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Ukraine Crisis - Page 573

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There is a new policy in effect in this thread. Anyone not complying will be moderated.

New policy, please read before posting:
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Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-10 09:58:54
June 10 2014 06:17 GMT
#11441

Ukraine's new president Petro Poroshenko has vowed to meet with a trilateral commission each day. Representatives for Russia, the EU, and the OSCE are reportedly part of those meetings. Today, after only the first meeting, Ukraine's Foreign Ministry has indicated that there may have been a breakthrough:

``"As a result of the work, the sides reached a mutual understanding on key stages of the implementation of the plan and on a list of priorities which will contribute to a de-escalation of the situation in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine," the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry said.

Moscow did not immediately comment and Poroshenko has made few details of his plan public.

The talks are being mediated by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, a security and human rights watchdog. At the first talks on Sunday, with Russian envoy Mikhail Zurabov, Poroshenko said violence must end this week.''

Yesterday Poroshenko said that this needs to be the last week of fighting, and it was imperative for all sides to come to an agreement to restore peace.

But Russia and Ukraine have reportedly been on the same page before, only to find that Russia had a very different understanding of the facts on the ground than the rest of the parties involved in negotiations. Is this time different? This is the first time such a diplomatic breakthrough has been heralded since the inauguration of Poroshenko in an election that Moscow seems to be recognizing. Time will tell if Moscow is satisfied by the agreement, and whether the pro-Russian militants in eastern Ukraine abide by any agreement brokered by Kiev and Moscow.
Source.


***


President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko met with heads of the Security Service of Ukraine, the Ministry of the Interior, the Ministry of Defense and the State Emergency Service.

In order to avoid new victims in the area of holding the counterterrorist operation, the President instructed heads of law enforcement and military agencies to provide all the necessary conditions for civilians willing to move.

The Head of State also instructed the Government to take responsibility for the transportation of people and medical services, as well as deploy the network of mobile units to provide the civilian population with drinking water, food and medicines.

City state administrations, local government bodies and the Cabinet of Ministers must jointly ensure the accommodation of people arriving from the area of holding the counterterrorist operation.


***

Russian companies are preparing to switch contracts to renminbi and other Asian currencies amid fears that western sanctions may freeze them out of the US dollar market, according to two top bankers.

“Over the last few weeks there has been a significant interest in the market from large Russian corporations to start using various products in renminbi and other Asian currencies and to set up accounts in Asian locations,” Pavel Teplukhin, head of Deutsche Bank in Russia, told the Financial Times.
Read the rest on FT


***
This is old, but I haven't seen it posted yet:

Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
sgtnoobkilla
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia249 Posts
June 10 2014 13:36 GMT
#11442
Lavrov: Russia won’t sanction Ukraine if Kiev signs association agreement with EU

Russia doesn’t see any obstacles to Ukraine signing the EU association agreement, said Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. He added that Moscow will not impose any sanctions and will return the trade regime with Kiev to ‘most-favored’ status.

“We don’t see any obstacles concerning this process [the EU association]. We cannot forbid anyone to cooperate with these international organizations in the sphere of economic cooperation,” he said following the trilateral meeting with his counterparts from Poland and Germany in Saint Petersburg on Tuesday.

Russia will not impose sanctions on Ukraine if the latter signs the economic section of the Association Agreement with the EU, Lavrov added.

“We don’t have an obsession, as some of our partners do – a ‘sanctions itch’. We will not impose sanctions against Ukraine. We will return the trade relations to ‘most-favored’ status.”

Lavrov said Ukraine reserves the right to choose, adding that deeper economic integration with Europe would have “consequences” for an earlier free-trade zone agreement with the CIS.

“The choice has not been made. The choice is to be made by the authorities. And it is desirable that this choice is made, when all authorities will be completely legitimate in Ukraine and will have the people’s support, not like they are trying to do now - in a hurry, clearly demonstrating some nervousness, that they may not have enough time” the minister said.

.....

Source

It was only days ago that Putin was saying that Russia needed to "...protect its interests" while throwing around no-EU-for-Ukraine rhetoric. And now Lavrov counters it by saying that there's no objection at all? What're they playing at?
Don't play with your food unless it plays with you first.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
June 10 2014 13:42 GMT
#11443
On June 10 2014 22:36 sgtnoobkilla wrote:
Show nested quote +
Lavrov: Russia won’t sanction Ukraine if Kiev signs association agreement with EU

Russia doesn’t see any obstacles to Ukraine signing the EU association agreement, said Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. He added that Moscow will not impose any sanctions and will return the trade regime with Kiev to ‘most-favored’ status.

