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On April 09 2013 05:12 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 05:09 Shinta) wrote:On April 09 2013 05:05 ComaDose wrote:On April 09 2013 04:55 Shinta) wrote:On April 09 2013 04:44 ComaDose wrote:On April 09 2013 04:41 Shinta) wrote:On April 09 2013 04:33 Shodaa wrote:On April 09 2013 04:23 Shinta) wrote:On April 09 2013 04:20 r.Evo wrote:On April 09 2013 04:19 75 wrote:
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and why are only 2% of the top3000 female?
Because, I'm speculating since I can't find numbers on this, the overall chess playing population only has ~2% women. The only legitimate question you can ask in a thread like this is: "Why do so few women start playing SC2/chess?" You need to understand that the two questions go hand in hand. You can't be so biased in your counter arguments. On April 09 2013 04:23 r.Evo wrote:On April 09 2013 04:19 Shinta) wrote:
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Sexist at best.... Don't you know that human bodiest are sexist? Some are male and some are female, how sexist!!!!
Sorry, but facts are facts. The fact that you feel facts to be offensive is another helpless fact. Can you please provide a scientific source for the statement: "Women are worse at games than men because thanks to evolution their brains are worse at it"? Try opening a history book and stop trolling the internet. History is irrelevant. It's just show what gender role and expectation were.There's no proof there that women are biologically inferior than man in games. And I might add that this is kind of a sexist comment to make. lol, to you and everyone else who thinks history is irrelevant. I hope you're able to catch on pretty soon on how wrong you are. History is one of the most clear pieces of evidence in the world. "Scientific findings" are proven wrong by "scientific findings" every day of the year, while history remains stone. There is so much to be learned through history. Please open your eyes. Everyone needs to realize though, there is give and take in everything. Every piece of scientific evidence, every page in a history book, every first hand experience a person has, has some aspects that can be applied generally and others that can't. Don't be so close minded to think that 1 article or 1 scientist has the complete answer to an issue at hand. Expand your minds~! sexist person who thinks history is one of the most clear pieces of evidence in the world tells me to open my mind. theres something i can check off my forum scavenger hunt. Hard to call me sexist when I'm one of the biggest supporters of females in eSports and sports in general. Luway was my favorite player when she was most active, and I will always support Eve and Luway so long as they play this game. Also long time fan of ColaGirl and MiSs. I've always explained that women can and will become better at games, as they have with most other things. It's just a matter of time, but there are reasons they aren't yet, at this point in time. So I repeat, stop being so close minded. its not hard to call you sexist Women's bodies and brains both work differently than those of men. Over time, women can, and are developing the ability and motivation to compete with men in games, but as history has dictated, games are something for men to do, not women. you're sexist Good troll, here's a eTreat. nom nom yes, good troll. I dont think you understand. Thinking women are a certain way becuase they are women is sexist... thats what you did... you are sexist.
Listen to what our fathers said: Never argue with a drunk or a fool.
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On April 09 2013 05:13 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 05:08 sAxiS wrote:
Well now that this thread has turned into opinionated rage (Including one unnamed individual attacking and getting really offended over the discussion), I'll bring up a point that a female coworker here just made, she plays video games, but has no desire to play games that are difficult or not easily mastered because it's not her focus in life, she plays them socially or for fun. She also says women just don't find pleasure in getting good at things like that the way men do. She doesn't naturally find competition enjoyable. That's from a woman, not me. My brother told me the exact same thing. What's your point?
A group of men are arguing with each other and getting pretty rage-induced over a topic involving females, and that was a statement made by a game playing female. A bit more relevant to the topic than your question. That's my point.
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On April 09 2013 03:59 StarStruck wrote:Not going to lie. She wasn't very good yet she didn't have any competition between the women they put her up against. This is what happens when you have a very small player pool.
She was pretty good... depending on when she was anywhere from a very good B teamer to a practice partner.
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I'm amazed at the amount of people who have been brainwashed to believe that every single difference between the sexes is 100% a fake construct of society.
Yeah, little things like evolution, genetics, biology, brain chemistry all disagree.
Feel free to keep believing men and women are 100% identical except for the sex organs.
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United States22883 Posts
On April 09 2013 05:08 sAxiS wrote:
Well now that this thread has turned into opinionated rage (Including one unnamed individual attacking and getting really offended over the discussion), I'll bring up a point that a female coworker here just made, she plays video games, but has no desire to play games that are difficult or not easily mastered because it's not her focus in life, she plays them socially or for fun. She also says women just don't find pleasure in getting good at things like that the way men do. She doesn't naturally find competition enjoyable. That's from a woman, not me.
The issue is whether 1) her lack of pleasure in competition represents most women and 2) if it is actually 'natural' or subtle learned behavior through socialization.
I think people often mistakenly claim things due to biology, and others mistakenly assume it's entirely biological or socialization and that the two don't interact or ever override each other.
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In the past, when gaming became popular, it was mostly viewed as fun for kids and "lazy dropouts". This stigma is still true in some parts of the world. A lot of women I met in my life wouldn't touch a game, simply because they care about what others think about them. They don't want to be unpopular, so they'll not do something, which will set them aside.
