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Please keep the QQ to a minimum if you do not like this update. We are happy to hear your reasoning for not liking a ranked system, but no "OMG VOLVO WHY" posts. |
28104 Posts
On January 03 2014 08:54 cecek wrote:
Don't parties screw with that? Players in a party are always next to each other no matter if they're the first and second best player, for example.
Yes, that's the exception right now. Parties are just ordered how they are ordered in the lobby. So the blue player would just be the party creator, unless they are a 4 stack, then the 5th might be the blue player. The party will still be in order though.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
Well, I hope this doesn't become common knowledge. If I see "brown carry gg" in dota 2 I'm going to hurt someone irl.
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On January 03 2014 09:17 cecek wrote:
Well, I hope this doesn't become common knowledge. If I see "brown carry gg" in dota 2 I'm going to hurt someone irl.
Easy. Just never let brown get a carry.
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why do people play ranked when they afk farm the whole game with enigma, go refresher and use the blackhole at our own fountain to make sure we lose the game?
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On January 03 2014 09:23 Alur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 09:17 cecek wrote:
Well, I hope this doesn't become common knowledge. If I see "brown carry gg" in dota 2 I'm going to hurt someone irl. Easy. Just never let brown get a carry.
Good advice, gonna pick repick every single carry every game now! ; )
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On January 03 2014 09:31 TRAP[yoo] wrote:
why do people play ranked when they afk farm the whole game with enigma, go refresher and use the blackhole at our own fountain to make sure we lose the game?
same reason they rush a 6 minute force staff on bloodseeker to rice the jungle for 35 minutes
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On January 03 2014 09:31 TRAP[yoo] wrote:
why do people play ranked when they afk farm the whole game with enigma, go refresher and use the blackhole at our own fountain to make sure we lose the game?
Probably because they don't know what the QQ thread is.
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Hit my goal of 4k MMR 2 days ago and have since went on a 5 game losing streak  currently I'm at 3850~.
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There is no source that colors indicates MMR or something. Share if you have or don't spread false information. I am dealing with enough bullshit in the games already.
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Am i the only one noticing how more tryhard games have been since public ranking system?
And also, valve should do something about all this counter picking, every game the counter goes to 0 and no one have picked yet.
If no picks at 00 they should just be forced into a random with no extra gold. So annoying that your games depends on who's best at sniping the other teams pick.
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i havent seen yet a game where nobody hasnt picked at 00 ?
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On January 03 2014 10:53 Kanaz wrote:
Am i the only one noticing how more tryhard games have been since public ranking system?
And also, valve should do something about all this counter picking, every game the counter goes to 0 and no one have picked yet.
If no picks at 00 they should just be forced into a random with no extra gold. So annoying that your games depends on who's best at sniping the other teams pick.
I thought that was the point of ranked games. "Tryharding" for a better rank? You could always just play unranked if it bothers you so much, no one FORCED you to play ranked. And stop trying to make dota2 nazi germany please. Like before, if you dont like counterpicking dont play AP either.
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Just stating how annoying it is to have the most popular mode to be about waiting for the others to pick.
I'm all in for tryharding, but it shouldn't be dependant on who is most patient at picking screen.
Other modes than AP has so long que time, at least at my mmr.
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On January 03 2014 11:24 Kanaz wrote:
Just stating how annoying it is to have the most popular mode to be about waiting for the others to pick.
I'm all in for tryharding, but it shouldn't be dependant on who is most patient at picking screen.
Other modes than AP has so long que time, at least at my mmr.
I do agree that it is annoying to have people waiting to counterpick a lot of the time, but i dont feel that your suggestion is a good way to solve it however. But honestly there really is no true solution to this problem, and honestly i feel it is just a trend like when a new hero comes out, it is instalocked every game for the two weeks or so.
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On January 03 2014 08:59 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 07:52 -FmP- wrote:On January 03 2014 03:11 CNLL wrote:
Why are people trying to justify the matchmaking? I really dont get it.
It's obvious that the MMR ratings of many people are wrong, either because they got carried by parties in normal matchmaking or because they just abuse dumb/retard-proof heroes (in pubs) like slark/furion/etc.
Also they MMR range in games is just ridicolous. You can have a 1k MMR disparity in a game with blue being 5500 and the orange being 4400-4500, how's that even possible?
The system just wants you to lose sometimes and no matter how good you play u just cant win.
(5400MMR by playing random every game and repicking into supports if needed, this is the source) I can vouch for this...in non-party games blue/pink are very likely to be the highest mmr in the game..and once you get around the mid 5k range the disparity between blue-orange can be simply stupid.. Disparities happen because only a handful of people are in the 5k range, or because one of the 5k range players in your game stacked with someone well below his skill level.
Obviously. The issue here is that valve is so focused on shortening the queue time that disparities like this end up existing. 2 weeks ago a 4300 would never be matched with a 5.5k in solo queue; the 5.5k would simply wait in queue until enough relatively similar mmr players were found. Now it's pretty much a common occurrence to have a ~700-1000 rating disparity between top mmr and lowest mmr on the team when you're solo queueing at 5.3k+mmr. This makes for pretty shitty games.
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United States12280 Posts
On January 03 2014 13:42 -FmP- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 08:59 superstartran wrote:On January 03 2014 07:52 -FmP- wrote:On January 03 2014 03:11 CNLL wrote:
Why are people trying to justify the matchmaking? I really dont get it.
