|
Please keep the QQ to a minimum if you do not like this update. We are happy to hear your reasoning for not liking a ranked system, but no "OMG VOLVO WHY" posts. |
On December 07 2013 20:00 njt7 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 19:49 cortx wrote:
I don't get how people can not like this update... This is the best news ever! This is more important than new heros or anything that's been released for ages in my opinion!
Having a rank and knowing the people around you will be great for the community! I'm always playing solo Q and hope that this allows me to link up with other players to form teams etc. I'd love to get into some experienced groups and this is a easy winner to make that possible! Having a ranked solo queue will not help you find a team. Finding a team to play with is about social networking and taking initiatives. Or luck. Id gladly be convinced otherwise but I just don't see it.
Top solo queue players get queued together often since there are less players at the top rating, which builds their social network.
|
On December 07 2013 20:37 rob.au wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 20:00 njt7 wrote:On December 07 2013 19:49 cortx wrote:
I don't get how people can not like this update... This is the best news ever! This is more important than new heros or anything that's been released for ages in my opinion!
Having a rank and knowing the people around you will be great for the community! I'm always playing solo Q and hope that this allows me to link up with other players to form teams etc. I'd love to get into some experienced groups and this is a easy winner to make that possible! Having a ranked solo queue will not help you find a team. Finding a team to play with is about social networking and taking initiatives. Or luck. Id gladly be convinced otherwise but I just don't see it. Top solo queue players get queued together often since there are less players at the top rating, which builds their social network.
That's not really different from now...
|
On December 07 2013 20:32 Bumblebee wrote:
Also, it incentivises killstealing, taking the farm when you're not supposed to and stuff... It's just not good. :-(
How does it do that? o_o
|
On December 07 2013 19:14 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 18:25 TheEmulator wrote:On December 07 2013 18:15 Laurens wrote:On December 07 2013 17:28 TheEmulator wrote:
The most important thing (that is if ranked mmr is based off your normal mmr) is that a good player can't go play ranked on a new account and own the low ranks. Once he gets to 150 games he will be at a really high normal mmr, and will place higher initially when he enters ranked, instead of at the lower end.
edit: unless you purposefully lose 150 games in order to enter ranked at a low mmr. But then you're an idiot if you do that. Are you sure ranked MMR will be based on normal MMR? The article doesn't hint that it will. I think it will just be the 10 placement games and everyone starts with a clean slate. I'm not sure at all, that's why I said "that is if ranked mmr is based off your normal mmr". I think it will be that way, or at least in my mind it makes the most sense. But I have no idea  I am getting this impression that everyone will have a clean start with ranked game because technically all the games we played are not ranked. Show nested quote +Matches played in normal matchmaking do not impact your ranked matchmaking MMR, and vice versa.
When you first start using ranked matchmaking, you will enter a calibration phase of 10 games. During this time, your ranked MMR will not be visible. And that makes sense too, because what's the point if we used current mmr (which is a mess) as a baseline for ranked game's mmr :S I am just so damn happy that we will get solo mmr, too many people just purposely stack with tryhards and brag about them mmr. And i hope they will include some sort of hero score too so people who can only play very few heroes will be noted too.
Current MMR is fine, do you realise they will be using the same system for ranked?
I, for once, think the base mmr in ranked (for your first game)should be your normal mmr
|
On December 07 2013 20:45 Unleashing wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 20:32 Bumblebee wrote:
Also, it incentivises killstealing, taking the farm when you're not supposed to and stuff... It's just not good. :-( How does it do that? o_o
Read the first post I made.