But, there are more and more gamers, which happen to be females now, who don't give a crap about that and simply do what they enjoy. Which is a good trend, might I add, but look at the gap between guys and women => guys simply have a headstart. So women have to "catch up" to gain all the gaming experiences, let alone StarCraft experiences. Just as an example => how many women were in Masters league when the league came out? Probably could count them on figers of my one hand. Now, I know that there are quite few & there are women who try to go even higher than that. All it requires is, simply the time. Yes, women will be probably still a minority in SC2, but that minority will go higher and higher, in terms of experiences and skills, as long as they decide to stick with it.
It's not as much as issue of some "gender", as the later start and lack of experience in gaming in general, as well as mindset; not everyone wants to play the game for hours a day, to dedicate everything to it => but because there are fewer women playing the game, of course, there will be much less of them at the very top level one day. But, I believe they will get there. 
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women are smarter than men. thus, women go into real careers to make real money, and men continue to play video games. =)
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On April 09 2013 05:14 sAxiS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 05:13 MstrJinbo wrote:On April 09 2013 05:08 sAxiS wrote:
Well now that this thread has turned into opinionated rage (Including one unnamed individual attacking and getting really offended over the discussion), I'll bring up a point that a female coworker here just made, she plays video games, but has no desire to play games that are difficult or not easily mastered because it's not her focus in life, she plays them socially or for fun. She also says women just don't find pleasure in getting good at things like that the way men do. She doesn't naturally find competition enjoyable. That's from a woman, not me. My brother told me the exact same thing. What's your point? A group of men are arguing with each other and getting pretty rage-induced over a topic involving females, and that was a statement made by a game playing female. A bit more relevant to the topic than your question. That's my point.
I'm not buying that the explanation applies exclusively to females. I don't buy that it even applies to a larger percentage of the female population as than the male population. For all we know, an equal percentage of women enjoy competitive games than men. Perceptions of women's gaming habits are not really well understood and the change a lot.
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On April 09 2013 05:18 Zaqwert wrote:
I'm amazed at the amount of people who have been brainwashed to believe that every single difference between the sexes is 100% a fake construct of society.
Yeah, little things like evolution, genetics, biology, brain chemistry all disagree.
Feel free to keep believing men and women are 100% identical except for the sex organs.
how do they disagree?
edit: lol brain chemistry
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On April 09 2013 05:19 dAPhREAk wrote:
women are smarter than men. thus, women go into real careers to make real money, and men continue to play video games. =)
And dAPhREAk has won the thread. All other posts are now invalid.
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On April 09 2013 05:20 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 05:14 sAxiS wrote:On April 09 2013 05:13 MstrJinbo wrote:On April 09 2013 05:08 sAxiS wrote:
Well now that this thread has turned into opinionated rage (Including one unnamed individual attacking and getting really offended over the discussion), I'll bring up a point that a female coworker here just made, she plays video games, but has no desire to play games that are difficult or not easily mastered because it's not her focus in life, she plays them socially or for fun. She also says women just don't find pleasure in getting good at things like that the way men do. She doesn't naturally find competition enjoyable. That's from a woman, not me. My brother told me the exact same thing. What's your point? A group of men are arguing with each other and getting pretty rage-induced over a topic involving females, and that was a statement made by a game playing female. A bit more relevant to the topic than your question. That's my point. I'm not buying that the explanation applies exclusively to females. I don't buy that it even applies to a larger percentage of the female population as than the male population. For all we know, an equal percentage of women enjoy competitive games than men. Perceptions of women's gaming habits are not really well understood and the change a lot.
It absolutely doesn't apply to 100%, as nothing ever does, but it was a fairly innocent and relevant post, why the argument?
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On April 09 2013 05:20 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 05:18 Zaqwert wrote:
I'm amazed at the amount of people who have been brainwashed to believe that every single difference between the sexes is 100% a fake construct of society.
Yeah, little things like evolution, genetics, biology, brain chemistry all disagree.
Feel free to keep believing men and women are 100% identical except for the sex organs. how do they disagree?
Men and women's brains function very differently on certain tasks. Evolution decided that humans would be better off if men and women were different in some ways, adapted naturally to certain tasks, it's one of hte major reasons there are two genders in the first place.
There are asexual creatures, we could all be unisex worms but we aren't.
The core reason for brain differences seems to occur in utero. There is a stage of development when male fetuses receive an extra blast of testosterone that female fetuses do not, this is believed to have subtle, but real, changes on the brain.
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On April 09 2013 05:18 Zaqwert wrote:
I'm amazed at the amount of people who have been brainwashed to believe that every single difference between the sexes is 100% a fake construct of society.
Yeah, little things like evolution, genetics, biology, brain chemistry all disagree.
Feel free to keep believing men and women are 100% identical except for the sex organs.
Of course they are difference. Hormone, bone structure, etc. But how are those relevant in the ability of someone to play a computer game ? In case of physical sport, this is obvious, not so much in gaming.
