On February 28 2014 20:46 ImFromPortugal wrote: 11:03: There is an unconfirmed Ukrainian media report that eight Russian military helicopters have arrived in Sevastopol from Russia itself.
It is confirmed. It was confirmed by the leader of Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People. And now there's even video:
On February 28 2014 21:05 radiatoren wrote: ...the people doing this are clearly Russian and military.
Crimea doesn't need any additional military yet, they have their own police, their own anti-maidan activists, and their own military troops. People talking in Russian do not belong to Russia automatically. And Crimea will solve it's problems independently with referendum that will be held at the same day as elections in Kiev.
Except it was reported by news sources all over the world and even confirmed by locals. Those are Russian soldiers.
The question will be, as stated earlier, if Russia would even accept a referendum. It would be a terrible example for them, if then also Chechnya and other separatist parts of the country would ask for a referendum. And even the west is massively struggling with such ideas of ' voting for independence'. Spain and the UK have the problem themselves with some parts of the country seeking for independence by vote... Similarly, out 5th and currently ignored veto power in the UN, China, surely does not want independence votes to become acceptable.
So yeah... Even though it may be an opportunity for Russia... The prize is quite high, and I'm not sure, they want to make that example, destabilizing almost the entire world.
On February 28 2014 21:05 radiatoren wrote: ...the people doing this are clearly Russian and military.
Crimea doesn't need any additional military yet, they have their own police, their own anti-maidan activists, and their own military troops. People talking in Russian do not belong to Russia automatically. And Crimea will solve it's problems independently with referendum that will be held at the same day as elections in Kiev.
After seeing that video, i have to agree. It's not "pro-russian-militia", but russia going full retard.
Just because i'm not entirely sure, sending military transports into a country without permission, what repercussions could that have?
On February 28 2014 21:05 radiatoren wrote: ...the people doing this are clearly Russian and military.
Crimea doesn't need any additional military yet, they have their own police, their own anti-maidan activists, and their own military troops. People talking in Russian do not belong to Russia automatically. And Crimea will solve it's problems independently with referendum that will be held at the same day as elections in Kiev.
After seeing that video, i have to agree. It's not "pro-russian-militia", but russia going full retard.
Just because i'm not entirely sure, sending military transports into a country without permission, what repercussions could that have?
unless NATO will get their shit together and actually do something, NONE.
On February 28 2014 21:05 radiatoren wrote: ...the people doing this are clearly Russian and military.
Crimea doesn't need any additional military yet, they have their own police, their own anti-maidan activists, and their own military troops. People talking in Russian do not belong to Russia automatically. And Crimea will solve it's problems independently with referendum that will be held at the same day as elections in Kiev.
After seeing that video, i have to agree. It's not "pro-russian-militia", but russia going full retard.
Just because i'm not entirely sure, sending military transports into a country without permission, what repercussions could that have?
unless NATO will get their shit together and actually do something, NONE.
Let me rephrase the question. If china sends 8 military transporthelos into the US without permission, what repercussions would that have?
On February 28 2014 21:05 radiatoren wrote: ...the people doing this are clearly Russian and military.
Crimea doesn't need any additional military yet, they have their own police, their own anti-maidan activists, and their own military troops. People talking in Russian do not belong to Russia automatically. And Crimea will solve it's problems independently with referendum that will be held at the same day as elections in Kiev.
After seeing that video, i have to agree. It's not "pro-russian-militia", but russia going full retard.
Just because i'm not entirely sure, sending military transports into a country without permission, what repercussions could that have?
unless NATO will get their shit together and actually do something, NONE.
Let me rephrase the question. If china sends 8 military transporthelos into the US without permission, what repercussions would that have?
Point being, russia is actively waging war.
Well, it is a common practice in this world to do bombing and drone raids on foreign soil without permission...
On February 28 2014 21:05 radiatoren wrote: ...the people doing this are clearly Russian and military.
Crimea doesn't need any additional military yet, they have their own police, their own anti-maidan activists, and their own military troops. People talking in Russian do not belong to Russia automatically. And Crimea will solve it's problems independently with referendum that will be held at the same day as elections in Kiev.
After seeing that video, i have to agree. It's not "pro-russian-militia", but russia going full retard.
