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this is good for an LOL.
"kinda overrated" is such a weak term.
over rated according to whom?
well Scotty Bowman told me Ken Holland is like Neil Young.. he is God.
now no matter what Holland does he is "kinda over rated".
on a more serious note,
Holland remaining employed in 1 of hockey's best exec teams as long as he has is a major accomplishment in and of itself.
Bowman and Devellano had a big hand in replacing themselves with Holland.
These guys really, really, really, know what they are doing. These are great hockey men.
I'll go by what Scotty Bowman has said about Ken Holland on repeated occasions.
"Ken Holland is one of the best GMs in the NHL."
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On December 27 2013 00:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
this is good for an LOL.
"kinda overrated" is such a weak term.
over rated according to whom?
well Scotty Bowman told me Ken Holland is like Neil Young.. he is God.
now no matter what Holland does he is "kinda over rated".
on a more serious note,
Holland remaining employed in 1 of hockey's best exec teams as long as he has is a major accomplishment in and of itself.
Bowman and Devellano has a big hand in replacing themselves with Holland.
These guys really, really, really, know what they are doing. These are great hockey men.
I'll go by what Scotty Bowman has said about Ken Holland on repeated occasions.
"Ken Holland is one of the best GMs in the NHL."
Scotty Bowman is over rated.
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On December 27 2013 00:07 KelianQatar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2013 00:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
this is good for an LOL.
"kinda overrated" is such a weak term.
over rated according to whom?
well Scotty Bowman told me Ken Holland is like Neil Young.. he is God.
now no matter what Holland does he is "kinda over rated".
on a more serious note,
Holland remaining employed in 1 of hockey's best exec teams as long as he has is a major accomplishment in and of itself.
Bowman and Devellano has a big hand in replacing themselves with Holland.
These guys really, really, really, know what they are doing. These are great hockey men.
I'll go by what Scotty Bowman has said about Ken Holland on repeated occasions.
"Ken Holland is one of the best GMs in the NHL." Scotty Bowman is over rated.
Oh no you dih int
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lol @ the guy who keeps shitting on the wings.
I hope you are kidding.
One more thing. Do you know why Holland never replaced Lidstrom?
Because there is only 1 Lidstrom...
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On December 27 2013 00:07 KelianQatar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2013 00:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
this is good for an LOL.
"kinda overrated" is such a weak term.
over rated according to whom?
well Scotty Bowman told me Ken Holland is like Neil Young.. he is God.
now no matter what Holland does he is "kinda over rated".
on a more serious note,
Holland remaining employed in 1 of hockey's best exec teams as long as he has is a major accomplishment in and of itself.
Bowman and Devellano has a big hand in replacing themselves with Holland.
These guys really, really, really, know what they are doing. These are great hockey men.
I'll go by what Scotty Bowman has said about Ken Holland on repeated occasions.
"Ken Holland is one of the best GMs in the NHL." Scotty Bowman is over rated.
LoL wtf are you smoking i would like some. This motherfucker built a dynasty from 93-02
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I love
it
when JJR quotes
his own posts told
you right
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On December 26 2013 09:40 GolemMadness wrote:
He built practically the entire team that made it to the finals two years in a row. Considering that in his entire tenure as GM the earliest draft pick he's had was #19, he's done pretty well. Most other top teams like Chicago, Pittsburgh, Anaheim, LA, etc, just weren't very good for a while, then had some high draft picks to rebuild their team. The one exception is Boston, although even still that was before Peter Chiarelli was made GM. How many teams are consistently drafting studs late in the first round or later?
Nyquist is playing on the top line. Jurco is playing on the 2nd line. Alfredsson is third on the team in points, so why shouldn't he get ice time? Do you actually think that only real cup contenders want to make the playoffs? Samuelsson has played over 14 minutes once this season, and Cleary is mostly playing around 13 minutes, so I don't know why people keep acting like they're stealing away all the ice time from younger players. Weiss was clearly a pretty bad signing.
