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On February 28 2014 06:53 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 06:18 Roman666 wrote:On February 28 2014 06:08 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On February 28 2014 05:56 Sub40APM wrote:On February 28 2014 05:52 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On February 28 2014 05:42 Sub40APM wrote:On February 28 2014 05:40 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On February 28 2014 05:37 Sub40APM wrote:On February 28 2014 05:29 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On February 28 2014 05:15 farvacola wrote:
[quote]
This post would be hilarious if it didn't represent actual views. Let the comfort that comes with blaming the US for everything ease you into a 21st century in which actual knowledge simply doesn't matter. tbh our revolution goes almost the same way as Serbian, just almost totally equal scenario, which kinda strange for me, but it's not the case. I'm tired of those clashed between East and Russia. One more thing, I wish I could see how Cheerio gonna explain to my dad why revolution is good and needed to be right now! Just 1 year before elections. Not sure how many teeth Cheerio could loose What if Cheerio's dad lost his job because Yanukovich's friends in the tax police closed it down? Does he get to break your teeth? What IF? I'm talking about real things happening, not about what if. By the way, why do u thing that I would prove him something like he does during 80+ pages in this topic? Well, its "IF" because he isnt on here crying about it. But lets say he started crying about it would it be fair? Your dad can break his teeth and his dad will break yours. Everyone wins right! Once again, u're talking into a perspective. U seems like don't want to understand that I wish everyone could wait until elections, not by doig a revolution, not by complete breaking economical situation. The breaking of the economic situation was going to happen because Yanukovich, not because of the revolution. The only question that was left is to begin economic reforms now or to be like the Russian industry and become depended completely on oil and gas exports. Now I'm starting to think that I wish Yanukovich could not that coward, that he could let Berkut shoot in riots when some of them attempts to throw a cocktail or something else, I don't mind if there could be more victims from riots side.
And I don't mind to leave separately from Western Ukraine, let them strike for 100 years long on their side, without donations, without production, without anything, Yep, and the protesters are the fascists. You realize Russians dont want another 20 million of poor people with useless industries they support because they need the gas pipelines? Good luck to you, the coming economic reforms in the East will be tough. Maybe you can move to Moscow, I hear they are really welcoming to laborers from ex-Soviet countries. The protesters are toys, simply toys, not tell me about bright future, about uncorrupted politicians came to power, yes-yes, ofc. Russia at least has some cash, they are able to pud 100 billions on Olympic games, which is ridiculous sum, and u do think they won't add close in temrs of culture people, u think they won't help? Having so much common in past means a lot. Once a year i'm in Moscow. And u know where people from western parts of Ukraine goes to earn some cash? Right, they moves in Russia. Where did Yanukovich took his credit? In Russia. Current government got no souces to get more cash, the country economicly f*cked, but yes, we do belive in a bright future, bla-bla-bla... How can you be so egocentric when there is a revolution in your country is mindblowing. Calling for more casualties because your sorry ass can't handle the changes is beyond any logic. You said you are 24 and as you present it, you still live off your father salary. At that age people have their own jobs, you know? Perhaps you should try to find one without bribing anyone and see how it goes. Because this is what these people whose lives you are so indifferent with fighting for. To live like a decent human beings, not like beggars. he is 24? And still dreams of his father beating somebody up for him? Wow. Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 06:48 zeo wrote:On February 28 2014 06:39 Cheerio wrote:On February 28 2014 06:10 Greem wrote:On February 28 2014 06:04 Cheerio wrote:On February 28 2014 05:52 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On February 28 2014 05:42 Sub40APM wrote:On February 28 2014 05:40 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On February 28 2014 05:37 Sub40APM wrote:On February 28 2014 05:29 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
[quote]
tbh our revolution goes almost the same way as Serbian, just almost totally equal scenario, which kinda strange for me, but it's not the case. I'm tired of those clashed between East and Russia.