“We don’t see any obstacles concerning this process [the EU association]. We cannot forbid anyone to cooperate with these international organizations in the sphere of economic cooperation,” he said following the trilateral meeting with his counterparts from Poland and Germany in Saint Petersburg on Tuesday.

Russia will not impose sanctions on Ukraine if the latter signs the economic section of the Association Agreement with the EU, Lavrov added.

“We don’t have an obsession, as some of our partners do – a ‘sanctions itch’. We will not impose sanctions against Ukraine. We will return the trade relations to ‘most-favored’ status.”

Lavrov said Ukraine reserves the right to choose, adding that deeper economic integration with Europe would have “consequences” for an earlier free-trade zone agreement with the CIS.

“The choice has not been made. The choice is to be made by the authorities. And it is desirable that this choice is made, when all authorities will be completely legitimate in Ukraine and will have the people’s support, not like they are trying to do now - in a hurry, clearly demonstrating some nervousness, that they may not have enough time” the minister said.

.....

Source

It was only days ago that Putin was saying that Russia needed to "...protect its interests" while throwing around no-EU-for-Ukraine rhetoric. And now Lavrov counters it by saying that there's no objection at all? What're they playing at?


There have been negotiations between Poroshenko and Russians, and they reported a breakthrough today. Perhaps Russia got whatever it wanted in return and will allow Ukraine to move towards the EU as long as it doesn't move towards NATO, or something similar. As no details have been leaked from those negotiations, we really cannot know.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
June 10 2014 20:11 GMT
#11444

No Public Breakthrough at Ministers' Talks on Ukraine Crisis
ST. PETERSBURG, Russia—The highest-level visit of European Union diplomats to Russia since the Ukraine crisis erupted produced no public breakthroughs, as Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov continued to send mixed signals of accommodation and confrontation over the continuing separatist violence in eastern Ukraine.

Mr. Lavrov said Russia would support new Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko's plans to halt violence in eastern Ukraine, including "humanitarian corridors" that would allow people to flee rebel-held areas to other parts of the country.

But Mr. Lavrov said Russia continued to insist that Kiev needed to stop military operations against separatists in the country's east if it wanted the separatists to lay down their arms. And he repeated warnings that Ukraine faced negative consequences in trade with Russia if it signed a trade deal with the EU.

German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski tried to highlight Russian signals that the Kremlin was ready to take a more accommodating posture in the crisis. Those signs have included Russia taking steps to recognize the election of Mr. Poroshenko, whom Mr. Lavrov at one point called "President Poroshenko."

"There is, possibly, a small light at the end of the tunnel," Mr. Steinmeier said. "In recent days, since the presidential election in Ukraine, one can feel the crisis being defused."

Mr. Steinmeier called on Russia to use its influence to stop separatist violence in the east and said a "key question" was what Russia would do to stop weapons and fighters from crossing its border into Ukraine.

Mr. Lavrov said Russia was ready to work with Mr. Poroshenko and the 57-nation Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe to halt the violence.

But Mr. Lavrov said it was up to Kiev to stop military operations. Otherwise, he suggested, the separatists would keep fighting.

"You can't blame people for wanting to defend the cities and towns where their children live," Mr. Lavrov said when asked why the Kremlin wasn't publicly saying it didn't support the separatists. "The key for us is the end of military operations against the protesters."

Mr. Lavrov also repeated a warning from Russian President Vladimir Putin last week that Ukraine faced consequences in its trade with Russia if it signed a trade deal with the European Union, which is expected to happen on June 27. Doing so, Mr. Lavrov said, would mean that Ukraine would lose previously agreed-to benefits in its trade deals with Russia.

Western officials had considered canceling Tuesday's long-planned talks, which are a part of a series of meetings between Poland, Russia, and Germany that the countries launched seven years ago and were initially aimed at discussing their countries' World War II histories.

In recent weeks, with the Russian side sounding a more accommodating tone than it previously had in Ukraine crisis, Germany and Poland decided to go ahead with Tuesday's meeting.