You guys act like being a GM is just being aware of what you need, and then you just magically make it happen. Look at another great GM and the state of his team: Lou Lamoriello and the New Jersey Devils. They were once great. Then players started to leave, get old, retire. So why didn't Lamoriello just make new players appear to replace them? Because that's not the way the world works. There's an extremely limited pool of talented available players, and there are a lot of other teams that want them as well.
I'm not talking about drafting studs necessarily. Just useful players that are better than fourth liners like Abdelkater. Chicago was helped by Kane and Toews obviously, but they didn't magically start winning only because those two are good, or they would have won a lot earlier. That roster is filled with non-first round picks who contribute regularly: Keith, Crawford, Saad, Shaw, Kruger, Hjalmarsson, Bickell... that first win also had drafted guys ike Bolland, Byfuglin, Brower, etc. Their core is supplemented by really good players who were drafted by the organization.
Those are all draft hits that happened after the first. Detroit hasn't had one in ages. That's what he is getting at. For a GM that is known for his drafting prowess, he's not done much in that department since 2004. And through FA/trades, Holland has mostly acquired older guys rather than younger players who could join the core and contribute for a long time. No one is saying magically make another Lidstrom appear. Just that he hasn't done shit in drafts in ages, and his other acquisitions have all been older players, which does not address the issue that the club's best players are all older and there is no immediate help in the pipeline
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It's funny, I had this feeling that after Calgary took the tripping penalty in the last 2minutes of the game they would shoot the puck 200 feet and get called for Icing by mistake and Edmonton would score off the face off
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On December 28 2013 02:25 QuanticHawk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2013 09:40 GolemMadness wrote:
He built practically the entire team that made it to the finals two years in a row. Considering that in his entire tenure as GM the earliest draft pick he's had was #19, he's done pretty well. Most other top teams like Chicago, Pittsburgh, Anaheim, LA, etc, just weren't very good for a while, then had some high draft picks to rebuild their team. The one exception is Boston, although even still that was before Peter Chiarelli was made GM. How many teams are consistently drafting studs late in the first round or later?
Nyquist is playing on the top line. Jurco is playing on the 2nd line. Alfredsson is third on the team in points, so why shouldn't he get ice time? Do you actually think that only real cup contenders want to make the playoffs? Samuelsson has played over 14 minutes once this season, and Cleary is mostly playing around 13 minutes, so I don't know why people keep acting like they're stealing away all the ice time from younger players. Weiss was clearly a pretty bad signing.
You guys act like being a GM is just being aware of what you need, and then you just magically make it happen. Look at another great GM and the state of his team: Lou Lamoriello and the New Jersey Devils. They were once great. Then players started to leave, get old, retire. So why didn't Lamoriello just make new players appear to replace them? Because that's not the way the world works. There's an extremely limited pool of talented available players, and there are a lot of other teams that want them as well. I'm not talking about drafting studs necessarily. Just useful players that are better than fourth liners like Abdelkater. Chicago was helped by Kane and Toews obviously, but they didn't magically start winning only because those two are good, or they would have won a lot earlier. That roster is filled with non-first round picks who contribute regularly: Keith, Crawford, Saad, Shaw, Kruger, Hjalmarsson, Bickell... that first win also had drafted guys ike Bolland, Byfuglin, Brower, etc. Their core is supplemented by really good players who were drafted by the organization. Those are all draft hits that happened after the first. Detroit hasn't had one in ages. That's what he is getting at. For a GM that is known for his drafting prowess, he's not done much in that department since 2004. And through FA/trades, Holland has mostly acquired older guys rather than younger players who could join the core and contribute for a long time. No one is saying magically make another Lidstrom appear. Just that he hasn't done shit in drafts in ages, and his other acquisitions have all been older players, which does not address the issue that the club's best players are all older and there is no immediate help in the pipeline
Sure, Chicago also had a lot of good picks later in the draft. However, almost every one of those players was drafted by a GM who's no longer in the NHL. Outside of Toews and Kane, the only players that Talon/Bowman drafted were Hjalmarsson, Kruger, Saad and Shaw. Given that Kruger actually is a 4th line player, that's only 3 players since 2005, despite also having a 7th and 11th overall pick.
