EPTUkraine Crisis - Page 272
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On March 12 2014 04:07 darkness wrote: EU and US are playing a bit risky game with Russia. Russia probably feels like US would feel if Canada or UK were pro-Russia. Either way, I hope things can go back to normal while preventing a war as well. there have been governments in Canada that are antagonistic to the United States, the difference is that the US doesnt have all its news channels start unanimously calling the Canadian government a nest of fascists who will unleash genocide on Americans living in Canada. | ||
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Acertos
France852 Posts
On March 12 2014 03:28 MikeMM wrote: I agree that Russia has its flows. I just want to say that neither actual Ukrainian goverment nor USA nor EU are saints. Do you approve invasion in Iraq and Afganistan? Do you aprove USA spying? Do you approve that Kosovo left Serbia? Do you approve revolution in Ukraine? I don t approve the war in Irak because the revolution should have come from the people and not the exterior, probably Saddam Hssein would have fallen during the arab spring. I approve the war in Afghanistan because at the time it was literally controled by a huge group of terrorists and a revolution seemed impossible. A country which backed up terrorism heavily with huge evidencies. I don t really approve of US spying but knowing the lack of morals of China Russia NK Iran (which are spying too), it s not so condamnable. I approve of Kosovo leaving Serbia because a region populated by a huge majority of people from a certain etnicity should have its own sovereinity. I approve the ukr revolution because first calm revolution and protests were never and will never be able to bring down oligarchs, and because it s a revolution made by the people and not a few armed fascists (then it would be a coup d etat) to bring down an oligarch. Now revolutions were never amd will never be perfect but they are the first step for the better, France is the prime example.of that. So yes viva la revolucion even if it brings another oligarch, then another revolution will be needed until all the oligarchs have exiled. And what other countries have done doesn t justify the conduct of Russia which is fascist like. | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
I found a few pictures from the election: ![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fvf74dqeQ9w/Ux2yRYEtfZI/AAAAAAAADH8/5cV6PYMML2s/s1600/Abgeordenter+bei+der+Abwahl+des+Pr%25C3%25A4sidenten+-.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LJKv3_m_8qA/Ux2E7MqugnI/AAAAAAAADHI/0sJyxRpQW-E/s1600/zwei+Hände+Abstimmung+-.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TSf7Co1JQN8/Ux2E_nbgWVI/AAAAAAAADHQ/7SjUPd900tg/s1600/Jazenjuk+zwei+Hände+Abstimmung+-.jpg) Interesting, won't you say? Seems, that a few people had more than one vote... | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13407 Posts
On March 12 2014 04:31 Geisterkarle wrote: Because many people here say, that the current prime minister of the Ukraine was elected by the majority of the parliament... I found a few pictures from the election: Interesting, won't you say? Seems, that a few people had more than one vote... How do we explain away this one then? Thats pretty crazy. | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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Saryph
United States1955 Posts
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On March 12 2014 04:31 Geisterkarle wrote: Because many people here say, that the current prime minister of the Ukraine was elected by the majority of the parliament... I found a few pictures from the election: Interesting, won't you say? Seems, that a few people had more than one vote... I too often see people rig elections to hold more elections, its the most natural thing for fascists to do. http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/03/ex-soviet-central-asia The events in Ukraine pose at least two worries for the ageing strongmen of Central Asia. The initial success of the anti-government protests in Kiev might serve as inspiration for further revolutions to the east. On the other hand, Vladimir Putin's response might come to look like a blueprint for a future Russian invasion. Both possibilities must be on the minds of the post-Soviet region’s autocrats. The crisis in Ukraine has exposed what look like neo-imperial appetites on the part of their former overlord. Publicly, Central Asia’s ruling elite has said almost nothing about events in Ukraine, not even about the Russian government’s efforts to break Crimea away from the rest of Ukraine on the grounds that it must protect Russian speakers abroad. They have been frightened into a tricky balancing act. They must wish neither to alienate Russia, with its immense economic leverage on their economies, nor to support secessionism at home. In the words of Parviz Mullojanov, a political analyst in Tajikistan, “Russia is promoting separatism. For Central Asian countries, this is dangerous. They know they could be next.” | ||
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AlternativeEgo
Sweden17309 Posts
On March 12 2014 04:34 corumjhaelen wrote: ^ that's typical of French Parliament btw. Just food for thought. Not unheard of here in Sweden either. They just have their party-buddies click for them if they are not present for some reason. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
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Saryph
United States1955 Posts
On March 12 2014 04:44 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I don't understand, is Crimea independent now and the referendum is to join Russia, or how does it work? The referendum is to either join Russia, or become more independent, giving the Crimean government the authority to join Russia, which they say they're going to do/already have done. All while Russian troops are roaming the streets, are laying siege to military bases, etc. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