At the meeting, Mr. Steinmeier, who has sounded upbeat notes in recent days on an opportunity to resolve the crisis, referred to Mr. Lavrov as "dear Sergei" at the outset of a joint news conference of the three ministers. But tensions between Russia and the West remained apparent.

In opening statements as all three diplomats were seated at a round table, Mr. Sikorski said he was heartened to hear from Mr. Lavrov that Russia's annexation of the Ukrainian region of Crimea "will not be repeated" elsewhere.

Russian officials have said in the past that Russia has no plans to invade eastern Ukraine. But Mr. Lavrov responded to Mr. Sikorski's comment with a deep, loud laugh.
Source.

***



Ryan Dawson, RT’s “Human Rights Activist,” A Holocaust Denier Who’s Friends With Hate Criminals

Ryan Dawson uses the internet to promote bigotry and Holocaust denial, but on RT, he’s a “geopolitical analyst”, “human rights activist” and “Asian affairs expert.”

In 2007, a man named Eric Hunt cornered Elie Wiesel in the elevator of San Francisco’s Argent Hotel, grabbed him and pulled him off the elevator into a hallway. Hunt there held Wiesel against his will while subjecting him to an extended harangue, demanding that Wiesel admit that the Holocaust was just a Zionist myth. After Wiesel cried out for help, Hunt fled, but was subsequently found by police and arrested. He was later convicted of false imprisonment as a felony hate-crime.
His attorney defended him in interviews after the trial, saying that Hunt wasn’t really a Holocaust denier or bigot, but at the time of the attack was merely suffering from a bipolar episode from which he had since recovered. Hunt served 19 months of a three-year sentence before being released early for good behavior.

One might have assumed that was the last the world would hear from Hunt — that he would get on the appropriate medication and disappear into obscurity — but that would have been wishful thinking. In fact, as the result of his videos, which have had tens of thousands of hits on YouTube and other sites (including Internet Archive), Hunt has achieved considerable notoriety within the world of Holocaust denial since his release. What does he say in his videos? The ADL reports that Hunt’s 2009 video The Jewish Gas Chamber Hoax “describes the Holocaust as ‘the greatest hoax of human history,’ (and) uses clips of Holocaust survivors’ testimonies from Steven Spielberg’s 1998 documentary The Last Days … portraying these testimonies as ‘fraudulent.’” The video claims that bodies shown in films and photos of concentration camps were killed by the Allies, and that “Zyklon B was actually used to save Jewish lives.” A 2010 video “Where’s Wiesel’s Tatoo?” charged that Elie Wiesel is lying about having survived the Holocaust.

Hunt recently resurfaced in an extensive interview on the podcast of one Ryan Dawson for a discussion of his new video, “The Tre­blinka Archae­ol­ogy Hoax”. According to the ADL, in that video, Hunt calls the Holo­caust a “hoax”, and “describes the death camps as ‘work camps’ where the Jews got what they deserved. Hunt states that the Jews in the camps ‘were liv­ing off inter­est rates, usury, etc. and if you read Mein Kampf, of course, basi­cally Hitler said that they should be work­ing. They shouldn’t be liv­ing off peo­ple they’re scamming.’”

Check out the associated links here.


***

"Germans Double Troops to Poland in Response to Russia's Ukraine Thrusts."

You haven't read that before. But German Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen, in a self-proclaimed show of solidarity with NATO's eastern allies, pointed to the numbers last week. Her ministry indicated the German contingent at the multinational force outpost in Szczecin, Poland would grow to 118 from 59.

Take that, Vladimir Putin. This was the minimalist message of resolve to the Russians from the European country with the most influence and practical leverage for confronting what U.S. President Barack Obama described as Russian "aggression" at NATO's borders.

Done with the tough stuff, the first palpable signals arrived that Germany was veering back toward business-as-usual.

This process permits Europe's leading nation to not demand that Russia return Crimea to Ukraine as a requirement for a return to normalcy; and to not set up specific tripwires for new, nastier sanctions if the coming weeks of diplomatic maneuvering doesn't move Mr. Putin.

While Mr. Obama was on what developed into a de-isolation tour for the Russian president, Ms. Von der Leyen announced that Germany would neither furnish military equipment to the new Ukranian government—America seems to have the monopoly on night-vision goggles—nor increase its defense budget.