It's obvious that the MMR ratings of many people are wrong, either because they got carried by parties in normal matchmaking or because they just abuse dumb/retard-proof heroes (in pubs) like slark/furion/etc.
Also they MMR range in games is just ridicolous. You can have a 1k MMR disparity in a game with blue being 5500 and the orange being 4400-4500, how's that even possible?
The system just wants you to lose sometimes and no matter how good you play u just cant win.
(5400MMR by playing random every game and repicking into supports if needed, this is the source) I can vouch for this...in non-party games blue/pink are very likely to be the highest mmr in the game..and once you get around the mid 5k range the disparity between blue-orange can be simply stupid.. Disparities happen because only a handful of people are in the 5k range, or because one of the 5k range players in your game stacked with someone well below his skill level. Obviously. The issue here is that valve is so focused on shortening the queue time that disparities like this end up existing. 2 weeks ago a 4300 would never be matched with a 5.5k in solo queue; the 5.5k would simply wait in queue until enough relatively similar mmr players were found. Now it's pretty much a common occurrence to have a ~700-1000 rating disparity between top mmr and lowest mmr on the team when you're solo queueing at 5.3k+mmr. This makes for pretty shitty games.
How do you know what other people's ratings are if that information is hidden? Also, I queue with friends who are 1k above and below me which can create some lopsided (on paper) games, but that doesn't really "count" as far as matchmaking goes because we have to be treated as a stack.
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United States47024 Posts
Bear in mind that I believe the devs have mentioned before that they try to match the MMR spread of the two teams, not just the average rating. They try to avoid the case where you have 1 good player paired with 4 shit teammates against a team of 5 mediocre opponents.
The consequence of this is again that stacks screw things up, because if you have a stack with a wide MMR spread, it tries to match that spread on the other team as well, which accounts for the case Emulator mentioned last page with his friend queueing into Alia.
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On January 03 2014 13:53 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 13:42 -FmP- wrote:On January 03 2014 08:59 superstartran wrote:On January 03 2014 07:52 -FmP- wrote:On January 03 2014 03:11 CNLL wrote:
Why are people trying to justify the matchmaking? I really dont get it.
It's obvious that the MMR ratings of many people are wrong, either because they got carried by parties in normal matchmaking or because they just abuse dumb/retard-proof heroes (in pubs) like slark/furion/etc.
Also they MMR range in games is just ridicolous. You can have a 1k MMR disparity in a game with blue being 5500 and the orange being 4400-4500, how's that even possible?
The system just wants you to lose sometimes and no matter how good you play u just cant win.
(5400MMR by playing random every game and repicking into supports if needed, this is the source) I can vouch for this...in non-party games blue/pink are very likely to be the highest mmr in the game..and once you get around the mid 5k range the disparity between blue-orange can be simply stupid.. Disparities happen because only a handful of people are in the 5k range, or because one of the 5k range players in your game stacked with someone well below his skill level. Obviously. The issue here is that valve is so focused on shortening the queue time that disparities like this end up existing. 2 weeks ago a 4300 would never be matched with a 5.5k in solo queue; the 5.5k would simply wait in queue until enough relatively similar mmr players were found. Now it's pretty much a common occurrence to have a ~700-1000 rating disparity between top mmr and lowest mmr on the team when you're solo queueing at 5.3k+mmr. This makes for pretty shitty games. How do you know what other people's ratings are if that information is hidden? Also, I queue with friends who are 1k above and below me which can create some lopsided (on paper) games, but that doesn't really "count" as far as matchmaking goes because we have to be treated as a stack.
But if I theory craft enough about other peoples rank, then I can explain away all my losses without ever having to admit I made a mistake? Don't you see how brilliant it is?
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United States47024 Posts
Sort of found what I was looking for: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=98284&p=663957#post663957
Here Fletcher gives an example of how matchmaking tries to match the MMR spread in the game on the two teams, not just average MMR. He also says it explicitly somewhere else in the One Sided Matchmaking thread, but I can't be bothered to comb 126 pages again to find it. Meh.
This essentially debunks the ludicrous idea that matchmaking tries to handicap good players with shit players. It's trying to match the spreads as well. So it should never end up giving a game where one team has a good player with teammates way worse than him, and the other team has a few people in the middle. If you have a shit teammate, then it means there's someone on the other team that's equally good as you given an equally shit teammate.
And again, those wide spreads only originate in the first place from a stack with a wide spread in MMR needing to be balanced by a similar spread on the other team. If you're seeing a 5k+ rating player being paired with a 4.1k rating player, it means the other team has a 5k+ rating player stacking with a 4.1k rating player, and because those kinds of stacks are rare, it can't match them against an equivalent stack so it has to pull in a 4.1k rating solo to make the game fair.
Obviously a 5k rating player stacking with his 4.1k friend will make the 4.1k better than a 5k rating player and a 4.1k solo, but that's what having separate solo and party MMR is supposed to help with. If those two stack together enough for it to be consistently problematic, then it will raise the 4.1k MMR player's party MMR enough to appropriately handicap him for being carried by his friend. It just takes time.
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United States600 Posts
On January 03 2014 10:29 Laserist wrote:
There is no source that colors indicates MMR or something. Share if you have or don't spread false information. I am dealing with enough bullshit in the games already.
Isn't true though? If you watch a high rated solo queue stream, they are always the blue or pink player. Just don't let brown or oj go mid and you're golden.
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EPT
