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On June 30 2013 21:59 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 21:57 nkr wrote:On June 30 2013 21:56 m4inbrain wrote:On June 30 2013 21:55 nkr wrote:On June 30 2013 21:51 DannyJ wrote:
Screw worrying about the NSA, I'm going to be scared that some creepy lady in Canada is going to google what I live by... you dont need to be worried as long as you dont threaten to kill people which is, as im sure you are aware of, illegal Joking is not. And you're not to judge if a joke meets "joke-criteria". your intention does not matter, it's what people percieve as the truth as matters. If I go out on town yelling im gna kill school children, it doesn't fucking matter if I then say it was a joke. It's a big difference if you run around and shouting stuff like a nutjob, or write stuff on a forum with "jk lol" behind it. There's alot of jew-jokes out there. Guess you need to be charged with racism and hatespeech every single time you use one of these. Not to mention jokes about blacks, germans, polish guys and what not.
The difference is only there to you. If I write a comment on the internet where I say I'm going to kill children, it doesn't matter if I then add a lol jk after. Any parent is rightfully to be concerned, because you know the people who actually go through with this stuff usually go posting about it on the internet as well. No one takes them seriously though, because the internet is filled with ""trolling"".
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On June 30 2013 22:03 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Is dark comedy illegal now?
In your country. Other countries like the UK make it to an artform.
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On June 30 2013 21:57 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 21:56 m4inbrain wrote:On June 30 2013 21:55 nkr wrote:On June 30 2013 21:51 DannyJ wrote:
Screw worrying about the NSA, I'm going to be scared that some creepy lady in Canada is going to google what I live by... you dont need to be worried as long as you dont threaten to kill people which is, as im sure you are aware of, illegal Joking is not. And you're not to judge if a joke meets "joke-criteria". your intention does not matter, it's what people percieve as the truth as matters. If I go out on town yelling im gna kill school children, it doesn't fucking matter if I then say it was a joke.
He is 100% correct. All that needs to happen is that someone must realistically believe they are being threatened with harm. Its the toy gun argument. You can still threaten people with a toy gun if they think it is a real one. In this case, he made the comment on facebook and many people didn't have couldn't tell if the threat was serious.
I am reading up on it right now. If he has just been charged, he will likely get a slap on the wrist for being an idiot. His trial is tomorrow and the Judge isn't going to lock him up for 8 years. He is going to yell at him a lot and likely give him community service.
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On June 30 2013 22:03 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Is dark comedy illegal now?
It is if Texas has its way. These actions by the state are infringements on 1st Amendment rights. It's absolutely disgusting.
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On June 30 2013 22:02 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 21:59 Kamais Ookin wrote:
This case is proof that you can and should be punished for stupidity. If that's the case then the woman who reported him to the police should be arrested too. Agreed.
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On June 30 2013 22:04 NovaTheFeared wrote:It is if Texas has its way. These actions by the state are infringements on 1st Amendment rights. It's absolutely disgusting.
You don't have the right to threaten people with bodily harm under the 1st Amendment. Dark comedy requires context, which facebook does not provide.
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On June 30 2013 21:57 sabas123 wrote:
OMFG FOR REAL???
this shit it so messed up, just another sign that autorithy has no clue how the current society works lol.
While authorities do have some problems dealing with current society, this is as much of a sign that current society is becoming very clueless as to what is and should be acceptable behaviour.
Even if several years in prison would be a harsh punishment for a young person, the real issue is why it's even common to have such a jargon in the first place.
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On June 30 2013 22:04 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 21:57 nkr wrote:On June 30 2013 21:56 m4inbrain wrote:On June 30 2013 21:55 nkr wrote:On June 30 2013 21:51 DannyJ wrote:
Screw worrying about the NSA, I'm going to be scared that some creepy lady in Canada is going to google what I live by... you dont need to be worried as long as you dont threaten to kill people which is, as im sure you are aware of, illegal Joking is not. And you're not to judge if a joke meets "joke-criteria". your intention does not matter, it's what people percieve as the truth as matters. If I go out on town yelling im gna kill school children, it doesn't fucking matter if I then say it was a joke. He is 100% correct. All that needs to happen is that someone must realistically believe they are being threatened with harm. Its the toy gun argument. You can still threaten people with a toy gun if they think it is a real one. In this case, he made the comment on facebook and many people didn't have couldn't tell if the threat was serious. I am reading up on it right now. If he has just been charged, he will likely get a slap on the wrist for being an idiot. His trial is tomorrow and the Judge isn't going to lock him up for 8 years. He is going to yell at him a lot and likely give him community service.
That's wrong as a matter of law. The standard is not the most sensitive member of the community. If someone, like a Canadian women, feels threatened that's still not enough for guilt under law. The standard is if a reasonable person would believe it was a credible threat. With the JK addendum, it's clearly not reasonable to construe the act as an actual threat.
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On June 30 2013 22:04 m4inbrain wrote:In your country. Other countries like the UK make it to an artform.
You do know the UK is the worlds greatest offender when it comes to locking up people for saying dumb shit on facebook, right?
