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On July 28 2013 19:16 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 19:14 Chinnro wrote:On July 28 2013 19:04 Ragnarork wrote:It's hard to dodge the topic of sexism (and esp. as you said, "latent" sexism) because it might be one of the reasons we don't see that much women in esports at all. Even though there might not be blatant sexism (like people simply refusing women in these specific domains), we're still in a society that (sadly) qualifies women as weaker and not suited for some jobs/roles. Some people consider it "bad" to lose to a women for example. Some other would say this isn't their "place" etc. The fact is, even if you don't encounter this kind of behavior directly as a female, there are cases where we witnessed that this atmosphere hold back some women, prevent them to jump in and try these roles, because they consider themselves that it's not their place/role and that they're not suited for that (and in my opinion it's a fucking shame that this can happen, that people belittle themselves because others printed by force this idea in their mind through society...) On July 28 2013 18:54 Chinnro wrote:
How many female casters in nfl, nba, soccer etc? None. It's not that they can't, it's just that positions are usually offered on merit, not based on sex...affirmative action died with the explosion of feminism. I'm sure if theyre an intelligent, experienced, articulate and passionate caster, it doesn't matter what sex they are. If a woman was offered a great casting role the community would dismiss it as gender bias. So uh, yeah, in a world that is roughly half women, half men, you only find "merit" by men ? Of course, that seems "logical"... And please respect feminism. Affirmative action didn't die with it. FEMEN aren't feminism. And about your bolded part, "so don't give caster positions to women because people would think she doesn't merit ?" You sir, are part of the reasons there's so few women in esports. My wife, and daughter, are both avid gamers. Unfortunately they make up less than 5% of the market....it's a simple numbers game...nothing to do with gender. If you get the 100 best casters together none of them will be female. Get off you high horse, sir. WRONG WRONG AND WRONG ! Girls are NOT 5% of the market ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_video_gamesIt's roughly balanced ! So stop considering they are a very small part of this !
We had the discussion about this Wikipedia entry already. It has a huge flaw because it does not differenciate between what games on what plattforms are played to what extend, etc.
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On July 28 2013 19:05 LiFTinG wrote:
Scarlett does have a Y chromosome actually
you have literally seconds to save your tl account, nuke that shit yo
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On July 28 2013 19:16 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 19:14 Chinnro wrote:On July 28 2013 19:04 Ragnarork wrote:It's hard to dodge the topic of sexism (and esp. as you said, "latent" sexism) because it might be one of the reasons we don't see that much women in esports at all. Even though there might not be blatant sexism (like people simply refusing women in these specific domains), we're still in a society that (sadly) qualifies women as weaker and not suited for some jobs/roles. Some people consider it "bad" to lose to a women for example. Some other would say this isn't their "place" etc. The fact is, even if you don't encounter this kind of behavior directly as a female, there are cases where we witnessed that this atmosphere hold back some women, prevent them to jump in and try these roles, because they consider themselves that it's not their place/role and that they're not suited for that (and in my opinion it's a fucking shame that this can happen, that people belittle themselves because others printed by force this idea in their mind through society...) On July 28 2013 18:54 Chinnro wrote:
How many female casters in nfl, nba, soccer etc? None. It's not that they can't, it's just that positions are usually offered on merit, not based on sex...affirmative action died with the explosion of feminism. I'm sure if theyre an intelligent, experienced, articulate and passionate caster, it doesn't matter what sex they are. If a woman was offered a great casting role the community would dismiss it as gender bias. So uh, yeah, in a world that is roughly half women, half men, you only find "merit" by men ? Of course, that seems "logical"... And please respect feminism. Affirmative action didn't die with it. FEMEN aren't feminism. And about your bolded part, "so don't give caster positions to women because people would think she doesn't merit ?" You sir, are part of the reasons there's so few women in esports. My wife, and daughter, are both avid gamers. Unfortunately they make up less than 5% of the market....it's a simple numbers game...nothing to do with gender. If you get the 100 best casters together none of them will be female. Get off you high horse, sir. WRONG WRONG AND WRONG ! Girls are NOT 5% of the market ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_video_gamesIt's roughly balanced ! So stop considering they are a very small part of this !