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On April 09 2013 03:07 r.Evo wrote:Simple answer: Statistics. There are much more male than female players both in chess and SC. Show nested quote +Bilalic looked at a set of data encompassing all known German players – over 120,000 individuals, of whom 113,000 are men. He directly compared the top 100 players of either gender and used a mathematical model to work out the expected difference in their Elo ratings, given the size of the groups they belong to.
The model revealed that the greater proportion of male chess players accounts for a whopping 96% of the difference in ability between the two genders at the highest level of play. If more women took up chess, you’d see that difference close substantially. http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2008/12/23/why-are-there-so-few-female-chess-grandmasters/Edit: Jesus. Guys. Women are "less dedicated than men" or "want to spend less time getting good"? I expected more from you. =/
Really interesting article! Thanks for posting it!
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Why sex matters for neuroscience
"A rapidly burgeoning literature documents copious sex influences on brain anatomy, chemistry and function. This article highlights some of the more intriguing recent discoveries and their implications. Consideration of the effects of sex can help to explain seemingly contradictory findings. Research into sex influences is mandatory to fully understand a host of brain disorders with sex differences in their incidence and/or nature. The striking quantity and diversity of sex-related influences on brain function indicate that the still widespread assumption that sex influences are negligible cannot be justified, and probably retards progress in our field."
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On April 09 2013 05:18 Zaqwert wrote:
I'm amazed at the amount of people who have been brainwashed to believe that every single difference between the sexes is 100% a fake construct of society.
Yeah, little things like evolution, genetics, biology, brain chemistry all disagree.
Feel free to keep believing men and women are 100% identical except for the sex organs.
Funny, because most of the scientific material on the topic of your "little things" is "well, we really don't know exactly what's going on, here's what we found out." (Including the material you just posted)
I don't think anybody here really believes men and women are 100% identical except for sex organs. We don't really know precisely what is due to constructs of society and what is due to biology/chemistry/genetics. Perhaps there has been a tendency to pinning things on social constructs (possibly can be partly blamed on too-hard of a reversal on the classical views about the sexes?) I doubt you think it's 0% construct of society either. Too much unknown.
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On April 09 2013 05:24 Zaqwert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 05:20 ComaDose wrote:On April 09 2013 05:18 Zaqwert wrote:
I'm amazed at the amount of people who have been brainwashed to believe that every single difference between the sexes is 100% a fake construct of society.
Yeah, little things like evolution, genetics, biology, brain chemistry all disagree.
Feel free to keep believing men and women are 100% identical except for the sex organs. how do they disagree? Men and women's brains function very differently on certain tasks. Evolution decided that humans would be better off if men and women were different in some ways, adapted naturally to certain tasks, it's one of hte major reasons there are two genders in the first place. There are asexual creatures, we could all be unisex worms but we aren't. The core reason for brain differences seems to occur in utero. There is a stage of development when male fetuses receive an extra blast of testosterone that female fetuses do not, this is believed to have subtle, but real, changes on the brain.
And there is no little evidence to support that women would be worst than men at any given task or skill. Some physical activities are limited by body growth, such as physical size, but that has little to with the topic at hand. There is not evidence to support that women are worst at SC2 than men, just like there is no evidence to support they would be any worse than piano.
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On April 09 2013 05:25 Shodaa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 05:18 Zaqwert wrote:
I'm amazed at the amount of people who have been brainwashed to believe that every single difference between the sexes is 100% a fake construct of society.
Yeah, little things like evolution, genetics, biology, brain chemistry all disagree.
Feel free to keep believing men and women are 100% identical except for the sex organs. Of course they are difference. Hormone, bone structure, etc. But how are those relevant in the ability of someone to play a computer game ? In case of physical sport, this is obvious, not so much in gaming.
Gaming requires reflexes, decision making, visual spacial processing, all very important aspects of "real world" activities.
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On April 09 2013 05:24 Zaqwert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 05:20 ComaDose wrote:On April 09 2013 05:18 Zaqwert wrote:
I'm amazed at the amount of people who have been brainwashed to believe that every single difference between the sexes is 100% a fake construct of society.
Yeah, little things like evolution, genetics, biology, brain chemistry all disagree.
Feel free to keep believing men and women are 100% identical except for the sex organs. how do they disagree? Men and women's brains function very differently on certain tasks. Evolution decided that humans would be better off if men and women were different in some ways, adapted naturally to certain tasks, it's one of hte major reasons there are two genders in the first place. There are asexual creatures, we could all be unisex worms but we aren't. The core reason for brain differences seems to occur in utero. There is a stage of development when male fetuses receive an extra blast of testosterone that female fetuses do not, this is believed to have subtle, but real, changes on the brain.
So you believe someone that said a blast of testosterone in the uterus will have effects on the way someone thinks for their entire lives. And I do not. But I am brainwashed?
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Hormones are also a big factor.
Testosterone leads to increased aggression and risk taking.
Males have way, way more testosterone in them than females on average.
Women are less aggressive and more risk-averse as a consequence.
This has relevance to SC2 (and a billion other things)
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EPT