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On June 30 2013 22:06 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 22:04 NovaTheFeared wrote:On June 30 2013 22:03 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Is dark comedy illegal now? It is if Texas has its way. These actions by the state are infringements on 1st Amendment rights. It's absolutely disgusting. You don't have the right to threaten people with bodily harm under the 1st Amendment. Dark comedy requires context, which facebook does not provide.
So who are you to infer context when there is a "lol jk" after it. It works both ways. The strict interpretation is inferring a strict context, you are inferring that he is making a legitimate threat, with out that context.
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On June 30 2013 22:04 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 21:59 m4inbrain wrote:On June 30 2013 21:57 nkr wrote:On June 30 2013 21:56 m4inbrain wrote:On June 30 2013 21:55 nkr wrote:On June 30 2013 21:51 DannyJ wrote:
Screw worrying about the NSA, I'm going to be scared that some creepy lady in Canada is going to google what I live by... you dont need to be worried as long as you dont threaten to kill people which is, as im sure you are aware of, illegal Joking is not. And you're not to judge if a joke meets "joke-criteria". your intention does not matter, it's what people percieve as the truth as matters. If I go out on town yelling im gna kill school children, it doesn't fucking matter if I then say it was a joke. It's a big difference if you run around and shouting stuff like a nutjob, or write stuff on a forum with "jk lol" behind it. There's alot of jew-jokes out there. Guess you need to be charged with racism and hatespeech every single time you use one of these. Not to mention jokes about blacks, germans, polish guys and what not. The difference is only there to you. If I write a comment on the internet where I say I'm going to kill children, it doesn't matter if I then add a lol jk after. Any parent is rightfully to be concerned, because you know the people who actually go through with this stuff usually go posting about it on the internet as well. No one takes them seriously though, because the internet is filled with ""trolling"".
No, the difference there is "common sense". If i call the police every single time someone threats me, i better have a 24h skypecall active all the time. Which is exactly the same. There's no difference between that FB comment and someone telling me to "fuck me/rape me/kill me" because i destroyed him in whatever game.
I'm not saying that you should not investigate that FB guy, but 4 month in jail and 8 years sentence is borderline retarded. I don't know why people even try to justify it.
You do know the UK is the worlds greatest offender of locking up people for saying dumb shit on facebook, right?
I don't. Feel free to show me.
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On June 30 2013 21:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 21:47 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 30 2013 21:46 Plansix wrote:
A valuable lesson to all. Don't say stupid shit on the internet. Its a bit unreasonable, but that is not a joke you make. Its sort of like posting "I'm building a bomb" and then just putting "JK, its totally fine". If you live near me, I'm still going to call someone to confirm you are not, in fact, building a bomb. It's ok to have someone confirm their intentions, it's NOT ok at all to jail them for numerous months (facing 8 years) without any form of investigation or background-check. If I say that I am going to shoot someone and they believe me, I can be sent to jail, even if I did not intend to do so. Threats of doing something is still a crime. I do agree that 8 years is a lot, though. Still, I need to know more and if he pushed it to trial, rather than plea out.
I don't know about US, but at least in Denmark a person can not be punished for threats, unless the person is aware that his threats might actually cause fear.
I am genuinely curious if American law considers the intention of the act when judging. In Denmark a person must have had an evil intent in order to be punished, unless the law states otherwise. At this point it is my impression that US law has gotten rid of any thing remotely related to common sense, and it would easy my mind to be proven wrong in this matter.
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On June 30 2013 22:06 Moone wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 21:57 sabas123 wrote:
OMFG FOR REAL???
this shit it so messed up, just another sign that autorithy has no clue how the current society works lol. While authorities do have some problems dealing with current society, this is as much of a sign that current society is becoming very clueless as to what is and should be acceptable behaviour. Even if several years in prison would be a harsh punishment for a young person, the real issue is why it's even common to have such a jargon in the first place.
His trial is tomorrow. He isn't going to jail. They aren't going to waste the money on something that dumb. But he is likely to never do this again, which is a win all around.
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On June 30 2013 22:03 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 21:41 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 30 2013 21:26 Jek wrote:
@MasterOfPuppets: How do you KNOW there's nothing in it?
To be honest, I don't know how to phrase this without sounding arrogant so please bear with me, I don't think the people in uproar has any idea how it is to have a mental disorder - which this kid might very well have - I have a bipolar disorder which if I forget my meds and trigger a fully-blown manic period I have the potential to be a threat to myself and my surroundings, I'm glad to know I have a red mark in my journal which allows the officials to by force, if needed, put me into a hospital.
Basically I think this kind of actions should be followed up on immediately, and the investigation should be swift so we don't have innocent people sitting incarcerated for this long. Listen buddy, I don't know where you live, where you've lived, how you've lived or what you're doing on an online gaming forum while having such little experience with online gaming. But I can tell you from my long history of multiplayer gaming, and the cumulated knowledge of everything I've seen, heard and experienced, that this isn't out of the ordinary. Hell, with XBox live's CoD and Halo, with League of Legends and other such casual-competitive games, it's even more prevalent now than it used to be. I've seen people rage like hell, and I hold nothing against them, fuck I'm not ashamed to admit that I've raged like hell too, and not only once. But it's ok. It's ok to be upset when someone on your team fucks up, or when you fuck up, or when you lose. It's ok, because it's passing. It's called competitive spirit, and anyone who's ever been competitive in anything, sports, board games, gambling, you name it, any of those people will at least understand the sentiment. You for some reason, don't seem to. Therein lies the problem... I find it quite funny you think I have little experience with online gaming when we're posting on teamliquid.  This wasn't an in-game chat, this was on Facebook, which you seem to ignore for some reason.
