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There was another post where the following was written, I think it applies to this one aswell.
^ 'muricans.
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On June 30 2013 22:16 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 22:07 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 30 2013 22:03 Jek wrote:On June 30 2013 21:41 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 30 2013 21:26 Jek wrote:
@MasterOfPuppets: How do you KNOW there's nothing in it?
To be honest, I don't know how to phrase this without sounding arrogant so please bear with me, I don't think the people in uproar has any idea how it is to have a mental disorder - which this kid might very well have - I have a bipolar disorder which if I forget my meds and trigger a fully-blown manic period I have the potential to be a threat to myself and my surroundings, I'm glad to know I have a red mark in my journal which allows the officials to by force, if needed, put me into a hospital.
Basically I think this kind of actions should be followed up on immediately, and the investigation should be swift so we don't have innocent people sitting incarcerated for this long. Listen buddy, I don't know where you live, where you've lived, how you've lived or what you're doing on an online gaming forum while having such little experience with online gaming. But I can tell you from my long history of multiplayer gaming, and the cumulated knowledge of everything I've seen, heard and experienced, that this isn't out of the ordinary. Hell, with XBox live's CoD and Halo, with League of Legends and other such casual-competitive games, it's even more prevalent now than it used to be. I've seen people rage like hell, and I hold nothing against them, fuck I'm not ashamed to admit that I've raged like hell too, and not only once. But it's ok. It's ok to be upset when someone on your team fucks up, or when you fuck up, or when you lose. It's ok, because it's passing. It's called competitive spirit, and anyone who's ever been competitive in anything, sports, board games, gambling, you name it, any of those people will at least understand the sentiment. You for some reason, don't seem to. Therein lies the problem... I find it quite funny you think I have little experience with online gaming when we're posting on teamliquid.  This wasn't an in-game chat, this was on Facebook, which you seem to ignore for some reason. Oh you're right. It's on Facebook, therefore it must be personal and have nothing to do with very evident prior motives from inside the game... I guess everything our SC2 pros say on Twitter should be completely disregarded, because it's on Twitter, surely it can't have anything to do with the game right? Listen. I don't know why you're being so painfully obtuse about this, but this is only an extension of someone caring too much about a game, which again harkens back to my point about being competitive. It doesn't matter how he said it, he could've gone to the window and just yelled "FUCK" until his neighbours' windows all cracked, or smashed his keyboard into his monitor, it's the exact same thing. In fact his course of action should be perceived by any rational human being as the least destructive option. If you consider threatning with killing kids as the least destructive option I don't really know what to say. People commit crimes of violence for trivial things every single day in all societies: homicide, assaults and suicides can be prevented if people act on these cases. I'd much rather have a potential threat be in custody in the few days of investigation needed and seeing another tradegy.
Everyone with working limbs and a brain is a potential threat. I'm being straight with you. Anyone in the world has the capacity to do harm to another person, either by misunderstanding, by accident, by male-intention, or by misdirection. Do we jail everyone? There isn't a simple person in the world who hasn't gotten extremely angry about one thing or the other and wished something bad on someone or something else.
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On June 30 2013 22:15 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 22:14 Plansix wrote:On June 30 2013 22:11 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 30 2013 22:08 Plansix wrote:On June 30 2013 22:07 Prog455 wrote:On June 30 2013 21:50 Plansix wrote:On June 30 2013 21:47 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 30 2013 21:46 Plansix wrote:
A valuable lesson to all. Don't say stupid shit on the internet. Its a bit unreasonable, but that is not a joke you make. Its sort of like posting "I'm building a bomb" and then just putting "JK, its totally fine". If you live near me, I'm still going to call someone to confirm you are not, in fact, building a bomb. It's ok to have someone confirm their intentions, it's NOT ok at all to jail them for numerous months (facing 8 years) without any form of investigation or background-check. If I say that I am going to shoot someone and they believe me, I can be sent to jail, even if I did not intend to do so. Threats of doing something is still a crime. I do agree that 8 years is a lot, though. Still, I need to know more and if he pushed it to trial, rather than plea out. I don't know about US, but at least in Denmark a person can not be punished for threats, unless the person is aware that his threats might actually cause fear. I am genuinely curious if American law considers the intention of the act when judging. In Denmark a person must have had an evil intent in order to be punished, unless the law states otherwise. At this point it is my impression that US law has gotten rid of any thing remotely related to common sense, and it would easy my mind to be proven wrong in this matter. It does and fear is important. But guess what, if you post shit like this on the internet, with limited context, it can cause a lot of fear. You're completely right, I pissed myself and started crying when some twerp threatened to find me and kill me and my family because I owned him in some game... -_- Except it was on facebook and was reported by someone who didn't know the kid. Look, if you want to say this stuff, set your facebook to private. Look, I can't go out in public and say I am going to shoot up a school and eat the children's hearts. I will be fucking arrested, because people who don't know me will report me. This guy did it on facebook. So what's the moral here? That Facebook is given infinitely more power than a site should ever really have? Bottom line though it's kinda pathetic that you can be jailed without investigation for something you post on Facebook, OR ANY SITE FOR THAT MATTER, especially when it has an obvious disclaimer as to its intention. The internet is not real life. People need to deal with it.
