Update:Gamespot is also reporting that multiple sources have told them IPL6 will be cancelled. IPL/IGN are still keeping silent on the situation.
The IGN ProLeague 6 event scheduled for March 28 through 31 at The Cosmopolitan in Las Vegas will be cancelled, multiple sources close to the situation have told GameSpot...
...Both IPL and IGN declined to comment when approached by GameSpot.
SirScoots Twitter:
I keep hearing rumors of IPL6 maybe not happening. But I can still register, so that has to be a good sign. Right?
BREAKING: SSNN is going to go ahead and call this one - IPL6 will be cxl/postponed. #sirscootsnewsnetwork
You can have whatever opinion you want on Scoots, but he's a reliable source with lots of connections in e-sports. He called the Hyun to Quantic merger news a few days before it was announced, so of course he has credibility.
Scoots beating Slasher to the punch once again.
If true, then IPL really needs to make a statement soon.
BREAKING: SSNN is going to go ahead and call this one - IPL6 will be cxl/postponed. #sirscootsnewsnetwork
You can have whatever opinion you want on Scoots, but he's a reliable source with lots of connections in e-sports. He called the Hyun to Quantic merger news a few days before it was announced, so of course he has credibility. Scoots beating Slasher to the punch once again.
If true, then IPL really needs to make a statement soon.
LOL.
Damn, I can't say I'm that shocked considering what's been going on lately.
Oh come on, he has been tweeting random shit about IPL forever. You've been troll. He previously said that it was bought by Gawker, that was earlier today.
Still would like to see more evidence or signs before we can call this. Even though Scoots is a reputable and well-connected member of the SC2 community, this could be misinformed or a wrong call.
And it will prolly just be postponed if anything, because since IPL isn't really IGN anymore, it would be weird for it to have a big event under the IGN tag...
Brandon Storck @BrandonStorck @SirScoots I work tech-Ops (Contractor) for IPL, no way in hell they would cancel it. Way to much money already spent to cancel.
Scott SmithVerified account @SirScoots @BrandonStorck Umm. Booked gear has a CXL cost...it is not the same as a USE cost. You really going to try and tell me this stuff?
Brandon Storck @BrandonStorck @SirScoots It's more than equipment (Not always rented) It's a combination of multiple factors, not just bare equipment costs.
Brandon Storck @BrandonStorck @SirScoots Everything that is going into IPL6 makes canceling somthing on this scale a huge loss no matter what as with any event this scale
Scott SmithVerified account @SirScoots @BrandonStorck Yes, and the point you are missing is the CXL is still less cost than going through with the operation.
Brandon Storck @BrandonStorck @SirScoots I disagree, there is a much larger picture here. The total loss of running IPL6 is less than cancelling the event.
Scott SmithVerified account @SirScoots @BrandonStorck I am not talking marketing/brand issues with the cxl here, I am speaking of cold hard cash costs of the cxl, that is all.
I'm going to assume that his "BREAKING" Tweets are just to troll us a bit and jab at "journalism". Unless, Fionn, you're trying to prove something to Scoots?
On March 01 2013 11:07 Endall wrote: I'm going to assume that his "BREAKING" Tweets are just to troll us a bit and jab at "journalism". Unless, Fionn, you're trying to prove something to Scoots?
If Scoots is wrong, then he's wrong and it was a troll/joke/unfaithful rumors. If he's right, then at least we know now instead of four weeks from now when tons of people have plane tickets booked, etc.
On March 01 2013 11:13 TommyP wrote: He also said Red Bull bought IPL a few days ago. He's trolling and it's not funny
Scoots isn't the only one hearing rumors about this, though.
Anyways, if he's wrong, David Ting or someone from IPL can just say so. No big deal. If there is some truth to it, then hopefully we find out sooner rather than later.
On March 01 2013 11:11 Arceus wrote: Dont know if this has anything to do with IGN wanting to sell IPL. Kinda make sense
That much would be obvious. Though I thought that picking up LoL would assure them some sort of assurance. Aren't they supposed to run the mid-season qualification or something ?
On March 01 2013 11:13 TommyP wrote: He also said Red Bull bought IPL a few days ago. He's trolling and it's not funny
Scoots isn't the only one hearing rumors about this, though.
Anyways, if he's wrong, David Ting or someone from IPL can just say so. No big deal. If there is some truth to it, then hopefully we find out sooner rather than later.
Didn't the new IGN owner person say he wanted to cut down some parts of IPL? Maybe this is what he means... However, IPL just announced an Polt vs Hyun Showmatch for 8,000 dollars which seems to contradict this.
On March 01 2013 11:13 TommyP wrote: He also said Red Bull bought IPL a few days ago. He's trolling and it's not funny
I joked about it earlier but I don't think he's trolling here, it could happen, don't think it's too far-fetched.
Still think it's more likely to take place than not, but still, with the whole ownership change and looking for a buyer thing, it's completely realistic that some things could come up and might make it necessary to change plans.
If IPL6 were to be canceled, the PR nightmare of compensating and apologizing for canceling or delaying a massive event would be enough to give IPL a second thought. This isn't even including the financial costs of renting all that equipment, the venue and advertising the event which would all go down the drain.
No way. Not only would it probably cost more at this point to cancel the event than to run it (like the contractor guy said on page 1), it would be a ton of bad publicity towards IGN and pretty much destroy any chance they have of selling the IPL brand. Scoots is being a bad troll again.
EDIT: Since it appears that this is pretty likely, I should apologize to Scoots (not that he read this or cares, lol) and state that IGN is unbelievably stupid for canceling this event, or even allowing this rumor to spread, if they actually do want to sell IPL.
On March 01 2013 11:39 bduddy wrote: No way. Not only would it probably cost more at this point to cancel the event than to run it (like the contractor guy said on page 1), it would be a ton of bad publicity towards IGN and pretty much destroy any chance they have of selling the IPL brand. Scoots is being a bad troll again.
If it's as widespread of a rumour as Scoots says, it's at least more likely than "no way".
They've got a Vegas giga-hotel booked after running one of the most successful events in SC2 history, I think there is too much already invested here to cancel it now, also, all the players mention it in their interviews so I'm assuming there is nothing we know that they don't. I think IPL switching to HOTS is worst case scenario.....I hope....
Are people really that surprised with everything thats happened (IGN being sold/bought, new owners wanting to re-focus the IGN brand and sell IPL brand)?
On March 01 2013 11:50 isaachukfan wrote: They've got a Vegas giga-hotel booked after running one of the most successful events in SC2 history, I think there is too much already invested here to cancel it now, also, all the players mention it in their interviews so I'm assuming there is nothing we know that they don't. I think IPL switching to HOTS is worst case scenario.....I hope....
How much is too much? Yes, canceling is expensive but it would still be cheaper than to run the event, they just would turn the positive PR they'd get from the event into a lot of negativity towards IPL but if they needed to cut costs severely, they'd probably cancel.
Seeing how they just announced a new 8,000$ showmatch with Polt and Hyun, it's not too likely that they need to cut costs severely, unless that's already a result of the reallocation of resources meant for IPL6.
In the interests of potentially saving people time and money, i'll take the hit.
Pretty much every team and news group is either holding off on booking travel or changing their plans (keeping the flights/hotels but doing other stuff).
We don't have confirmation from IGN that IPL6 is cancelled...but we all have REALLY good sources/"confirmation" outside of IGN who believe that it's either cancelled or postponed. I think it's public enough at a "everyone in the know" level that there's a responsibility to let fans know: "Check how much advance you have to give to a hotel to cancel" or "Can i rebook this flight" IF it is cancelled/postponed. Teams can eat the costs if things are going where we think they may be going.
Again, it's not 100% cancelled, but it's the common belief amongst everyone in the know that it is somewhere between 0 and 99.9999% not happening as planned.
Then again IPL could be bought tomorrow and the whole thing goes off without a hiccup!
On March 01 2013 11:50 isaachukfan wrote: They've got a Vegas giga-hotel booked after running one of the most successful events in SC2 history, I think there is too much already invested here to cancel it now, also, all the players mention it in their interviews so I'm assuming there is nothing we know that they don't. I think IPL switching to HOTS is worst case scenario.....I hope....
How much is too much? Yes, canceling is expensive but it would still be cheaper than to run the event, they just would turn the positive PR they'd get from the event into a lot of negativity towards IPL but if they needed to cut costs severely, they'd probably cancel.
Seeing how they just announced a new 8,000$ showmatch with Polt and Hyun, it's not too likely that they need to cut costs severely, unless that's already a result of the reallocation of resources meant for IPL6.
You don't know their financial situation, it's not as simple as saying "if we cancel, this WILL be cheaper than running the event". For an example (which is not relavent to sc2 tournaments, but for the sake of an example), businesses that dig for oil and shit.. is incredibly expensive. If they're running at a loss, they're not uncommonly better off operating at a loss rather than to close down, because the cost to take down all that infrastructure is way more than what they lose year to year.
Better hope the Wolfs are never coming for him, no one might think it is true.
But guess it is really in the talks then, if they would really decide on it though ... from a las vegas 5 star to a motel on the highway ? Maybe the new owners think that would work out, you never know with the manager type, some are really hit and miss.
not really a surprise to me, i said before, if the owner of ign wants to sell of ipl, There is no way he actually wants this event to happen. Its a waste of money in his book. They have also closed down other sites they own as well so this isnt about "sc2 dieing" like how the other thread went in a mess. IPL also runs League of legends, Is that dieing as well?. This is about IGN refocus sin on a new strategy going into the future.
Even if this event takes place, whats really going to come out of it for IGN? its just going to be a give-away of cash and a large amount of spending. AS the brandbuilding of IPL stops right here no matter what.
Even if IPL gets purchased by another company(which i highly doubt). It wont be called IPL and it almost certainly will have to be downscaled. ( no more cosmo etc)
Even if IGN is looking to sell IPL they can still get money off of it in the meantime by having the event. I imagine they'd loose money if they canceled though.
Important Edit: I just talked to a few people close to the issue, and their advice was that if you are considering cancelling/changing your plans, that probably a really really good option to consider...Again, not 100% and i don't have confirmation from IGN. Just what i've heard.......dot dot dot dot.
On March 01 2013 12:30 Ry2D2 wrote: Even if IGN is looking to sell IPL they can still get money off of it in the meantime by having the event. I imagine they'd loose money if they canceled though.