One more thing, I wish I could see how Cheerio gonna explain to my dad why revolution is good and needed to be right now! Just 1 year before elections. Not sure how many teeth Cheerio could loose
What if Cheerio's dad lost his job because Yanukovich's friends in the tax police closed it down? Does he get to break your teeth? What IF? I'm talking about real things happening, not about what if. By the way, why do u thing that I would prove him something like he does during 80+ pages in this topic? Well, its "IF" because he isnt on here crying about it. But lets say he started crying about it would it be fair? Your dad can break his teeth and his dad will break yours. Everyone wins right! Once again, u're talking into a perspective. U seems like don't want to understand that I wish everyone could wait until elections, not by doig a revolution, not by complete breaking economical situation. Now I'm starting to think that I wish Yanukovich could not that coward, that he could let Berkut shoot in riots when some of them attempts to throw a cocktail or something else, I don't mind if there could be more victims from riots side. And I don't mind to leave separately from Western Ukraine, let them strike for 100 years long on their side, without donations, without production, without anything, I'm fine to leave in a country without "Right Sector". I'm fine to be close to Russia, that's how I changed my mind during last few days, just tired! Tired of what? What could have possibly tire you so much that you start wishing for more casualties? Its a result of polarization , hes forced to choose side . People with extreme opinion like you force situations like this. People are divided, and thats never good, they cannot agree on anything, even the most basic stuff, because they minds are looking only for differences, because they "side" demand it to prove the point of being "right". what is so extreme about my position/opinion? Didn't you say earlier in the thread (like 2 weeks ago or something) that you were out the whole day supplying the rioters with gasoline? quote?
On January 29 2014 06:21 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 02:48 xM(Z wrote:On January 29 2014 02:35 Gorsameth wrote:
How is the EU even supporting the protests?
Are they airdropping food for the protesters?
Are they teaches them how to make a molotov?
This isn't government's arming rebels. Its a civil protest ffs. all you need is money, srsly. (and some agitators) do you realy think the protesters are paying for the molotovs from their salaries?. You dont pay for molotovs, you make them up yourself. And if you want to know whether people are donating on a large scale for the needs of EuroMaidan than yes they do, I'm one of them. I'm not bringing petrol in canisters for molotovs but there were many who did, many of those for their own money.
I was thinking about this post. Seems I misread it a month ago. My bad.
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On February 28 2014 07:10 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 07:06 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On February 28 2014 07:00 Roman666 wrote:On February 28 2014 06:55 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On February 28 2014 06:49 Roman666 wrote:On February 28 2014 06:42 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On February 28 2014 06:29 Roman666 wrote:On February 28 2014 06:25 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On February 28 2014 06:18 Roman666 wrote:On February 28 2014 06:08 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
[quote]
The protesters are toys, simply toys, not tell me about bright future, about uncorrupted politicians came to power, yes-yes, ofc. Russia at least has some cash, they are able to pud 100 billions on Olympic games, which is ridiculous sum, and u do think they won't add close in temrs of culture people, u think they won't help? Having so much common in past means a lot. Once a year i'm in Moscow. And u know where people from western parts of Ukraine goes to earn some cash? Right, they moves in Russia. Where did Yanukovich took his credit? In Russia. Current government got no souces to get more cash, the country economicly f*cked, but yes, we do belive in a bright future, bla-bla-bla... How can you be so egocentric when there is a revolution in your country is mindblowing. Calling for more casualties because your sorry ass can't handle the changes is beyond any logic. You said you are 24 and as you present it, you still live off your father salary. At that age people have their own jobs, you know? Perhaps you should try to find one without bribing anyone and see how it goes. Because this is what these people whose lives you are so indifferent with fighting for. To live like a decent human beings, not like beggars. When did I told that I'm living for my dads salary? U've got wonderful imagination. I do have a job, my mom also got a job, my dad potentially might loose a job aswell as 3/4 of F.C. Metalist crew due to lack of