Just because i'm not entirely sure, sending military transports into a country without permission, what repercussions could that have?
unless NATO will get their shit together and actually do something, NONE.
Let me rephrase the question. If china sends 8 military transporthelos into the US without permission, what repercussions would that have?
Point being, russia is actively waging war.
Well, it is a common practice in this world to do bombing and drone raids on foreign soil without permission...
Just because the US does it, doesn't make it less retarded. It just puts the US on the same level as russia.
edit: Janukowitsch is in rostow holding a press conference. Funny, i was totally convinced he was in washington, drinking tea with obama.
On February 28 2014 21:45 mahrgell wrote: The question will be, as stated earlier, if Russia would even accept a referendum. It would be a terrible example for them, if then also Chechnya and other separatist parts of the country would ask for a referendum. And even the west is massively struggling with such ideas of ' voting for independence'. Spain and the UK have the problem themselves with some parts of the country seeking for independence by vote... Similarly, out 5th and currently ignored veto power in the UN, China, surely does not want independence votes to become acceptable.
So yeah... Even though it may be an opportunity for Russia... The prize is quite high, and I'm not sure, they want to make that example, destabilizing almost the entire world.
It was always an autonomous republic of Crimea, and they have official rights to have referendums with their own Verkhovna Rada of Crimea and Council of Ministers of Crimea without separation.
On February 28 2014 21:05 radiatoren wrote: ...the people doing this are clearly Russian and military.
Crimea doesn't need any additional military yet, they have their own police, their own anti-maidan activists, and their own military troops. People talking in Russian do not belong to Russia automatically. And Crimea will solve it's problems independently with referendum that will be held at the same day as elections in Kiev.
After seeing that video, i have to agree. It's not "pro-russian-militia", but russia going full retard.
Just because i'm not entirely sure, sending military transports into a country without permission, what repercussions could that have?
unless NATO will get their shit together and actually do something, NONE.
Let me rephrase the question. If china sends 8 military transporthelos into the US without permission, what repercussions would that have?
Point being, russia is actively waging war.
Well, it is a common practice in this world to do bombing and drone raids on foreign soil without permission...
Just because the US does it, doesn't make it less retarded. It just puts the US on the same level as russia.
Never said it is not retarded.
But who has the power to speak/act against it, who is not doing it themselves?
On February 28 2014 20:46 ImFromPortugal wrote: 11:03: There is an unconfirmed Ukrainian media report that eight Russian military helicopters have arrived in Sevastopol from Russia itself.
On February 28 2014 21:05 radiatoren wrote: ...the people doing this are clearly Russian and military.
Crimea doesn't need any additional military yet, they have their own police, their own anti-maidan activists, and their own military troops. People talking in Russian do not belong to Russia automatically. And Crimea will solve it's problems independently with referendum that will be held at the same day as elections in Kiev.
Except it was reported by news sources all over the world and even confirmed by locals. Those are Russian soldiers.
Here, I just made favarcola's post for him. He can thank me later
On February 28 2014 02:53 farvacola wrote: And I thought *insert random quasi-intellectual here* had it bad. Again, perhaps this is news to those who admire McCain or despise Eastern interests, youtube videos, no matter how many you toss out there, do an incredibly poor job of vetting a given opinion. In fact, given the manner in which internet debates tend to develop, it should be obvious that relying on videos with no certifiable context weakens a given opinion instead of strengthening it. I mean, come on, practically every poster in this thread who suggests that the Russians are categorically evil destroyers attempts to prove so in the same manner, that being Ukrainian titled youtube videos of spurious source history and pathetic rhetoric that deliberately ignores the possibility that the masses of Crimean protestors are good people fighting for their rights. None of that stands up unless you already believe that practically everything from the East is made-up and that everything from the West is God-given truth. By immediately suggesting that one can know the true identity of random helicopters on a field, you give those normal actions far more power and influence than they deserve; doing so also reeks of an agenda so bad that it is truly alarming how little posters like the one above (MyrMindservant) seem to notice the gaps in their logic.
On February 28 2014 21:05 radiatoren wrote: ...the people doing this are clearly Russian and military.
Crimea doesn't need any additional military yet, they have their own police, their own anti-maidan activists, and their own military troops. People talking in Russian do not belong to Russia automatically. And Crimea will solve it's problems independently with referendum that will be held at the same day as elections in Kiev.