Brandon Storck @BrandonStorck @SirScoots Everything that is going into IPL6 makes canceling somthing on this scale a huge loss no matter what as with any event this scale
Scott SmithVerified account @SirScoots @BrandonStorck Yes, and the point you are missing is the CXL is still less cost than going through with the operation.
Brandon Storck @BrandonStorck @SirScoots I disagree, there is a much larger picture here. The total loss of running IPL6 is less than cancelling the event.
Scott SmithVerified account @SirScoots @BrandonStorck I am not talking marketing/brand issues with the cxl here, I am speaking of cold hard cash costs of the cxl, that is all.
I like how these two are essentially in a competition to see who can leak more shit and make things worse for the community. Such a mature business model we have for this scene here in the west.
On March 01 2013 12:52 Maesy wrote: I like how these two are essentially in a competition to see who can leak more shit and make things worse for the community. Such a mature business model we have for this scene here in the west.
That's really not it at all, at the very least this is information that is very much in the public interest (especially for people who might potentially lose a lot of money from having to move and/or cancel flights/hotels).
Journalism lives and breathes by breaking stories, and being the first to break a story. It's one of the foundations of modern journalism, and is extremely cutthroat because of the immediacy of the internet.
Personally, I praise anyone that would put themselves out there in order to expose information like this.
While spoiling player signings/contracts/announcements is a whole different story, it still has it's place for bringing viewers and readers into online publications - while it may be annoying for organisations to have to deal with, it's just a fact of life at this stage.
On March 01 2013 12:52 Maesy wrote: I like how these two are essentially in a competition to see who can leak more shit and make things worse for the community. Such a mature business model we have for this scene here in the west.
That's really not it at all, at the very least this is information that is very much in the public interest (especially for people who might potentially lose a lot of money from having to move and/or cancel flights/hotels).
Journalism lives and breathes by breaking stories, and being the first to break a story. It's one of the foundations of modern journalism, and is extremely cutthroat because of the immediacy of the internet.
Personally, I praise anyone that would put themselves out there in order to expose information like this.
While spoiling player signings/contracts/announcements is a whole different story, it still has it's place for bringing viewers and readers into online publications - while it may be annoying for organisations to have to deal with, it's just a fact of life at this stage.
That's all fine and good but Scoots isn't a journalist.
On March 01 2013 12:52 Maesy wrote: I like how these two are essentially in a competition to see who can leak more shit and make things worse for the community. Such a mature business model we have for this scene here in the west.
That's really not it at all, at the very least this is information that is very much in the public interest (especially for people who might potentially lose a lot of money from having to move and/or cancel flights/hotels).
Journalism lives and breathes by breaking stories, and being the first to break a story. It's one of the foundations of modern journalism, and is extremely cutthroat because of the immediacy of the internet.
Personally, I praise anyone that would put themselves out there in order to expose information like this.
While spoiling player signings/contracts/announcements is a whole different story, it still has it's place for bringing viewers and readers into online publications - while it may be annoying for organisations to have to deal with, it's just a fact of life at this stage.
If the whole thing is true then they're going to piss off a whole lot of people that already have those flight tickets and hotel reservations as you said and this is going to do nothing besides make people disappointed early by something that could be complete bullshit and a rumor that's just floating around.
This information should be coming out from IPL, not as a 'leak' from Scoots or Slasher. I just personally think it's getting really fucking annoying.
On March 01 2013 12:52 Maesy wrote: I like how these two are essentially in a competition to see who can leak more shit and make things worse for the community. Such a mature business model we have for this scene here in the west.
That's really not it at all, at the very least this is information that is very much in the public interest (especially for people who might potentially lose a lot of money from having to move and/or cancel flights/hotels).
Journalism lives and breathes by breaking stories, and being the first to break a story. It's one of the foundations of modern journalism, and is extremely cutthroat because of the immediacy of the internet.
Personally, I praise anyone that would put themselves out there in order to expose information like this.
While spoiling player signings/contracts/announcements is a whole different story, it still has it's place for bringing viewers and readers into online publications - while it may be annoying for organisations to have to deal with, it's just a fact of life at this stage.
That's all fine and good but Scoots isn't a journalist.
Citizen journalism is very much a thing in the world of twitter and the blogosphere.
On March 01 2013 12:52 Maesy wrote: I like how these two are essentially in a competition to see who can leak more shit and make things worse for the community. Such a mature business model we have for this scene here in the west.
That's really not it at all, at the very least this is information that is very much in the public interest (especially for people who might potentially lose a lot of money from having to move and/or cancel flights/hotels).
Journalism lives and breathes by breaking stories, and being the first to break a story. It's one of the foundations of modern journalism, and is extremely cutthroat because of the immediacy of the internet.
Personally, I praise anyone that would put themselves out there in order to expose information like this.
While spoiling player signings/contracts/announcements is a whole different story, it still has it's place for bringing viewers and readers into online publications - while it may be annoying for organisations to have to deal with, it's just a fact of life at this stage.
If the whole thing is true then they're going to piss off a whole lot of people that already have those flight tickets and hotel reservations as you said and this is going to do nothing besides make people disappointed early by something that could be complete bullshit and a rumor that's just floating around.
This information should be coming out from IPL, not as a 'leak' from Scoots or Slasher. I just personally think it's getting really fucking annoying.
Or saving more people from booking flights and accomodation, or even allowing people to cancel and recoup significant amounts of money. This is a community of largely poor college/university students, whom can't really afford to lose hundreds of dollars in travel and cancellation fees.
On March 01 2013 12:52 Maesy wrote: I like how these two are essentially in a competition to see who can leak more shit and make things worse for the community. Such a mature business model we have for this scene here in the west.
That's really not it at all, at the very least this is information that is very much in the public interest (especially for people who might potentially lose a lot of money from having to move and/or cancel flights/hotels).
Journalism lives and breathes by breaking stories, and being the first to break a story. It's one of the foundations of modern journalism, and is extremely cutthroat because of the immediacy of the internet.
Personally, I praise anyone that would put themselves out there in order to expose information like this.
While spoiling player signings/contracts/announcements is a whole different story, it still has it's place for bringing viewers and readers into online publications - while it may be annoying for organisations to have to deal with, it's just a fact of life at this stage.
If the whole thing is true then they're going to piss off a whole lot of people that already have those flight tickets and hotel reservations as you said and this is going to do nothing besides make people disappointed early by something that could be complete bullshit and a rumor that's just floating around.
This information should be coming out from IPL, not as a 'leak' from Scoots or Slasher. I just personally think it's getting really fucking annoying.
Or saving more people from booking flights and accomodation, or even allowing people to cancel and recoup significant amounts of money. This is a community of largely poor college/university students, whom can't really afford to lose hundreds of dollars in travel and cancellation fees.
And who's the best person to 'warn' people about booking their flights and reserving accommodations? The organization hosting the event giving a formal announcement that IPL6 is 'actually' being pushed back and delayed, or Scoots waving his hands and igniting unnecessary rumor drama because he simply enjoys it?
On March 01 2013 12:52 Maesy wrote: I like how these two are essentially in a competition to see who can leak more shit and make things worse for the community. Such a mature business model we have for this scene here in the west.
That's really not it at all, at the very least this is information that is very much in the public interest (especially for people who might potentially lose a lot of money from having to move and/or cancel flights/hotels).
Journalism lives and breathes by breaking stories, and being the first to break a story. It's one of the foundations of modern journalism, and is extremely cutthroat because of the immediacy of the internet.
Personally, I praise anyone that would put themselves out there in order to expose information like this.
While spoiling player signings/contracts/announcements is a whole different story, it still has it's place for bringing viewers and readers into online publications - while it may be annoying for organisations to have to deal with, it's just a fact of life at this stage.
If the whole thing is true then they're going to piss off a whole lot of people that already have those flight tickets and hotel reservations as you said and this is going to do nothing besides make people disappointed early by something that could be complete bullshit and a rumor that's just floating around.
This information should be coming out from IPL, not as a 'leak' from Scoots or Slasher. I just personally think it's getting really fucking annoying.
Or saving more people from booking flights and accomodation, or even allowing people to cancel and recoup significant amounts of money. This is a community of largely poor college/university students, whom can't really afford to lose hundreds of dollars in travel and cancellation fees.
And who's the best person to 'warn' people about booking their flights and reserving accommodations? The organization hosting the event giving a formal announcement that IPL6 is 'actually' being pushed back and delayed, or Scoots waving his hands and igniting unnecessary rumor drama because he simply enjoys it?
Honestly, the sooner it is announced, the better for the community. If it pushes IPL to make a statement sooner than they planned too, I'm fine with it.
On March 01 2013 13:14 HotGlueGun wrote: Guys on State of the Game basically confirmed that it is cancelled.
Yeah I just heard that too. Really confused on what's going to happen considering they just had a ton of qualifiers and now there's the problem that was stated above. Wasn't this event scheduled to happen very soon?
On March 01 2013 12:52 Maesy wrote: I like how these two are essentially in a competition to see who can leak more shit and make things worse for the community. Such a mature business model we have for this scene here in the west.
That's really not it at all, at the very least this is information that is very much in the public interest (especially for people who might potentially lose a lot of money from having to move and/or cancel flights/hotels).
Journalism lives and breathes by breaking stories, and being the first to break a story. It's one of the foundations of modern journalism, and is extremely cutthroat because of the immediacy of the internet.
Personally, I praise anyone that would put themselves out there in order to expose information like this.
While spoiling player signings/contracts/announcements is a whole different story, it still has it's place for bringing viewers and readers into online publications - while it may be annoying for organisations to have to deal with, it's just a fact of life at this stage.
If the whole thing is true then they're going to piss off a whole lot of people that already have those flight tickets and hotel reservations as you said and this is going to do nothing besides make people disappointed early by something that could be complete bullshit and a rumor that's just floating around.
This information should be coming out from IPL, not as a 'leak' from Scoots or Slasher. I just personally think it's getting really fucking annoying.
Or saving more people from booking flights and accomodation, or even allowing people to cancel and recoup significant amounts of money. This is a community of largely poor college/university students, whom can't really afford to lose hundreds of dollars in travel and cancellation fees.
And who's the best person to 'warn' people about booking their flights and reserving accommodations? The organization hosting the event giving a formal announcement that IPL6 is 'actually' being pushed back and delayed, or Scoots waving his hands and igniting unnecessary rumor drama because he simply enjoys it?