finances, which revolution caused. Second thing, I don't want to live back to back with idiots that able to capture city administration easily, that throwing a cocktails at police, that crushing streets and monuments with symbols 14/88 on their shields. I drew a bad conclusion from your previous posts, my bad, sorry. Ask yourself an honest question. Do you seriously believe that these 14/88 idiots are the majority of the people that are in bad shape? Do you honestly think that they are the only ones that live badly and only ones that have reason to protest? There is also a good people amoung of riots, yes, I don't know about how many of them stays at Maidan, no one gonna tell u that. I asked myself, and I belive in things like: 1) If I'm striking by cyvil ways, wtihout cocktails and stones, just simply shouting some slogans and not trying to capture a governmental building, and I'm staning next to the same guys as me - i'm normal oppositioneer which is fine. 2) If I'm arming in shields with 14/88 marks in masks with clubs and cocktails - i'm an extremist, I have to be jailed or maybe even killed by police while attempting to throw a cocktail or while doing some other illeagal staff. 3) If I'm standing right next to a guy I describe in section 2, and not attempting to prevent his intentions, than I'm "a parthner" and I also should be jailed for reason I see clear difference between this 3 groups I agree with what you said, just you can not bring down the problem to the riot itself. You know, people rioted for a reason and these were not only fascists. Also 3rd group is rather hard to isolate during riots, unless you want to become target of an attack. I saw picture of Klitschko trying to do exactly what you wrote and he got sprayed with fire extinguisher by his rioting "partner". That's what I can't realise, Klitschko positioning himselft as one of the oppositions leader, and protestors simply don't respect him, his attempts and so on. It means riots are completely uncontrolled, and don't u think, is it scary? You need to distinguish between parliamentary opposition with so-so presence on Maidan and the street opposition which will hold no one as their leader, unless he is one of their own, fighting along them. In fact, no one can control an angry riot, you can try to reason with it, but not control it. It's too late, everything is out of control by far. But the worst still might be ahead. Financial default is simple example :/ Ofc its out of control. Thats what happens when your government is to busy with enriching themselves to care about there country for many many years. The way out of that hole will always be painful but shutting your ear and pretending there is no problem doesnt help. If its not you failing the pain it will be your children or your grandchildren ect. At some point it will all blow up and the longer you wait with fixing it the worse the pain will be when it does go wrong. And make no mistake, it will always go wrong. Massive corruption like this doesnt fix itself.
The public debt after Yanukovich took over (2010) encreased by 100%, and in 2012 it was already 35% of GDP. There was not way the current situation could be postponed till the next generation.
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On January 29 2014 06:21 Cheerio wrote:
And if you want to know whether people are donating on a large scale for the needs of EuroMaidan than yes they do, I'm one of them. I'm not bringing petrol in canisters for molotovs but there were many who did, many of those for their own money.
On February 28 2014 07:24 Cheerio wrote:
The public debt after Yanukovich took over (2010) encreased by 100%, and in 2012 it was already 35% of GDP. There was not way the current situation could be postponed till the next generation.
Yeah, Yanukovich's politics were very far from optimal. Since you supported radical parts of Maidan, do you think the authority taken with violence was the best solution?
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http://www.interpretermag.com/russian-government-newspaper-the-ukrainian-president-could-be-hidden-by-americans/
Where is Viktor Yanukovych? This is the question intelligence services of many countries, hundreds of politicians and experts, thousands of stakeholders in Kiev and millions of Ukrainians tried to answer all Monday. After all, he could not just evaporate. Still, a very recognizable politician. And here quite a logical question comes to mind: could he be hidden by those who are very good at covering their tracks? That is, Americans.
On February 21, after many hours of talks in Kiev between the President of Ukraine and the opposition with the participation of the three Foreign Ministers of Germany, France and Poland, many found it strange how easily Yanukovych threw the white flag and signed the agreement, which quite obviously would be honored by no one but himself. It was obvious that the main “guarantors” of the document were not the European diplomats, but their counterparts from across the ocean.