It rates people's individual performance via an algorithm and that means you can go down in MMR even if you won a game. When it's ranked, people want to get higher MMR obviously. Since the determining factor is an algorithm to determine your performance, it definitely has something to do with KDA, XPM and GPM. :-)
|
On December 07 2013 20:46 Teton wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 19:14 BurningSera wrote:On December 07 2013 18:25 TheEmulator wrote:On December 07 2013 18:15 Laurens wrote:On December 07 2013 17:28 TheEmulator wrote:
The most important thing (that is if ranked mmr is based off your normal mmr) is that a good player can't go play ranked on a new account and own the low ranks. Once he gets to 150 games he will be at a really high normal mmr, and will place higher initially when he enters ranked, instead of at the lower end.
edit: unless you purposefully lose 150 games in order to enter ranked at a low mmr. But then you're an idiot if you do that. Are you sure ranked MMR will be based on normal MMR? The article doesn't hint that it will. I think it will just be the 10 placement games and everyone starts with a clean slate. I'm not sure at all, that's why I said "that is if ranked mmr is based off your normal mmr". I think it will be that way, or at least in my mind it makes the most sense. But I have no idea I am getting this impression that everyone will have a clean start with ranked game because technically all the games we played are not ranked. Matches played in normal matchmaking do not impact your ranked matchmaking MMR, and vice versa.
When you first start using ranked matchmaking, you will enter a calibration phase of 10 games. During this time, your ranked MMR will not be visible. And that makes sense too, because what's the point if we used current mmr (which is a mess) as a baseline for ranked game's mmr :S I am just so damn happy that we will get solo mmr, too many people just purposely stack with tryhards and brag about them mmr. And i hope they will include some sort of hero score too so people who can only play very few heroes will be noted too. Current MMR is fine, do you realise they will be using the same system for ranked? I, for once, think the base mmr in ranked (for your first game)should be your normal mmr
I disagree with this because people will have a different approach to ranked games and normal games. Whatever you've done in an unranked setting should not reflect your ranked setting.
|
It seems its only for people whose mmr is uncertain tho, the variable must be less 0.1 when you got more than 1k games, meaning only win/loss would matter in the end
|
That was a really interesting read, I like how they take into account other variable than winrate to monitor the quality of their matchmaking, i really like this kind of post giving informations on what's happening "behind the scene"
|
On December 07 2013 20:49 Bumblebee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 20:46 Teton wrote:On December 07 2013 19:14 BurningSera wrote:On December 07 2013 18:25 TheEmulator wrote:On December 07 2013 18:15 Laurens wrote:On December 07 2013 17:28 TheEmulator wrote:
The most important thing (that is if ranked mmr is based off your normal mmr) is that a good player can't go play ranked on a new account and own the low ranks. Once he gets to 150 games he will be at a really high normal mmr, and will place higher initially when he enters ranked, instead of at the lower end.
edit: unless you purposefully lose 150 games in order to enter ranked at a low mmr. But then you're an idiot if you do that. Are you sure ranked MMR will be based on normal MMR? The article doesn't hint that it will. I think it will just be the 10 placement games and everyone starts with a clean slate. I'm not sure at all, that's why I said "that is if ranked mmr is based off your normal mmr". I think it will be that way, or at least in my mind it makes the most sense. But I have no idea I am getting this impression that everyone will have a clean start with ranked game because technically all the games we played are not ranked. Matches played in normal matchmaking do not impact your ranked matchmaking MMR, and vice versa.
When you first start using ranked matchmaking, you will enter a calibration phase of 10 games. During this time, your ranked MMR will not be visible. And that makes sense too, because what's the point if we used current mmr (which is a mess) as a baseline for ranked game's mmr :S I am just so damn happy that we will get solo mmr, too many people just purposely stack with tryhards and brag about them mmr. And i hope they will include some sort of hero score too so people who can only play very few heroes will be noted too. Current MMR is fine, do you realise they will be using the same system for ranked? I, for once, think the base mmr in ranked (for your first game)should be your normal mmr I disagree with this because people will have a different approach to ranked games and normal games. Whatever you've done in an unranked setting should not reflect your ranked setting.