The best person to warn the community is he who has reliable information which can be used to protect or help people. If IPL ends up going ahead, then great! Everyone can band together and hunt Scoots with pitchforks. If it does get cancelled, which seems likely given what has been leaked at this stage, hopefully there will be many people reunited with their money or dissuaded from losing their hard-earned. In the latter, we should be praising the efforts of people like scoots/slasher or whoever leaks the information.
It all looks clearer given the benefit of hindsight, but I'm sure if I was looking at booking travel today, and decided to wait and see how things played out, I would be extremely grateful for the information if the worst case scenario does come to pass.
On March 01 2013 12:52 Maesy wrote: I like how these two are essentially in a competition to see who can leak more shit and make things worse for the community. Such a mature business model we have for this scene here in the west.
That's really not it at all, at the very least this is information that is very much in the public interest (especially for people who might potentially lose a lot of money from having to move and/or cancel flights/hotels).
Journalism lives and breathes by breaking stories, and being the first to break a story. It's one of the foundations of modern journalism, and is extremely cutthroat because of the immediacy of the internet.
Personally, I praise anyone that would put themselves out there in order to expose information like this.
While spoiling player signings/contracts/announcements is a whole different story, it still has it's place for bringing viewers and readers into online publications - while it may be annoying for organisations to have to deal with, it's just a fact of life at this stage.
If the whole thing is true then they're going to piss off a whole lot of people that already have those flight tickets and hotel reservations as you said and this is going to do nothing besides make people disappointed early by something that could be complete bullshit and a rumor that's just floating around.
This information should be coming out from IPL, not as a 'leak' from Scoots or Slasher. I just personally think it's getting really fucking annoying.
Or saving more people from booking flights and accomodation, or even allowing people to cancel and recoup significant amounts of money. This is a community of largely poor college/university students, whom can't really afford to lose hundreds of dollars in travel and cancellation fees.
And who's the best person to 'warn' people about booking their flights and reserving accommodations? The organization hosting the event giving a formal announcement that IPL6 is 'actually' being pushed back and delayed, or Scoots waving his hands and igniting unnecessary rumor drama because he simply enjoys it?
Honestly, the sooner it is announced, the better for the community. If it pushes IPL to make a statement sooner than they planned too, I'm fine with it.
Yeah. Now that I heard it on SotG I understand they're pushing the issue to stop people from getting fucked over.
SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
You are an idiot, and IPL wasn't just SC2, but LoL and other games as well. You can't blame this on starcraft..
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
IPL6, a primarily League of Legends event might be cancelled.
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
That's not at all what they said but keep digging.
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
SC2 isn't dying. There were too many organizations and events colliding with each other and not enough money in the first place. It's probably a better thing if some of the organizations fall off so we're not constantly killing each other off until all we have left is GSL. Also mentioned before I typed this, League of Legends always had like 5x the viewers. Look back at the twitch viewers from Katowice. It was fucking insane.
Korean IPL6 LoL qualifiers was cancelled yesterday, according to a tweet. If that's true... IPL is done. And since people don't like SC2 dying, eSports dying! lol
$100 000 event... Damn that's a huge sunk cost. Hopefully IGN and IPL can pull through somehow. GOM to the rescue?
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
are you a complete idiot? the whole point they made was that sc2 isnt dying and people like you who cry its dying every 5 seconds are morons.
On March 01 2013 12:52 Maesy wrote: I like how these two are essentially in a competition to see who can leak more shit and make things worse for the community. Such a mature business model we have for this scene here in the west.
That's really not it at all, at the very least this is information that is very much in the public interest (especially for people who might potentially lose a lot of money from having to move and/or cancel flights/hotels).
Journalism lives and breathes by breaking stories, and being the first to break a story. It's one of the foundations of modern journalism, and is extremely cutthroat because of the immediacy of the internet.
Personally, I praise anyone that would put themselves out there in order to expose information like this.
While spoiling player signings/contracts/announcements is a whole different story, it still has it's place for bringing viewers and readers into online publications - while it may be annoying for organisations to have to deal with, it's just a fact of life at this stage.
That's all fine and good but Scoots isn't a journalist.
You're right, it's not journalism. Still though, I'd rather have as much time as possible to try and muster refunds for the flights and accommodations we've booked and I appreciate the opportunity to do such whether by a journalist or not.
On March 01 2013 13:26 geokilla wrote: Korean IPL6 LoL qualifiers was cancelled yesterday, according to a tweet. If that's true... IPL is done. And since people don't like SC2 dying, eSports dying! lol
$100 000 event... Damn that's a huge sunk cost. Hopefully IGN and IPL can pull through somehow. GOM to the rescue?
You don't seem to understand this is IGN being sold and has so little to do with esports :/
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
SC2 isn't dying. There were too many organizations and events colliding with each other and not enough money. It's probably a better thing if some of the organizations fall off so we're not constantly killing each other off until all we have left is GSL.
How many events, in NA anyways? I can only think of MLG, IPL, and NASL. IPL is far better than NASL imo. In fact, I actually prefer IPL over MLG.. The free HD VODs won me over, along with IPL5.
Makes sense honestly, when the parent company says they're trying to sell IPL it's pretty hard to imagine how they would be putting on major live events...
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
SC2 isn't dying. There were too many organizations and events colliding with each other and not enough money. It's probably a better thing if some of the organizations fall off so we're not constantly killing each other off until all we have left is GSL.
How many events, in NA anyways? I can only think of MLG, IPL, and NASL. IPL is far better than NASL imo. In fact, I actually prefer IPL over MLG.. The free HD VODs won me over, along with IPL5.
I preferred NASL over IPL because their finals were so enticing to me but I don't want to turn this into opinion on favorites xD. That's pretty much all it is for NA. But Even 3 seems like -too- much for NA to be competing with each other. Feel free to disagree if you feel I'm wrong.
I don't ever think I've ever heard one of these organizations come out and say they did great and had an amazing turnout and made a great profit.
IPL has provided incredibly high quality content for non korean standards, it's truly a shame. This doesn't surprise me though, and Starcraft eSports is definitely getting smaller and is progressively starving.
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
That is the exact opposite of what they said on State of the Game, in every way. You must have miss the part where they were talking, or you are learning impaired. Or your trolling. Or all of those.
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
are you a complete idiot? the whole point they made was that sc2 isnt dying and people like you who cry its dying every 5 seconds are morons.
They are pretty dumb. But you know, Destiny fans are like that.
Regarding if its true or not should be pretty easy to find out since a prolonged absence of a response from IPL denying this basically will confirm it. If they haven't clarified this within the next days then it's prolly true.
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
are you a complete idiot? the whole point they made was that sc2 isnt dying and people like you who cry its dying every 5 seconds are morons.
They are pretty dumb. But you know, Destiny fans are like that.
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
are you a complete idiot? the whole point they made was that sc2 isnt dying and people like you who cry its dying every 5 seconds are morons.
They are pretty dumb. But you know, Destiny fans are like that.
But I hate Destiny...
You still said SC2 is dying. YOU ARE ON OF THEM!!!!!
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
are you a complete idiot? the whole point they made was that sc2 isnt dying and people like you who cry its dying every 5 seconds are morons.
They are pretty dumb. But you know, Destiny fans are like that.
it wasn't only Destiny fans that thought SC2 was dying you know...
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
are you a complete idiot? the whole point they made was that sc2 isnt dying and people like you who cry its dying every 5 seconds are morons.
They are pretty dumb. But you know, Destiny fans are like that.
it wasn't only Destiny fans that thought SC2 was dying you know...
Yes, it was only Destiny fans. They didn't come to the same conclusion that destiny did at the exact same time. LoL + Dota are just simply bigger, but that does not mean SC2 is dying. For simple comparison when there was ONLY MSL/OSL some finals vods listed on youtube only have 50k views. In SC2 GOMTV has 100k views on particular matches. IPL is simply eyes are bigger than their stomach type of situation they're not failing because SC2 is dying, but more likely because they did everything big which cost them more than throwing an MLG at a bullshit convention center or at their already paid for offices. Some entities in SC2 and gaming in general will eventually be cut out because there are simply too many entities now. Just like when teams die it isn't because SC2 is dying it is because they're hard to maintain especially if there are other better options for investors.
I hope its just postponed with all the preparations they had done with regards to qualifiers leading up to IPL 6.
Not surprising though if the new owners of IGN just don't want to invest all that money into the IPL which they are currently trying to sell off, but sucks nonetheless. You would think that all the preparations were complete and dealt with in advance and the event would have continued onward. I guess the IGN takeover and state of IPL has been unsure for long enough that the viability of IPL 6 was always in question, but to make this fact public would have shaken confidence in the IPL too much at a bad time.
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
are you a complete idiot? the whole point they made was that sc2 isnt dying and people like you who cry its dying every 5 seconds are morons.
They are pretty dumb. But you know, Destiny fans are like that.
it wasn't only Destiny fans that thought SC2 was dying you know...
It was mostly Destiny fans. If Destiny hadn't had that little rant almost nobody would have thought that SC2 was dying. Except for people who think that if something isn't the most popular then it's dead. LoL won't die if Dota 2 eventually gets bigger than LoL. Dota 2 won't die if LoL remains bigger than it forever, for example.
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
are you a complete idiot? the whole point they made was that sc2 isnt dying and people like you who cry its dying every 5 seconds are morons.
They are pretty dumb. But you know, Destiny fans are like that.
it wasn't only Destiny fans that thought SC2 was dying you know...
It was mostly Destiny fans. If Destiny hadn't had that little rant almost nobody would have thought that SC2 was dying. Except for people who think that if something isn't the most popular then it's dead. LoL won't die if Dota 2 eventually gets bigger than LoL. Dota 2 won't die if LoL remains bigger than it forever, for example.
That little rant was the most damaging thing a community member has ever done to this scene. I'm still annoyed at the community for being suckered in by it. The worst part was that almost everything Destiny was demanding had already been announced by Blizzard and was coming in HotS anyway. Completely counter-productive. So glad he has moved on to LoL now. That's what motivated him in the first place, he was annoyed that LoL players were getting more views and he was no longer eating from the biggest pie.
It's looking more and more like it's for sure. This is rough. It's a huge blow to eSports credibility, it's going to sour a lot of fans, and it hurts the American brand. Sundance definitely doing something to make up for it though, let's hope it assuages some things. And this sucks for all the players, too...it just sucks for everyone. Except IGN, I guess.
