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On July 28 2013 21:19 faderedguy wrote:
Well, there's one right now in fact, casting sea masters cup on twitch at basetradetv lol
@zepphsc2 is the female caster I believe
Yep, and the twitch chat unfortunately has a lot of examples of the aforementioned sexist stuff. She is actually pretty decent as a caster, nothing spectacular certainly, but solid casting all around.
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lilsusie casted with tasteless
dota 2 has a popular lady caster no?
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On July 28 2013 21:42 neptunusfisk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 21:30 FuzzyJAM wrote:On July 28 2013 20:44 neptunusfisk wrote:On July 28 2013 20:01 eX Killy wrote:
why does it matter? casting isnt for everyone.
if theyre good they will rise, otherwise there's no need to promote mediocre (female, but also includes males if you think im being sexist) casters as anything else other than just mediocre casters. i'd rather ld cast than some random female talk on the mic. i'd also rather knowledgeable female casters cast over having to listen to tobi wan slurp na'vi, but we cant have everything we ask for.
if enough women competed at a higher level in general maybe as they retire we'd have more female casters, but if they cant reach that level of skill/influence/following then there's nothing wrong with getting faded out by the community just as men would. Please. Seriously? Of course we need more women in casting. The only time I've heard a female cast was Maddelisk in aftonbladets Esports-SM, which isn't a huge mainstream tournament. (It was in Swedish, only one match and only on their website.) She did a good job. The worst part is how women only get to ask silly questions to the winners of various games, wait for their answer and then, well, back to the real hosts (that are male and wear three times as much clothing)! But, of course it won't happen since "the scene" is a misogynistic craphole. "Of course"? Why? If women want to get involved, great. If they don't, ok. The reason there are no female casters is pretty simple: women make up a tiny proportion of eSports. Let's not pretend otherwise. You do perhaps believe women can't run business companies and that countries in africa are poor because they haven't tried enough? This kind of reasoning disgusts me.
Congratulations on making a leap of logic few can. Here's some observations: the majority of high flying "good" casters have been in the scene for several years. The scene is predominantly a male based scene, and until recently there were all most no women in the public eye of it, now its almost approaching a percentage similar to my computer science classes. You can draw some conclusions from that.
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On July 28 2013 19:18 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 19:16 Ragnarork wrote:On July 28 2013 19:14 Chinnro wrote:On July 28 2013 19:04 Ragnarork wrote:It's hard to dodge the topic of sexism (and esp. as you said, "latent" sexism) because it might be one of the reasons we don't see that much women in esports at all. Even though there might not be blatant sexism (like people simply refusing women in these specific domains), we're still in a society that (sadly) qualifies women as weaker and not suited for some jobs/roles. Some people consider it "bad" to lose to a women for example. Some other would say this isn't their "place" etc. The fact is, even if you don't encounter this kind of behavior directly as a female, there are cases where we witnessed that this atmosphere hold back some women, prevent them to jump in and try these roles, because they consider themselves that it's not their place/role and that they're not suited for that (and in my opinion it's a fucking shame that this can happen, that people belittle themselves because others printed by force this idea in their mind through society...) On July 28 2013 18:54 Chinnro wrote:
How many female casters in nfl, nba, soccer etc? None. It's not that they can't, it's just that positions are usually offered on merit, not based on sex...affirmative action died with the explosion of feminism. I'm sure if theyre an intelligent, experienced, articulate and passionate caster, it doesn't matter what sex they are. If a woman was offered a great casting role the community would dismiss it as gender bias. So uh, yeah, in a world that is roughly half women, half men, you only find "merit" by men ? Of course, that seems "logical"... And please respect feminism. Affirmative action didn't die with it. FEMEN aren't feminism. And about your bolded part, "so don't give caster positions to women because people would think she doesn't merit ?" You sir, are part of the reasons there's so few women in esports. My wife, and daughter, are both avid gamers. Unfortunately they make up less than 5% of the market....it's a simple numbers game...nothing to do with gender. If you get the 100 best casters together none of them will be female. Get off you high horse, sir. WRONG WRONG AND WRONG ! Girls are NOT 5% of the market ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_video_gamesIt's roughly balanced ! So stop considering they are a very small part of this ! It's balanced when you factor in all Sims, MMOs and facebook games. The more competitive and hardcore a game is the less female gamers it has. It's pretty simple really.
Its only because they haven't been pulled in yet. Its only a matter of time.