Yanukovych would definitely continue to resist, if he hadn’t received sufficiently strong safety guarantees for himself, his family and his entourage. Who in the current situation in Ukraine could give such guarantees? Only Washington, which, as recent events in Kiev showed, is the “gray cardinal” of Maidan.
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I just went through a couple of articles on that page, how reliable is it as a source?
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On February 28 2014 07:40 Sub40APM wrote:http://www.interpretermag.com/russian-government-newspaper-the-ukrainian-president-could-be-hidden-by-americans/Show nested quote +Where is Viktor Yanukovych? This is the question intelligence services of many countries, hundreds of politicians and experts, thousands of stakeholders in Kiev and millions of Ukrainians tried to answer all Monday. After all, he could not just evaporate. Still, a very recognizable politician. And here quite a logical question comes to mind: could he be hidden by those who are very good at covering their tracks? That is, Americans.
On February 21, after many hours of talks in Kiev between the President of Ukraine and the opposition with the participation of the three Foreign Ministers of Germany, France and Poland, many found it strange how easily Yanukovych threw the white flag and signed the agreement, which quite obviously would be honored by no one but himself. It was obvious that the main “guarantors” of the document were not the European diplomats, but their counterparts from across the ocean.
Yanukovych would definitely continue to resist, if he hadn’t received sufficiently strong safety guarantees for himself, his family and his entourage. Who in the current situation in Ukraine could give such guarantees? Only Washington, which, as recent events in Kiev showed, is the “gray cardinal” of Maidan.
...
Just no
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On February 28 2014 07:40 Sub40APM wrote:http://www.interpretermag.com/russian-government-newspaper-the-ukrainian-president-could-be-hidden-by-americans/Show nested quote +Where is Viktor Yanukovych? This is the question intelligence services of many countries, hundreds of politicians and experts, thousands of stakeholders in Kiev and millions of Ukrainians tried to answer all Monday. After all, he could not just evaporate. Still, a very recognizable politician. And here quite a logical question comes to mind: could he be hidden by those who are very good at covering their tracks? That is, Americans.
On February 21, after many hours of talks in Kiev between the President of Ukraine and the opposition with the participation of the three Foreign Ministers of Germany, France and Poland, many found it strange how easily Yanukovych threw the white flag and signed the agreement, which quite obviously would be honored by no one but himself. It was obvious that the main “guarantors” of the document were not the European diplomats, but their counterparts from across the ocean.
Yanukovych would definitely continue to resist, if he hadn’t received sufficiently strong safety guarantees for himself, his family and his entourage. Who in the current situation in Ukraine could give such guarantees? Only Washington, which, as recent events in Kiev showed, is the “gray cardinal” of Maidan.
Lol. That is one of the stranges interpretations of events I have seen and one of the most obscure conspiracy theories.
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On February 28 2014 07:50 m4ini wrote:
I just went through a couple of articles on that page, how reliable is it as a source?
well, its the english translation of an article in Rosiskaya Gazeta which is this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossiyskaya_Gazeta
the original russian language can be found in the english translation or at this url: http://www.rg.ru/2014/02/24/yanukovich-site.html
Obviously 3 days ago the writer couldnt foresee that today Lavrov would declare Yankovich the president...but the irony is delicious. ONLY THE SNEAKY AMERICANS COULD SNEAK HIM AWAY...oh...hes in russia? and we are backing him? awkward.
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On February 28 2014 07:55 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 07:50 m4ini wrote:
I just went through a couple of articles on that page, how reliable is it as a source? well, its the english translation of an article in Rosiskaya Gazeta which is this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossiyskaya_Gazetathe original russian language can be found in the english translation or at this url: http://www.rg.ru/2014/02/24/yanukovich-site.htmlObviously 3 days ago the writer couldnt foresee that today Lavrov would declare Yankovich the president...but the irony is delicious. ONLY THE SNEAKY AMERICANS COULD SNEAK HIM AWAY...oh...hes in russia? and we are backing him? awkward.
Yeah, i saw too late what this actually was, my bad.