On March 01 2013 15:57 Wyrd wrote: It's looking more and more like it's for sure. This is rough. It's a huge blow to eSports credibility, it's going to sour a lot of fans, and it hurts the American brand. Sundance definitely doing something to make up for it though, let's hope it assuages some things. And this sucks for all the players, too...it just sucks for everyone. Except IGN, I guess.
It doesn't hurt esports credibility. IGN was far more than an esports company, in fact a very small part of it. You're making strong inaccurate conclusions.
On March 01 2013 15:57 Wyrd wrote: It's looking more and more like it's for sure. This is rough. It's a huge blow to eSports credibility, it's going to sour a lot of fans, and it hurts the American brand. Sundance definitely doing something to make up for it though, let's hope it assuages some things. And this sucks for all the players, too...it just sucks for everyone. Except IGN, I guess.
Its not really a blow to esports at all. People fail in business all the time. Anyway- IGN is in a tough spot right now and its not really IPL's fault. When the parent company is in trouble the do what is necessary to survive- like cutting off personal fun projects. THe only big deal about them shutting down is that they havent announced it and it will skrew over a lot of people that have reserved hotels and flights.
Not surprised. The down sizing at IGN will no doubt have effect on all it's products, with Sc2 being in it's crosshairs unfortunately. It's sad to see it go under when Hots has just been released.
Living in vegas, one big thing that concerns me is what the Cosmopolitan might/currently thinks.
They basically saw 2 sucessful events, looking to expand into 4 events every year, to now uncertainty and potential cancellation. It makes the whole scene look risky/uncertain if this turns out to be true.
On March 01 2013 16:06 Rowrin wrote: Living in vegas, one big thing that concerns me is what the Cosmopolitan might/currently thinks.
They basically saw 2 sucessful events, looking to expand into 4 events every year, to now uncertainty and potential cancellation. It makes the whole scene look risky/uncertain if this turns out to be true.
That point can be expressed about about fans as well...just a bad situation if this actually doesn't happen
On March 01 2013 16:06 Rowrin wrote: Living in vegas, one big thing that concerns me is what the Cosmopolitan might/currently thinks.
They basically saw 2 sucessful events, looking to expand into 4 events every year, to now uncertainty and potential cancellation. It makes the whole scene look risky/uncertain if this turns out to be true.
Well considering the current situation with IGN (note not IPL) they should be able to understand it. It's not only IPL that has complications atm but whole IGN.
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
are you a complete idiot? the whole point they made was that sc2 isnt dying and people like you who cry its dying every 5 seconds are morons.
They are pretty dumb. But you know, Destiny fans are like that.
it wasn't only Destiny fans that thought SC2 was dying you know...
Yes, it was only Destiny fans. They didn't come to the same conclusion that destiny did at the exact same time. LoL + Dota are just simply bigger, but that does not mean SC2 is dying. For simple comparison when there was ONLY MSL/OSL some finals vods listed on youtube only have 50k views. In SC2 GOMTV has 100k views on particular matches. IPL is simply eyes are bigger than their stomach type of situation they're not failing because SC2 is dying, but more likely because they did everything big which cost them more than throwing an MLG at a bullshit convention center or at their already paid for offices. Some entities in SC2 and gaming in general will eventually be cut out because there are simply too many entities now. Just like when teams die it isn't because SC2 is dying it is because they're hard to maintain especially if there are other better options for investors.
well, this topic might have boomed when Destiny started talking shit about SC2. But it eventually led to quite a lot of posts about stream number falling down across all stream, the much lower pages for tournament threads, then even grubby started a thread to talk about tournament fatigue. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=375594 Surely that means even Grubby is acknowledging there is/was a decreasing trend of viewership number.
Dying is just another word, I personally would say SC2 is losing out in the esport market.
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
are you a complete idiot? the whole point they made was that sc2 isnt dying and people like you who cry its dying every 5 seconds are morons.
They are pretty dumb. But you know, Destiny fans are like that.
it wasn't only Destiny fans that thought SC2 was dying you know...
Yes, it was only Destiny fans. They didn't come to the same conclusion that destiny did at the exact same time. LoL + Dota are just simply bigger, but that does not mean SC2 is dying. For simple comparison when there was ONLY MSL/OSL some finals vods listed on youtube only have 50k views. In SC2 GOMTV has 100k views on particular matches. IPL is simply eyes are bigger than their stomach type of situation they're not failing because SC2 is dying, but more likely because they did everything big which cost them more than throwing an MLG at a bullshit convention center or at their already paid for offices. Some entities in SC2 and gaming in general will eventually be cut out because there are simply too many entities now. Just like when teams die it isn't because SC2 is dying it is because they're hard to maintain especially if there are other better options for investors.
well, this topic might have boomed when Destiny started talking shit about SC2. But it eventually led to quite a lot of posts about stream number falling down across all stream, the much lower pages for tournament threads, then even grubby started a thread to talk about tournament fatigue. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=375594 Surely that means even Grubby is acknowledging there is/was a decreasing trend of viewership number.
Dying is just another word, I personally would say SC2 is losing out in the esport market.
On March 01 2013 10:58 Fionn wrote:You can have whatever opinion you want on Scoots, but he's a reliable source with lots of connections in e-sports. He called the Hyun to Quantic merger news a few days before it was announced, so of course he has credibility.
My "opinion" is that he's been guessing wildly on Twitter the last few days so I wouldn't use him as a credible source for this affair. Scoots has been posting "BREAKING" news about buyers of IPL how many times now? 4? I don't see why we would trust him on this either. Plus it's just RUMORS.
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
are you a complete idiot? the whole point they made was that sc2 isnt dying and people like you who cry its dying every 5 seconds are morons.
They are pretty dumb. But you know, Destiny fans are like that.
it wasn't only Destiny fans that thought SC2 was dying you know...
Yes, it was only Destiny fans. They didn't come to the same conclusion that destiny did at the exact same time. LoL + Dota are just simply bigger, but that does not mean SC2 is dying. For simple comparison when there was ONLY MSL/OSL some finals vods listed on youtube only have 50k views. In SC2 GOMTV has 100k views on particular matches. IPL is simply eyes are bigger than their stomach type of situation they're not failing because SC2 is dying, but more likely because they did everything big which cost them more than throwing an MLG at a bullshit convention center or at their already paid for offices. Some entities in SC2 and gaming in general will eventually be cut out because there are simply too many entities now. Just like when teams die it isn't because SC2 is dying it is because they're hard to maintain especially if there are other better options for investors.
well, this topic might have boomed when Destiny started talking shit about SC2. But it eventually led to quite a lot of posts about stream number falling down across all stream, the much lower pages for tournament threads, then even grubby started a thread to talk about tournament fatigue. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=375594 Surely that means even Grubby is acknowledging there is/was a decreasing trend of viewership number.
Dying is just another word, I personally would say SC2 is losing out in the esport market.
And this was already answered by many. The drop in viewers is because there is so much SC2 content that the numbers have just been spread out so much, not that viewers are leaving SC2 altogether. I think even DJwheat said this (TWITCH EMPLOYEE).
On March 01 2013 10:58 Fionn wrote:You can have whatever opinion you want on Scoots, but he's a reliable source with lots of connections in e-sports. He called the Hyun to Quantic merger news a few days before it was announced, so of course he has credibility.
My "opinion" is that he's been guessing wildly on Twitter the last few days so I wouldn't use him as a credible source for this affair. Scoots has been posting "BREAKING" news about buyers of IPL how many times now? 4? I don't see why we would trust him on this either. Plus it's just RUMORS.
if you can't see the difference between his previous tweets and this one, i dont know what to say. not to mention we have heard Kennigit, incontrol, JP and moonglade all say they've heard it too
On March 01 2013 10:58 Fionn wrote:You can have whatever opinion you want on Scoots, but he's a reliable source with lots of connections in e-sports. He called the Hyun to Quantic merger news a few days before it was announced, so of course he has credibility.
My "opinion" is that he's been guessing wildly on Twitter the last few days so I wouldn't use him as a credible source for this affair. Scoots has been posting "BREAKING" news about buyers of IPL how many times now? 4? I don't see why we would trust him on this either. Plus it's just RUMORS.
if you can't see the difference between his previous tweets and this one, i dont know what to say. not to mention we have heard Kennigit, incontrol, JP and moonglade all say they've heard it too
Then use them as a freaking source in the OP. Not this sensational journalist that is trying to be funny but is just craving for attention.
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
are you a complete idiot? the whole point they made was that sc2 isnt dying and people like you who cry its dying every 5 seconds are morons.
They are pretty dumb. But you know, Destiny fans are like that.
it wasn't only Destiny fans that thought SC2 was dying you know...
It was mostly Destiny fans. If Destiny hadn't had that little rant almost nobody would have thought that SC2 was dying. Except for people who think that if something isn't the most popular then it's dead. LoL won't die if Dota 2 eventually gets bigger than LoL. Dota 2 won't die if LoL remains bigger than it forever, for example.
What? People have been saying SC2 has been dying long before Destiny said anything. Hell, you can find people saying it when SC2 peaked in popularity.
On March 01 2013 17:12 jalstar wrote: why would anyone buy ipl, like what are their assets?
i'm assuming buying ipl means you also get their debts? it's been a while since i took accounting feel free to correct me.
A person or corporation can purchase all the assets, but non of the debts. Basically leaving the debt loaded shell corporation behind, the new corporation carries the name, assets, trademarks etc forward.
On March 01 2013 10:58 Fionn wrote:You can have whatever opinion you want on Scoots, but he's a reliable source with lots of connections in e-sports. He called the Hyun to Quantic merger news a few days before it was announced, so of course he has credibility.
My "opinion" is that he's been guessing wildly on Twitter the last few days so I wouldn't use him as a credible source for this affair. Scoots has been posting "BREAKING" news about buyers of IPL how many times now? 4? I don't see why we would trust him on this either. Plus it's just RUMORS.
if you can't see the difference between his previous tweets and this one, i dont know what to say. not to mention we have heard Kennigit, incontrol, JP and moonglade all say they've heard it too
Then use them as a freaking source in the OP. Not this sensational journalist that is trying to be funny but is just craving for attention.
scoots isnt a journalist and isnt claiming to be one. and he tweeted this before anyone else saying it.
On March 01 2013 17:12 jalstar wrote: why would anyone buy ipl, like what are their assets?
i'm assuming buying ipl means you also get their debts? it's been a while since i took accounting feel free to correct me.