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On July 28 2013 21:47 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 21:42 neptunusfisk wrote:On July 28 2013 21:30 FuzzyJAM wrote:On July 28 2013 20:44 neptunusfisk wrote:On July 28 2013 20:01 eX Killy wrote:
why does it matter? casting isnt for everyone.
if theyre good they will rise, otherwise there's no need to promote mediocre (female, but also includes males if you think im being sexist) casters as anything else other than just mediocre casters. i'd rather ld cast than some random female talk on the mic. i'd also rather knowledgeable female casters cast over having to listen to tobi wan slurp na'vi, but we cant have everything we ask for.
if enough women competed at a higher level in general maybe as they retire we'd have more female casters, but if they cant reach that level of skill/influence/following then there's nothing wrong with getting faded out by the community just as men would. Please. Seriously? Of course we need more women in casting. The only time I've heard a female cast was Maddelisk in aftonbladets Esports-SM, which isn't a huge mainstream tournament. (It was in Swedish, only one match and only on their website.) She did a good job. The worst part is how women only get to ask silly questions to the winners of various games, wait for their answer and then, well, back to the real hosts (that are male and wear three times as much clothing)! But, of course it won't happen since "the scene" is a misogynistic craphole. "Of course"? Why? If women want to get involved, great. If they don't, ok. The reason there are no female casters is pretty simple: women make up a tiny proportion of eSports. Let's not pretend otherwise. You do perhaps believe women can't run business companies and that countries in africa are poor because they haven't tried enough? This kind of reasoning disgusts me. Congratulations on making a leap of logic few can.
I'm not saying he or she actually thinks that; I'm just saying that the views expressed are very similar in stupidness and chauvinism.
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On July 28 2013 21:51 neptunusfisk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 21:47 bo1b wrote:On July 28 2013 21:42 neptunusfisk wrote:On July 28 2013 21:30 FuzzyJAM wrote:On July 28 2013 20:44 neptunusfisk wrote:On July 28 2013 20:01 eX Killy wrote:
why does it matter? casting isnt for everyone.
if theyre good they will rise, otherwise there's no need to promote mediocre (female, but also includes males if you think im being sexist) casters as anything else other than just mediocre casters. i'd rather ld cast than some random female talk on the mic. i'd also rather knowledgeable female casters cast over having to listen to tobi wan slurp na'vi, but we cant have everything we ask for.
if enough women competed at a higher level in general maybe as they retire we'd have more female casters, but if they cant reach that level of skill/influence/following then there's nothing wrong with getting faded out by the community just as men would. Please. Seriously? Of course we need more women in casting. The only time I've heard a female cast was Maddelisk in aftonbladets Esports-SM, which isn't a huge mainstream tournament. (It was in Swedish, only one match and only on their website.) She did a good job. The worst part is how women only get to ask silly questions to the winners of various games, wait for their answer and then, well, back to the real hosts (that are male and wear three times as much clothing)! But, of course it won't happen since "the scene" is a misogynistic craphole. "Of course"? Why? If women want to get involved, great. If they don't, ok. The reason there are no female casters is pretty simple: women make up a tiny proportion of eSports. Let's not pretend otherwise. You do perhaps believe women can't run business companies and that countries in africa are poor because they haven't tried enough? This kind of reasoning disgusts me. Congratulations on making a leap of logic few can. I'm not saying he or she actually thinks that; I'm just saying that the views expressed are very similar in stupidness and chauvinism.
You think that the opinion "women make up a tiny proportion of eSports" is at all similar to "You do perhaps believe women can't run business companies and that countries in africa are poor because they haven't tried enough?"
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In dota we have sheever and she does a good job. Started listening to her cast when tobi started to co cast with "Mr Once again blaaaaa". A woman caster or a man I don't care. If it is enjoyable to listen to I am fine with it. If the voice is a pain in the ass I will not.
But I think most women realised how much money they can make buy horny boys that watch their stream on twitch so they don't need to cast. Just play and show a bit skin and the money roles in.
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Most women don't like hardcore games like Starcraft or competitive FPS. I don't know why. It could be cultural or biological, or both. It doesn't really matter why. The fact is most chicks don't dig this sort of thing.
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The peak of female commentary was Kelly Milkies. She set such a high standard that others are afraid to follow her.
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After KellyMilkies...none dares to take the job anymore..she was really something...lol
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As you said, there are relatively few pro-players. To cast you generally need to have some special insight in to the game to make it informative and fun. There are just no high level female casters, because there is not many women in starcraft.
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Zombiegrub nuff said. She is legit.
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On July 28 2013 21:58 Salient wrote:
Most women don't like hardcore games like Starcraft or competitive FPS. I don't know why. It could be cultural or biological, or both. It doesn't really matter why. The fact is most chicks don't dig this sort of thing.
This.
I think it's biological, women simply don't enjoy measuring the lenght of their penis like we do.
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In a better world...
Sadly, the sexism among the gaming community is a major part of what deters people. My girlfriend is a gamer, but is constantly distanced and turned off of getting more involved with games, particularly SC, due to the wide proliferation of attitudes and language that is implicitly or explicitly offensive to women. It's usually nothing that wouldn't be prevalent among a group of middle school boys, but that's the point. The average range for SC players is what... 15-25 or so? There's no good reason for the community as a whole to act as immature as it does. The generally worse behavior that accompanies internet discourse is a part of the hostility. But even in places like TL, which is the best moderated forum I've ever encountered, sexism is rampant, as this thread testifies. And even Day[9], whom my girlfriend loves to watch and discuss, does occasionally use language (e.g. "rape") that can be understood as hostile to women.