The world's third-biggest arms dealer was saying, in effect, that it feared inciting Russia if it put new money into its current military expenditures (1.3% of gross national product), which rank 14th from the top out of NATO's 28 members.

German Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen European Pressphoto Agency
Heard about a revitalized Alliance now energized by a Germany willing to more actively take sides? In fact, Ms. Von der Leyen's efforts included calling for a show of "prudence" from the Baltic states, as if Estonia or Latvia's playbooks included planned anti-Russian provocations.

But for grating, misplaced public advice, Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier took charge. As Petro Poroshenko was inaugurated as Ukraine's president, against the background of Ukrainian soldiers battling pro-Russian separatists, Mr. Steinmeier admonished that it would be "smart to be cautious in the deployment of military force and have a sense of proportion," in comments published by the Tagesspiegel am Sonntag newspaper.

This is not an approach about to shake any Russian timbers—even if a high Western security official, after Allied meetings with Mr. Putin in Normandy, described the Russian to me as giving the impression that "his Ukraine bubble has burst," and insisting that he "was not in full control" of the pro-Moscow fighters.

Take this for more certain: The Russian leader could not have failed to pick up on Chancellor Angela Merkel's little-noticed public remark that "there are no automatic" elements in her conception of the Western position on Ukraine. Which would mean that for Germany, regardless of the interpretations of other allies, there are no strict red-lines, or fail-safe deadlines for imposing really serious sanctions against Russia.

This hesitancy disregards a startling (and barely reported) evaluation published last month by Deutsche Bank, titled "The economics of sanctions: The West can afford to be tough." The bank foresees no Germany calamity, saying instead that in the event of a Russian recession, the impact on the German economy "would be in the order of 0.5 [percentage points]: certainly not negligible, but manageable."

Regardless, German public opinion points away from resolve. Mr. Putin would have happily noticed a poll reporting last week that 75% of Germans reject a stronger NATO presence in Eastern Europe.

"They have the vapors," exclaimed John Kornblum, a former Clinton Administration ambassador to Germany, in a recent phone conversation.

So much for the Gauck Doctrine—the call earlier this year by federal President Joachim Gauck for new German responsibility in international security matters, and an end to the country's excuses for hiding from firm engagement. Now Mr. Gauck has given ground, asking Polish students in Warsaw last week to understand that Germany, because of its "warlike past," had to avoid moving "too quickly into confrontation."

An eventually existential clash within the West about its own defense arises here.

On one side, and not alone, is rich, reasonable, non-reckless Norway, where Defense Minister Ine Eriksen Soreide has spoken of the necessity to accept "permanently changed relations" with Russia. She said it has demonstrated "the ability and the will" to go on the attack inside Europe.

On the other side, Mrs. Merkel. Asked recently by the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung for a response to the expansionist policies of Mr. Putin, who has explicitly granted himself the right to armed intervention in Ukraine, the chancellor said, "I see no need for a brand new political formulation.''

Rarely is a member of a profoundly self-involved, comfort-oriented German government willing to face up to this essential problem. But Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble has seemingly taken a shot at its avoidance of reality. "The current dispute with Russia has a political dimension that goes beyond what is happening in Ukraine," Mr. Schäuble told Spiegel in late May, adding that Mr. "Putin appears intent on belittling the liberal democratic order."

The only possibly credible defender of that Western system of freedom is the United States.

But pressure must be placed on Germany to stop doing nothing of sufficient force to help in the process. It's a requirement for America's capacity to check Russia—and for halting further U.S. strategic retreat.
Source.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Roman666
Profile Joined April 2012
Poland1440 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-11 04:34:48
June 11 2014 04:31 GMT
#11445
About current situation in Crimea:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.polskieradio.pl/5/3/Artykul/1149220,Coraz-gorsza-sytuacja-na-Krymie-Wyzsze-ceny-brak-towarow&edit-text=

TLDR: There is a shortage of goods what leads to higher prices. Crimea was very dependent on mainland Ukraine when it came to water and food supply and was strongly subsidized from central budget. Now that there are import bans on stuff coming from Ukraine and Crimea is not able to produce stuff to sustain itself on its own, it needs to import more expensive stuff coming from Russia.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-11 13:23:15
June 11 2014 11:58 GMT
#11446
There are no major news, but there are a number of shady sources reporting on strife between local and foreign separatists. For example, this article reports that some armed militants approached ATO forces and told them that they want to join the ATO. They don't want to lay down arms, they want to fight the foreigners from Russia that came and took control. They also said that a lot of people resent the foreigner presence.