Oh you're right.
It's on Facebook, therefore it must be personal and have nothing to do with very evident prior motives from inside the game... I guess everything our SC2 pros say on Twitter should be completely disregarded, because it's on Twitter, surely it can't have anything to do with the game right?
Listen. I don't know why you're being so painfully obtuse about this, but this is only an extension of someone caring too much about a game, which again harkens back to my point about being competitive. It doesn't matter how he said it, he could've gone to the window and just yelled "FUCK" until his neighbours' windows all cracked, or smashed his keyboard into his monitor, it's the exact same thing. In fact his course of action should be perceived by any rational human being as the least destructive option.
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I feel like he needs therapy, not jail. Certainly, a huge amount of people would be pretty upset to hear that a guy who lives near a school was saying things like this, even with "lol jk" added, and that nothing was done about it.
Can you even begin to imagine the media furore if someone actually did shoot up a school and they'd said stuff like this on FB?
"Shocking revelations today as it's revealed that the alleged perpetrator of the recent school shooting, which left several children as young as 9 dead or critically injured, had made sick comments on Facebook as soon as a week before the attack about killing kids and eating their hearts"
We can all imagine a news reader saying that.
More than likely he was just an upset guy who doesn't know how to handle his emotions properly and he needs help to deal with things better. But a guy threatening this on the street would be arrested, and I think Facebook and Twitter should be considered to be "in public" as well (although I'd imagine some people disagree and would say otherwise)
I don't see, having said that, how locking him up for 4 months let alone 8 years will produce a productive, helpful member of society out of this guy. He needs a psychiatrist, not a jail warden, and I feel that a police warning would have probably been enough to make him realise that certain things are pretty disturbing when said in public.
(NB: None of the above is a legal opinion, because I neither know nor care how the laws of the US will apply to this guy; I'm talking about ideas and what would be best in my opinion)
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On June 30 2013 22:07 DannyJ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 22:04 m4inbrain wrote:On June 30 2013 22:03 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Is dark comedy illegal now? In your country. Other countries like the UK make it to an artform. You do know the UK is the worlds greatest offender of locking up people for saying dumb shit on facebook, right?
UK is also the country that let Bill Hicks speak his mind when America banned him.
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On June 30 2013 22:07 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 21:50 Plansix wrote:On June 30 2013 21:47 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 30 2013 21:46 Plansix wrote:
A valuable lesson to all. Don't say stupid shit on the internet. Its a bit unreasonable, but that is not a joke you make. Its sort of like posting "I'm building a bomb" and then just putting "JK, its totally fine". If you live near me, I'm still going to call someone to confirm you are not, in fact, building a bomb. It's ok to have someone confirm their intentions, it's NOT ok at all to jail them for numerous months (facing 8 years) without any form of investigation or background-check. If I say that I am going to shoot someone and they believe me, I can be sent to jail, even if I did not intend to do so. Threats of doing something is still a crime. I do agree that 8 years is a lot, though. Still, I need to know more and if he pushed it to trial, rather than plea out. I don't know about US, but at least in Denmark a person can not be punished for threats, unless the person is aware that his threats might actually cause fear. I am genuinely curious if American law considers the intention of the act when judging. In Denmark a person must have had an evil intent in order to be punished, unless the law states otherwise. At this point it is my impression that US law has gotten rid of any thing remotely related to common sense, and it would easy my mind to be proven wrong in this matter.
It does and fear is important. But guess what, if you post shit like this on the internet, with limited context, it can cause a lot of fear.
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On June 30 2013 22:06 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 22:04 NovaTheFeared wrote:On June 30 2013 22:03 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Is dark comedy illegal now? It is if Texas has its way. These actions by the state are infringements on 1st Amendment rights. It's absolutely disgusting. You don't have the right to threaten people with bodily harm under the 1st Amendment. Dark comedy requires context, which facebook does not provide.
You dont get this. You cant compare the internet to the real world since everyone treats the internet differnt than the real world NO MATTER WHAT if it should be that way. Fact is on the internet people act differntly than in the real world.
If you go out on the real world and threaten people to kill or rape them you gotta be in trouble. In the internet it is a thing you hear everyday.
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this is so absurd.
if i would do that in germany ( and probably everywhere else) and get serious problems because of that it would be like some hours of social work you have to do and maybe apologize.
jail, especially 8 years in jail, is totally dumb.
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well.. if i write /say something like "i will find you and fucking kill you" in a game ,and someone finds out its me they can legally give me 6 months in prison and like a big sum of money to pay.. but ofc people dont do that,cuz they are civilized and know its the freaking internet..... im typing this with one hand since im still facepalming.
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EPT
