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Ukraine Crisis - Page 575

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There is a new policy in effect in this thread. Anyone not complying will be moderated.

New policy, please read before posting:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21393711
PaleMan
Profile Joined October 2002
Russian Federation1953 Posts
June 12 2014 15:06 GMT
#11481
MOSCOW, June 12./ITAR-TASS/. Gazprom will not postpone the payment deadline for Ukraine anymore, Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller said on Thursday, June 12.
The current deadline is 10:00 Moscow time June 16, when Gazprom should see $1.951 billion on its accounts. Otherwise, the company will move over to advance payments in settlements with Ukraine. “If nothing has been paid, nothing will be supplied,” Miller said.
Naftogaz of Ukraine should pay $1.454 billion for gas supplies in November and December 2013 and show progress in paying for April and May, he said.


Continue reading
Pure fan
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-12 15:27:38
June 12 2014 15:14 GMT
#11482
Through the account in Twitter named "The flats of Novorossiya" separatists are renting and even selling the flats of people who had temporarily left Donbass. In one of the posts there they say the flats are the property of DNR because their owners have "fled and need to pay for their treason by the laws of war time". They offer price cuts to Russian journalists.

The article
http://news.liga.net/news/politics/2114168-terroristy_sdayut_v_arendu_kvartiry_sbezhavshikh_s_donbassa_grazhdan.htm
The Twitter channel
https://twitter.com/DNrielt
hunts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2113 Posts
June 12 2014 15:14 GMT
#11483
On June 13 2014 00:06 nunez wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2014 21:46 sgtnoobkilla wrote:
Video footage of the said tank(s):


They look more like Ukrainian T-64s than Russian T-72s to be honest. Perhaps the separatists managed to get a few tanks from that depot in Artemovsk up and running?


only an idiot would think otherwise.


So you know exactly what's going on in ukraine, well enough to state that anyone who disagrees with something is an idiot? Interesting...
twitch.tv/huntstv 7x legend streamer
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
June 12 2014 15:18 GMT
#11484
On June 13 2014 00:14 hunts wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2014 00:06 nunez wrote:
On June 12 2014 21:46 sgtnoobkilla wrote:
Video footage of the said tank(s):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5xFm4gwjws

They look more like Ukrainian T-64s than Russian T-72s to be honest. Perhaps the separatists managed to get a few tanks from that depot in Artemovsk up and running?


only an idiot would think otherwise.


So you know exactly what's going on in ukraine, well enough to state that anyone who disagrees with something is an idiot? Interesting...


I believe his point is that Russia is unlikely to actually invade, and talk of invasion is likely hysteria. But seriously guys, cool it with the ad hominem and the over-inflated rhetoric. I love keeping up with this thread (and am intrigued to read the story from the other side), so let's not draw the mods' wrath just because we can't keep from name calling.
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-12 19:36:06
June 12 2014 15:38 GMT
#11485
This picture is supposedly a russian T-72 destroyed by Ukrainian army, the one that Avakov was talking about.

edit: proved false.
User was warned for this post
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-12 16:18:58
June 12 2014 15:57 GMT
#11486
already busted on reddit, shopped photo from georgia / 2010.

russian t-72's invading ukraine, because a short video of what looks like a t-64, and disinfo twitter spammed in thread... hillarious. should prolly let that account go ghan, like you did euromaidanpr and seemingly carlbildt, it's just noise to the thread.

User was warned for this post
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
PaleMan
Profile Joined October 2002
Russian Federation1953 Posts
June 12 2014 16:37 GMT
#11487
On June 13 2014 00:57 nunez wrote:
already busted on reddit, shopped photo from georgia / 2010.

russian t-72's invading ukraine, because a short video of what looks like a t-64, and disinfo twitter spammed in thread... hillarious. should prolly let that account go ghan, like you did euromaidanpr and seemingly carlbildt, it's just noise to the thread.


the problem is he didn't even get a warning for that post

User was warned for this post
Pure fan
PaleMan
Profile Joined October 2002
Russian Federation1953 Posts
June 12 2014 16:59 GMT
#11488
Poroshenko to make first presidential visit to Brussels

KIEV, June 12. /ITAR-TASS/. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko will make his first foreign visit as president to Brussels, acting Foreign Minister Andrei Deshchitsa said on Thursday, June 12.
“The president will travel to Brussels shortly to sign the Association Agreement (with the European Union on June 27). I think it is obvious that the first visit will take place on June 27,” he said.
Deshchitsa noted, however, that the Foreign Ministry “has not yet worked on the president’s trips in the coming week”.