So people at the top of the current unranked ladder have to carry plebs (or lose because of them) to get back to ther curent level in ranked?
|
On December 07 2013 20:48 Bumblebee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 20:45 Unleashing wrote:On December 07 2013 20:32 Bumblebee wrote:
Also, it incentivises killstealing, taking the farm when you're not supposed to and stuff... It's just not good. :-( How does it do that? o_o Read the first post I made. It rates people's individual performance via an algorithm and that means you can go down in MMR even if you won a game. When it's ranked, people want to get higher MMR obviously. Since the determining factor is an algorithm to determine your performance, it definitely has something to do with KDA, XPM and GPM. :-)
And again, they did not mention KDA, EXP or GPM as the only thing they look at they don't even mention HOW this algorithm works and they state that by and far the primary factor is winning or losing. They could have something that prevents kill stealing from having any big impact.
I think you're putting far too much thought onto them mentioning that they also have individual performance as a small influence on your increase/decrease in rating.
|
|
|
On December 07 2013 20:51 Teton wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 20:49 Bumblebee wrote:On December 07 2013 20:46 Teton wrote:On December 07 2013 19:14 BurningSera wrote:On December 07 2013 18:25 TheEmulator wrote:On December 07 2013 18:15 Laurens wrote:On December 07 2013 17:28 TheEmulator wrote:
The most important thing (that is if ranked mmr is based off your normal mmr) is that a good player can't go play ranked on a new account and own the low ranks. Once he gets to 150 games he will be at a really high normal mmr, and will place higher initially when he enters ranked, instead of at the lower end.
edit: unless you purposefully lose 150 games in order to enter ranked at a low mmr. But then you're an idiot if you do that. Are you sure ranked MMR will be based on normal MMR? The article doesn't hint that it will. I think it will just be the 10 placement games and everyone starts with a clean slate. I'm not sure at all, that's why I said "that is if ranked mmr is based off your normal mmr". I think it will be that way, or at least in my mind it makes the most sense. But I have no idea I am getting this impression that everyone will have a clean start with ranked game because technically all the games we played are not ranked. Matches played in normal matchmaking do not impact your ranked matchmaking MMR, and vice versa.
When you first start using ranked matchmaking, you will enter a calibration phase of 10 games. During this time, your ranked MMR will not be visible. And that makes sense too, because what's the point if we used current mmr (which is a mess) as a baseline for ranked game's mmr :S I am just so damn happy that we will get solo mmr, too many people just purposely stack with tryhards and brag about them mmr. And i hope they will include some sort of hero score too so people who can only play very few heroes will be noted too. Current MMR is fine, do you realise they will be using the same system for ranked? I, for once, think the base mmr in ranked (for your first game)should be your normal mmr I disagree with this because people will have a different approach to ranked games and normal games. Whatever you've done in an unranked setting should not reflect your ranked setting. So people at the top of the current unranked ladder have to carry plebs (or lose because of them) to get back to ther curent level in ranked?
Yep. Just like in any other game.
|
On December 07 2013 20:27 Bumblebee wrote:
Arhhhhhhhh... I really love ranked matchmaking, it's like the number one thing I need in a game, but this is such a turn-off like.. I don't think there is any way you can use an algorithm to determine a players individual performance. What if the other team always buys the bait (and ultimate this guy die without kills and likely very little assists), but he did the exact job the team wanted him to do? It really doesn't make sense to rate people's individual performance in a win/loss scenario from an algorithm. That being said, this is going to be interesting.
I think you're reading too much into it, taking into account individual performance when the incertainty is high is simply a way to detect smurf accounts quickly (which valves MMR is quite good at doing). Once you stabilize if you do things that are detrimental to your team in order to improve your individual performance, then you will probably end up with a lower MMR than if you were playing to win.
|
On December 07 2013 20:27 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 19:24 NeThZOR wrote:
Finally the frustration of playing with lesser skilled teammates who feed the whole time will come to and end, hopefully. Why would it end? In roughly 50% of the games you're still going to have lesser skilled teammates who feed, or you're going to be the lesser skilled teammate who feeds. The matchmaking doesn't change, all it does is show you a number to look at.
i disagree slightly,
It's proven that ladder rankings, even if they have no REAL value, are valued by players, so losing a game will make you drop rating, thus making players more willing to cooperate to win the game. This in itself will result in the ranked ladder being ( maybe only very slightly but still ) less every man by himself type of game.