Except for when it is, like a couple of school shooting where the kids almost mapped out their plans on the internet.
Seriously, if you wouldn't write it down on a piece of paper because someone might read it and get the wrong idea, don't write it on the internet.
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On June 30 2013 22:18 Goibon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 22:14 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 30 2013 22:12 Goibon wrote:On June 30 2013 22:10 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 30 2013 22:08 Sokrates wrote:On June 30 2013 22:06 Plansix wrote:On June 30 2013 22:04 NovaTheFeared wrote:On June 30 2013 22:03 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Is dark comedy illegal now? It is if Texas has its way. These actions by the state are infringements on 1st Amendment rights. It's absolutely disgusting. You don't have the right to threaten people with bodily harm under the 1st Amendment. Dark comedy requires context, which facebook does not provide. You dont get this. You cant compare the internet to the real world since everyone treats the internet differnt than the real world NO MATTER WHAT if it should be that way. Fact is on the internet people act differntly than in the real world. If you go out on the real world and threaten people to kill or rape them you gotta be in trouble. In the internet it is a thing you hear everyday. Some people really don't seem to get this for some reason... I get it, i just don't agree with it, and that's probably why this story brings such joy to my heart. And what brings joy to my heart is that worldwide internet censorship is improbable to ever happen, no matter how much people like you would crave it. I think it might. Lawmakers will catch up to the internet eventually. They're still so far behind because they're all old and stupid and don't get it. Once the people in charge are my age things will be different and internet behaviour will have the same or at least similar repurcussions as it does in the real world.
You need to look out the window and realize that in many countries nobody gives a shit. Quite frankly I find that by far the best solution, since you won't have the possibility to fuck with innocent people's lives for no reason, while at the same time not giving dumb trolls and raging kids more attention than they should ever deserve.
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On June 30 2013 22:17 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +Look, I can't go out in public and say I am going to shoot up a school and eat the children's hearts. I will be fucking arrested, because people who don't know me will report me. This guy did it on facebook. If you actually believe that, i don't know what to say. But i actually do think you're smart enough to now that jackshit will happen. The police will pick you up and make a background check, that's it. Show nested quote +I'd much rather have a potential threat be in custody in the few days of investigation needed and seeing another tradegy. 4 months. Not "few days".
He has been in jail for 4 months because no one posted bail, which is sad it in its own right.
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On June 30 2013 22:18 Goibon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 22:14 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 30 2013 22:12 Goibon wrote:On June 30 2013 22:10 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 30 2013 22:08 Sokrates wrote:On June 30 2013 22:06 Plansix wrote:On June 30 2013 22:04 NovaTheFeared wrote:On June 30 2013 22:03 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Is dark comedy illegal now? It is if Texas has its way. These actions by the state are infringements on 1st Amendment rights. It's absolutely disgusting. You don't have the right to threaten people with bodily harm under the 1st Amendment. Dark comedy requires context, which facebook does not provide. You dont get this. You cant compare the internet to the real world since everyone treats the internet differnt than the real world NO MATTER WHAT if it should be that way. Fact is on the internet people act differntly than in the real world. If you go out on the real world and threaten people to kill or rape them you gotta be in trouble. In the internet it is a thing you hear everyday. Some people really don't seem to get this for some reason... I get it, i just don't agree with it, and that's probably why this story brings such joy to my heart. And what brings joy to my heart is that worldwide internet censorship is improbable to ever happen, no matter how much people like you would crave it. I think it might. Lawmakers will catch up to the internet eventually. They're still so far behind because they're all old and stupid and don't get it. Once the people in charge are my age things will be different and internet behaviour will have the same or at least similar repurcussions as it does in the real world.
So by that you mean the people in power get to say and do what ever they want and the people with out power are marginalized? Groups like the KKK, gangs, hate-spilling radicals, they are all well and good and operating under 1st amendment rights with in the United States.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On June 30 2013 22:17 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +Look, I can't go out in public and say I am going to shoot up a school and eat the children's hearts. I will be fucking arrested, because people who don't know me will report me. This guy did it on facebook. If you actually believe that, i don't know what to say. But i actually do think you're smart enough to now that jackshit will happen. The police will pick you up and make a background check, that's it. Show nested quote +I'd much rather have a potential threat be in custody in the few days of investigation needed and seeing another tradegy. 4 months. Not "few days".
