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On December 22 2013 14:43 iCanada wrote:
Somehow the Oilers are even worse than they were last year.
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It defies logic. It defies life.
How the hell has the entire management team not been shitcanned five times by now?
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Katz would never fire half of his golfing foursome. Thats why the Oilers are so bad. So they get to the links sooner.
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edmonton needs to be cleaned out top to bottom. no one knows what they are doing there. they have a bunch of talent up front but it is being misused. blueline is a dumpster fire. i thought dubnyk was alright prior to this year, but now yeeeeesh.
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Yea. Normally I'm of the belief that talented players make up much of a hockey team. Flyers under John Stevens made the conference finals pretty much because they had good players. Seen that with plenty of other teams. But EDM should simply not be this bad. They have far too much talent, but the blue line is a real hindrance. My feeling for this year was that they might challenge for a playoff spot, but were unlikely to make it. Now they might win the fucking lottery.
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On December 23 2013 10:56 sharkeyanti wrote:
Yea. Normally I'm of the belief that talented players make up much of a hockey team. Flyers under John Stevens made the conference finals pretty much because they had good players. Seen that with plenty of other teams. But EDM should simply not be this bad. They have far too much talent, but the blue line is a real hindrance. My feeling for this year was that they might challenge for a playoff spot, but were unlikely to make it. Now they might win the fucking lottery.
I thought the same. Then I saw that there is no concept of team wide defense. Nobody covers anyone in the defensive zone and thus they give up grade AAA+ scoring chances all the time. Combine that with bad goaltending and you have a recipe for failure.
It really boils down to poor coaching and management. If we had a coach that could teach defense properly and a GM who would remove/replace players that either cannt learn defense or hinder the learning of others our team would stand a chance. Or a GM/Coach that would commit to a chance trading style of north south hockey the team seems to thrive on when the game breaks down to that we might be able to squeak out wins.
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Is it weird that I am slightly more excited for the Alumni game then I am for the actual winter classic?
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And the Oilers beat the Jets 6-2 and on goal number 6:
+ Show Spoiler +16:16 Winnipeg Dustin Byfuglien: 2 minutes, slashing
16:16 Edmonton Nail Yakupov: 10 minutes, misconduct
16:16 Winnipeg Andrew Ladd: 10 minutes, misconduct
16:16 Winnipeg Chris Thorburn: 10 minutes, misconduct
16:16 Winnipeg Zach Bogosian: 5 minutes, spearing
16:16 Winnipeg Bryan Little: 2 minutes, slashing
16:16 Winnipeg Bryan Little: 10 minutes, misconduct
16:16 Edmonton Nail Yakupov: 2 minutes, slashing
16:16 Winnipeg Zach Bogosian: 10 minutes, game misconduct
16:16 Winnipeg Andrew Ladd: 2 minutes, slashing
16:16 Winnipeg Andrew Ladd: 2 minutes, cross checking
Bogosian will get suspended for the spear since every spear comes with a suspension. Curious to see what kinds of fines are handed out though. Usually in blow outs when this happens they fine everyone under the sun
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what the hell happened to niemi. he is king sieve. Crap team, good team, lots of shots, no shots, the guy gets lit up no matter what by 3-4 goals for a month now.
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On December 24 2013 06:27 Slaughter wrote:
Is it weird that I am slightly more excited for the Alumni game then I am for the actual winter classic?
no its not weird. the actual game are between two washed up franchises. at least the myth that holland is a genius and babcock is a tactical god can be finally put to rest. one assembled and overpaid for a mediocre team, the other cant even get them to turtle.
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On December 24 2013 16:27 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 06:27 Slaughter wrote:
Is it weird that I am slightly more excited for the Alumni game then I am for the actual winter classic? no its not weird. the actual game are between two washed up franchises. at least the myth that holland is a genius and babcock is a tactical god can be finally put to rest. one assembled and overpaid for a mediocre team, the other cant even get them to turtle.
The myth can be put to rest...? You realise he's widely acknowledged as one of the best GM's in NHL history?