Will it be a huge difference? only time will tell, but i do think it will be noticable.
|
If I recall correctly, there's no inertia related to mmr, right?
Also, I swear, until it's out for a while speculating about how it's calculated leads to nothing good. If you are about to compare devs to incompetent pricks, then stop right there.
|
On December 07 2013 19:59 idonthinksobro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 18:45 r.Evo wrote:On December 07 2013 17:56 toemn wrote:Hope this comes before Christmas break. Gonna play ranked all day, post my score on every online forum there is and insult my friends for their low rating. No seriously. Praise Valve for ignoring all the ignorant people and doing what they think is best for the game. A week ago I got flame to death for this post: Two steps in order to make Dota a 10/10 game:
- Region Locking
- Seperate ranking ladder Such visionary. Wow. They didn't call it region locking explicitly but essentially that's what they are doing atleast for ranked mode. How exactly is region locking beneficial for a game? Unless you want to sell your shit multiple times (Blizzard) or your servers can't handle the population (Riot EU)? because it sucks to have people in your game you can't communicate with that choose wrong servers on purpose to ruin everyones experience.
That's why you can queue for specific languages.
If people want to "ruin your experience on purpose" they will find a way, no matter where they are from.
|
On December 07 2013 20:59 TechSc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 20:27 Talin wrote:On December 07 2013 19:24 NeThZOR wrote:
Finally the frustration of playing with lesser skilled teammates who feed the whole time will come to and end, hopefully. Why would it end? In roughly 50% of the games you're still going to have lesser skilled teammates who feed, or you're going to be the lesser skilled teammate who feeds. The matchmaking doesn't change, all it does is show you a number to look at. i disagree slightly, It's proven that ladder rankings, even if they have no REAL value, are valued by players, so losing a game will make you drop rating, thus making players more willing to cooperate to win the game. This in itself will result in the ranked ladder being ( maybe only very slightly but still ) less every man by himself type of game. Will it be a huge difference? only time will tell, but i do think it will be noticable.
Or most likely people will believe that they are in "ELO hell" and cannot count on their inferior teamates, therefore their only chance to win the game is to carry it on their own so that they can finally be recognized at their "true" skill level...
|
On December 07 2013 21:04 Jetaap wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 20:59 TechSc2 wrote:On December 07 2013 20:27 Talin wrote:On December 07 2013 19:24 NeThZOR wrote:
Finally the frustration of playing with lesser skilled teammates who feed the whole time will come to and end, hopefully. Why would it end? In roughly 50% of the games you're still going to have lesser skilled teammates who feed, or you're going to be the lesser skilled teammate who feeds. The matchmaking doesn't change, all it does is show you a number to look at. i disagree slightly, It's proven that ladder rankings, even if they have no REAL value, are valued by players, so losing a game will make you drop rating, thus making players more willing to cooperate to win the game. This in itself will result in the ranked ladder being ( maybe only very slightly but still ) less every man by himself type of game. Will it be a huge difference? only time will tell, but i do think it will be noticable. Or most likely people will believe that they are in "ELO hell" and cannot count on their inferior teamates, therefore their only chance to win the game is to carry it on their own so that they can finally be recognized at their "true" skill level...
If somebody is in 'ELO hell', I doubt they understand what winning means or takes, or that they care about winning at all.
|
There is no ELO hell it is just an illusion and that is what make it so effective.
|
Interesting. It will be interesting to see how this will affect the "team spirit". Will individuals be more toxic because a loss affects the rank more or will people be more willing to cooperate because that is how you actually win stuff. I think one thing is certain, hating on the captain in Captain's Mode or Captain's Draft will increase.
Lately my games have been really good, although I have lost the majority. I hope I can enjoy those losses the same way I did before when playing ranked matchmaking.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