Source

puppet goes to its masters for instructions
Pure fan
PaleMan
Profile Joined October 2002
Russian Federation1953 Posts
June 12 2014 17:05 GMT
#11489
On June 12 2014 23:47 Cheerio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2014 23:38 PaleMan wrote:
On June 12 2014 23:33 heliusx wrote:
Not all use of WP is illegal. Every country uses it for smoke. So wait for some facts before you run with it. Besides we would probably have seen more footage by now if it was used on people.


it is very problematic you know
ukraine goverment seizes russian journalists at will

first 2 from lifenews who dragged POLISH manpad around (lol) - already released

then group of reporters from channel "Star" (according to ukrainian SBU they are spies) - already released

so not many ppl to film this bombardment, since foreign journalists are kinda afraid to go deep in this mess


I think he is talking about the aftermath footage, and you don't need journalists to flood youtube with it. Phosphorous bombs can lead to some devastating results.


aftermath video:



User was temp banned for this post.
Pure fan
heliusx
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States2306 Posts
June 12 2014 17:36 GMT
#11490
Compelling evidence of war crimes.
dude bro.
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-12 18:04:56
June 12 2014 17:47 GMT
#11491
According to ATO center the tanks that entered Ukraine are Ukrainian T-64 that were captured in Crimea. Those, and other captured military equipment (including armored vehicles) is now being transported via weakened border, that ATO forces are trying to take back.

http://www.segodnya.ua/regions/donetsk/tanki-kotorye-voshli-v-ukrainu-cherez-granicu-s-rf-byli-zahvacheny-v-krymu-atc-528250.html
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
June 12 2014 18:09 GMT
#11492
On June 13 2014 02:47 Cheerio wrote:
According to ATO center the tanks that entered Ukraine are Ukrainian T-64 that were captured in Crimea. Those, and other captured military equipment (including armored vehicles) is now being transported via weakened border, that ATO forces are trying to take back.

http://www.segodnya.ua/regions/donetsk/tanki-kotorye-voshli-v-ukrainu-cherez-granicu-s-rf-byli-zahvacheny-v-krymu-atc-528250.html


Is this a translation of the article's content?
AdministratorBreak the chains
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-12 20:22:56
June 12 2014 20:15 GMT
#11493
On June 13 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2014 02:47 Cheerio wrote:
According to ATO center the tanks that entered Ukraine are Ukrainian T-64 that were captured in Crimea. Those, and other captured military equipment (including armored vehicles) is now being transported via weakened border, that ATO forces are trying to take back.

http://www.segodnya.ua/regions/donetsk/tanki-kotorye-voshli-v-ukrainu-cherez-granicu-s-rf-byli-zahvacheny-v-krymu-atc-528250.html


Is this a translation of the article's content?


There are a few more details: there were three tanks transported through Ketch through Russia into Ukraine from the East where the border between Russia and Ukraine is open. The ATO attacked one of these convoys entering through the border (I can't quite make out what happened to them, possibly nothing).

Poroshenko held an emergency meeting with law enforcement officials regarding the porous border, and the govt. reported that they have closed 100km of the border again. (take with a grain of salt, people, the Ukrainian govt. claims many things these days).

***

A good example when Itar-Tass is a very reliable source: the Russian FM signals that a) they don't want to send troops in, b) the separatists are ready for a ceasefire.


MOSCOW, June 12. /ITAR-TASS/. Moscow does not believe it is high time to send peacekeepers into Ukraine.

“We are not speaking about peacekeepers. We do not believe it is high time (for peacekeeping),” Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told reporters. He believes Ukraine’s President Petro Poroshenko still keeps the credibility.

Lavrov said that “hope still exists that (Ukrainian) President Poroshenko’s statement on the end of the violence and beginning of the negotiations will come into force since Poroshenko still maintains trustworthiness and it can be used now,” Lavrov said.

“Everything is in the hands of Ukrainian authorities,” he said.

“We know that self-defense fighters in (Ukraine’s) east are ready for ceasefire but according to all the rules, the first step must be done by the Ukrainian authorities now that Poroshenko’s inauguration has taken place.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
June 12 2014 23:57 GMT
#11494
Makeevka, Donetsk oblast, three tanks moving in a column under Russian flag.



Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-13 01:14:41
June 13 2014 00:16 GMT
#11495
On a positive side looks like Russia is recognizing Poroshenko as the President of Ukraine. After the first telephone conversation between Putin and Poroshenko news appeared on the official Putin's site that "Putin talked to the President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko"

http://www.kremlin.ru/news/45902
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-13 01:12:34
June 13 2014 00:56 GMT
#11496
There are reports that the captured mayor of Horlovka has made an order concerning the town's russification:
- Russian language would be made the main one in schools, Ukrainian would be forbidden [clearly with the next educational season in mind]
- The Ukrainian flags should be put down and replaced by Russian ones with the slogan "Russia is the mother, Putin is the father"
- All the signs in the town should be changed from Ukrainian to Russian language.