Farmville doesn't count o_O
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On July 28 2013 19:16 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 19:14 Chinnro wrote:On July 28 2013 19:04 Ragnarork wrote:It's hard to dodge the topic of sexism (and esp. as you said, "latent" sexism) because it might be one of the reasons we don't see that much women in esports at all. Even though there might not be blatant sexism (like people simply refusing women in these specific domains), we're still in a society that (sadly) qualifies women as weaker and not suited for some jobs/roles. Some people consider it "bad" to lose to a women for example. Some other would say this isn't their "place" etc. The fact is, even if you don't encounter this kind of behavior directly as a female, there are cases where we witnessed that this atmosphere hold back some women, prevent them to jump in and try these roles, because they consider themselves that it's not their place/role and that they're not suited for that (and in my opinion it's a fucking shame that this can happen, that people belittle themselves because others printed by force this idea in their mind through society...) On July 28 2013 18:54 Chinnro wrote:
How many female casters in nfl, nba, soccer etc? None. It's not that they can't, it's just that positions are usually offered on merit, not based on sex...affirmative action died with the explosion of feminism. I'm sure if theyre an intelligent, experienced, articulate and passionate caster, it doesn't matter what sex they are. If a woman was offered a great casting role the community would dismiss it as gender bias. So uh, yeah, in a world that is roughly half women, half men, you only find "merit" by men ? Of course, that seems "logical"... And please respect feminism. Affirmative action didn't die with it. FEMEN aren't feminism. And about your bolded part, "so don't give caster positions to women because people would think she doesn't merit ?" You sir, are part of the reasons there's so few women in esports. My wife, and daughter, are both avid gamers. Unfortunately they make up less than 5% of the market....it's a simple numbers game...nothing to do with gender. If you get the 100 best casters together none of them will be female. Get off you high horse, sir. WRONG WRONG AND WRONG ! Girls are NOT 5% of the market ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_video_gamesIt's roughly balanced ! So stop considering they are a very small part of this !
Well, just because you play video games, doesnt mean you are potential caster. If you are willing too make your living with esports you have to be pretty hardcore into gaming. So looking at all Gamers as a demographic doesnt really make sense. I'm pretty sure way TL has a lot more male users than female ones. Esports recruits from the extremes, and it's still probably far from balanced there.
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France9034 Posts
On July 28 2013 19:18 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 19:16 Ragnarork wrote:On July 28 2013 19:14 Chinnro wrote:On July 28 2013 19:04 Ragnarork wrote:It's hard to dodge the topic of sexism (and esp. as you said, "latent" sexism) because it might be one of the reasons we don't see that much women in esports at all. Even though there might not be blatant sexism (like people simply refusing women in these specific domains), we're still in a society that (sadly) qualifies women as weaker and not suited for some jobs/roles. Some people consider it "bad" to lose to a women for example. Some other would say this isn't their "place" etc. The fact is, even if you don't encounter this kind of behavior directly as a female, there are cases where we witnessed that this atmosphere hold back some women, prevent them to jump in and try these roles, because they consider themselves that it's not their place/role and that they're not suited for that (and in my opinion it's a fucking shame that this can happen, that people belittle themselves because others printed by force this idea in their mind through society...) On July 28 2013 18:54 Chinnro wrote:
How many female casters in nfl, nba, soccer etc? None. It's not that they can't, it's just that positions are usually offered on merit, not based on sex...affirmative action died with the explosion of feminism. I'm sure if theyre an intelligent, experienced, articulate and passionate caster, it doesn't matter what sex they are. If a woman was offered a great casting role the community would dismiss it as gender bias. So uh, yeah, in a world that is roughly half women, half men, you only find "merit" by men ? Of course, that seems "logical"... And please respect feminism. Affirmative action didn't die with it. FEMEN aren't feminism. And about your bolded part, "so don't give caster positions to women because people would think she doesn't merit ?" You sir, are part of the reasons there's so few women in esports. My wife, and daughter, are both avid gamers. Unfortunately they make up less than 5% of the market....it's a simple numbers game...nothing to do with gender. If you get the 100 best casters together none of them will be female. Get off you high horse, sir. WRONG WRONG AND WRONG ! Girls are NOT 5% of the market ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_video_gamesIt's roughly balanced ! So stop considering they are a very small part of this ! It's balanced when you factor in all Sims, MMOs and facebook games. The more competitive and hardcore a game is the less female gamers it has. It's pretty simple really.
First, whatever, it still makes the statement "they're only 5% of the market" false and dangerous. It is sad, but I do agree on the competitive part.
Second, that's interesting, because one of the most ancient esports was the one with the most female participating : Counter-Strike
Then, there still are a lot of women that are into hardcore gaming, more than you'd think, but sadly, this community isn't very women friendly, and that's one of the reasons you think there aren't that much in these kind of games.
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there are female commentators on German football radio. Its a bit weird because they kind of try to emulate that masculine commentating style. Which is bound to fail / to be really awkward. at least in my opinion.
dunno physical sports in general have sex segregation. (definetely not gender segregation, just because you feel like youre gender is female youre not allowed to compete in female competitions for football or track and field athletics because it would be unfair)
Still competitions like chess or starcraft dont have any rulings and no obvious genetical disadvantage for women, yet even those mental sports are dominated by males (sex, not gender).
so makes one wonder if its because of discrimination (because from my experience women arent less intelligent) or if it is something genetical about competing /going on the hunt/ vs emphaty /caring for the family/ from an evolutionary-biological standpoint.
Im not sure if discrimination is that high in gaming. Even though there is a lot of discrimination in general in the world, i think lots of women know how to work that to their advantage.
