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Where are the female casters? - Page 5

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shin_toss
Profile Joined May 2010
Philippines2589 Posts
July 28 2013 13:30 GMT
#81
GSL have one and I think BW OSL has one too. ..
AKMU / IU
Fus
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1112 Posts
July 28 2013 13:35 GMT
#82
It could be because almost no females are interessted in sc2 compared to how many males are, if we look at deep dedication for the game there are even less females and i belive that dedication should be mandatory for a caster, though the male crowd likes female voices so mabie we will have a proffesional female caster in the future.
NaNiwa | Innovation | Flash | DeMuslim ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Cirqueenflex
Profile Joined October 2010
499 Posts
July 28 2013 13:47 GMT
#83
somehow this thread reminds me of Vera Lynn, the first female womanly GM on both EU and NA server. huehuehue
Give a man a fire, you keep him warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.
revel8
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom3022 Posts
July 28 2013 13:54 GMT
#84
There are not many women in the SC2 scene, in any capacity. It is a male-dominated environment.

The demographics of the scene tend to be young males who are either caucasian or asian. If you look at the crowd scenes in any major SC2 LAN then you will see that this is universally the case. This is also reflected in the casters and pro-gamers. The scene could probably be more welcoming to other demographics.

SC2 is not a computer game that really appeals to most females. It is by nature a war game and not really marketed towards females. I am curious whether HoTS had a higher percentage of female buyers compared to WoL, due to the main protagonist Kerrigan being a female. Starcraft is a game about macho marines fighting a space war and creepy bug-like aliens. Such concepts seem more prone to appeal to men rather than women. Warhammer 40K has similar concepts and a similar male-dominated fanbase.

I think there are increasingly more women playing games and this is a good thing, but I do still think that they generally tend to prefer RPG's such as The Last of Us rather than war games or RTS games like SC2 or COD. I think games such as the Last of Us or Mass Effect series show that games can appeal to women a great deal. SC2, FIFA and COD will always be male dominated games simply due to the nature of these games holding more appeal to men.

I think the lack of female casters is a consequence of SC2 being a game that attracts mainly males. Obviously you could change the game to appeal to females more, but then it would be a different game entirely.
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
July 28 2013 14:08 GMT
#85
On July 28 2013 22:02 Za7oX wrote:
The peak of female commentary was Kelly Milkies. She set such a high standard that others are afraid to follow her.

I'm sorry I laughed at that comment :'(
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
July 28 2013 14:11 GMT
#86
On July 28 2013 22:09 Entropia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2013 21:58 Salient wrote:
Most women don't like hardcore games like Starcraft or competitive FPS. I don't know why. It could be cultural or biological, or both. It doesn't really matter why. The fact is most chicks don't dig this sort of thing.

This.
I think it's biological, women simply don't enjoy measuring the lenght of their penis like we do.

My favorite post of today, well done.

Probably fairly accurate as well, I really wouldn't be surprised.
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
agahamsorr0w
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands359 Posts
July 28 2013 14:16 GMT
#87
The male brain gets impaled when he sees a good looking woman. There would be no point in listening. Also its hard to focus on females voice.
OrchidZerg
Profile Joined December 2011
United States32 Posts
July 28 2013 14:16 GMT
#88
On July 28 2013 19:16 Thylacindae wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2013 19:12 Ragnarork wrote:
On July 28 2013 19:10 grs wrote:
On July 28 2013 19:06 pmp10 wrote:
They are too busy hosting or just looking pretty to cast.
Like it or not casting takes experience knowledge and a bit of luck to break into existing clique.
Girls for whatever reasons have never been drawn to hardcore competitive gaming.
On July 28 2013 19:05 LiFTinG wrote:
Scarlett does have a Y chromosome actually

I'd edit that out if I were you.

Why? There is nothing wrong about that. Don't confuse sex with gender.


People decide. You have nothing to infer from their chromosomes.
Scarlett asks us to consider her a women, just do so. Chromosomes don't matter.


That's like saying ''He is black but asks us to consider him white. Skin colour doesen't matter.''

It does matter. I will call her female, because I got respect for her, but when talking conrecetely about gender, I will admit, that Scarlett has an Y chromosome.


Actually, her gender is concretely female. Gender is fluid and not determined by biological sex, which also means any conversation about chromosomes is pointless.
jakethesnake
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada4948 Posts
July 28 2013 14:19 GMT
#89
Part of it has to be a numbers game - there are just way more men in the SC2 scene than women.