A person or corporation can purchase all the assets, but non of the debts. Basically leaving the debt loaded shell corporation behind, the new corporation carries the name, assets, trademarks etc forward.
this runs the risk of nudging the thread completely off tangent, but technically at the negotiation table, the buyer also has the option to assume all of a purchased corporation's debts, making a merger or acquisition seem like a much better deal for the selling party. nobody knows the exact terms of the negotiations for IGN and whatever they chose to do with IPL; however, as both j2 global and News Corp are publicly traded companies, it shouldn't be too difficult to find details of most of their transactions.
nobody knows the exact terms of the negotiations for IGN and whatever they chose to do with IPL
No one knows the specifics, but Polygon has quoted IGN has saying: Actively engaged with parties interested in acquiring IPL. IGN's role going forward will be to broadcast and cover a variety of eSports events
On March 01 2013 18:22 tabeatz wrote: I was so excited to finally go to an esports event and it's right at the end of my spring break. I'll be so sad if this is true.
I rarely listen to the BS that people gossip about, but Scoots has been a reliable source for long enough that I'd say he's right on track if this is really a thing.
There are two pretty good reasons for them to postpone it. 1) So that they can use their Capcom fighting game titles. IPL6 was going to clash with a fighting game event (afaik) and you know how that community is. If you clash with one of their events they will boycott you for the rest of time. 2) So that they can run their main SC2 tournament on Hots. Right now there is no way for them to change to hots without getting a lot of shit. But if the event is postponed by a month or so, they pretty much have to switch it to Hots.
On March 01 2013 20:36 sashkata wrote: There are two pretty good reasons for them to postpone it. 1) So that they can use their Capcom fighting game titles. IPL6 was going to clash with a fighting game event (afaik) and you know how that community is. If you clash with one of their events they will boycott you for the rest of time. 2) So that they can run their main SC2 tournament on Hots. Right now there is no way for them to change to hots without getting a lot of shit. But if the event is postponed by a month or so, they pretty much have to switch it to Hots.
Just a theory.
There is no way they would postpone it on such short notice, because of stuff like this.
I think it's more likely that they didn't find a buyer for IPL and are shutting the whole thing down.
On March 01 2013 20:36 sashkata wrote: There are two pretty good reasons for them to postpone it. 1) So that they can use their Capcom fighting game titles. IPL6 was going to clash with a fighting game event (afaik) and you know how that community is. If you clash with one of their events they will boycott you for the rest of time. 2) So that they can run their main SC2 tournament on Hots. Right now there is no way for them to change to hots without getting a lot of shit. But if the event is postponed by a month or so, they pretty much have to switch it to Hots.
Just a theory.
There is no way they would postpone it on such short notice, because of stuff like this.
I think it's more likely that they didn't find a buyer for IPL and are shutting the whole thing down.
On March 01 2013 13:21 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. State of the Game just said that with the successful WOL launch, people might have over invested, such as IPL. Plus eSports is very strong now, especially with DOTA and LoL.
Interestingly enough, IPL5 was profitable... but probably the only profitable event.
So does this mean that IPL's partnership with GOM is over? I think the termination costs with GOM would be pretty huge as well..
are you a complete idiot? the whole point they made was that sc2 isnt dying and people like you who cry its dying every 5 seconds are morons.
They are pretty dumb. But you know, Destiny fans are like that.
it wasn't only Destiny fans that thought SC2 was dying you know...
It was mostly Destiny fans. If Destiny hadn't had that little rant almost nobody would have thought that SC2 was dying. Except for people who think that if something isn't the most popular then it's dead. LoL won't die if Dota 2 eventually gets bigger than LoL. Dota 2 won't die if LoL remains bigger than it forever, for example.
That little rant was the most damaging thing a community member has ever done to this scene. I'm still annoyed at the community for being suckered in by it. The worst part was that almost everything Destiny was demanding had already been announced by Blizzard and was coming in HotS anyway. Completely counter-productive. So glad he has moved on to LoL now. That's what motivated him in the first place, he was annoyed that LoL players were getting more views and he was no longer eating from the biggest pie.
I disagree. Even as someone who doesn't really like Destiny (only because he says offensive things!), all the points he brought up were good.
Even if Blizzard already intended to do all the things in HotS (which is true because they released the stuff fairly early after the Destiny thread, which meant they worked on it long before he made that thread), it's good because what if they didn't?
It's the "do you really want chat channels?" thing all over again. (Or the Real ID fiasco which did require a response from Mike Morhaime himself.) You need to complain hard at Blizzard or else they think "oh well, no one will care about <insert feature here>".
[b]Though, negativity does have certain affects on the game (like people may have probably left SC2 for other games because of the negativity bandwagon). And I definitely do agree on that too. (I come from another set of forums that does episode reviews for a certain series. And I remember a well established fan of the series ranting or hating on something after many liked the episode, then everyone just followed suit >.>.)
On the up side, it may push Blizzard to work harder at fixing things (though I honestly don't know how it works at Blizzard... I'm sure Dustin Browder always try his hardest but the thing that matters the most is how much resources the highest ups at Blizzard gives them).
So overall, you can complain or give feedback to Blizzard but definitely not overdo the negativity (as it can leave an impression to the public that can cause players to leave or not join in on the game).
On March 01 2013 20:36 sashkata wrote: There are two pretty good reasons for them to postpone it. 1) So that they can use their Capcom fighting game titles. IPL6 was going to clash with a fighting game event (afaik) and you know how that community is. If you clash with one of their events they will boycott you for the rest of time. 2) So that they can run their main SC2 tournament on Hots. Right now there is no way for them to change to hots without getting a lot of shit. But if the event is postponed by a month or so, they pretty much have to switch it to Hots.
Just a theory.
There is no way they would postpone it on such short notice, because of stuff like this.
I think it's more likely that they didn't find a buyer for IPL and are shutting the whole thing down.
So to those "people" who bashed SirScoots as trolling look a bit silly now huh
Very sad, that it got to this stage and a bit angry that it has taken this long to pull the plug on it. We knew about the takeover on then turn of the year, and people were always asking (especially in the thread on TL, me being one of them) about IPL6 and whether it will be going ahead. Hope no one other than IPL will lose money on this, and well, i guess everyone can focus on HOTS games now and don't need to play WOL anymore (minus SPL players and RorO and Symbol)
I don't see it as very different from what scoots said, except that gamespot/slasher are willing to draw a more confident conclusion than scoots, who preferred to hedge a little more.
but given the evidence people are presenting, you couldn't blame fans for deducing that it's essentially dead
werent ipl employes laughing at ppl who were worried about ipl? Maybe you should have been a bit more honest about the situation when people spent money on travelling to your event.
Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I wonder if Blizzard will try to save it Injecting several millions into IPL6 to give it one last harrah will make Blizzard a hero, even if it's a financial loss.
If they don't, IPL6's demise might tarnish the launch of HotS indirectly...
The claims of sponsors getting their promotional items returned back and OGN cancelling their LoL qualifiers for IPL seem to be solid evidence of a cancellation, unfortunately.
I hope this all just means a cancellation for this one event and that there would still be future events.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
That's what uninformed kids say on reddit, come on, are you saying people are just making shit up on the internet? That never happens!
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
Not the biggest surprise ever, since just a week ago people were talking about rumours about how IGN were looking to sell off the IPL franchise. If this is the end of IPL it'll be a big shame, after IPL5 they'd positioned themselves as the number one premier US tournament in my eyes, as well as a lot of other people. Hopefully something can be done.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
I'm sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about. People sell things that make a profit ALL THE TIME. Literally.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
I'm sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about. People sell things that make a profit ALL THE TIME. Literally.
And what about the tiny viewer numbers? Just gonna ignore that part?
people need to remember that this isn't IGN just deciding out of nowhere to kill their own brand, it was the recent purchaser Ziff Davis that made the cuts.
If it´s really cancelled so close before the event takes place, that would be a huge disappointment. Maybe if we had any insight in the calculations we would be able to understand it, but I fear that there´s various reasons involved. IGN/IPL claimed that IPL5 was "...the most successful event in North American eSports history!" (excerpt taken from IPL´s front page) and if there aren´t some really SERIOUS issues, I don´t get this at all. The IPL brand would basically be dead after such a move.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
so the source of IPL bleeding money is... you.
No, the source is common sense.
even if it's likely that they are in the red, it's not actually fact because you say so, that's my point
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
so the source of IPL bleeding money is... you.
No, the source is common sense.
You really should be a business advisor, your common sense would be very helpful to all kinds of people who do these complicated accounting things while they could just ask you.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, (there were like 5 posters that were clearly ganging up on me) but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
so the source of IPL bleeding money is... you.
State of the Game also backed that up as well. From reports, only the last IPL was profitable and the time in between each event likely wasn’t pulling in enough money. Running that damn stream 24/7 reruns was a terrible idea, IMO.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
so the source of IPL bleeding money is... you.
State of the Game also backed that up as well. From reports, only the last IPL was profitable and the time in between each event likely wasn’t pulling in enough money. Running that damn stream 24/7 reruns was a terrible idea, IMO.
no one makes money in esports, it's been said over and over, but when you claim they are bleeding money you are also saying they're losing more than the rest
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Yes, NASL (I love thePulse, awesome show) should see that as an opportunity. MLG already knows all about this calculation stuff, that´s why they didn´t hire foreign casters for the next event. They also needed to cut down on expenses. It´s perfectly fine, cancelling an event though, hurts everyone involved.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
so the source of IPL bleeding money is... you.
State of the Game also backed that up as well. From reports, only the last IPL was profitable and the time in between each event likely wasn’t pulling in enough money. Running that damn stream 24/7 reruns was a terrible idea, IMO.
no one makes money in esports, it's been said over and over, but when you claim they are bleeding money you are also saying they're losing more than the rest
I guess GOM robbed a bank then to affort their new studio.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
so the source of IPL bleeding money is... you.
State of the Game also backed that up as well. From reports, only the last IPL was profitable and the time in between each event likely wasn’t pulling in enough money. Running that damn stream 24/7 reruns was a terrible idea, IMO.
no one makes money in esports, it's been said over and over, but when you claim they are bleeding money you are also saying they're losing more than the rest
I guess GOM robbed a bank then to affort their new studio.
just like ipl robbed a bank to afford cosmopolitan ;P
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
so the source of IPL bleeding money is... you.
