Your answer seems to be to accept corrupt governments because even if you get rid of the thieves their successors will be just as bad.
I'll actually go out and say no, no shit. Sure not everything is roses and sunshine but overall in the west the people are satisfied. If things were as bad as Paleman would like is to believe there would be regular protests on the streets since you know, we are actually allowed to have them.
oh yeah, keep dreaming
Like he said, not everything is roses and sunshine but overall in the west the people are satisfied.
there is an anecdote:
- why there is no revolutions in USA? - cause there is no US embassy there
same goes for their EU allies
you missed the whole point of my post: you can create revolution/coup/overturn wherever you want if you control global and local medias
Or you know, it could be because there is less need for revolutions when there are fair and honest elections every 4 years.
so Yanukovich election wasn't fair and honest?
and of course elections of 25th May in Ukraine will be super fair and honest, right?
I can bet that 25th May election will be more fair and honest than Crimea/Donbass hoaxes. You can't be more dishonest than it was there, even your government admitted that Crimea hoax had in reality 50% of support with 30% turnout (around 15% of population) opposite to official 95% with over 80% of turnout.
i already wrote several times that president council consist mostly of opposition and USA worshipers and i'm surpized their "data" didn't show 95% of crimeans want to be with Ukraine those ppl in that council in 90s wanted and openly declared Russia must have no army, no factories and give oil and gas for free in the name of democracy etc.
Yeah no, i don't buy it.
On May 5th, the Russian President's Human Rights Council posted a report to their site about human rights in Crimea based on interviews with roughly 20 local human rights activists conducted over the course of two and a half days.[132] The report estimated that a "vast majority of the citizens of Sevastopol voted in favor of unification with Russia in the referendum (50-80%); in Crimea, various data show that 50-60% voted for unification with Russia, with a turnout of 30-50%," suggesting that only 15-30% of Crimeans actually voted for annexation.[133][134]. On 7 May the Council stated that the report was not an official position of the Council.[135]
On May 20 2014 19:42 Gorsameth wrote: [quote] I'll actually go out and say no, no shit. Sure not everything is roses and sunshine but overall in the west the people are satisfied. If things were as bad as Paleman would like is to believe there would be regular protests on the streets since you know, we are actually allowed to have them.
Like he said, not everything is roses and sunshine but overall in the west the people are satisfied.
there is an anecdote:
- why there is no revolutions in USA? - cause there is no US embassy there
same goes for their EU allies
you missed the whole point of my post: you can create revolution/coup/overturn wherever you want if you control global and local medias
Or you know, it could be because there is less need for revolutions when there are fair and honest elections every 4 years.
so Yanukovich election wasn't fair and honest?
and of course elections of 25th May in Ukraine will be super fair and honest, right?
I can bet that 25th May election will be more fair and honest than Crimea/Donbass hoaxes. You can't be more dishonest than it was there, even your government admitted that Crimea hoax had in reality 50% of support with 30% turnout (around 15% of population) opposite to official 95% with over 80% of turnout.
i already wrote several times that president council consist mostly of opposition and USA worshipers and i'm surpized their "data" didn't show 95% of crimeans want to be with Ukraine those ppl in that council in 90s wanted and openly declared Russia must have no army, no factories and give oil and gas for free in the name of democracy etc.
On May 5th, the Russian President's Human Rights Council posted a report to their site about human rights in Crimea based on interviews with roughly 20 local human rights activists conducted over the course of two and a half days.[132] The report estimated that a "vast majority of the citizens of Sevastopol voted in favor of unification with Russia in the referendum (50-80%); in Crimea, various data show that 50-60% voted for unification with Russia, with a turnout of 30-50%," suggesting that only 15-30% of Crimeans actually voted for annexation.[133][134]. On 7 May the Council stated that the report was not an official position of the Council.[135]
not to mention Svetlana Gannushkina (Светлана Ганнушкина) (who was main figure behind this report) is working for Memorial Human Rights Centre which is sponsored by National Endowment for Democracy, USAID, Open Society Institute, Ford Foundation, Henry M. Jackson Foundation, Bradley Foundation and Guggenheim Foundation since its establishment Memorial Human Rights Centre was so not pleased with the the NGO's law
- since social structure is pyramid (poor ppl being majority in the bottom etc) there is always mass dissatisfaction with current situation in most countries
No shit.
Your answer seems to be to accept corrupt governments because even if you get rid of the thieves their successors will be just as bad.
I'll actually go out and say no, no shit. Sure not everything is roses and sunshine but overall in the west the people are satisfied. If things were as bad as Paleman would like is to believe there would be regular protests on the streets since you know, we are actually allowed to have them.
