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On May 21 2014 12:11 marigoldran wrote:Ukraine's military is so incompetent that it's actually winning the propaganda war (the one that counts). The Russian narrative of the Kiev government as power-hungry "fascists" is being invalidated by the incompetence of the Ukrainian military. Title says it all: Ukraine's Military Is Raising Money Through Text Donations And It's Going To Need Them http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/20/ukraine-military-text-donations_n_5358507.html
what does it have to do with competence though?
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On May 21 2014 15:36 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 12:23 marigoldran wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/russian-reporters-held-ukraine-had-missiles-us-221417508.htmlRussian "journalists" are captured in East Ukraine with anti-aircraft missiles. Of course this does not necessarily mean that Russia is involved in arming the separatists. Perhaps they're just random journalists who carry anti-aircraft missiles for personal protection. After all, we have to be fair and objective. Just because the Russians supported the separatists in Crimea does not necessarily mean they support the separatists in East Ukraine. We must keep an open mind. Journalism in Russia is very different from journalism in the West. Perhaps it's standard policy for Russian journalists to carry anti-air capabilities. There are more sources that Russia is involving its journalists in the war: This is especially despicable as journalists need to be seen as independent bystanders for their own protection. This endangers the lives of thousands of journalists around the world. Which probably suits the Kremlin just perfect.
ok this can't be clearly confirmed but it looked to me that the guy who was heard best all the time was actually the camera man, which makes sense, since he was the only one in the direct proximity to it all the time. Why this is important is that he was actively giving instructions and information to the shooting guys. Given the slang he used I would not be surprised if he has extensive military experience. Nice find. This looks a shrewd strategy indeed: they put up an unarmed "press" cameraman. If they shoot him they have a shot/injured civilian+journalist to make a great story of. And if they don't, they have a great addition to the squad which can provide information and directions.
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Graham W Philips, RT paid shouting mouth, ye really a valid source.
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and who is filming this cheerio?
what's your point roman? you think it's ok that journalists are being kidnapped as long as they're not reporting from maidans perspective?
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do you know how to use capitals nunez?
User was warned for this post
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AND WHO IS FILMING THIS CHEERIO?
User was warned for this post
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On May 21 2014 22:37 Cheerio wrote:what does it have to do with competence though?
"Fascists" are known historically as the people who goose-stepped their military throughout Europe and a third of Russia, crushing mighty armies in its path. The Ukrainian military on the other hand is probably about as far from "fascist" levels of martial competence as you can possibly get. They're trying to raise money through the internet equivalent of brownie sales.
This is not necessarily a bad thing. Their incompetence is winning them international sympathy points, as the underdogs being bullied by the Russian sponsored, Spetznaz-trained insurgents. This is how it's being played out in the Western press.
Contrast it to Syria, where the situation spiraled into civil war in large part because the former government was perceived as a totalitarian bully willing to shell civilian populations to stifle dissent. Ukraine is doing a better job (so far) of avoiding a civil war than Syria, in large part due to their incompetence.
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On May 21 2014 22:48 nunez wrote:
and who is filming this cheerio?
what's your point roman? you think it's ok that journalists are being kidnapped as long as they're not reporting from maidans perspective?
Nope it's not. I tend to think there was something else on the line than not reporting from maidan perspective.
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On May 21 2014 22:55 marigoldran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 22:37 Cheerio wrote:On May 21 2014 12:11 marigoldran wrote:Ukraine's military is so incompetent that it's actually winning the propaganda war (the one that counts). The Russian narrative of the Kiev government as power-hungry "fascists" is being invalidated by the incompetence of the Ukrainian military. Title says it all: Ukraine's Military Is Raising Money Through Text Donations And It's Going To Need Them http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/20/ukraine-military-text-donations_n_5358507.html what does it have to do with competence though? "Fascists" are known historically as the people who goose-stepped their military throughout Europe and a third of Russia, crushing mighty armies in its path. The Ukrainian military on the other hand is probably about as far from "fascist" levels of martial competence as you can possibly get. They're trying to raise money through the internet equivalent of brownie sales. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Their incompetence is winning them international sympathy points, as the underdogs being bullied by the Russian sponsored, Spetznaz-trained insurgents. This is how it's being played out in the Western press. Contrast it to Syria, where the situation spiraled into civil war in large part because the former government was perceived as a totalitarian bully willing to shell civilian populations to stifle dissent. Ukraine is doing a better job (so far) of avoiding a civil war than them in large part due to their incompetence.
When you say Fascists, I think of Italy during 2nd WW and those guys were opposite of what you described here..
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Most people think of the Germans. I'm pretty sure when the Russian media talks about fascists, they're referring to the Germans, not the Italians.
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@roman
do you got anything to back that up? or is it prejudice?
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On May 21 2014 23:03 nunez wrote:
@roman
do you got anything to back that up? or is it prejudice?
It's common sense. In my perception of the world people don't get detained for simply being "journalists".
Unless we talk about RF, NK and other shitholes.
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what about that vice guy who was detained or irna krat[sic]?
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From what I know vice guy was detained by terrorists. This aint detention by authorithies.
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On May 21 2014 22:55 marigoldran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 22:37 Cheerio wrote:On May 21 2014 12:11 marigoldran wrote:Ukraine's military is so incompetent that it's actually winning the propaganda war (the one that counts). The Russian narrative of the Kiev government as power-hungry "fascists" is being invalidated by the incompetence of the Ukrainian military. Title says it all: Ukraine's Military Is Raising Money Through Text Donations And It's Going To Need Them http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/20/ukraine-military-text-donations_n_5358507.html what does it have to do with competence though? "Fascists" are known historically as the people who goose-stepped their military throughout Europe and a third of Russia, crushing mighty armies in its path. The Ukrainian military on the other hand is probably about as far from "fascist" levels of martial competence as you can possibly get. They're trying to raise money through the internet equivalent of brownie sales. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Their incompetence is winning them international sympathy points, as the underdogs being bullied by the Russian sponsored, Spetznaz-trained insurgents. This is how it's being played out in the Western press. Contrast it to Syria, where the situation spiraled into civil war in large part because the former government was perceived as a totalitarian bully willing to shell civilian populations to stifle dissent. Ukraine is doing a better job (so far) of avoiding a civil war than Syria, in large part due to their incompetence.
I dont get it. How managing to avoid deaths among civil population can be viewed as incompetence?
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but russian authorities detaining journos is a no-go?
because unlike ukraine, russia is a 'shithole'... LOL.
let me try this... i think all of eastern-europe is are corrupt shitholes, it would be ok if the real democracies in western-europe started abducting journos (regardless of nationality) working for eastern-european media because of this fact, but they have no right to detain journos working for western-european media.
oh, that's not very nice!
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@ Nunez
Russian journalists carry anti-air missiles. That seems sort of iffy to me. Perhaps I'm missing a cultural difference here, but I think journalists are not supposed to go to conflict zones carrying heavy weaponry. Am I wrong?
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talking about graham phillips mari. and that claim is only backed by ukrainians on the ground, according to us govt, so i wouldn't put any money on it.
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And you trust... RT instead?
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EPT
