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Austria24422 Posts
On March 02 2013 00:05 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 23:30 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 01 2013 22:57 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:49 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 22:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:44 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 22:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:27 nkr wrote:On March 01 2013 22:25 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote:
Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'. I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own? Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money? My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off. On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious.... They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas. Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh? I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way. I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion. IPL also had LoL and Shootmania, the former of which is obviously a big deal in eSports. And IPL started off with only SC2. Can you imagine what would happen if IPL simply dropped SC2 but continued to produce content for LoL? They would get absolutely railed by the community. I just can't see them dropping only SC2 no matter what.
I doubt a company would give a damn about a community they're no longer a part of, that's not how business works. The SC2 community might be upset but why would IPL care? The LoL community won't give a damn either.
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On March 02 2013 00:05 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 23:30 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 01 2013 22:57 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:49 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 22:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:44 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 22:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:27 nkr wrote:On March 01 2013 22:25 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote:
Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'. I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own? Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money? My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off. On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious.... They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas. Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh? I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way. I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion. IPL also had LoL and Shootmania, the former of which is obviously a big deal in eSports. And IPL started off with only SC2. Can you imagine what would happen if IPL simply dropped SC2 but continued to produce content for LoL? They would get absolutely railed by the community. I just can't see them dropping only SC2 no matter what.
But keep in mind that IPL was also sustained by LoL's numbers as well as SC2's numbers. One would think that IPL wasn't in that bad of a position with LoL also pulling in big stream numbers, bigger than SC2's numbers at least.
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China6331 Posts
My sources indicate an official announcement is coming next week.
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On March 01 2013 23:52 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 23:37 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 23:07 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 22:57 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:49 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 22:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:44 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 22:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:27 nkr wrote:On March 01 2013 22:25 AnomalySC2 wrote:
[quote]
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own? Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money? My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off. On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious.... They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas. Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh? I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way. I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion. Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event. To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2. Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer. I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume. Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2. As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today. Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
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On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Their new studio in a more expensive part of Seoul costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around.
IPL expanded while their business was going downhill. Every business must expand their portfolio to grow. But expansion / investment has no correlation to how well the business is currently doing.
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Austria24422 Posts
On March 02 2013 00:07 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 23:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On March 01 2013 23:43 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 23:41 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around. I also like to add that GOM ran Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and A.V.A. leagues alongside their BW leagues back in the day. GOMtv running multiple leagues for multiple games is hardly unusual. 3 years of running only SC2 tournaments, and now that viewer numbers are way down across the board, they start to expand their tournament roster. Yep, not unusual. Where exactly are you getting their viewership numbers from? Also how do you explain their new expensive studio with that logic? I'm getting my viewer numbers from Twitch.tv, and the general amount of activity forums see relating to SC2 events.
GOM doesn't receive all their viewers on Twitch. They got a GOM streamer on their website. I personally watch there. They have subscriptions too. They have VODs for people who can't catch the games live. So your reliable viewer numbers are not exactly reliable.
Activity on forums... lol
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On March 02 2013 00:10 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 00:07 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 23:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On March 01 2013 23:43 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 23:41 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around. I also like to add that GOM ran Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and A.V.A. leagues alongside their BW leagues back in the day. GOMtv running multiple leagues for multiple games is hardly unusual. 3 years of running only SC2 tournaments, and now that viewer numbers are way down across the board, they start to expand their tournament roster. Yep, not unusual. Where exactly are you getting their viewership numbers from? Also how do you explain their new expensive studio with that logic? I'm getting my viewer numbers from Twitch.tv, and the general amount of activity forums see relating to SC2 events. GOM doesn't receive all their viewers on Twitch. They got a GOM streamer on their website. I personally watch there. They have subscriptions too. They have VODs for people who can't catch the games live. So your reliable viewer numbers are not exactly reliable. Activity on forums... lol
They have, however, recently starting streaming some of their events on Twitch, and the numbers are very low. I'm sure there are plenty more people whom view all the content by vods, which of course they receive by buying tickets. So these people won't show up during the live streams on Twitch, but my suspicion still stands that they're shedding numbers just as badly as all the other SC2 tournaments. Though, I should mention that Dreamhack apparently has had growth in numbers, so there is that.
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On March 02 2013 00:07 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 23:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On March 01 2013 23:43 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 23:41 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around. I also like to add that GOM ran Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and A.V.A. leagues alongside their BW leagues back in the day. GOMtv running multiple leagues for multiple games is hardly unusual. 3 years of running only SC2 tournaments, and now that viewer numbers are way down across the board, they start to expand their tournament roster. Yep, not unusual. Where exactly are you getting their viewership numbers from? Also how do you explain their new expensive studio with that logic? I'm getting my viewer numbers from Twitch.tv, and the general amount of activity forums see relating to SC2 events.
Those are terrible metrics to gauge SC2 by and doing is incredibly naïve. That is like gauging the popularity of a TV show by the activity on forums and number of views on their youtube page. I watch SC2 on my TV and don’t post in live update threads often. You can’t just taking the limited about of front facing information available and then make a grand statement like SC2 is dying. And if you do, be prepared to be shouted down by people who know better.
But I have wasted enough time on the forums this morning. I have appeals that must be dismissed and motions for sanctions to draft.
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Well, I was really looking forward to IPL6. 
Hoping for the best...