Also, it's worth noting that the negotiations between Ukraine and Russia haven't failed yet

Edit: Spoke too soon,



The price was previously 268 dollars per 1000 cubic meters.

***
BBC version:


Ukraine has rejected a deal to decrease the price it will pay on a disputed Russian gas debt during long-running price negotiations.

Ukraine said that an offer from Russia of a discount of $100 for every 1,000 cubic metres of gas was part of a "trap".

Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said Ukraine would not agree to any discounts within its current gas deal.

Russia and Ukraine are in talks in Brussels to try to resolve the issue.

The two countries are locked in a disagreement over a rescinded Russian gas rebate.

Ukraine wants a new gas deal based on "a contract, rather than on the basis of whether Russia likes the Ukrainian government or not", Mr Yatsenyuk said.

Before the rebate was cancelled, Ukraine's gas bill was heavily discounted by Russia to $268 per 1,000 cubic metres.

After the discount was withdrawn, the price went back up to $485.50 per 1,000 cubic metres, the highest in Europe.

Russia had threatened to cut off gas supplies unless Ukraine paid its gas bill, which runs into billions of dollars, by Tuesday.

However, following negotiations in Brussels, on Wednesday Russia extended the deadline until 16 June and offered the $100 discount.

That offer was rejected by Ukraine.

"I want to make an official statement that we know these Russian traps," Mr Yatsenyuk told a government meeting broadcast by 5 Kanal TV on Wednesday.

"The discount is set by the Russian government and is cancelled by the Russian government. So our offer was and remains unchanged. The contract must be changed."

Mr Yatsenyuk said Ukraine was prepared to pay the market price on its debt.

Almost 15% of gas used in Europe comes from Russia via Ukraine. There are fears that if Ukraine's supplies are cut off, it could have an impact on supplies in Europe.
Source.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
June 11 2014 13:50 GMT
#11447
nice talk on russian cultural response

We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
June 11 2014 14:19 GMT
#11448
On June 11 2014 20:58 Ghanburighan wrote:
There are no major news, but there are a number of shady sources reporting on strife between local and foreign separatists. For example, this article reports that some armed militants approached ATO forces and told them that they want to join the ATO. They don't want to lay down arms, they want to fight the foreigners from Russia that came and took control. They also said that a lot of people resent the foreigner presence.

Also, it's worth noting that the negotiations between Ukraine and Russia haven't failed yet

Negotiations on gas prices and on Donbass are connected but they are not the same thing. I haven't heard that the three-way negotiations group (Ukraine-Russia-OSCE) has stopped working.
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-11 15:03:15
June 11 2014 15:00 GMT
#11449
Interactive maps of Ukraine for top5 presidential candidates.
Poroshenko
Tymoshenko
Lyashko
Grytsenko
Tygybko
http://www.liga.net/infografica/188029_kak-progolosovali-regiony-ukrainy-lidery-luzery-i-interesnye-fakty-.htm

+ one interesting fact: Donetsk oblast had more % of people voting for Yarosh (0,79%) than Lviv oblast (0,76%). Yarosh is the Right Sector leader.
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
June 11 2014 21:30 GMT
#11450
On June 11 2014 22:50 oneofthem wrote:
nice talk on russian cultural response

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADd4aUgrVyY


yep.
that is a nice talk. esp from 45:55 onwards!
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
Plovez
Profile Joined June 2007
Russian Federation83 Posts
June 11 2014 23:15 GMT
#11451


User was warned for this post
heliusx
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States2306 Posts
June 11 2014 23:44 GMT
#11452
Ukraine is using WP? .....
dude bro.
PaleMan
Profile Joined October 2002
Russian Federation1953 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-12 08:11:13
June 12 2014 08:08 GMT
#11453
Two diplomatic messages from the WikiLeaks Public Library on U.S. Diplomacy indicate that newly elected President of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko was an agent for United States State Department. A confidential message from the U.S. Embassy in Kiev on April 29, 2006 mentions the newly elected Ukraine president twice.