4 months plus charged with a crime after it's clear that the threat wasn't credible. I already agreed that an investigation is reasonable on the extremely unlikely chance he was serious. Going beyond that into felony criminal charges was wrong.
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On June 30 2013 22:16 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 22:07 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 30 2013 22:03 Jek wrote:On June 30 2013 21:41 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 30 2013 21:26 Jek wrote:
@MasterOfPuppets: How do you KNOW there's nothing in it?
To be honest, I don't know how to phrase this without sounding arrogant so please bear with me, I don't think the people in uproar has any idea how it is to have a mental disorder - which this kid might very well have - I have a bipolar disorder which if I forget my meds and trigger a fully-blown manic period I have the potential to be a threat to myself and my surroundings, I'm glad to know I have a red mark in my journal which allows the officials to by force, if needed, put me into a hospital.
Basically I think this kind of actions should be followed up on immediately, and the investigation should be swift so we don't have innocent people sitting incarcerated for this long. Listen buddy, I don't know where you live, where you've lived, how you've lived or what you're doing on an online gaming forum while having such little experience with online gaming. But I can tell you from my long history of multiplayer gaming, and the cumulated knowledge of everything I've seen, heard and experienced, that this isn't out of the ordinary. Hell, with XBox live's CoD and Halo, with League of Legends and other such casual-competitive games, it's even more prevalent now than it used to be. I've seen people rage like hell, and I hold nothing against them, fuck I'm not ashamed to admit that I've raged like hell too, and not only once. But it's ok. It's ok to be upset when someone on your team fucks up, or when you fuck up, or when you lose. It's ok, because it's passing. It's called competitive spirit, and anyone who's ever been competitive in anything, sports, board games, gambling, you name it, any of those people will at least understand the sentiment. You for some reason, don't seem to. Therein lies the problem... I find it quite funny you think I have little experience with online gaming when we're posting on teamliquid. This wasn't an in-game chat, this was on Facebook, which you seem to ignore for some reason. Oh you're right. It's on Facebook, therefore it must be personal and have nothing to do with very evident prior motives from inside the game... I guess everything our SC2 pros say on Twitter should be completely disregarded, because it's on Twitter, surely it can't have anything to do with the game right? Listen. I don't know why you're being so painfully obtuse about this, but this is only an extension of someone caring too much about a game, which again harkens back to my point about being competitive. It doesn't matter how he said it, he could've gone to the window and just yelled "FUCK" until his neighbours' windows all cracked, or smashed his keyboard into his monitor, it's the exact same thing. In fact his course of action should be perceived by any rational human being as the least destructive option. If you consider threatning with killing kids as the least destructive option I don't really know what to say. People commit crimes of violence for trivial things every single day in all societies: homicide, assaults and suicides can be prevented if people act on these cases. I'd much rather have a potential threat be in custody in the few days of investigation needed and seeing another tradegy.
America already has a ludicrous number of people in jail. And what you are saying approaches thought police very quickly.
Imagine where federal agencies monitor everything you say (like they do) and every time a flag pops up about anything warranted 4 months in prison. Imagine all of the people that have made the joke about "oh I know the gov is listening so something about a bomb somewhere"... they would all be in prison.