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On December 24 2013 16:27 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 06:27 Slaughter wrote:
Is it weird that I am slightly more excited for the Alumni game then I am for the actual winter classic? no its not weird. the actual game are between two washed up franchises. at least the myth that holland is a genius and babcock is a tactical god can be finally put to rest. one assembled and overpaid for a mediocre team, the other cant even get them to turtle.
I wouldn't say the Wings are washed up at this point. When they start missing the playoffs multiple years in a row you can argue that.
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On December 24 2013 16:52 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 16:27 Sub40APM wrote:On December 24 2013 06:27 Slaughter wrote:
Is it weird that I am slightly more excited for the Alumni game then I am for the actual winter classic? no its not weird. the actual game are between two washed up franchises. at least the myth that holland is a genius and babcock is a tactical god can be finally put to rest. one assembled and overpaid for a mediocre team, the other cant even get them to turtle. The myth can be put to rest...? You realise he's widely acknowledged as one of the best GM's in NHL history?
probably by the same people who think Burke is a great GM. Holland has wasted the last 4 years, has done nothing to address the Lidstrom-retiring-will-leave-this-team-without-a-real-d-issue and the lack of secondary scoring that appeared as soon as Cleary stopped scoring 20 goals a season. You cant even name a draft pick of his that has had an impact, and the few kids that could be good supporting players have been overcooked in the AHL. His only positive move in the last 4 years has been to get moved to the East where the Red Wings are just another mediocre bottom playoff team. Outwest they'd be racing the Oilers and the Flames for the bottom of the league.
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On December 24 2013 16:59 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 16:27 Sub40APM wrote:On December 24 2013 06:27 Slaughter wrote:
Is it weird that I am slightly more excited for the Alumni game then I am for the actual winter classic? no its not weird. the actual game are between two washed up franchises. at least the myth that holland is a genius and babcock is a tactical god can be finally put to rest. one assembled and overpaid for a mediocre team, the other cant even get them to turtle. I wouldn't say the Wings are washed up at this point. When they start missing the playoffs multiple years in a row you can argue that.
Well, they are in the East. So that might never happen, the degree of ineptitude in that Conference is staggering. But relatively to the expectation of being a Cup contender that they've established from Bowman onward, thats over. Now at best they limp into the second round before Boston or Pittsburgh destroys them.
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On December 24 2013 17:00 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 16:52 GolemMadness wrote:On December 24 2013 16:27 Sub40APM wrote:On December 24 2013 06:27 Slaughter wrote:
Is it weird that I am slightly more excited for the Alumni game then I am for the actual winter classic? no its not weird. the actual game are between two washed up franchises. at least the myth that holland is a genius and babcock is a tactical god can be finally put to rest. one assembled and overpaid for a mediocre team, the other cant even get them to turtle. The myth can be put to rest...? You realise he's widely acknowledged as one of the best GM's in NHL history? probably by the same people who think Burke is a great GM. Holland has wasted the last 4 years, has done nothing to address the Lidstrom-retiring-will-leave-this-team-without-a-real-d-issue and the lack of secondary scoring that appeared as soon as Cleary stopped scoring 20 goals a season. You cant even name a draft pick of his that has had an impact, and the few kids that could be good supporting players have been overcooked in the AHL. His only positive move in the last 4 years has been to get moved to the East where the Red Wings are just another mediocre bottom playoff team. Outwest they'd be racing the Oilers and the Flames for the bottom of the league.
I can't name a draft pick of his that's had an impact...? Datsyuk and Zetterberg...? Kronwall? Tatar, Nyquist, Franzen, Kronwall, etc? You can't be serious here.