Source

Wikileaks source

who would have thought lol
Pure fan
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-12 09:02:25
June 12 2014 08:54 GMT
#11454
On June 12 2014 17:08 PaleMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
Two diplomatic messages from the WikiLeaks Public Library on U.S. Diplomacy indicate that newly elected President of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko was an agent for United States State Department. A confidential message from the U.S. Embassy in Kiev on April 29, 2006 mentions the newly elected Ukraine president twice.


Source

Wikileaks source

who would have thought lol


What nonsense, again. I open up the cable you link and it doesn't refer to Poroshenko as an agent, the words are: ``OU insider - i.e., someone who knows what happens in Ukrainian politics''. Read the cable from any country, for example this one from Russia, and you'll see the word used in this way. An agent is called an agent, an insider is called an insider.

Edit: Just to make this perfectly clear, Yuschenko's party was called Our Ukraine (abbreviated OU), so the text could be paraphrased as: ``Poroshenko, insider into the matters of the Our Ukraine (OU) party said...''.

Here's the text:

Summary
-------

1. (C) During an April 28 meeting with Ambassador, Our Ukraine (OU) insider Petro Poroshenko emphatically denied he
was using his influence with the Prosecutor General to put pressure on Tymoshenko lieutenant Oleksandr Turchynov (refs A and B). Coalition talks with the Tymoshenko Bloc (BYuT) were continuing, but there was no progress to report; President Yushchenko still seemed unwilling to accept Tymoshenko as prime minister and was "listening" to influential advocates of cooperation with the Party of Regions. Poroshenko claimed that he was personally opposed to an "Orange-Blue" pairing. Poroshenko related that he had spoken at length with Tymoshenko on April 27; she had sought, and then spurned, his assistance in forming a BYuT-OU coalition in the Kiev city council. Poroshenko confided that he had spoken with Tymoshenko during the Orthodox Easter weekend (April 22-23); she had called him to ask "what he wanted" in return for his support for her serving again as PM. Poroshenko said he had replied that he wanted her to be more flexible and less high-handed in the coalition talks. Poroshenko groused that Tymoshenko could not be trusted, stressing that she was not candid and not "principled." It was very possible, Poroshenko warned, that there could be a crisis scenario in which Tymoshenko and Yushchenko simply could not get a coalition deal done. End summary.


As you can see, Poroshenko is (one of many) people discussing the current state of government forming negotiations to the US embassy. A comment at the end of the cable points out that Poroshenko is especially unreliable as a source of information:


Comment
-------

6. (C) As with much of what we are hearing about the
motivations, goals, characters, etc. of the various "other
sides" in the majority coalition talks, Poroshenko's claims
about his arch-nemesis Tymoshenko and his protestations of
innocence re PG moves against Tymoshenko lieutenant Turchynov
have to be taken with a large grain of salt. But this grain
may be larger than most of the others. While we have no
proof in hand, too many interlocutors point to Poroshenko as
one of OU's leading proponents of a coalition with Regions to
simply believe he would be at most a reluctant follower were
Yushchenko and Yekhanurov to take the party that direction.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Saihv
Profile Joined March 2013
Finland54 Posts
June 12 2014 09:14 GMT
#11455
Seems Ghanburighan already pointed out that calling someone insider does not make them an agent.
But insider is a broad term http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insider look it up.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
June 12 2014 10:00 GMT
#11456
Breaking news:





Keep in mind that this is even more preliminary information than usually and could easily turn out to be a false report.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6284 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-12 10:25:17
June 12 2014 10:23 GMT
#11457
If it were true it would be plastered all over every news outlet on the planet within a matter of minutes.

B-B-But its on an obscure twitter account known for being bombastic and biased for three hours already without any other source coming up... so it must be true!
"If only Kircheis were here" - Everyone
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
June 12 2014 10:57 GMT
#11458
well a deal was made so sooner or later we'll going to see it in action.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
June 12 2014 12:35 GMT
#11459
Update: Interpretermag looking into whether Russian tanks entered ukraine or not. Read the report here. They have not yet confirmed it (unlike Avakov and Tymchuk of the Ukrainian govt. who have confirmed it. But I wouldn't take their word for it.)
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
sgtnoobkilla
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia249 Posts
June 12 2014 12:46 GMT
#11460
Video footage of the said tank(s):


They look more like Ukrainian T-64s than Russian T-72s to be honest. Perhaps the separatists managed to get a few tanks from that depot in Artemovsk up and running?
Don't play with your food unless it plays with you first.
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