After seeing that video, i have to agree. It's not "pro-russian-militia", but russia going full retard.
Just because i'm not entirely sure, sending military transports into a country without permission, what repercussions could that have?
unless NATO will get their shit together and actually do something, NONE.
Let me rephrase the question. If china sends 8 military transporthelos into the US without permission, what repercussions would that have?
Point being, russia is actively waging war.
Well, it is a common practice in this world to do bombing and drone raids on foreign soil without permission...
Just because the US does it, doesn't make it less retarded. It just puts the US on the same level as russia.
Never said it is not retarded.
But who has the power to speak/act against it, who is not doing it themselves?
I almost said china.
edit
Just to make sure i understood correctly - you denying the video, zeo?
On February 28 2014 21:05 radiatoren wrote: ...the people doing this are clearly Russian and military.
Crimea doesn't need any additional military yet, they have their own police, their own anti-maidan activists, and their own military troops. People talking in Russian do not belong to Russia automatically. And Crimea will solve it's problems independently with referendum that will be held at the same day as elections in Kiev.
After seeing that video, i have to agree. It's not "pro-russian-militia", but russia going full retard.
Just because i'm not entirely sure, sending military transports into a country without permission, what repercussions could that have?
unless NATO will get their shit together and actually do something, NONE.
Let me rephrase the question. If china sends 8 military transporthelos into the US without permission, what repercussions would that have?
Point being, russia is actively waging war.
Well, it is a common practice in this world to do bombing and drone raids on foreign soil without permission...
Just because the US does it, doesn't make it less retarded. It just puts the US on the same level as russia.
Never said it is not retarded.
But who has the power to speak/act against it, who is not doing it themselves?
I almost said china.
edit
Just to make sure i understood correctly - you denying the video, zeo?
Saying every video that fits my point of view is 100% correct and acceptable, yet categorically stating that every video that I don't like is unacceptable/not serious evidence/unsubstantial/makes the other side of the discussion discredited... would of course make me a hypocrite
The helicopters may or may not be flying over Crimea, the fact that a video was posted doesn't mean they aren't.
"He said the current parliament was "illegitimate", and described those who drove him from power as "young neo-fascist thugs" representing only a minority of Ukrainians."
On February 28 2014 00:55 darkness wrote: And just to keep people's mouth shut, pro-Russian politicians just tell you they were in prison because of <insert random reason here> (e.g. fascists, vandals, US/West servants, etc).
I think there is a really bad interpretation of democracy in ex-communist countries, including mine, because if you have a different view, then you're often labelled as one of the above things.
Oh, and just a flashback from Bulgarian protests last summer - the government was saying we were a minority... I just see the same patterns used against protesters. No new tricks, huh?
On February 28 2014 21:05 radiatoren wrote: ...the people doing this are clearly Russian and military.
Crimea doesn't need any additional military yet, they have their own police, their own anti-maidan activists, and their own military troops. People talking in Russian do not belong to Russia automatically. And Crimea will solve it's problems independently with referendum that will be held at the same day as elections in Kiev.
After seeing that video, i have to agree. It's not "pro-russian-militia", but russia going full retard.
Just because i'm not entirely sure, sending military transports into a country without permission, what repercussions could that have?
What did you see in the video, except unclear helicopters flying somewhere in the world at unclear point in time. Also Russia has a base in Sevastopol, are you surprised they have military equipment there ? Seems to me you are jumping to conclusions based on nothing.
On February 28 2014 21:05 radiatoren wrote: ...the people doing this are clearly Russian and military.
Crimea doesn't need any additional military yet, they have their own police, their own anti-maidan activists, and their own military troops. People talking in Russian do not belong to Russia automatically. And Crimea will solve it's problems independently with referendum that will be held at the same day as elections in Kiev.
After seeing that video, i have to agree. It's not "pro-russian-militia", but russia going full retard.
Just because i'm not entirely sure, sending military transports into a country without permission, what repercussions could that have?
What did you see in the video, except unclear helicopters flying somewhere in the world at unclear point in time. Also Russia has a base in Sevastopol, are you surprised they have military equipment there ? Seems to me you are jumping to conclusions based on nothing.
International media are reporting that they're wearing the new russian military uniform.
EPT