Like he said, not everything is roses and sunshine but overall in the west the people are satisfied.
there is an anecdote:
- why there is no revolutions in USA? - cause there is no US embassy there
same goes for their EU allies
you missed the whole point of my post: you can create revolution/coup/overturn wherever you want if you control global and local medias
Or you know, it could be because there is less need for revolutions when there are fair and honest elections every 4 years.
so Yanukovich election wasn't fair and honest?
and of course elections of 25th May in Ukraine will be super fair and honest, right?
I belive other people have explained this to you more than one time but euromaidan, the so called revolution, wasnt primarily about forcing Yanukovich out of office but rather to make him keep his promise and go in the direction of europe. Yanukovich caused his own departure from power by actions we all know about by now.
forcing Yanukovich out actually was the biggest cause, his failure to keep his incredibly important promise was just the last frop in the cup already full.
Like he said, not everything is roses and sunshine but overall in the west the people are satisfied.
there is an anecdote:
- why there is no revolutions in USA? - cause there is no US embassy there
same goes for their EU allies
you missed the whole point of my post: you can create revolution/coup/overturn wherever you want if you control global and local medias
Or you know, it could be because there is less need for revolutions when there are fair and honest elections every 4 years.
so Yanukovich election wasn't fair and honest?
and of course elections of 25th May in Ukraine will be super fair and honest, right?
I can bet that 25th May election will be more fair and honest than Crimea/Donbass hoaxes. You can't be more dishonest than it was there, even your government admitted that Crimea hoax had in reality 50% of support with 30% turnout (around 15% of population) opposite to official 95% with over 80% of turnout.
i already wrote several times that president council consist mostly of opposition and USA worshipers and i'm surpized their "data" didn't show 95% of crimeans want to be with Ukraine those ppl in that council in 90s wanted and openly declared Russia must have no army, no factories and give oil and gas for free in the name of democracy etc.
Yeah no, i don't buy it.
On May 5th, the Russian President's Human Rights Council posted a report to their site about human rights in Crimea based on interviews with roughly 20 local human rights activists conducted over the course of two and a half days.[132] The report estimated that a "vast majority of the citizens of Sevastopol voted in favor of unification with Russia in the referendum (50-80%); in Crimea, various data show that 50-60% voted for unification with Russia, with a turnout of 30-50%," suggesting that only 15-30% of Crimeans actually voted for annexation.[133][134]. On 7 May the Council stated that the report was not an official position of the Council.[135]
On May 20 2014 20:20 zatic wrote: [quote] Like he said, not everything is roses and sunshine but overall in the west the people are satisfied.
there is an anecdote:
- why there is no revolutions in USA? - cause there is no US embassy there
same goes for their EU allies
you missed the whole point of my post: you can create revolution/coup/overturn wherever you want if you control global and local medias
Or you know, it could be because there is less need for revolutions when there are fair and honest elections every 4 years.
so Yanukovich election wasn't fair and honest?
and of course elections of 25th May in Ukraine will be super fair and honest, right?
I can bet that 25th May election will be more fair and honest than Crimea/Donbass hoaxes. You can't be more dishonest than it was there, even your government admitted that Crimea hoax had in reality 50% of support with 30% turnout (around 15% of population) opposite to official 95% with over 80% of turnout.
i already wrote several times that president council consist mostly of opposition and USA worshipers and i'm surpized their "data" didn't show 95% of crimeans want to be with Ukraine those ppl in that council in 90s wanted and openly declared Russia must have no army, no factories and give oil and gas for free in the name of democracy etc.
Yeah no, i don't buy it.
On May 5th, the Russian President's Human Rights Council posted a report to their site about human rights in Crimea based on interviews with roughly 20 local human rights activists conducted over the course of two and a half days.[132] The report estimated that a "vast majority of the citizens of Sevastopol voted in favor of unification with Russia in the referendum (50-80%); in Crimea, various data show that 50-60% voted for unification with Russia, with a turnout of 30-50%," suggesting that only 15-30% of Crimeans actually voted for annexation.[133][134]. On 7 May the Council stated that the report was not an official position of the Council.[135]
- why there is no revolutions in USA? - cause there is no US embassy there
same goes for their EU allies
you missed the whole point of my post: you can create revolution/coup/overturn wherever you want if you control global and local medias
Or you know, it could be because there is less need for revolutions when there are fair and honest elections every 4 years.
so Yanukovich election wasn't fair and honest?
and of course elections of 25th May in Ukraine will be super fair and honest, right?