Second, when you read some of the comments in this thread, reddit, or anywhere else, it is hard to imagine why any woman would want to be in this scene. I mean, this scene can treat up-and-coming casters pretty terrible, just imagine how much worse it would be if they were female. They wouldn't have time to develop an incredibly thick skin - they would need to start with one along with a lot of willpower and confidence. I think it'd be great if there were female casters, but I don't blame anyone for not wanting to enter that arena when this community is the way it is.
Community Newsjjakji || jjakji || jjakji || jjakji || jjakji || jjakji || jjakji nshoseo.jpg
graNite
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany4434 Posts
July 28 2013 14:33 GMT
#90
On July 28 2013 18:59 Gnusnu wrote:
There just aren't that many. I don't see the big deal about it.

kellyMILKIES casted the GSL briefly in 2011.


yeah that was great :D
she called the hellions racing cars
"Oink oink, bitches" - Tasteless on Pigbaby winning a map against Flash
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
July 28 2013 14:46 GMT
#91
As a general point, yes, the problem is a smaller female fanbase. But that is not really the issue. It's that we don't present a welcoming face to women who like games. Yes, even with perfect equality, the ratio will probably be skewed. But don't pretend we're there yet. We aren't even close, and this thread is testimony to that fact.

On July 28 2013 22:21 H0i wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2013 22:10 Yoav wrote:And even Day[9], whom my girlfriend loves to watch and discuss, does occasionally use language (e.g. "rape") that can be understood as hostile to women.


Although sexism is a very bad thing, if people believe the word "rape" is hostile to women, then they are truly exaggerating. Then we are just looking for something to be offended by, instead of pointing out an actual issue. Men can be the victim of rape as well, although this generally happens to them at very young age and less so at mature age. Additionally, I see no reason to ignore the context. If the word rape is used to describe a situation, in which one player completely destroys the other player, then what is wrong with that? It is just a game after all, and not real rape.

With the "correct" point of view, anything can be understood as hostile and offensive to anything. Having this attitude does not help to fix the real problems, and only distracts from them.


And this is the problem. You're deflecting the issue and failing to understand that in emotional contexts, emotional reactions are relevant. If you're trying to present a good face to Rwandans, don't joke about genocide. If you're trying to welcome women, you don't joke about rape. If you're trying to appeal to Roman legionaries, don't use the word "decimate." Saying that genocides don't just happen to Rwandans is missing the point. Rape is an offensive term in the usage of "completely destroy," especially in terms of the valuation implicit (good/honorable to rape, bad/dishonorable to be raped). Language is powerful, and you have to think about the terms you use if you mean to present a good face to the world.
partouf
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Netherlands405 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-28 15:04:54
July 28 2013 14:46 GMT
#92
On July 28 2013 21:43 ACrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2013 21:19 faderedguy wrote:
Well, there's one right now in fact, casting sea masters cup on twitch at basetradetv lol
@zepphsc2 is the female caster I believe

Yep, and the twitch chat unfortunately has a lot of examples of the aforementioned sexist stuff. She is actually pretty decent as a caster, nothing spectacular certainly, but solid casting all around.


Basetradetv's chat mostly in jest, no real sexism like in other chats to be honest, but if you feel like that, ok.

On July 28 2013 19:28 Grovbolle wrote:
https://twitter.com/TheyCallMePansy

Not an sc2 caster though, I believe she used to do a lot of CS and now she casts WoT. Works for ESL/Turtle Entertainment


Pansy is pretty cool; CS, WoT, CoD and she plays a lot herself as well.

But really, having not read all comments, there's a couple of womenfolk that come to mind that I've watched casting (@Eleine_Sun @Cheesemuffinish but they don't cast anymore), but I feel they didn't really fancy dedicating themselves to 1 game, or never really prioritized casting over other things in life. Currently I only know @zepphsc2 and @ZGGaming for SC2. I think at one point Soë cast sc2 games as well, right? Yeah and @maddelisk edit: oh and @LivinpinkSC2 casts in french sometimes, I think? (edit: and that Becci girl I guess from Mori's german stream, but I haven't heard her myself)

I think the main thing about SC2 casting is that you need a lot of stamina and ability to not get tired after hours and hours of casting, it might just start feeling like a chore. So, if I had to take a guess, is that someone needs to somehow introduce a more fun and playful way of casting a tournament that not just consists of talking about the games. Although I'm not exactly sure how that would look like, maybe with a lot more interaction with people or custom games than normal...

My 2 cents.
[update twitchuser set banned=1 where lastmessage like '%nohomo%';] - twitter.com/@partouf
Tedde93
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden169 Posts
July 28 2013 14:52 GMT
#93
You can't really quote that study and say it applies to starcraft, for all we know it probably counts games as farmville. Though you can look at other other "similair" games like lol or wow, wow had 10% where as lol had something like less than 10%, just because females play games doesn't mean they play the same games.
Patiance is the element of succes"
Arkeda
Profile Joined December 2012
24 Posts
July 28 2013 14:53 GMT
#94
On July 28 2013 19:04 Ragnarork wrote:
It's hard to dodge the topic of sexism (and esp. as you said, "latent" sexism) because it might be one of the reasons we don't see that much women in esports at all.