State of the Game also backed that up as well. From reports, only the last IPL was profitable and the time in between each event likely wasn’t pulling in enough money. Running that damn stream 24/7 reruns was a terrible idea, IMO.
no one makes money in esports, it's been said over and over, but when you claim they are bleeding money you are also saying they're losing more than the rest
It's more that IGN got sold and they are scaling back, which means IPL is as well until they get a new buyer. IGN was owned by News Corp and without that backing, IPL likely lack the liquid cash to run large events. It is the way of he world.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
This is a big blow to the scene. IPL were major players in the Foreign Tournaments scene. Them going down represents a massive contraction of the SC2 scene. Less prize money, less exposure for players and sponsors, less chance for fans to pay money to supporting a big SC2 tournament, less discussion and hype about it on places like TL. IPL5 seemed like such an extravaganza with the GSL plus World vs Korean teams etc. And now cancelled?
I hope that the new owners of IGN will not the end the IPL tournaments entirely and that this cancellation will just be for now while they reassess the company direction.
A lot of people are potentially gonna be out of pocket with flights/accommodation/vacation booked all now wasted. Bad news all around.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
so the source of IPL bleeding money is... you.
State of the Game also backed that up as well. From reports, only the last IPL was profitable and the time in between each event likely wasn’t pulling in enough money. Running that damn stream 24/7 reruns was a terrible idea, IMO.
no one makes money in esports, it's been said over and over, but when you claim they are bleeding money you are also saying they're losing more than the rest
It's more that IGN got sold and they are scaling back, which means IPL is as well until they get a new buyer. IGN was owned by News Corp and without that backing, IPL likely lack the liquid cash to run large events. It is the way of he world.
Then I guess they have already come to the conclusion that they are going to lose money with IPL 6 or they´ve overspend again. Otherwise it wouldn´t make much sense, not so close to the actual event. And that again would be pretty stupid, because IPL should have had a good amount of experience how much money they need and if they can justify it. I would be very interested how this pans out and why it was cancelled. The new buyer would be an easy target, but not informing the people involved or the community about it would hurt the IPL brand a lot if this is not communicated well. They need to provide an answer fast.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
would be epic if ipl could find a last minute saviour so the tourney can still take place, let blizzard themself step in and make the tournament hots, i want some good news or a hug please
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
IPL7? You mean IPL6. If IPL6 is cancelled, the next event from IPL would still be IPL6. Or was that a typing mistake?
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
The problem with cancelling an event like this relatively close to its actual starting date is that it screws over a lot of people that had booked flights and/or hotels already. Such a move will severely damage the image of the IPL brand and will make finding a good buyer for the brand / organisation a lot harder. If you screw over one of your main sources of income (people visiting the venue during the event), what's that going to do for your profitability in the future?
On March 01 2013 23:11 Jeffhesser wrote: Why does news like this choose to 'break' in the middle of the night when no one will be around to officially comment on it for 10-12 hours????
On March 01 2013 22:54 ODKStevez wrote: The fact that IPL did not comment instead of saying "No there will be a tournament" is what scares me.
I agree. You'd think that IPL/ IGN would comment immediately and quell the rumors and discussions and controversy; I don't really see this as good publicity for them.
Regardless, I hope we get an official announcement from them soon!
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
The problem with cancelling an event like this relatively close to its actual starting date is that it screws over a lot of people that had booked flights and/or hotels already. Such a move will severely damage the image of the IPL brand and will make finding a good buyer for the brand / organisation a lot harder. If you screw over one of your main sources of income (people visiting the venue during the event), what's that going to do for your profitability in the future?
Yeah, I think they are caught between a rock and a hard place. They likely had this event set up before the sale of IGN and once that happened, it cause them to have to look for other money to fund the event. They likely had money invested in the venue, hotels and airfare, so they are trying to keep it going. At times like these, there are no good choices. So they are trying to pick the best, bad choice.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
IPL7? You mean IPL6. If IPL6 is cancelled, the next event from IPL would still be IPL6. Or was that a typing mistake?
I mean they aren't going to bet the farm on IPL6 and hope that the profits from that will carry them all the way to IPL7.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
IPL7? You mean IPL6. If IPL6 is cancelled, the next event from IPL would still be IPL6. Or was that a typing mistake?
I mean they aren't going to bet the farm on IPL6 and hope that the profits from that will carry them all the way to IPL7.
IPL was justified because it was basically written off as a marketing expense. There were hopes that it could become profitable, but in the meantime, it was considered nothing more than a marketing expense by IGN. Now that IGN is sold/being sold/whatever, the new company probably does not want that extra marketing expense regardless if it is or is not creating traffic to their websites.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
What's so obnoxious about you is that your reasoning is so speculative, and now you think this news has confirmed that reasoning. However as an outsider you don't have enough information to know the reason for a cancellation. For example given that IPL5 was profitable its plausible that Ziff still expected IPL6 to be profitable. We don't know either way. For you to deduce from a sale that the unit did not have near-future profitability potential is to throw a guess out. Business is more complex than your simplistic inference makes it out to be.
Put simply, sound logical reasoning dictates that you could be right but also could be wrong.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
IPL also had LoL and Shootmania, the former of which is obviously a big deal in eSports.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
so the source of IPL bleeding money is... you.
State of the Game also backed that up as well. From reports, only the last IPL was profitable and the time in between each event likely wasn’t pulling in enough money. Running that damn stream 24/7 reruns was a terrible idea, IMO.
no one makes money in esports, it's been said over and over, but when you claim they are bleeding money you are also saying they're losing more than the rest
It's more that IGN got sold and they are scaling back, which means IPL is as well until they get a new buyer. IGN was owned by News Corp and without that backing, IPL likely lack the liquid cash to run large events. It is the way of he world.
I doubt that News Corp invested that much into IGN. It's been pretty common knowledge that News Corp's been looking to sell IGN for years now. You don't heavily invest in something that you're looking to sell. The IPL cancellation is the result of a refocusing of IGN's priorities by ZD, not the pulling of financial backing for IGN. In fact, I'd wager that ZD will probably pump more money into IGN over the next couple years than Newscorp ever really wanted to do.
It's just that, unfortunately, it seems that one way ZD is going to justify that investment is by shuttering projects and sites they feel are nonessential to IGN's success, including GameSpy, 1UP and IPL.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
You should go to LoL subreddit and make a post about how LoL is dying because it's not profitable for IGN.
It's like the Olympic games weren't happening and people were shouting "Table tennis is dying!!!!" No, actually no. It's the whole thing that's not happening. IPL6 as a whole. Not just SC2.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
That's like saying when a restaurant closes it's because eating is dying... WTF??!
Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Their new studio in a more expensive part of Seoul costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around.
On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around.
I also like to add that GOM ran Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and A.V.A. leagues alongside their BW leagues back in the day. GOMtv running multiple leagues for multiple games is hardly unusual.
On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around.
I also like to add that GOM ran Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and A.V.A. leagues alongside their BW leagues back in the day. GOMtv running multiple leagues for multiple games is hardly unusual.
3 years of running only SC2 tournaments, and now that viewer numbers are way down across the board, they start to expand their tournament roster. Yep, not unusual.
On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around.
I also like to add that GOM ran Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and A.V.A. leagues alongside their BW leagues back in the day. GOMtv running multiple leagues for multiple games is hardly unusual.
3 years of running only SC2 tournaments, and now that viewer numbers are way down across the board, they start to expand their tournament roster. Yep, not unusual.
You're extrapolating and assuming too much out of GOM's decisions.
On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around.
I also like to add that GOM ran Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and A.V.A. leagues alongside their BW leagues back in the day. GOMtv running multiple leagues for multiple games is hardly unusual.
3 years of running only SC2 tournaments, and now that viewer numbers are way down across the board, they start to expand their tournament roster. Yep, not unusual.
Where exactly are you getting their viewership numbers from?
Also how do you explain their new expensive studio with that logic?
it's that time of the week again when you read a recent thread, see a username, and you already know "oh yeah it's THAT guy again" . you know when suddenly hundreds of cars are approaching you on the road, chances are YOU are the wrong-way driver, and not all the other ones @_@
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2.
As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today.
Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
It was so obvious that this was going to happen, the same thing is going to NASL too sooner or later.
50k people on a twitch stream and 1000 people attending live is not nearly enough to support this kind of event. The sad thing is that once again some people are screwed who spent money on esport.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
IPL also had LoL and Shootmania, the former of which is obviously a big deal in eSports.
And IPL started off with only SC2. Can you imagine what would happen if IPL simply dropped SC2 but continued to produce content for LoL? They would get absolutely railed by the community. I just can't see them dropping only SC2 no matter what.
On March 02 2013 00:02 marcesr wrote: It was so obvious that this was going to happen, the same thing is going to NASL too sooner or later.
50k people on a twitch stream and 1000 people attending live is not nearly enough to support this kind of event. The sad thing is that once again some people are screwed who spent money on esport.
There was also a LoL stream and audience that seemed to have healthier numbers. There are a lot more factors at work here than just the SC2 numbers.
Having a huge tournament weeks after an anticipated expansion is released, but not having it change to the new game? Hard to really draw much from that, even if there is something to be drawn. That couldn't be worse timing if they tried to make it so. It's hard for others to run that bad.
On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around.
I also like to add that GOM ran Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and A.V.A. leagues alongside their BW leagues back in the day. GOMtv running multiple leagues for multiple games is hardly unusual.
3 years of running only SC2 tournaments, and now that viewer numbers are way down across the board, they start to expand their tournament roster. Yep, not unusual.
Where exactly are you getting their viewership numbers from?
Also how do you explain their new expensive studio with that logic?
I'm getting my viewer numbers from Twitch.tv, and the general amount of activity forums see relating to SC2 events.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
IPL also had LoL and Shootmania, the former of which is obviously a big deal in eSports.
And IPL started off with only SC2. Can you imagine what would happen if IPL simply dropped SC2 but continued to produce content for LoL? They would get absolutely railed by the community. I just can't see them dropping only SC2 no matter what.
I doubt a company would give a damn about a community they're no longer a part of, that's not how business works. The SC2 community might be upset but why would IPL care? The LoL community won't give a damn either.
On March 01 2013 22:16 Derez wrote: Would have been a disaster in viewership numbers anyway with HotS out. That said, cancelling a tournament ruins IPL's name and is going to make it much harder to sell as a recognized 'brand'.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
IPL also had LoL and Shootmania, the former of which is obviously a big deal in eSports.
And IPL started off with only SC2. Can you imagine what would happen if IPL simply dropped SC2 but continued to produce content for LoL? They would get absolutely railed by the community. I just can't see them dropping only SC2 no matter what.
