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Why are there no women that can compete at the same level as men in starcraft? I find the lack of women at the top of even cerebral games interesting. for example in starcraft 2, the only woman most even consider to be a top player is scarlett, who was born male (not trying to take anything away from her.)
In the only two matches i have seen with female starcraft players, the two matches between startale and azubu during the preseason. the first match, between eve and aphrodite was a proxy voidray all-in which failed pretty spectacularly, followed by aphrodite getting rolled by supernova, with what looked to be minimal effort. To date, neither female player has been seen again in the GSL or GSTL. This makes me ask myself whether their inclusion on the teams are essentially publicity stunts or not.
Chess is another great example, Judit polgar is the only female GM to peak at above 2700 elo (2735), and is currently 2695 the highest ranked female chess player in the world. at this moment there are nearly 50 male GM's above 2700, the highest ranked being magnus carlson at 2868.
I do understand that there are more male players than female players, which means that there are going to be more men in the top than women, but to have NO women (biologically speaking) at the top of these games makes one wonder.
These are both games where there is, or rather should be little to no difference in the physical aspect of the game, unlike most sports where men are just physically able to compete at a higher level. So why is it that women are seemingly unable to compete at the highest level?
NOTE: no disrespect towards female starcraft players intended
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I think most are just not interested. Your chess example shows that if they want to get into it they can, they just don't seem to care.
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Probably because woman don't want to sped 10hrs a day sitting in front of a computer
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Isn't it as simple as the top female players not currently being as skilled as the top male players? It's not an issue of sex, but one of a small amount of women not playing at the same level as the top tier in a massive pool of male players. If more girls start playing, odds are you'd see more girls playing at the top level.
EDIT: Not to mention that, generally speaking, girls who play video games regularly are a minority among females. How many of those girl gamers are willing to play a game as complex and difficult as StarCraft at a competitive level, and how many of THOSE are willing to train to become the best at that game?
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well ... I think ... good question!
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On April 09 2013 02:54 polysciguy wrote:
I do understand that there are more male players than female players, which means that there are going to be more men in the top than women[...]
Far more male players, but most importantly the girls tend to be far more casual when it comes to Starcraft I guess (not meaning to be sexist, but a good chunk of them play to hang out with the boys / because it makes boyfriend happy).
Basically, a lack of interest I guess.
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On April 09 2013 02:58 LuisFrost wrote:
I think most are just not interested. Your chess example shows that if they want to get into it they can, they just don't seem to care.
true, but even my chess example shows that even the top female players have never been as good as the top male players and the polgar's were raised to play chess at a grandmaster level.
and while i will agree with archas the lack of women playing may have something to do with the lack of numbers at the top level, it shouldn't mean that there are NO women (again biologically speaking) playing at the top level, since the ladder is coed, the top women should still be playing against men that they are equal with, accordign to the MMR.
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On April 09 2013 02:58 AGIANTSMURF wrote:
Probably because woman don't want to sped 10hrs a day sitting in front of a computer
More than do you think do.
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On April 09 2013 03:04 Teodice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 02:58 AGIANTSMURF wrote:
Probably because woman don't want to sped 10hrs a day sitting in front of a computer More than do you think do.
facebook doesn't count
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On April 09 2013 02:58 AGIANTSMURF wrote:
Probably because woman don't want to sped 10hrs a day sitting in front of a computer
That and personally I find very few women actually have real dedication to hobbies, they seem to have phases of interest but it's usually not genuine. I've taught guitar to many girls who drop interest a few weeks later, for example.
This applies even to typically female dominated hobbies, IMO.
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Simple answer: Statistics. There are much more male than female players both in chess and SC.
Bilalic looked at a set of data encompassing all known German players – over 120,000 individuals, of whom 113,000 are men. He directly compared the top 100 players of either gender and used a mathematical model to work out the expected difference in their Elo ratings, given the size of the groups they belong to.
The model revealed that the greater proportion of male chess players accounts for a whopping 96% of the difference in ability between the two genders at the highest level of play. If more women took up chess, you’d see that difference close substantially.
http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2008/12/23/why-are-there-so-few-female-chess-grandmasters/
Edit: Jesus. Guys. Women are "less dedicated than men" or "want to spend less time getting good"? I expected more from you. =/
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The gaming hobby itself started as a quite male-centric thing (regarding Starcraft-like games) and then progressed onwards from that. I would say that it's a matter of history, sosiological upbringing, expectations towards genders and the communication between genders. Women can be as good as men in Starcraft, this is not a sports that physical attributes affect much at all. The road for a female progamer is different than for a male though: You need to practice a game that is male-centric and if you get good enough, join a team that is going to be full of men as well. You're going to train with and against men and the events you get to are organized by men and hosted by men.
Feeling confident in an enviroment that is so geared towards men can be daunting, this even without considering the shitty aspects of the internet (towards women).
Prospective female progamers do have one good thing on their side: every single team (dunno about koreans, I can't predict their thinking well enough) would love a well-playing female progamer in their team. No doubt about that.
Everyone who is saying that women have fleeting hobbies and don't concentrate on one subject as well as men are just plain wrong. This is stereotypes and expectations that are talking, which in turn become more true for every person who thinks like that.
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On April 09 2013 03:05 Bakkendepao wrote:
luckily we have scarlett
people so often seem to forget her. she just won against mvp...
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On April 09 2013 02:58 AGIANTSMURF wrote:
Probably because woman don't want to sped 10hrs a day sitting in front of a computer
I would imagine this to be the case.
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On April 09 2013 03:09 RolleMcKnolle wrote:people so often seem to forget her. she just won against mvp...
Eh, it's not even that people forget about her, it's that she's really the only shining example of a successful female StarCraft II progamer. Hell, I can probably name five or six female SCII players off the top of my head, tops... and of those, only Scarlett stands out as an exceptional player. Meanwhile, I can rattle off dozens and dozens of amazing male players.
Like I said, it's a matter of few females performing in a male-dominated environment, with even fewer of those females standing out.
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Studies taken with a group of man and women playing some kind of go-like game in an MRI has shown, that the male brains pleasure center was more active when successful and therefore making it easier to learn an effective strategy.
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On April 09 2013 03:13 Xarell wrote:
Studies taken with a group of man and women playing some kind of go-like game in an MRI has shown, that the male brains pleasure center was more active when successful and therefore making it easier to learn an effective strategy.
Would you happen to a have a link to those studies? I'd be interested in taking a look at them.
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EPT
