didnt count in ranked.
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The problem with all this MMR theory crafting is that most people haven't fully grasped the significance of Solo MMR vs Party MMR. Yes we all know what the basic difference is. However we must consider that this distinction didn't use to exist, yet I assume both uses your old MMR (before ranked) as the baseline. All the theory crafting I'm seeing in this thread makes an unintended assumption that everyone had been solo queuing the entire time. Ranked has only been out for a few weeks, compared with over 2.5 yrs of data for some players. Unless Valve has told us that it had been tracking solo and party mmr independently the entire time, most of the solo MMRs that exist today don't represent true solo queuing "skill".
As for Elo Hell, I believe this can exist to a certain extent for players who have mostly solo queued. Like others have said before, in a 5v5 everyone solo queued, 1 person can't really make that much of a difference unless he is playing MUCH better than everyone else. How much better is the real question here.
Can a 6k MMR player carry the game on his own in a game filled with 5k players? How about 5k players in a 4k game? 4k player in a 3k game? Some of these differences can be made up I believe, but at there are way too many in game variables preventing people from moving up (the biggest being unwillingness of the 5 random ppl to cooperate) quickly.
I think those people who complain about Elo Hell do have valid arguments but the system takes a lot of time for make the small adjustments in MMR. I think most casual players who maybe really ARE better than their current MMR simply don't have the time to play enough games for the system to bump them up, especially since everyone gets caught up on the losses more than the wins.
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Valve said that they've been tracking party and solo mmr separately for quite a while so in short you are completely wrong 
MMR is not a skill rating but rather a "chance to win" rating. If you are stuck at an MMR you deserve to be there because you cause insufficiently increased chance to win for your rating to be higher than that. It isn't really a commentary on skill. Pro's mmrs vary pretty heavily from person to person because of how likely they are to win in a pub circumstance, but that doesn't really change how skilled they are at dota.
Thus "ELO Hell" or whatever you wish to call it is a fallacy.
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having played with/against 6k players i can tell you, you definitely can carry a bunch of 5k scrubs solo
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In a single game perhaps you will not make much of a difference if your team is feeding and got outpicked etc etc, but over a stretch of tens and hundreds of games if you really are better than the people you are playing with you will be moving up, which is what people don't understand.
You may not singlehandedly carry every game to get to your "true MMR" unless you're way outstripping the people you are playing with, but if you really ARE 1000 points higher than them, you are going to create more opportunities to win due to your better mechanics and superior decision making.
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On January 08 2014 03:36 Sn0_Man wrote:Valve said that they've been tracking party and solo mmr separately for quite a while so in short you are completely wrong MMR is not a skill rating but rather a "chance to win" rating. If you are stuck at an MMR you deserve to be there because you cause insufficiently increased chance to win for your rating to be higher than that. It isn't really a commentary on skill. Pro's mmrs vary pretty heavily from person to person because of how likely they are to win in a pub circumstance, but that doesn't really change how skilled they are at dota. Thus "ELO Hell" or whatever you wish to call it is a fallacy.
OK. That makes sense.
But I still think that when someone is just a little bit better than their current MMR, the climb up is a slower process than people are expecting. A lot of variables have to work out in your favor and when your own contribution isn't reliably the main catalyst, a climb of say 500 elo may be slow.
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A climb of 500 MMR is also a transition from 50th percentile (2250) to 75th percentile (2731). Aka you surpass 25% of the entire dota-playing population (6.5Million total players) in that stretch. So it taking "a while" is probably justified. If you go on a mad streak smurf detection kicks in and you can climb 1K plus pretty fast though afaik so its not like you can just pubstomp forever and assume the MMR won't go up fast.
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On January 08 2014 04:05 wuhan_clan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 03:36 Sn0_Man wrote:Valve said that they've been tracking party and solo mmr separately for quite a while so in short you are completely wrong MMR is not a skill rating but rather a "chance to win" rating. If you are stuck at an MMR you deserve to be there because you cause insufficiently increased chance to win for your rating to be higher than that. It isn't really a commentary on skill. Pro's mmrs vary pretty heavily from person to person because of how likely they are to win in a pub circumstance, but that doesn't really change how skilled they are at dota. Thus "ELO Hell" or whatever you wish to call it is a fallacy. OK. That makes sense. But I still think that when someone is just a little bit better than their current MMR, the climb up is a slower process than people are expecting. A lot of variables have to work out in your favor and when your own contribution isn't reliably the main catalyst, a climb of say 500 elo may be slow.
Someone just a little bit better than everyone else they are playing in is not in "Elo hell". People in it complain their teammates being much worse than themselfs, else it wouldn't make sense to call it hell. So that basically kills the argument.
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EPT