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On June 30 2013 22:19 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 22:15 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 30 2013 22:14 Plansix wrote:On June 30 2013 22:11 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 30 2013 22:08 Plansix wrote:On June 30 2013 22:07 Prog455 wrote:On June 30 2013 21:50 Plansix wrote:On June 30 2013 21:47 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 30 2013 21:46 Plansix wrote:
A valuable lesson to all. Don't say stupid shit on the internet. Its a bit unreasonable, but that is not a joke you make. Its sort of like posting "I'm building a bomb" and then just putting "JK, its totally fine". If you live near me, I'm still going to call someone to confirm you are not, in fact, building a bomb. It's ok to have someone confirm their intentions, it's NOT ok at all to jail them for numerous months (facing 8 years) without any form of investigation or background-check. If I say that I am going to shoot someone and they believe me, I can be sent to jail, even if I did not intend to do so. Threats of doing something is still a crime. I do agree that 8 years is a lot, though. Still, I need to know more and if he pushed it to trial, rather than plea out. I don't know about US, but at least in Denmark a person can not be punished for threats, unless the person is aware that his threats might actually cause fear. I am genuinely curious if American law considers the intention of the act when judging. In Denmark a person must have had an evil intent in order to be punished, unless the law states otherwise. At this point it is my impression that US law has gotten rid of any thing remotely related to common sense, and it would easy my mind to be proven wrong in this matter. It does and fear is important. But guess what, if you post shit like this on the internet, with limited context, it can cause a lot of fear. You're completely right, I pissed myself and started crying when some twerp threatened to find me and kill me and my family because I owned him in some game... -_- Except it was on facebook and was reported by someone who didn't know the kid. Look, if you want to say this stuff, set your facebook to private. Look, I can't go out in public and say I am going to shoot up a school and eat the children's hearts. I will be fucking arrested, because people who don't know me will report me. This guy did it on facebook. So what's the moral here? That Facebook is given infinitely more power than a site should ever really have? Bottom line though it's kinda pathetic that you can be jailed without investigation for something you post on Facebook, OR ANY SITE FOR THAT MATTER, especially when it has an obvious disclaimer as to its intention. The internet is not real life. People need to deal with it. Except for when it is, like a couple of school shooting where the kids almost mapped out their plans on the internet. Seriously, if you wouldn't write it down on a piece of paper because someone might read it and get the wrong idea, don't write it on the internet.
Mapping a plan, having recipes for IDEs, basically anything that explicitly detailed is completely different from "imma fuck u up lol jk" or any variation thereof.
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Oh guys... how I feel like telling you all I'm going to shoot every single kid at the local primary school right now.
However, doing so might impede my plans for tomorrow, so I'll restrain myself.
(Shall I finish this off with a "JK"?)
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The amount of people supporting this guy spending the last 4 months in prison, guilty or not, is disheartening. You people are terrifying and it's sad to see people embracing the fact that they live in a police state.
On June 30 2013 22:07 SgtCoDFish wrote:
I feel like he needs therapy, not jail. Certainly, a huge amount of people would be pretty upset to hear that a guy who lives near a school was saying things like this, even with "lol jk" added, and that nothing was done about it.
Can you even begin to imagine the media furore if someone actually did shoot up a school and they'd said stuff like this on FB?
"Shocking revelations today as it's revealed that the alleged perpetrator of the recent school shooting, which left several children as young as 9 dead or critically injured, had made sick comments on Facebook as soon as a week before the attack about killing kids and eating their hearts"
We can all imagine a news reader saying that.
More than likely he was just an upset guy who doesn't know how to handle his emotions properly and he needs help to deal with things better. But a guy threatening this on the street would be arrested, and I think Facebook and Twitter should be considered to be "in public" as well (although I'd imagine some people disagree and would say otherwise)
I don't see, having said that, how locking him up for 4 months let alone 8 years will produce a productive, helpful member of society out of this guy. He needs a psychiatrist, not a jail warden, and I feel that a police warning would have probably been enough to make him realise that certain things are pretty disturbing when said in public.
(NB: None of the above is a legal opinion, because I neither know nor care how the laws of the US will apply to this guy; I'm talking about ideas and what would be best in my opinion)
You're completely wrong about this person not knowing how to handle his emotions. He made a stupid sarcastic that was meant to be read by a friend as a joke. THAT'S IT.
This is something that happens millions of times on a daily basis. Not that exact phrase obviously, but something sarcastically exaggerating a response to someone as a joke. And he spent at least 4 months behind bars because of it.
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America never ceases to amaze me, I've said crazy shit playing video games thousands of times, by American standards i'm probably a bigger threat than Charles Manson.
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On June 30 2013 22:17 DannyJ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 22:07 m4inbrain wrote:You do know the UK is the worlds greatest offender of locking up people for saying dumb shit on facebook, right?
I don't. Feel free to show me. Not to go really off topic with it, but there have been numerous cases of the UK arresting and/or improsoning people for people saying stupid shit on facebook and twitter. At least this one in Texas is just morons thinking someone made a threat, not someone being "mean" online and being locked up for it. Just a few links i found. + Show Spoiler +
Okay. You're right. UK is as retarded in this regard, i'm fine with that.
Btw, the only "mean" guy in your links made numerous postings, not just one with "jk" behind it. Just as a sidenote, doesn't really matter though.
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On June 30 2013 22:21 Passion wrote:
Oh guys... how I feel like telling you all I'm going to shoot every single kid at the local primary school right now.
However, doing so might impede my plans for tomorrow, so I'll restrain myself.
(Shall I finish this off with a "JK"?)
Just for that I'm gonna atom bomb the netherlands! JK.