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This is not a good sign at all :X i really hope we hear a statement from IPL soon!
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China6331 Posts
Here we go, from IPL's Chinese partner MarsTV (also GSL's broadcaster in China):
http://bbs.marstv.com/thread-189921-1-1.html
MarsTV contacted IPL immediately as its Chinese partner and host of IPL China regional events. After a week of internal discussion, IPL informed us that unless it's officially acquired by any organization or individual, IGN Proleague will be come history. Which means IPL6, scheduled to take place in Las Vegas, March 28th to 31th, will be postponed indefinitely.
The IPL6 Starcraft II Chinese Regional results will remain effective, but the League of Legends regional will be postponed indefinitely, we are deeply sorry about this development.
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On March 02 2013 00:09 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 23:52 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 23:37 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 23:07 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 22:57 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:49 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 22:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:44 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 22:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:27 nkr wrote:
[quote]
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money? My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off. On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious.... They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas. Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh? I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way. I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion. Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event. To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2. Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer. I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume. Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2. As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today. Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity. Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear.
Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true.
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On March 02 2013 00:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 00:07 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 23:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On March 01 2013 23:43 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 23:41 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around. I also like to add that GOM ran Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and A.V.A. leagues alongside their BW leagues back in the day. GOMtv running multiple leagues for multiple games is hardly unusual. 3 years of running only SC2 tournaments, and now that viewer numbers are way down across the board, they start to expand their tournament roster. Yep, not unusual. Where exactly are you getting their viewership numbers from? Also how do you explain their new expensive studio with that logic? I'm getting my viewer numbers from Twitch.tv, and the general amount of activity forums see relating to SC2 events. Those are terrible metrics to gauge SC2 by and doing is incredibly naïve. That is like gauging the popularity of a TV show by the activity on forums and number of views on their youtube page. I watch SC2 on my TV and don’t post in live update threads often. You can’t just taking the limited about of front facing information available and then make a grand statement like SC2 is dying. And if you do, be prepared to be shouted down by people who know better. But I have wasted enough time on the forums this morning. I have appeals that must be dismissed and motions for sanctions to draft.
Ok and I'm also just factoring in, you know, the closure of one of SC2's largest tournaments and all the player retirements/team closures or mergers that have happened recently.......
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On March 02 2013 00:18 digmouse wrote:Here we go, from IPL's Chinese partner MarsTV (also GSL's broadcaster in China): http://bbs.marstv.com/thread-189921-1-1.htmlShow nested quote +MarsTV contacted IPL immediately as its Chinese partner and host of IPL China regional events. After a week of internal discussion, IPL informed us that unless it's officially acquired by any organization or individual, IGN Proleague will be come history. Which means IPL6, scheduled to take place in Las Vegas, March 28th to 31th, will be postponed indefinitely.
The IPL6 Starcraft II Chinese Regional results will remain effective, but the League of Legends regional will be postponed indefinitely, we are deeply sorry about this development.
Not surprising considering that OGN also cancelled their equivalent IPL LoL qualifiers.
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On March 02 2013 00:19 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 00:09 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 23:52 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 23:37 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 23:07 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 22:57 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:49 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 22:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:44 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 22:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:
[quote]
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious.... They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas. Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh? I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way. I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion. Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event. To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2. Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer. I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume. Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2. As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today. Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity. Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo. Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear. Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true.
So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we?
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On March 02 2013 00:23 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 00:19 Plansix wrote:On March 02 2013 00:09 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 23:52 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 23:37 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 23:07 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 22:57 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:49 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 22:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:44 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh? I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way. I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion. Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event. To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2. Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer. I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume. Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2. As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today. Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity. Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo. Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear. Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true. So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we?
It is a perfect counter argument to “People are negative about SC2, so there must be a reason they are like that. And that reason is the game is bad and it is dying.” Once again, your proof for SC2 is dying is that people are negative about it on internet forums and the twitch numbers are sometimes lower than LoL.
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On March 02 2013 00:26 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 00:23 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 02 2013 00:19 Plansix wrote:On March 02 2013 00:09 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 23:52 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 23:37 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 23:07 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 22:57 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 22:49 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 22:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:
[quote]
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way. I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion. Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event. To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2. Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer. I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume. Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2. As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today. Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity. Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo. Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear. Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true. So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we? It is a perfect counter argument to “People are negative about SC2, so there must be a reason they are like that. And that reason is the game is bad and it is dying.” Once again, your proof for SC2 is dying is that people are negative about it on internet forums and the twitch numbers are sometimes lower than LoL.
Uhh no, Twitch numbers have been sinking steadily for SC2. That's my point. And saying they're "sometimes" lower than LoL is a pretty big stretch, try something along the lines of, sometimes during major finals SC2 gets close to LoL's average viewer numbers.
For instance, LoL is at 116k viewers right now, and WoL is at 5.8k. HoTS is at 3.4k, figured I should mention that before someone goes crazy on me 
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I hope there will be a happy ending for IGL/IPL somehow.
Sucks that there is this much uncertainty so close to the event. Hopefully, not too many live visitors will get screwed on their booked flights and hotel stays.
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may i remind you that this is not about SC2 vs LoL ? LoL is on the f*ing same boat -_-
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This makes me sad, IPL put up a lot of good jobs, ran incredibly well run tournaments, and never had any bullshit attached to it. I would argue that IPL is the best run league in NA, and maybe even including Europe.
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EPT