The photocopy of the order
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


http://news.liga.net/news/politics/2126821-v_gorlovke_boeviki_zastavlyayut_mera_davat_nezakonnye_rasporyazheniya.htm
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany12038 Posts
June 13 2014 02:25 GMT
#11497
On June 13 2014 09:56 Cheerio wrote:
There are reports that the captured mayor of Horlovka has made an order concerning the town's russification:
- Russian language would be made the main one in schools, Ukrainian would be forbidden [clearly with the next educational season in mind]
- The Ukrainian flags should be put down and replaced by Russian ones with the slogan "Russia is the mother, Putin is the father"
- All the signs in the town should be changed from Ukrainian to Russian language.

The photocopy of the order
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


http://news.liga.net/news/politics/2126821-v_gorlovke_boeviki_zastavlyayut_mera_davat_nezakonnye_rasporyazheniya.htm


I highly doubt this, but i don't speak russian so i have no idea about your sources. This sounds so incredibly stupid, and the slogan sounds so much like a Babylon 5 reference to me that i can't believe this without sources i understand.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-13 13:42:57
June 13 2014 11:06 GMT
#11498
Looks like the tank incident is making waves in diplomatic circles, but not as much as Ukraine would have wanted:


President Barroso made the following statement during a press conference with
President of Georgia Giorgi Margvelashvili, on occasion of his official visit to
Georgia:

“I called today President Poroshenko to discuss the situation in Ukraine, just
before meeting the President. I welcomed his peace initiative and direct talks with
Russia, the fact that now President Poroshenko and President Putin are speaking
directly is a positive step forward. At the same time President Poroshenko
conveyed to me his extreme concern with the ongoing armed unrest in Eastern
Ukraine and also today the incident with Russian tanks that according to the
Ukrainian authorities have crossed into Ukrainian territory.

The European Union has stated several times and I want to repeat it today that it
is very important that Russia ceases any kind of military actions in this area.
We believe that illegal armed groups need to disarm and we call on Russia to
withdraw the authorisation for use of force in Ukraine.

So once again, I make an appeal to Russia to engage constructively with Ukraine
and to give concrete steps and clear evidence of de-escalating efforts.

And coming back to the agreements with Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia that we
are going to sign in Brussels in June 27, I want to reiterate our willingness, as
European Union, to pursue talks with Russia, to discuss the concrete
implementation of these agreements, in case there are any concerns on the
Russian side. Of course we have to respect the content of these agreements, what
was already decided by the governments of these countries, but if there are some
concerns, if there are technical issues that the Russian authorities want to clarify,
we are ready for it.

So our message, as European Union, is a message of dialogue and cooperation,
not a message of confrontation. At the same time we have to be firm in the
respect of the sovereign right of any country to decide its own future.”
Source.


***
Looks like the ATO recaptured Mariupol:




Updating with a good overview:


Ukrainian government forces reclaimed the port city of Mariupol from pro-Russian separatists in heavy fighting on Friday and said they had regained control of a long stretch of the border with Russia.

The advances are significant victories for the pro-European leadership in a military operation to crush the armed separatist rebellion that began in east Ukraine in April and hold the former Soviet republic of 45 million together.

"At 10:34 a.m. (0734 GMT) the Ukrainian flag was raised over City Hall in Mariupol," Interior Minister Arsen Avakov wrote on Facebook, less than six hours after the attack began on the city of 500,000, Ukraine's biggest Azov Sea port.

A ministry aide said the government forces stormed the rebels after they were surrounded and given 10 minutes to surrender. At least five separatists and two servicemen were killed in the battle before many of the rebels fled.

Mariupol, which has changed hands several times in weeks of conflict, is strategically important because it lies on major roads from the southeastern border with Russia into the rest of Ukraine and steel is exported through the port.

Regaining control of the long and winding frontier is also vital for the government because it accuses Moscow of allowing the rebels to bring tanks, other armoured vehicles and guns across the porous border.

Avakov said the government forces had won back control of a 120-km (75-mile) stretch of the border that had fallen to the rebels, but it is not clear who controls other parts of the about 2,000-km frontier.

The rebels, who have taken over several towns and cities and want east Ukraine to become part of Russia, confirmed five of their fighters were killed in the fighting for Mariupol.

Avakov said National Guard and Interior Ministry units were involved in the battle, as well as special forces.

A Ukrainian defence analyst, Dmytro Tymchuk, said four Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and 31 wounded in fighting in other parts of east Ukraine in the past 24 hours. The death toll is not known but several hundred people have been reported killed in clashes this year in Kiev and the east of the country.

GAS TALKS TO RESUME

The rebels rose up in the Russian-speaking east and southeast after Russia annexed Crimea in March following the overthrow of Moscow-leaning President Viktor Yanukovich, who had triggered protests by spurning trade and political pacts that would have deepened ties with the European Union.