Mindblowing. I mean, obviously, western medias are biased as well, but that's kinda a new level.
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On February 28 2014 07:55 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 07:50 m4ini wrote:
I just went through a couple of articles on that page, how reliable is it as a source? well, its the english translation of an article in Rosiskaya Gazeta which is this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossiyskaya_Gazetathe original russian language can be found in the english translation or at this url: http://www.rg.ru/2014/02/24/yanukovich-site.htmlObviously 3 days ago the writer couldnt foresee that today Lavrov would declare Yankovich the president...but the irony is delicious. ONLY THE SNEAKY AMERICANS COULD SNEAK HIM AWAY...oh...hes in russia? and we are backing him? awkward.
State owned Russian media not knowing about Yanukovych being in Russia only proves the point that the media is not controlled by the Kremlin, otherwise they would have known and not made a blunder. Don't really see the point you are trying to make. Media on both sides have agendas, this newspaper is just telling the public what it wants to hear so that it can sell more newspapers.
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On February 28 2014 08:19 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 07:55 Sub40APM wrote:On February 28 2014 07:50 m4ini wrote:
I just went through a couple of articles on that page, how reliable is it as a source? well, its the english translation of an article in Rosiskaya Gazeta which is this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossiyskaya_Gazetathe original russian language can be found in the english translation or at this url: http://www.rg.ru/2014/02/24/yanukovich-site.htmlObviously 3 days ago the writer couldnt foresee that today Lavrov would declare Yankovich the president...but the irony is delicious. ONLY THE SNEAKY AMERICANS COULD SNEAK HIM AWAY...oh...hes in russia? and we are backing him? awkward. State owned Russian media not knowing about Yanukovych being in Russia only proves the point that the media is not controlled by the Kremlin, otherwise they would have known and not made a blunder. Don't really see the point you are trying to make. Media on both sides have agendas, this newspaper is just telling the public what it wants to hear so that it can sell more newspapers. Yes. This is the only reasonable interpretation.
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On February 28 2014 07:39 AleXoundOS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 06:21 Cheerio wrote:
And if you want to know whether people are donating on a large scale for the needs of EuroMaidan than yes they do, I'm one of them. I'm not bringing petrol in canisters for molotovs but there were many who did, many of those for their own money. Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 07:24 Cheerio wrote:
The public debt after Yanukovich took over (2010) encreased by 100%, and in 2012 it was already 35% of GDP. There was not way the current situation could be postponed till the next generation. Yeah, Yanukovich's politics were very far from optimal. Since you supported radical parts of Maidan, do you think the authority taken with violence was the best solution?
No. Clearly the best solution was when students started gathering on Maidan for Yanukovich to understand the horrors of the situation he got Ukraine in, and to return the $12 billion his Family has stolen to the state budget, to receive the pardon from the new authorities, and to go to the monastery and pray for his sins for the rest of his days.
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On February 28 2014 08:19 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 07:55 Sub40APM wrote:On February 28 2014 07:50 m4ini wrote:
I just went through a couple of articles on that page, how reliable is it as a source? well, its the english translation of an article in Rosiskaya Gazeta which is this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossiyskaya_Gazetathe original russian language can be found in the english translation or at this url: http://www.rg.ru/2014/02/24/yanukovich-site.htmlObviously 3 days ago the writer couldnt foresee that today Lavrov would declare Yankovich the president...but the irony is delicious. ONLY THE SNEAKY AMERICANS COULD SNEAK HIM AWAY...oh...hes in russia? and we are backing him? awkward. State owned Russian media not knowing about Yanukovych being in Russia only proves the point that the media is not controlled by the Kremlin, otherwise they would have known and not made a blunder. Don't really see the point you are trying to make. Media on both sides have agendas, this newspaper is just telling the public what it wants to hear so that it can sell more newspapers.
lol, zeo can find positives in basically anything. Good job.