I can bet that 25th May election will be more fair and honest than Crimea/Donbass hoaxes. You can't be more dishonest than it was there, even your government admitted that Crimea hoax had in reality 50% of support with 30% turnout (around 15% of population) opposite to official 95% with over 80% of turnout.
i already wrote several times that president council consist mostly of opposition and USA worshipers and i'm surpized their "data" didn't show 95% of crimeans want to be with Ukraine those ppl in that council in 90s wanted and openly declared Russia must have no army, no factories and give oil and gas for free in the name of democracy etc.
Yeah no, i don't buy it.
On May 5th, the Russian President's Human Rights Council posted a report to their site about human rights in Crimea based on interviews with roughly 20 local human rights activists conducted over the course of two and a half days.[132] The report estimated that a "vast majority of the citizens of Sevastopol voted in favor of unification with Russia in the referendum (50-80%); in Crimea, various data show that 50-60% voted for unification with Russia, with a turnout of 30-50%," suggesting that only 15-30% of Crimeans actually voted for annexation.[133][134]. On 7 May the Council stated that the report was not an official position of the Council.[135]
So you are saying that official results of Crimean referendum are fair and square?
and you are saying that 20 human right activists know better?
Nope. I am saying that Crimean referendum has been doctored, and just gave an example source.
summary just for you: thx to nunez
On May 5th, the Russian President's Human Rights Council posted a report to their site about human rights in Crimea based on interviews with roughly 20 local human rights activists conducted over the course of two and a half days.[132] The report estimated that a "vast majority of the citizens of Sevastopol voted in favor of unification with Russia in the referendum (50-80%); in Crimea, various data show that 50-60% voted for unification with Russia, with a turnout of 30-50%," suggesting that only 15-30% of Crimeans actually voted for annexation.[133][134]. On 7 May the Council stated that the report was not an official position of the Council.[135]
not to mention Svetlana Gannushkina (Светлана Ганнушкина) (who was main figure behind this report) is working for Memorial Human Rights Centre which is sponsored by National Endowment for Democracy, USAID, Open Society Institute, Ford Foundation, Henry M. Jackson Foundation, Bradley Foundation and Guggenheim Foundation since its establishment Memorial Human Rights Centre was so not pleased with the the NGO's law
so your source is invalid and biased, provide more reliable source thank you
On May 20 2014 22:36 PaleMan wrote: not to mention Svetlana Gannushkina (Светлана Ганнушкина) (who was main figure behind this report) is working for Memorial Human Rights Centre which is sponsored by National Endowment for Democracy, USAID, Open Society Institute, Ford Foundation, Henry M. Jackson Foundation, Bradley Foundation and Guggenheim Foundation since its establishment Memorial Human Rights Centre was so not pleased with the the NGO's law
Or you know, it could be because there is less need for revolutions when there are fair and honest elections every 4 years.
so Yanukovich election wasn't fair and honest?
and of course elections of 25th May in Ukraine will be super fair and honest, right?
I can bet that 25th May election will be more fair and honest than Crimea/Donbass hoaxes. You can't be more dishonest than it was there, even your government admitted that Crimea hoax had in reality 50% of support with 30% turnout (around 15% of population) opposite to official 95% with over 80% of turnout.
i already wrote several times that president council consist mostly of opposition and USA worshipers and i'm surpized their "data" didn't show 95% of crimeans want to be with Ukraine those ppl in that council in 90s wanted and openly declared Russia must have no army, no factories and give oil and gas for free in the name of democracy etc.
Yeah no, i don't buy it.
On May 5th, the Russian President's Human Rights Council posted a report to their site about human rights in Crimea based on interviews with roughly 20 local human rights activists conducted over the course of two and a half days.[132] The report estimated that a "vast majority of the citizens of Sevastopol voted in favor of unification with Russia in the referendum (50-80%); in Crimea, various data show that 50-60% voted for unification with Russia, with a turnout of 30-50%," suggesting that only 15-30% of Crimeans actually voted for annexation.[133][134]. On 7 May the Council stated that the report was not an official position of the Council.[135]
On May 5th, the Russian President's Human Rights Council posted a report to their site about human rights in Crimea based on interviews with roughly 20 local human rights activists conducted over the course of two and a half days.[132] The report estimated that a "vast majority of the citizens of Sevastopol voted in favor of unification with Russia in the referendum (50-80%); in Crimea, various data show that 50-60% voted for unification with Russia, with a turnout of 30-50%," suggesting that only 15-30% of Crimeans actually voted for annexation.[133][134]. On 7 May the Council stated that the report was not an official position of the Council.[135]
not to mention Svetlana Gannushkina (Светлана Ганнушкина) (who was main figure behind this report) is working for Memorial Human Rights Centre which is sponsored by National Endowment for Democracy, USAID, Open Society Institute, Ford Foundation, Henry M. Jackson Foundation, Bradley Foundation and Guggenheim Foundation since its establishment Memorial Human Rights Centre was so not pleased with the the NGO's law
so your source is invalid and biased, provide more reliable source thank you
How in the gods name Putin has foreign agents on his official council? Please explain that to me, the very notion of Russian councils to Russian president being infiltrated is disturbing, what the fuck your counterintelligence is doing?