Im not sure if a discrimation free world is even possible, because where there are differences theres gonna be discrimation (positive/negative alike)
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Wc3 had Bunny. And one more i think... don't remember her right now.
Ah i remember now, her name was Jaczie. Earlier there was another one i think, from SK i believe... idk why SC2 has none which are popular or well known.
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Hm some girl covered DH games and I enjoyed her cast. Only discovered here since she streamed a Jaedong game. Now I forgot the name, but I did follow her on twitter so I might tune in to future casts. So they are there, but of course in very low number, since e-sports is still dominated by men, even if there are millions of girls playing sims or mmorpgs out there. I think we will have a big female caster in the future, it just hasn't happened yet, since the competition is hard.
Edit: Just found here between the people I follow. It's ZombieGrub @ZGGaming. She seems to play too and is the caster for Clarity Gaming.
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..... In the kitchen?
+ Show Spoiler +oh come on, nobody said the joke yet, it had to be done.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On July 28 2013 19:31 Bizeheryer wrote:
in the kitchen
ohhh fuck ya!!! beat ya!
On July 28 2013 18:55 Waxangel wrote:
can we stop saying 'female' when 'women' is equally applicable
lol wat? x.x
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United Kingdom12041 Posts
I haven't noticed a single female caster seems odd and concerning to me
It's odd, but it's not concerning. If there are few women who want to go in to proffesional esports commenating they shouldn't get a free ride to the top purely because they're a woman. There's two women in Korea who cast both Proleague and GSL and they do fine.
Women/Men don't need to have equality in every single sector of human life. If there's no women going for a job for example, why should we force a women into a position?
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On July 28 2013 19:31 MrRicewife wrote:..... In the kitchen? + Show Spoiler +oh come on, nobody said the joke yet, it had to be done.
oh man I was bout to say it 
User was warned for this post
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It is a sad fact that were a good female caster to emerge who was witty, charismatic, knowledgeable and talented, she would be dismissed by a good amount of people because she's a woman, or at least she'd be reduced to her physical attributes pretty quickly.
Every time she casted she'd either have creepy people saying they're in love with her and want to marry her, saying she's "cute" or something else that has nothing to do with her actual talent. After those people had been dealt with there'd be considerable amounts of people saying she was only where she was because of her gender.
I really couldn't be convinced otherwise having seen the shit current female community members have to deal with... but hey, I'd love to be proved wrong and for us to have a good female caster rise through the ranks. It's gonna be harder than by playing because I feel like casting has a low turnover rate and even lower than playing, and we have such a male dominated environment it's just not likely to happen.
Again, I'd love to be proven wrong.
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On July 28 2013 19:31 Bizeheryer wrote:
Dea at TaKe TV
She got a lot of hate and has not casted for months. Many women get hated out of the scene very fast; although in her case - while I don't agree with the hating, I am not unhappy she does not cast anymore.
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France9034 Posts
On July 28 2013 19:34 Qikz wrote:It's odd, but it's not concerning. If there are few women who want to go in to proffesional esports commenating they shouldn't get a free ride to the top purely because they're a woman. There's two women in Korea who cast both Proleague and GSL and they do fine. Women/Men don't need to have equality in every single sector of human life. If there's no women going for a job for example, why should we force a women into a position?
The problem would be if there was actually women that'd like to go for this position (e.g. caster in SC2), but we wouldn't know about them, nor the way they've failed to get to it. If it's purely based on skills, no problem, but if there is sexism invovled, then it becomes a problem, but we don't know about it :/
On July 28 2013 19:35 SgtCoDFish wrote:
It is a sad fact that were a good female caster to emerge who was witty, charismatic, knowledgeable and talented, she would be dismissed by a good amount of people because she's a woman, or at least she'd be reduced to her physical attributes pretty quickly.
Every time she casted she'd either have creepy people saying they're in love with her and want to marry her, saying she's "cute" or something else that has nothing to do with her actual talent. After those people had been dealt with there'd be considerable amounts of people saying she was only where she was because of her gender.
I really couldn't be convinced otherwise having seen the shit current female community members have to deal with... but hey, I'd love to be proved wrong and for us to have a good female caster rise through the ranks. It's gonna be harder than by playing because I feel like casting has a low turnover rate and even lower than playing, and we have such a male dominated environment it's just not likely to happen.
Again, I'd love to be proven wrong.
This, a thousand times.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
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On July 28 2013 19:36 grs wrote:She got a lot of hate and has not casted for months. Many women get hated out of the scene very fast; although in her case - wile I don't agree with the hating, I am not unhappy she does not cast anymore.
i almost forgot about her but i dont think she got a lot of hate.. other casters get similar amount of criticism too like Crash.
I think most of the people were happy for a female casting but werent quite convinced about her knowledge of the game or being too shy on stream. But getting criticism on the internet is not really gender specific.
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has there ever been a TL poll that asks what gender you are?
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EPT