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On December 24 2013 17:34 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 17:00 Sub40APM wrote:On December 24 2013 16:52 GolemMadness wrote:On December 24 2013 16:27 Sub40APM wrote:On December 24 2013 06:27 Slaughter wrote:
Is it weird that I am slightly more excited for the Alumni game then I am for the actual winter classic? no its not weird. the actual game are between two washed up franchises. at least the myth that holland is a genius and babcock is a tactical god can be finally put to rest. one assembled and overpaid for a mediocre team, the other cant even get them to turtle. The myth can be put to rest...? You realise he's widely acknowledged as one of the best GM's in NHL history? probably by the same people who think Burke is a great GM. Holland has wasted the last 4 years, has done nothing to address the Lidstrom-retiring-will-leave-this-team-without-a-real-d-issue and the lack of secondary scoring that appeared as soon as Cleary stopped scoring 20 goals a season. You cant even name a draft pick of his that has had an impact, and the few kids that could be good supporting players have been overcooked in the AHL. His only positive move in the last 4 years has been to get moved to the East where the Red Wings are just another mediocre bottom playoff team. Outwest they'd be racing the Oilers and the Flames for the bottom of the league. I can't name a draft pick of his that's had an impact...? Datsyuk and Zetterberg...? Kronwall? Tatar, Nyquist, Franzen, Kronwall, etc? You can't be serious here.
Cann't name a north american draft pick maybe? lol
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Canada1122 Posts
maybe he meant in the last 4 years?
sigh why can't they just play through xmas
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On December 24 2013 18:55 ii.blitzkrieg wrote:
maybe he meant in the last 4 years?
sigh why can't they just play through xmas
Tatar was 2009 and Nyquist was 2008, so pretty close. It's pretty unreasonable to expect a team that always has such a late pick to draft players who'll be immediately NHL ready. Even still, they drafted Jurco in the second round in 2011 and he has 3 points in 5 games so far.
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Canada8159 Posts
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Good. Fuck Mike Smith, that overrated tool.
Also, I agree that Ken Holland is kinda overrated. His legacy stems from the pre-cap era, where he inherited a team that was already stupidly good and he didn't have to do a whole lot to sell free agents to join a big spending perennial contender, and getting extremely lucky late in the draft with Datsyuk and Zetterberg.
Outside of that, he's not hit it big in the draft since 2004, when he got Kronwall. Tartar and Nyquist are the only NHL ready prospects worth mentioning as of now and the jury is still out on them. Maybe Jurco beyond that? Abdelkater isn't much more than a pest. Helm is good but maybe a solid 3rd liner tops.
Basically, as sub has said a few times, the team has been aging for years, and plugs in old FAs rather than preparing through the draft. And even then, you have FA duds like Weiss, which is looking like a really horrible deal right now. Dudes like Nyquist and Tartar should be getting top 6 minutes so they get more experience faster, but you have guys like Samuelsson and Alfie taking up those minutes. If the team was a realistic Cup contender, it would make sense, but does anyone actually think they are?
The way the league is set up now with the cap, you've got to win by having a solid core build through the draft, supplemented by good signings. The Wings really haven't been doing that the last 4-5 years. Shit started going downhill when Rafalski left, and then Lidstrom. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are starting to get up there in age too.
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He built practically the entire team that made it to the finals two years in a row. Considering that in his entire tenure as GM the earliest draft pick he's had was #19, he's done pretty well. Most other top teams like Chicago, Pittsburgh, Anaheim, LA, etc, just weren't very good for a while, then had some high draft picks to rebuild their team. The one exception is Boston, although even still that was before Peter Chiarelli was made GM. How many teams are consistently drafting studs late in the first round or later?
Nyquist is playing on the top line. Jurco is playing on the 2nd line. Alfredsson is third on the team in points, so why shouldn't he get ice time? Do you actually think that only real cup contenders want to make the playoffs? Samuelsson has played over 14 minutes once this season, and Cleary is mostly playing around 13 minutes, so I don't know why people keep acting like they're stealing away all the ice time from younger players. Weiss was clearly a pretty bad signing.
You guys act like being a GM is just being aware of what you need, and then you just magically make it happen. Look at another great GM and the state of his team: Lou Lamoriello and the New Jersey Devils. They were once great. Then players started to leave, get old, retire. So why didn't Lamoriello just make new players appear to replace them? Because that's not the way the world works. There's an extremely limited pool of talented available players, and there are a lot of other teams that want them as well.
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EPT