It's not like Detroit has no young talent. Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, Mantha and DeKeyser have all been looking pretty good. The simple fact is that no team consistently has success in the draft unless they get early picks, especially in the past few years. What has Pittsburgh done in the draft since Jordan Staal? Who has Tampa Bay drafted in the past 10 years other than Stamkos and Hedman? San Jose? Vancouver? The list goes on and on.
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I'm not sure that there is a team that has more consistently found good talent without high first round picks than the Sharks.
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Since 2002, the only notable players have been Hertl, Demers, Pavelski and Vlasic. From 2002-2004, Detroit drafted Hudler, Filppula, Jimmy Howard and Franzen.
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Couture, Braun, Setoguchi, and Michalek, plus a bunch of other solid pros. You're missing a ton of people. Saying that the Wings' drafting is anywhere comparable to the Sharks' is ludicrous.
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On December 28 2013 15:07 xDaunt wrote:
Couture, Braun, Setoguchi, and Michalek, plus a bunch of other solid pros. You're missing a ton of people. Saying that the Wings' drafting is anywhere comparable to the Sharks' is ludicrous.
Michael was #6, Couture was #9 and Setoguchi was #8. Can't say that they've been the most successful team without high draft picks and then list people they took in the top 10. Detroit's highest pick in the last 20 years has been 19th.
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Sharks picks have been good. Flyers have made a number of quality picks outside the top 15:
03: Richards at 23, Carter at 10. But there were tons of good players.
05: Downie at 29
06: Giroux at 22
08: Sbisa at 19, Rinaldo in the 5th round
10: Tye McGinn in 4th rd
12: Laughton at 20. Stolarz and Gostisbehere are doing well, too.
They've been fairly unsuccessful with defensemen, but have done a great job selecting forwards. Holmgren usually goes for a "best available" draft strategy. This year, drafting Morin and Haag with the top picks was a real departure.
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I don't think you can really include players who haven't made an impact at the NHL level yet. I also wouldn't say that Rinaldo has been a quality pick so far, and Luca Sbisa didn't really do anything and then got traded the next season.
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Yea that's fair, just thought I'd mention them. Rinaldo, when not playing like an idiot, can be an effective fourth liner. He also has the consistent effort and energy of a player in his position. Not saying he's a goal-scorer, but I think he does contribute. Sbisa is an NHL player that the Flyers drafted. When he was drafted he was considered nowhere close to the NHL, and was much better regarded at the time of the Pronger trade. His value definitely added to that swap. If that's a horribly pedantic argument, apologies.
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Canada8159 Posts
Seidenberg is out with a torn ACL too
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On December 28 2013 15:45 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2013 15:07 xDaunt wrote:
Couture, Braun, Setoguchi, and Michalek, plus a bunch of other solid pros. You're missing a ton of people. Saying that the Wings' drafting is anywhere comparable to the Sharks' is ludicrous. Michael was #6, Couture was #9 and Setoguchi was #8. Can't say that they've been the most successful team without high draft picks and then list people they took in the top 10. Detroit's highest pick in the last 20 years has been 19th.
The Sharks moved up to get Couture and Seto. The point is that the Red Wings and Sharks have been perennial playoff teams for ten years, and despite having similar draft position, the Sharks have been much better in the draft and have done very well overall.
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On December 29 2013 09:59 Jer99 wrote:
Seidenberg is out with a torn ACL too
a knee is really no big deal. obviously i'd rather be perfectly healthy.
however,
a brain injury impacts your very humanity.
steve moore still can not read or concentrate for an extended period of time without getting a head ache.
USA is outplaying Team Canada by a substantial margin thus far in the WJHC.
There should be no "shocked" or "surprised" looks from any TSN commentators when USA dominates Canada in puck possession and offensive zone time in their head-to-head meeting.
Team Canada is doing a great job shuffling the deck chairs on teh Titanic though... they are switching up goalies.
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EPT