But keep in mind that IPL was also sustained by LoL's numbers as well as SC2's numbers. One would think that IPL wasn't in that bad of a position with LoL also pulling in big stream numbers, bigger than SC2's numbers at least.
I don't think anyone wanted to buy it regardless. I mean, even if you were interested in investing in an esports tournament like IPL, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy one that is bleeding money, plus, why not just make your own?
Where did you read that IPL was bleeding money?
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2.
As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today.
Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Their new studio in a more expensive part of Seoul costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around.
IPL expanded while their business was going downhill. Every business must expand their portfolio to grow. But expansion / investment has no correlation to how well the business is currently doing.
On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around.
I also like to add that GOM ran Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and A.V.A. leagues alongside their BW leagues back in the day. GOMtv running multiple leagues for multiple games is hardly unusual.
3 years of running only SC2 tournaments, and now that viewer numbers are way down across the board, they start to expand their tournament roster. Yep, not unusual.
Where exactly are you getting their viewership numbers from?
Also how do you explain their new expensive studio with that logic?
I'm getting my viewer numbers from Twitch.tv, and the general amount of activity forums see relating to SC2 events.
GOM doesn't receive all their viewers on Twitch. They got a GOM streamer on their website. I personally watch there. They have subscriptions too. They have VODs for people who can't catch the games live. So your reliable viewer numbers are not exactly reliable. Activity on forums... lol
On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around.
I also like to add that GOM ran Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and A.V.A. leagues alongside their BW leagues back in the day. GOMtv running multiple leagues for multiple games is hardly unusual.
3 years of running only SC2 tournaments, and now that viewer numbers are way down across the board, they start to expand their tournament roster. Yep, not unusual.
Where exactly are you getting their viewership numbers from?
Also how do you explain their new expensive studio with that logic?
I'm getting my viewer numbers from Twitch.tv, and the general amount of activity forums see relating to SC2 events.
GOM doesn't receive all their viewers on Twitch. They got a GOM streamer on their website. I personally watch there. They have subscriptions too. They have VODs for people who can't catch the games live. So your reliable viewer numbers are not exactly reliable. Activity on forums... lol
They have, however, recently starting streaming some of their events on Twitch, and the numbers are very low. I'm sure there are plenty more people whom view all the content by vods, which of course they receive by buying tickets. So these people won't show up during the live streams on Twitch, but my suspicion still stands that they're shedding numbers just as badly as all the other SC2 tournaments. Though, I should mention that Dreamhack apparently has had growth in numbers, so there is that.
On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around.
I also like to add that GOM ran Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and A.V.A. leagues alongside their BW leagues back in the day. GOMtv running multiple leagues for multiple games is hardly unusual.
3 years of running only SC2 tournaments, and now that viewer numbers are way down across the board, they start to expand their tournament roster. Yep, not unusual.
Where exactly are you getting their viewership numbers from?
Also how do you explain their new expensive studio with that logic?
I'm getting my viewer numbers from Twitch.tv, and the general amount of activity forums see relating to SC2 events.
Those are terrible metrics to gauge SC2 by and doing is incredibly naïve. That is like gauging the popularity of a TV show by the activity on forums and number of views on their youtube page. I watch SC2 on my TV and don’t post in live update threads often. You can’t just taking the limited about of front facing information available and then make a grand statement like SC2 is dying. And if you do, be prepared to be shouted down by people who know better.
But I have wasted enough time on the forums this morning. I have appeals that must be dismissed and motions for sanctions to draft.
MarsTV contacted IPL immediately as its Chinese partner and host of IPL China regional events. After a week of internal discussion, IPL informed us that unless it's officially acquired by any organization or individual, IGN Proleague will be come history. Which means IPL6, scheduled to take place in Las Vegas, March 28th to 31th, will be postponed indefinitely.
The IPL6 Starcraft II Chinese Regional results will remain effective, but the League of Legends regional will be postponed indefinitely, we are deeply sorry about this development.
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2.
As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today.
Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear.
Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true.
On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around.
I also like to add that GOM ran Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and A.V.A. leagues alongside their BW leagues back in the day. GOMtv running multiple leagues for multiple games is hardly unusual.
3 years of running only SC2 tournaments, and now that viewer numbers are way down across the board, they start to expand their tournament roster. Yep, not unusual.
Where exactly are you getting their viewership numbers from?
Also how do you explain their new expensive studio with that logic?
I'm getting my viewer numbers from Twitch.tv, and the general amount of activity forums see relating to SC2 events.
Those are terrible metrics to gauge SC2 by and doing is incredibly naïve. That is like gauging the popularity of a TV show by the activity on forums and number of views on their youtube page. I watch SC2 on my TV and don’t post in live update threads often. You can’t just taking the limited about of front facing information available and then make a grand statement like SC2 is dying. And if you do, be prepared to be shouted down by people who know better.
But I have wasted enough time on the forums this morning. I have appeals that must be dismissed and motions for sanctions to draft.
Ok and I'm also just factoring in, you know, the closure of one of SC2's largest tournaments and all the player retirements/team closures or mergers that have happened recently.......
MarsTV contacted IPL immediately as its Chinese partner and host of IPL China regional events. After a week of internal discussion, IPL informed us that unless it's officially acquired by any organization or individual, IGN Proleague will be come history. Which means IPL6, scheduled to take place in Las Vegas, March 28th to 31th, will be postponed indefinitely.
The IPL6 Starcraft II Chinese Regional results will remain effective, but the League of Legends regional will be postponed indefinitely, we are deeply sorry about this development.
Not surprising considering that OGN also cancelled their equivalent IPL LoL qualifiers.
My brain. The viewer numbers for IPL sc2 are lower than a lot of player streams themselves (note, I'm not talking about the finals that take place in Las Vegas, just the regular online stream). There is just no way they're recouping costs with such a small amount of viewers.... Then, of course, there is the common sense argument, who is going to sell something that makes them profit? IPL is not going to come out and straight up say, "hey we're a giant money pit!!!!". Especially when they're trying to sell it off.
On a side note, I'm not getting pulled into this argument again, sorry. If you can't see the obvious....
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2.
As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today.
Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear.
Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true.
So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we?
They also overspent on a couple of events, including hiring a pretty high end production crew for a couple of events. Unlike some of the other leagues which have had a slow ramp up, IPL threw down pretty hard, making deal with GOM and running their events in Vegas.
Its is sad, but this was always going to happen to one of the major leagues in SC2. Someone was always going to bite off more they can could chew and be forced to get smaller or go under. Personally, I am happy that MLG and NASL are the ones that made it, because I have always enjoyed their stuff more. NASL looks like the league that could become the NA GSL if they get large enough to get a studio to run games and have an audience.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2.
As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today.
Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear.
Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true.
So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we?
It is a perfect counter argument to “People are negative about SC2, so there must be a reason they are like that. And that reason is the game is bad and it is dying.” Once again, your proof for SC2 is dying is that people are negative about it on internet forums and the twitch numbers are sometimes lower than LoL.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the guys that were relentlessly attacking me on a personal level in the other IPL-doom-and-gloom thread? Singing a different tune now, eh?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2.
As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today.
Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear.
Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true.
So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we?
It is a perfect counter argument to “People are negative about SC2, so there must be a reason they are like that. And that reason is the game is bad and it is dying.” Once again, your proof for SC2 is dying is that people are negative about it on internet forums and the twitch numbers are sometimes lower than LoL.
Uhh no, Twitch numbers have been sinking steadily for SC2. That's my point. And saying they're "sometimes" lower than LoL is a pretty big stretch, try something along the lines of, sometimes during major finals SC2 gets close to LoL's average viewer numbers.
For instance, LoL is at 116k viewers right now, and WoL is at 5.8k. HoTS is at 3.4k, figured I should mention that before someone goes crazy on me
I hope there will be a happy ending for IGL/IPL somehow.
Sucks that there is this much uncertainty so close to the event. Hopefully, not too many live visitors will get screwed on their booked flights and hotel stays.
This makes me sad, IPL put up a lot of good jobs, ran incredibly well run tournaments, and never had any bullshit attached to it. I would argue that IPL is the best run league in NA, and maybe even including Europe.
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2.
As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today.
Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear.
Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true.
So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we?
It is a perfect counter argument to “People are negative about SC2, so there must be a reason they are like that. And that reason is the game is bad and it is dying.” Once again, your proof for SC2 is dying is that people are negative about it on internet forums and the twitch numbers are sometimes lower than LoL.
Uhh no, Twitch numbers have been sinking steadily for SC2. That's my point. And saying they're "sometimes" lower than LoL is a pretty big stretch, try something along the lines of, sometimes during major finals SC2 gets close to LoL's average viewer numbers.
For instance, LoL is at 116k viewers right now, and WoL is at 5.8k.
Ok, see this is why you will never win this argument, because your evidence sucks and your wrong. Right now, the LCS is live, which the LoL main competitive league run by Riot, which always has around 100K viewers. Now there is nothing on for SC2 and all the most popular streamers aren’t on or and there is no major event right now. Stop using shitty information to make your point and then claiming that other times your information is fine when people point out that it is shitty. Blizzard’s Vengeance stream had 40K viewers to watch a show match and a trailer.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2.
As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today.
Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear.
Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true.
So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we?
It is a perfect counter argument to “People are negative about SC2, so there must be a reason they are like that. And that reason is the game is bad and it is dying.” Once again, your proof for SC2 is dying is that people are negative about it on internet forums and the twitch numbers are sometimes lower than LoL.
Uhh no, Twitch numbers have been sinking steadily for SC2. That's my point. And saying they're "sometimes" lower than LoL is a pretty big stretch, try something along the lines of, sometimes during major finals SC2 gets close to LoL's average viewer numbers.
For instance, LoL is at 116k viewers right now, and WoL is at 5.8k.
Ok, see this is why you will never win this argument, because your evidence sucks and your wrong. Right now, the LCS is live, which the LoL main competitive league run by Riot, which always has around 100K viewers. Now there is nothing on for SC2 and all the most popular streamers aren’t on or and there is no major event right now. Stop using shitty information to make your point and then claiming that other times your information is fine when people point out that it is shitty. Blizzard’s Vengeance stream had 40K viewers to watch a show match and a trailer.
Even without the LCS, there are always at least 50k viewers or more. TSM members get 25k+ viewers on a daily basis. SC2 seems to fit around 8k-15k on average. And no I'm not "wrong", go look for yourself instead of mindlessly attacking me for no apparent reason.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2.