Even though there might not be blatant sexism (like people simply refusing women in these specific domains), we're still in a society that (sadly) qualifies women as weaker and not suited for some jobs/roles. Some people consider it "bad" to lose to a women for example. Some other would say this isn't their "place" etc.

The fact is, even if you don't encounter this kind of behavior directly as a female, there are cases where we witnessed that this atmosphere hold back some women, prevent them to jump in and try these roles, because they consider themselves that it's not their place/role and that they're not suited for that (and in my opinion it's a fucking shame that this can happen, that people belittle themselves because others printed by force this idea in their mind through society...)

Show nested quote +
On July 28 2013 18:54 Chinnro wrote:
How many female casters in nfl, nba, soccer etc? None. It's not that they can't, it's just that positions are usually offered on merit, not based on sex...affirmative action died with the explosion of feminism. I'm sure if theyre an intelligent, experienced, articulate and passionate caster, it doesn't matter what sex they are. If a woman was offered a great casting role the community would dismiss it as gender bias.


So uh, yeah, in a world that is roughly half women, half men, you only find "merit" by men ? Of course, that seems "logical"...
And please respect feminism. Affirmative action didn't die with it. FEMEN aren't feminism.
And about your bolded part, "so don't give caster positions to women because people would think she doesn't merit ?"
You sir, are part of the reasons there's so few women in esports.


You seem to have a stick up your ass about an issue that doesn't exist. In fact didn't Seltzer post before that being a woman *helped* her get into eSports?

There were statistics posted before that men made up the overwhelmingly large majority of StarCraft 2 players. Quite simply there are just more men interested in the game, who are likely to become pros or casters. Or are you also saying sexism prevents women from actually playing the game too?
Dreamer.T
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3584 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-28 14:54:31
July 28 2013 14:53 GMT
#95
On July 28 2013 22:02 Za7oX wrote:
The peak of female commentary was Kelly Milkies. She set such a high standard that others are afraid to follow her.


Actually, one would think more females would be willing to try casting after seeing her performance .

Forever the best, IMMvp <3
Nymzee
Profile Joined June 2013
3929 Posts
July 28 2013 15:02 GMT
#96
Casting should be left to the best people. Not to someone who has boobs or has abs. As much as I would like my casting experience filled with a montage from the YMCA I think listening to Artosis and Tasteless is just as good.
Sufinsil
Profile Joined January 2011
United States760 Posts
July 28 2013 15:06 GMT
#97
The NFL now has 33% female viewership. Its a boys game and boys world sadly and while there is fewer canidates to cast, I doubt many have been given the equal opportunity that their male counterparts has.

Just google "female sports casters" and you see what the problem is. Everything around females in the media is based around looks. While its never the case for male. Thats the big problem.
TyrianSC2
Profile Joined January 2012
Canada52 Posts
July 28 2013 15:09 GMT
#98
On July 28 2013 19:34 Qikz wrote:
Show nested quote +
I haven't noticed a single female caster seems odd and concerning to me


It's odd, but it's not concerning. If there are few women who want to go in to proffesional esports commenating they shouldn't get a free ride to the top purely because they're a woman. There's two women in Korea who cast both Proleague and GSL and they do fine.

Women/Men don't need to have equality in every single sector of human life. If there's no women going for a job for example, why should we force a women into a position?


I support this outlook. Same with every other job out there - the job goes to the most qualified APPLICANT. They must apply first. For example, in the police in my region, it's largely dominated by white males simply because that's 90% of the applicant demographic. That doesn't mean that other races/genders are less qualified, it means they haven't applied or aren't interested. Arms are wide open for them, and when they do, they'll be evaluated at the same level as everyone else - do they meet the expectations of the employer? If they do, great, welcome aboard!

The place for encouragement is in a friend you may know who wants to do it, but is holding themselves back because of wrong mentality - this is where it would be appropriate to jump in and push them, encourage them, get them to take themselves further Goes for both men and women alike. That's just being a good friend.
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
July 28 2013 15:09 GMT
#99
Less women play, so less women cast, by proportion. What's odd?
blobrus
Profile Joined August 2011
4297 Posts
July 28 2013 15:12 GMT
#100
I'd assume the male to female player ratio is about 9:1 male. In the professional level it's probably even higher. Therefore it just makes sense that almost all casters are male.

I honestly don't care either way though, I just want the best casters possible, regardless of gender.
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