On May 20 2014 22:36 PaleMan wrote: not to mention Svetlana Gannushkina (Светлана Ганнушкина) (who was main figure behind this report) is working for Memorial Human Rights Centre which is sponsored by National Endowment for Democracy, USAID, Open Society Institute, Ford Foundation, Henry M. Jackson Foundation, Bradley Foundation and Guggenheim Foundation since its establishment Memorial Human Rights Centre was so not pleased with the the NGO's law
expecting gg any second now.
@roman i''m saying that report is unreliable.
I can agree, it is probably as reliable as the official results. I just sourced it to cast doubt on the official results.
and of course elections of 25th May in Ukraine will be super fair and honest, right?
I can bet that 25th May election will be more fair and honest than Crimea/Donbass hoaxes. You can't be more dishonest than it was there, even your government admitted that Crimea hoax had in reality 50% of support with 30% turnout (around 15% of population) opposite to official 95% with over 80% of turnout.
i already wrote several times that president council consist mostly of opposition and USA worshipers and i'm surpized their "data" didn't show 95% of crimeans want to be with Ukraine those ppl in that council in 90s wanted and openly declared Russia must have no army, no factories and give oil and gas for free in the name of democracy etc.
Yeah no, i don't buy it.
On May 5th, the Russian President's Human Rights Council posted a report to their site about human rights in Crimea based on interviews with roughly 20 local human rights activists conducted over the course of two and a half days.[132] The report estimated that a "vast majority of the citizens of Sevastopol voted in favor of unification with Russia in the referendum (50-80%); in Crimea, various data show that 50-60% voted for unification with Russia, with a turnout of 30-50%," suggesting that only 15-30% of Crimeans actually voted for annexation.[133][134]. On 7 May the Council stated that the report was not an official position of the Council.[135]
So you are saying that official results of Crimean referendum are fair and square?
and you are saying that 20 human right activists know better?
Nope. I am saying that Crimean referendum has been doctored, and just gave an example source.
summary just for you: thx to nunez
On May 5th, the Russian President's Human Rights Council posted a report to their site about human rights in Crimea based on interviews with roughly 20 local human rights activists conducted over the course of two and a half days.[132] The report estimated that a "vast majority of the citizens of Sevastopol voted in favor of unification with Russia in the referendum (50-80%); in Crimea, various data show that 50-60% voted for unification with Russia, with a turnout of 30-50%," suggesting that only 15-30% of Crimeans actually voted for annexation.[133][134]. On 7 May the Council stated that the report was not an official position of the Council.[135]
not to mention Svetlana Gannushkina (Светлана Ганнушкина) (who was main figure behind this report) is working for Memorial Human Rights Centre which is sponsored by National Endowment for Democracy, USAID, Open Society Institute, Ford Foundation, Henry M. Jackson Foundation, Bradley Foundation and Guggenheim Foundation since its establishment Memorial Human Rights Centre was so not pleased with the the NGO's law
so your source is invalid and biased, provide more reliable source thank you
How in the gods name Putin has foreign agents on his official council? Please explain that to me, the very notion of Russian councils to Russian president being infiltrated is disturbing, what the fuck your counterintelligence is doing?