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On February 28 2014 08:19 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 07:55 Sub40APM wrote:On February 28 2014 07:50 m4ini wrote:
I just went through a couple of articles on that page, how reliable is it as a source? well, its the english translation of an article in Rosiskaya Gazeta which is this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossiyskaya_Gazetathe original russian language can be found in the english translation or at this url: http://www.rg.ru/2014/02/24/yanukovich-site.htmlObviously 3 days ago the writer couldnt foresee that today Lavrov would declare Yankovich the president...but the irony is delicious. ONLY THE SNEAKY AMERICANS COULD SNEAK HIM AWAY...oh...hes in russia? and we are backing him? awkward. State owned Russian media not knowing about Yanukovych being in Russia only proves the point that the media is not controlled by the Kremlin, otherwise they would have known and not made a blunder. Don't really see the point you are trying to make. Media on both sides have agendas, this newspaper is just telling the public what it wants to hear so that it can sell more newspapers.
Or they're lying and spreading disinformation; which, given Russia's history, and indeed the history of every nation everywhere, is very plausible.
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On February 28 2014 07:40 Sub40APM wrote:http://www.interpretermag.com/russian-government-newspaper-the-ukrainian-president-could-be-hidden-by-americans/Show nested quote +Where is Viktor Yanukovych? This is the question intelligence services of many countries, hundreds of politicians and experts, thousands of stakeholders in Kiev and millions of Ukrainians tried to answer all Monday. After all, he could not just evaporate. Still, a very recognizable politician. And here quite a logical question comes to mind: could he be hidden by those who are very good at covering their tracks? That is, Americans.
On February 21, after many hours of talks in Kiev between the President of Ukraine and the opposition with the participation of the three Foreign Ministers of Germany, France and Poland, many found it strange how easily Yanukovych threw the white flag and signed the agreement, which quite obviously would be honored by no one but himself. It was obvious that the main “guarantors” of the document were not the European diplomats, but their counterparts from across the ocean.
Yanukovych would definitely continue to resist, if he hadn’t received sufficiently strong safety guarantees for himself, his family and his entourage. Who in the current situation in Ukraine could give such guarantees? Only Washington, which, as recent events in Kiev showed, is the “gray cardinal” of Maidan.
Thank you for this, it helps to put some of the other posts in this thread into perspective. 
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Russians are handling this situation very poorly. Reactions of their foreign ministry and recent army movements make me think that they are completely clueless. It surprises me because usually they seem (or at least pretend) to be well prepared and self-confident in their foreign policy.
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On February 28 2014 08:58 Sent. wrote:
Russians are handling this situation very poorly. Reactions of their foreign ministry and recent army movements make me think that they are completely clueless. It surprises me because usually they seem (or at least pretend) to be well prepared and self-confident in their foreign policy.
They seem to be trying to set Yanukovych up as a prophet. He can sit there in Russia and criticise the current government and proclaim how badly they are doing. Unfortunately for Russia I think even people in the east are so done with the crook that he will be unable to return to Ukraine either way and the people he embrace will be tainted.
What Russia is doing with their military at the moment is mostly symbolic. I don't think Putin has enough of a deathwish to actually attack Ukraine. What is happening behind the scenes is more important. Putin is negotiating with Obama at some lower levels. What agreement they can reach is hard to say. I think Russia has a lot of ammunition in terms of economic measures, but almost no ammunition in terms of politics. They completely lack upcoming realistic candidates they can influence in Ukraine at the moment with Svoboda and to some degree Klitchko and fatherland party being nationalists. Keeping Yanukovych as their posterboy is risky, but do they have a choice at the moment if they want someone they can "cooperate" with?
But yeah I think it would be advantageous for Russia to step back from Ukraine politically/militarily and let them be for the time being. When Ukraines population inevitably gets economic hardship from the reforms, they will get so much more leverage to push other candidates. They just have to be willing to let Yanukovych disappear from the political scene.
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Didn't two independent sources already confirm that yanukovich was in moscow at some sanitorium?
Edit: Nvm me :p.
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EPT