To be honest - absolute no. It feel wrong and weird for me. Those guys who lead parties - it seems that they don't want to go from cratch because they have their stable 50 places in parlament and it's enough for them. Prokhorov went to elections thinking that middle-class and businessmans will support him as well as Northern regions (he was head of Norilsky Nikel) but my granddad was head engineer who was developing almost everything which worked with mining in USSR and after USSR collapse, noone here updated it, Prokhorov wasn't even bothered to pay for cleaning stations. And middle-class either don't support him because he was involved in so many scandals that people don't trust him in almost anything. So, let him rule Brooklyn Nets i guess. To speak about leading party - i guess, Putin is surfing for some kind of heir right now but can't find. Medvedev didn't have a lot of authority in country besides some groups of students to say the least. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On March 12 2014 04:47 Saryph wrote: The referendum is to either join Russia, or become more independent, giving the Crimean government the authority to join Russia, which they say they're going to do/already have done. All while Russian troops are roaming the streets, are laying siege to military bases, etc. What I mean is that Wikipedia points here claming that on March 11, Crimean parliament declared independence. So is Crimea currently, by its own law, technically independent now with the referendum giving it back to either Ukraine or Russia, or is it still officially part of Ukraine? | ||
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Saryph
United States1955 Posts
On March 12 2014 04:50 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: What I mean is that Wikipedia points here claming that on March 11, Crimean parliament declared independence. So is Crimea currently, by its own law, technically independent now with the referendum giving it back to either Ukraine or Russia, or is it still officially part of Ukraine? Honestly, it depends on who you ask. P.S. I don't believe that Crimea has the legal authority to make that decision. Their new government can claim they are independent from Ukraine, but that doesn't mean it actually is. If you say your property isn't a part of your country, that does not make it true. Plus what is the referendum supposed to be about then, considering that the only options of the referendum are to join Russia? | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On March 12 2014 04:48 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: To speak about leading party - i guess, Putin is surfing for some kind of heir right now but can't find. Medvedev didn't have a lot of authority in country besides some groups of students to say the least. igor sechin will be the heir. but not until another prime minister-president turn around or putin dies. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 12 2014 04:54 Sub40APM wrote: igor sechin will be the heir. but not until another prime minister-president turn around or putin dies. Nah, he won't be chosen. I would have expect Sergei Ivanov but we'll see. There is a lot of time to 2018. | ||
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Saihv
Finland54 Posts
On March 12 2014 04:50 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: What I mean is that Wikipedia points here claming that on March 11, Crimean parliament declared independence. So is Crimea currently, by its own law, technically independent now with the referendum giving it back to either Ukraine or Russia, or is it still officially part of Ukraine? Political experts here in Finland have said that the vote itself is either: YES join Russia now or YES join Russia but later than previous option. source: http://yle.fi/uutiset/krimin_kansanaanestyslipussa_kaksi_vaihtoehtoa_kylla_ja_kylla_liittymiselle_venajaan/7131723 | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
http://hinter-der-fichte.blogspot.de/2014/03/ukraine-die-kernluge-von-der-legitimen.html It's German. I wouldn't take all for granted there, because it looks quite "left", but even if we only accept a few things, you have to think about what's happening there... | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22307 Posts
On March 12 2014 04:50 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: What I mean is that Wikipedia points here claming that on March 11, Crimean parliament declared independence. So is Crimea currently, by its own law, technically independent now with the referendum giving it back to either Ukraine or Russia, or is it still officially part of Ukraine? Officially they do not have the power to declare it atm. The referendum is about 1) join Russia 2) Go back to a constitution that gives them the power to join Russia. there is no 3e option to keep things as they are. Hence why people are calling it a scam because its obvious what they will do with the power from option 2. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On March 12 2014 04:31 Geisterkarle wrote: Because many people here say, that the current prime minister of the Ukraine was elected by the majority of the parliament... I found a few pictures from the election: + Show Spoiler + Interesting, won't you say? Seems, that a few people had more than one vote... This is called `piano voting' and it was something that the Rada was accused of especially in 2013. Now, the real question is, are those pictures of the vote on Yatsenyuk or some random photos from all those times where it actually happened in the Rada under Yanukovich's rule. *** On actual news, looks like there will be no real sanctions: Furthermore, EU ministers meet on Monday, i.e., AFTER the referendum on the 16th. *** Also, some humour 102% Note that the website for the referendum is referendum2014.RU | ||
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