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Some people don't seem to understand how legislation works when it comes to making threats. Basically, if it's meant to instill fear and does so, then it's illegal. Of course it might vary from country to country but that's the general principle. That means that the context in which the "threat" was made is essential. In this case, it was obviously a sarcastic comment and an extreme exaggeration ("eating their hearts", seriously?), and that alone would mean the statement was in no way illegal. The fact that he wrote "jk" and "lol" makes it brutally obvious it wasn't serious.
Just as saying "I'm gonna kill you" can be considered totally ok under certain circumstances (two friends bantering for instance), saying "be careful or something might happen to you" can be considered a threat under other circumstances (organized crime extortion for instance). Under extreme circumstances you can even be making a threat without voicing a single word, if say a criminal stares "aggressively" on a prosecutor in a court room. You can't blindly look at only the words said when judging wether a statement is illegal or not.
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On June 30 2013 22:21 Kurr wrote:The amount of people supporting this guy spending the last 4 months in prison, guilty or not, is disheartening. You people are terrifying and it's sad to see people embracing the fact that they live in a police state. Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 22:07 SgtCoDFish wrote:
I feel like he needs therapy, not jail. Certainly, a huge amount of people would be pretty upset to hear that a guy who lives near a school was saying things like this, even with "lol jk" added, and that nothing was done about it.
Can you even begin to imagine the media furore if someone actually did shoot up a school and they'd said stuff like this on FB?
"Shocking revelations today as it's revealed that the alleged perpetrator of the recent school shooting, which left several children as young as 9 dead or critically injured, had made sick comments on Facebook as soon as a week before the attack about killing kids and eating their hearts"
We can all imagine a news reader saying that.
More than likely he was just an upset guy who doesn't know how to handle his emotions properly and he needs help to deal with things better. But a guy threatening this on the street would be arrested, and I think Facebook and Twitter should be considered to be "in public" as well (although I'd imagine some people disagree and would say otherwise)
I don't see, having said that, how locking him up for 4 months let alone 8 years will produce a productive, helpful member of society out of this guy. He needs a psychiatrist, not a jail warden, and I feel that a police warning would have probably been enough to make him realise that certain things are pretty disturbing when said in public.
(NB: None of the above is a legal opinion, because I neither know nor care how the laws of the US will apply to this guy; I'm talking about ideas and what would be best in my opinion) You're completely wrong about this person not knowing how to handle his emotions. He made a stupid sarcastic that was meant to be read by a friend as a joke. THAT'S IT. This is something that happens millions of times on a daily basis. Not that exact phrase obviously, but something sarcastically exaggerating a response to someone as a joke. And he spent at least 4 months behind bars because of it.
Set your facebook to private if you are doing to do that. Also, if he had written this down in a notebook and gotten arrested, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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@MasterOfPuppets: How would you know?
@m4inbrain: Yes, it's 4 months which is what I consider preposterous as an investigation and evaluation can do over the span of a few days.
@Caihead: You cannot compare having the ability to do something to actually making a public statement about doing it.
I pretty much agree with everything Plansix have been writing.
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On June 30 2013 22:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 22:17 m4inbrain wrote:Look, I can't go out in public and say I am going to shoot up a school and eat the children's hearts. I will be fucking arrested, because people who don't know me will report me. This guy did it on facebook. If you actually believe that, i don't know what to say. But i actually do think you're smart enough to now that jackshit will happen. The police will pick you up and make a background check, that's it. I'd much rather have a potential threat be in custody in the few days of investigation needed and seeing another tradegy. 4 months. Not "few days". He has been in jail for 4 months because no one posted bail, which is sad it in its own right.
Does that mean noone paid bail or noone tried to? I'm not familiar with that bailstuff.
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On June 30 2013 22:22 NovaTheFeared wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 22:21 Passion wrote:
Oh guys... how I feel like telling you all I'm going to shoot every single kid at the local primary school right now.
However, doing so might impede my plans for tomorrow, so I'll restrain myself.
(Shall I finish this off with a "JK"?) Just for that I'm gonna atom bomb the netherlands! JK.
You just scared me shitless - somebody arrest this guy!
On June 30 2013 22:19 Plansix wrote:
Seriously, if you wouldn't write it down on a piece of paper because someone might read it and get the wrong idea, don't write it on the internet.
There's nothing I wouldn't put on a piece of paper (without talking contracts). I couldn't care less about people getting the wrong idea.
Luckily I live in a nation where you're not a criminal until you commit a crime (writing on either paper or internet aren't considered such).
Now let's pray I don't get arrested for above remark.
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Well, they made a good example of this guy. There are some things you are not supposed to say even as a joke on the internet. General BM itself might be fine, but making a threat is not.
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EPT