I, for one, wish for a more tolerant community, and perhaps that can be found as the average E-sports fan gets older and more mature. But I'm not holding my breath.
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On July 28 2013 22:02 Za7oX wrote:
The peak of female commentary was Kelly Milkies. She set such a high standard that others are afraid to follow her.
Please. There is no need to be a troll. This is not very funny, and you are knowingly just saying stuff to see people get upset. If you don't really care about the topic, or Kelly as a person, then maybe you should just stay away. At very please, just pause to consider how this post is going to reflect on you.
On topic -
The lack of female casters is, I think, a natural consequence of having fewer female gamers. Good casters need a good understanding of the game, and this usually comes from being able to play at some level of competency. If there aren't many female players, then there won't be many female casters.
There are many reasons for this - things like cultural expectations of girls, interests and so on. Personally I think a big stumbling block is the that the community seems to have serious problems in being able to treat women like normal human beings. This is immensely distracting to any female gamer trying to break into the competitive scene, and may even just plain out scare people away.
Edit: For example, I think it is lamentable that in this very thread, some people feel the need to make a kitchen joke. I mean even setting aside that it is sexist... it's so old at this point it is not even funny. But still...
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On July 28 2013 21:51 neptunusfisk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 21:47 bo1b wrote:On July 28 2013 21:42 neptunusfisk wrote:On July 28 2013 21:30 FuzzyJAM wrote:On July 28 2013 20:44 neptunusfisk wrote:On July 28 2013 20:01 eX Killy wrote:
why does it matter? casting isnt for everyone.
if theyre good they will rise, otherwise there's no need to promote mediocre (female, but also includes males if you think im being sexist) casters as anything else other than just mediocre casters. i'd rather ld cast than some random female talk on the mic. i'd also rather knowledgeable female casters cast over having to listen to tobi wan slurp na'vi, but we cant have everything we ask for.
if enough women competed at a higher level in general maybe as they retire we'd have more female casters, but if they cant reach that level of skill/influence/following then there's nothing wrong with getting faded out by the community just as men would. Please. Seriously? Of course we need more women in casting. The only time I've heard a female cast was Maddelisk in aftonbladets Esports-SM, which isn't a huge mainstream tournament. (It was in Swedish, only one match and only on their website.) She did a good job. The worst part is how women only get to ask silly questions to the winners of various games, wait for their answer and then, well, back to the real hosts (that are male and wear three times as much clothing)! But, of course it won't happen since "the scene" is a misogynistic craphole. "Of course"? Why? If women want to get involved, great. If they don't, ok. The reason there are no female casters is pretty simple: women make up a tiny proportion of eSports. Let's not pretend otherwise. You do perhaps believe women can't run business companies and that countries in africa are poor because they haven't tried enough? This kind of reasoning disgusts me. Congratulations on making a leap of logic few can. I'm not saying he or she actually thinks that; I'm just saying that the views expressed are very similar in stupidness and chauvinism.
Could you be less ridiculous, maybe?
I made a statement of fact: women make up a small proportion of eSports. That's not stupid, nor is it ignorant. It's factual. It also very easily explains the lack of female casters.
I mean. . .I can't believe I have to defend myself here. It's almost like you're parodying something, because this is just too stupid.
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On July 28 2013 22:10 Yoav wrote:And even Day[9], whom my girlfriend loves to watch and discuss, does occasionally use language (e.g. "rape") that can be understood as hostile to women.
Although sexism is a very bad thing, if people believe the word "rape" is hostile to women, then they are truly exaggerating. Then we are just looking for something to be offended by, instead of pointing out an actual issue. Men can be the victim of rape as well, although this generally happens to them at very young age and less so at mature age. Additionally, I see no reason to ignore the context. If the word rape is used to describe a situation, in which one player completely destroys the other player, then what is wrong with that? It is just a game after all, and not real rape.
With the "correct" point of view, anything can be understood as hostile and offensive to anything. Having this attitude does not help to fix the real problems, and only distracts from them.
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On July 28 2013 22:04 Gackt_ wrote:
After KellyMilkies...none dares to take the job anymore..she was really something...lol
Well, I mean she wasn't even fluent in english and the tone of her voice was a pain in the ass.
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Not surr if its been said. Generally though casters or commentators of sports come from that sport or other sporting backgrounds. If you want more female casters. We are gonna need mote successful female progamers that have the merits to be casting.
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There aren't many women casters in any sport. People don't have the right to free jobs because of their gender. If 99% of would-be sports casters are men, don't be surprised if you get a distribution of 99% male sports casters.
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EPT