Roman, you will not believe what i will tell you now i'd never believe it myself but i witnessed it
can you imagine main TV channels in your country telling you every day that you suck, you are dirty pig, you are useless, you country is evil dirty shithole and always been and it will never be good you are guilty in everything bad what happened to this world etc.
hard to believe, eh? but that's how russian TV portrayed the reality in 90's once again - i'd never believe it myself but i saw it with my eyes and listened with my own ears day by day during chechen war one of the top 3 channels portrayed chechens and terrorist from all over the world who helped them as heroes and russian army forces as murderers
every position in goverment was secured by people whos only mission was to destroy anything could help Russia to be better
there is a lot of those ppl right now too!
hell, Putin is one of them, but all of a sudden he decided to betray our pro-western elite and do something for Russia instead of only stealing, wrecking and pleasing US/EU
On May 20 2014 22:20 PaleMan wrote: @Cheerio you want me watch 54 minutes of some TV news while i don't watch TV at all? no thanks
I know there is a lot of lies in russian media just as much as in western
the problem is you and other participants of this thread think western media never lie and always tell truth while evil russian media lie non-stop
Edit: watched the 4:45 mark - they fucked up i think
You are incorrect. We have had shitloads of proof of obvious lies from russian media in this thread. We don't have any of that from western media, or at least reliable western media. Because unlike russian ones, we actually have multiple different news sources that are not all the same.
Sometimes some are wrong. Sometimes some even lie. None of them are lying as often or as reliably as the propaganda apparatus russia calls media. So no. Russian Media does not lie as much as western media. It lies A LOT more.
On May 20 2014 22:20 PaleMan wrote: @Cheerio you want me watch 54 minutes of some TV news while i don't watch TV at all? no thanks
I know there is a lot of lies in russian media just as much as in western
the problem is you and other participants of this thread think western media never lie and always tell truth while evil russian media lie non-stop
Edit: watched the 4:45 mark - they fucked up i think
the thing is that their fuck up can be blamed on Ukrainian news actually. The old 2012 footage was posted by somebody as a video of separatistic leader near Kramatorsk getting killed by Ukrainian army. The video got picked up by lesser Ukrainian internet news and got reposted. Russian news saw that, figured out that no separatistic leaders got killed, and decided that's the footage of some civilian getting killed. So they posted the fake footage. None of big Ukrainian TV news sources posted the footage. So though it can be said that both Russian and Ukrainian news are fake, you can see the difference: big Russian TV news are at the same level as small internet Ukrainian ones.
@fjodorov shaky report and the people behind it apparently have ties to us govt agencies (usaid and ned) who are funelling freedom skrill into maidan and ukraine (along with omidyar). they're prone to supporting regimes that allows us vamps to suck the country dry and subverting those that don't, using f.ex disinfo and propaganda.
@roman it doesn't cast any doubts on the results, it casts doubts on your willingness to apply critical thinking.
If first hand sources out of Russia aren't good enough for you then discussing anything basically doesn't make any sense. 97% acceptance? Even North Korea is dreaming of such numbers. If you're so caught up in your Russian propaganda then you're mindfucked beyond repair.
it doesn't cast any doubts on the results, it casts doubts on your willingness to apply critical thinking.
Just because you parrot everything that comes out of the Russian media while wearing your tinfoil hat doesn't make you a critical thinker, it just means that the Russian money on RT international was well spent.
hell, Putin is one of them, but all of a sudden he decided to betray our pro-western elite and do something for Russia instead of only stealing, wrecking and pleasing US/EU
Yeah, life is hard in Russia, mainly because of the evil Western elites and Putin is your great saviour.. we get it.
On May 21 2014 00:03 nunez wrote: the people behind it apparently have ties to us govt agencies (usaid and ned) who are funelling freedom skrill into maidan and ukraine ...
If you are using links that support your statement, make sure that they have something to do with the statement you are making. Neither of those links have ANYTHING to do with the report being tied to US agencies, or Svetlana being tied to US agencies.
So far all we know about Svetlana is that she was a Math professor at Moscow state university and worked as a human rights activist....(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svetlana_Gannushkina).
As to the president's council they post a lot of pro-Russia bullshit too. It seems that they've allowed some honest people to join also, to make it seem more legitimate.
As to Crimea, I'm quite sure that most of Crimea was for annexation but 82% voting for annexation seems suspicious due to the fact that only 58% of Crimeans are Russian. If you look at polling numbers from recent years, only about 70% were for annexation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_referendum,_2014#Polling
I'll admit though that my main suspicion for the voting results being inflated is that it was Russia and Russia doesn't give a shit about democracy, fair-voting,etc.
On May 21 2014 00:03 nunez wrote: @fjodorov shaky report and the people behind it apparently have ties to us govt agencies (usaid and ned) who are funelling freedom skrill into maidan and ukraine (along with omidyar). they're prone to supporting regimes that allows us vamps to suck the country dry and subverting those that don't, using f.ex disinfo and propaganda.
@roman it doesn't cast any doubts on the results, it casts doubts on your willingness to apply critical thinking.
Look at nunez, he is so NOT mainstream so he must be a critical thinker, lol. Done talking to ya mate. Cya.
EPT