The new president, Petro Poroshenko, intensified the military operation against the rebels after he was elected on May 25 but is also trying to win support for a peace plan.

Rebel leaders have not responded to his suggestion they could be invited to talks if they lay down their arms, and rebels in the field have scoffed at the idea of giving up their weapons, saying they do not trust him.

Poroshenko's aides say progress has been made at initial meetings with a Russian envoy, and any immediate threat of a Russian invasion has receded, but talks on solving a natural gas pricing row with Russia have stalled.

European Energy Commissioner Guenther Oettinger, who is brokering the gas talks, said he hoped they would resume on Saturday.

The sides disagree over how much Ukraine should pay for its gas, and Russian state gas exporter Gazprom has threatened to turn off the taps to Kiev if it does not start paying billions of dollars in debts by Monday. This could disrupt supplies to the EU as it gets about half its gas imports from Russia, half of them via Ukraine.

But Oettinger said in Brussels: "I am optimistic the three parties will do all to avoid a disruption."

Political ties have also been strained by the appearance of several tanks in east Ukraine. Avakov accused Russia on Thursday of allowing the rebels to bring them across the border and Poroshenko told President Vladimir Putin by phone that the situation was "unacceptable."

Evidence that Russia is directly assisting the rebels militarily would implicate Moscow in the uprising, making a mockery of its denials of a role in the fighting. Russia did not immediately respond to the accusations and it was not clear how Putin reacted to Poroshenko by phone. His country has already been hit by U.S. and EU sanctions over events in Ukraine and could face more.
Source.


***
NATO SG Rasmussen warns Russia that heave weapons would be considered an escalation: (this is basically meeting Ukraine half/way)


I am concerned about reports that pro-Russian armed gangs are acquiring heavy weapons from Russia, including Russian tanks. We have seen reports that Russian tanks and other armoured vehicles may have crossed the border into eastern Ukraine. If these reports are confirmed, this would mark a serious escalation of the crisis in eastern Ukraine.

I continue to urge Russia to complete the withdrawal of its military forces on the border with Ukraine, to stop the flow of weapons and fighters across the border, and to exercise its influence among armed separatists to lay down their weapons and renounce violence. We call on the Russian Federation to meet its Geneva commitments and cooperate with the government of Ukraine as it implements its plans for promoting peace, unity and reform.
Source.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-13 17:07:38
June 13 2014 14:50 GMT
#11499
Mariupol after ATO, photos

+ Show Spoiler +

all the armored vehicles have DNR written over them
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]


And this is how the actual fighting looked like

Hint: there is some English at the end of the video. What English-speakers are doing in the heat of the battle is probably a question that nunez would like to answer.
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-13 21:49:26
June 13 2014 21:13 GMT
#11500
Russia Has Sent Tanks to Ukraine Rebels, U.S. Says

Full article
+ Show Spoiler +
WASHINGTON — The State Department confirmed on Friday that Russia has sent tanks and other heavy weapons to separatists in Ukraine.

A convoy of three T-64 tanks, several BM-21 “Grad” multiple rocket launchers and other military vehicles crossed the border near the Ukrainian town of Snizhne, State Department officials said. Reports and images of the weapons’ presence circulated on Thursday, but there were conflicting claims about where they had come from.

“This is unacceptable,” said Marie Harf, the deputy State Department spokeswoman. “A failure by Russia to de-escalate this situation will lead to additional costs.”

A Western official said that intelligence about the movement of the tanks and other weapons into Ukraine was shared on Friday with NATO allies. Secretary of State John Kerry complained earlier this week about the flow of Russian arms to separatists in Ukraine in a phone call to Sergey V. Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister.

The T-64 is an obsolescent tank no longer in active use by Russian forces, but still kept in storage in southwest Russia.

“Russia will claim these tanks were taken from Ukrainian forces, but no Ukrainian tank units have been operating in that area,” the State Department said Friday afternoon. “We are confident that these tanks came from Russia.”

“We also have information that Russia has accumulated multiple rocket launchers at this same deployment site in southwest Russia, and these rocket launchers also recently departed,” the State Department added. “Internet video has shown what we believe to be these same rocket launchers traveling through Luhansk.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/14/world/europe/russia-has-sent-tanks-to-ukraine-rebels-us-says.html

On June 13 2014 00:06 nunez wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2014 21:46 sgtnoobkilla wrote:
Video footage of the said tank(s):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5xFm4gwjws

They look more like Ukrainian T-64s than Russian T-72s to be honest. Perhaps the separatists managed to get a few tanks from that depot in Artemovsk up and running?


only an idiot would think otherwise.

you were saying?
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