As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today.
Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear.
Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true.
So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we?
It is a perfect counter argument to “People are negative about SC2, so there must be a reason they are like that. And that reason is the game is bad and it is dying.” Once again, your proof for SC2 is dying is that people are negative about it on internet forums and the twitch numbers are sometimes lower than LoL.
Uhh no, Twitch numbers have been sinking steadily for SC2. That's my point. And saying they're "sometimes" lower than LoL is a pretty big stretch, try something along the lines of, sometimes during major finals SC2 gets close to LoL's average viewer numbers.
For instance, LoL is at 116k viewers right now, and WoL is at 5.8k.
Ok, see this is why you will never win this argument, because your evidence sucks and your wrong. Right now, the LCS is live, which the LoL main competitive league run by Riot, which always has around 100K viewers. Now there is nothing on for SC2 and all the most popular streamers aren’t on or and there is no major event right now. Stop using shitty information to make your point and then claiming that other times your information is fine when people point out that it is shitty. Blizzard’s Vengeance stream had 40K viewers to watch a show match and a trailer.
Even without the LCS, there are always at least 50k viewers or more. TSM members get 25k+ viewers on a daily basis. SC2 seems to fit around 8k-15k on average.
and what does that say about the sustainability of IPL? that's right. absolutely nothing.
On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around.
I also like to add that GOM ran Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and A.V.A. leagues alongside their BW leagues back in the day. GOMtv running multiple leagues for multiple games is hardly unusual.
3 years of running only SC2 tournaments, and now that viewer numbers are way down across the board, they start to expand their tournament roster. Yep, not unusual.
Where exactly are you getting their viewership numbers from?
Also how do you explain their new expensive studio with that logic?
I'm getting my viewer numbers from Twitch.tv, and the general amount of activity forums see relating to SC2 events.
Those are terrible metrics to gauge SC2 by and doing is incredibly naïve. That is like gauging the popularity of a TV show by the activity on forums and number of views on their youtube page. I watch SC2 on my TV and don’t post in live update threads often. You can’t just taking the limited about of front facing information available and then make a grand statement like SC2 is dying. And if you do, be prepared to be shouted down by people who know better.
But I have wasted enough time on the forums this morning. I have appeals that must be dismissed and motions for sanctions to draft.
Ok and I'm also just factoring in, you know, the closure of one of SC2's largest tournaments and all the player retirements/team closures or mergers that have happened recently.......
You're obviously not that bright of an individual so I'll try and make this simple for you.
You seem to be one of the people who highlights and bookmarks every single negative thing, and fails to note the important positives/facts. Almost every single team that has closed in the past 6 months has been a result of poor management, and not "SC2 Dying". In fact, we've had an equal number, if not greater number of teams pop up in the last few months on a positive track compared to the mismanaged teams that have fallen to the wayside. Sponsorship of teams is also UP despite what you'd probably like to believe. Almost every single retirement in the past 6 months has either been attributed to lack of relevancy in the scene, or no desire to make the switch to Heart of the Swarm, not "SC2 Dying". IPL 6's closure is not due to "SC2 Dying" which would be a mind-numbingly retarded assumption in the first place considering under the previous NewsCorp ownership they were already set to do 4 events this year with the GOAL of breaking even by the last event, but rather due to the fact that IGN as a whole is being set up on a market and therefore needs to be "groomed" and that means trimming excess fat in the budget, namely the flashy IPL division.
People like you are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines if you continue to put your blinders on and tunnel vision on the negative, so I would like to kindly suggest that you take them off and look at the big picture before you make yourself look even more foolish and drag some more poor, idiotic hive-mind followers onto the "SC2 is dying" train.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2.
As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today.
Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear.
Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true.
So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we?
It is a perfect counter argument to “People are negative about SC2, so there must be a reason they are like that. And that reason is the game is bad and it is dying.” Once again, your proof for SC2 is dying is that people are negative about it on internet forums and the twitch numbers are sometimes lower than LoL.
Uhh no, Twitch numbers have been sinking steadily for SC2. That's my point. And saying they're "sometimes" lower than LoL is a pretty big stretch, try something along the lines of, sometimes during major finals SC2 gets close to LoL's average viewer numbers.
For instance, LoL is at 116k viewers right now, and WoL is at 5.8k.
Ok, see this is why you will never win this argument, because your evidence sucks and your wrong. Right now, the LCS is live, which the LoL main competitive league run by Riot, which always has around 100K viewers. Now there is nothing on for SC2 and all the most popular streamers aren’t on or and there is no major event right now. Stop using shitty information to make your point and then claiming that other times your information is fine when people point out that it is shitty. Blizzard’s Vengeance stream had 40K viewers to watch a show match and a trailer.
Even without the LCS, there are always at least 50k viewers or more. TSM members get 25k+ viewers on a daily basis. SC2 seems to fit around 8k-15k on average. And no I'm not "wrong", go look for yourself instead of mindlessly attacking me for no apparent reason.
Only one Dota 2 player breaks 5k viewers, sorry guys Dota 2 is dying.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2.
As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today.
Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear.
Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true.
So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we?
It is a perfect counter argument to “People are negative about SC2, so there must be a reason they are like that. And that reason is the game is bad and it is dying.” Once again, your proof for SC2 is dying is that people are negative about it on internet forums and the twitch numbers are sometimes lower than LoL.
Uhh no, Twitch numbers have been sinking steadily for SC2. That's my point. And saying they're "sometimes" lower than LoL is a pretty big stretch, try something along the lines of, sometimes during major finals SC2 gets close to LoL's average viewer numbers.
For instance, LoL is at 116k viewers right now, and WoL is at 5.8k.
Ok, see this is why you will never win this argument, because your evidence sucks and your wrong. Right now, the LCS is live, which the LoL main competitive league run by Riot, which always has around 100K viewers. Now there is nothing on for SC2 and all the most popular streamers aren’t on or and there is no major event right now. Stop using shitty information to make your point and then claiming that other times your information is fine when people point out that it is shitty. Blizzard’s Vengeance stream had 40K viewers to watch a show match and a trailer.
Even without the LCS, there are always at least 50k viewers or more. TSM members get 25k+ viewers on a daily basis. SC2 seems to fit around 8k-15k on average. And no I'm not "wrong", go look for yourself instead of mindlessly attacking me for no apparent reason.
Yeah, I am done arguing with you at this point. Clearly you will just use the point that LoL has more viewers on a daily basis and that means that SC2 is going to die. And when people just point to the same piece of evidence and claim “look the number is lower than the other number” I check out. I mean that theory flies in the face of all logic and how the world works, but you are entitled to your flawed opinion. After all, we all know that the NFL is the only sport in the US, since it has the most viewers. Baseball, Golf, tennis and hockey, those are all dying and are going to go away. All TV shows that that are not number #1, dead to the world. Music that isn’t top of the charts, will also fail.
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2.
As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today.
Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear.
Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true.
So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we?
It is a perfect counter argument to “People are negative about SC2, so there must be a reason they are like that. And that reason is the game is bad and it is dying.” Once again, your proof for SC2 is dying is that people are negative about it on internet forums and the twitch numbers are sometimes lower than LoL.
Uhh no, Twitch numbers have been sinking steadily for SC2. That's my point. And saying they're "sometimes" lower than LoL is a pretty big stretch, try something along the lines of, sometimes during major finals SC2 gets close to LoL's average viewer numbers.
For instance, LoL is at 116k viewers right now, and WoL is at 5.8k.
Ok, see this is why you will never win this argument, because your evidence sucks and your wrong. Right now, the LCS is live, which the LoL main competitive league run by Riot, which always has around 100K viewers. Now there is nothing on for SC2 and all the most popular streamers aren’t on or and there is no major event right now. Stop using shitty information to make your point and then claiming that other times your information is fine when people point out that it is shitty. Blizzard’s Vengeance stream had 40K viewers to watch a show match and a trailer.
Even without the LCS, there are always at least 50k viewers or more. TSM members get 25k+ viewers on a daily basis. SC2 seems to fit around 8k-15k on average.
and what does that say about the sustainability of IPL? that's right. absolutely nothing.
well LoL has been ipl's main game for ages. so there has to be some link in there
Staring at twitter hoping to see updates is like watching paint dry!!! i could care less about the speculation going on in this forum, where are some facts!?!?!
On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around.
I also like to add that GOM ran Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and A.V.A. leagues alongside their BW leagues back in the day. GOMtv running multiple leagues for multiple games is hardly unusual.
3 years of running only SC2 tournaments, and now that viewer numbers are way down across the board, they start to expand their tournament roster. Yep, not unusual.
Where exactly are you getting their viewership numbers from?
Also how do you explain their new expensive studio with that logic?
I'm getting my viewer numbers from Twitch.tv, and the general amount of activity forums see relating to SC2 events.
Those are terrible metrics to gauge SC2 by and doing is incredibly naïve. That is like gauging the popularity of a TV show by the activity on forums and number of views on their youtube page. I watch SC2 on my TV and don’t post in live update threads often. You can’t just taking the limited about of front facing information available and then make a grand statement like SC2 is dying. And if you do, be prepared to be shouted down by people who know better.
But I have wasted enough time on the forums this morning. I have appeals that must be dismissed and motions for sanctions to draft.
Ok and I'm also just factoring in, you know, the closure of one of SC2's largest tournaments and all the player retirements/team closures or mergers that have happened recently.......
You're obviously not that bright of an individual so I'll try and make this simple for you.
You seem to be one of the people who highlights and bookmarks every single negative thing, and fails to note the important positives/facts. Almost every single team that has closed in the past 6 months has been a result of poor management, and not "SC2 Dying". In fact, we've had an equal number, if not greater number of teams pop up in the last few months on a positive track compared to the mismanaged teams that have fallen to the wayside. Sponsorship of teams is also UP despite what you'd probably like to believe. Almost every single retirement in the past 6 months has either been attributed to lack of relevancy in the scene, or no desire to make the switch to Heart of the Swarm, not "SC2 Dying". IPL 6's closure is not due to "SC2 Dying" which would be a mind-numbingly retarded assumption in the first place considering under the previous NewsCorp ownership they were already set to do 4 events this year with the GOAL of breaking even by the last event, but rather due to the fact that IGN as a whole is being set up on a market and therefore needs to be "groomed" and that means trimming excess fat in the budget, namely the flashy IPL division.
People like you are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines if you continue to put your blinders on and tunnel vision on the negative, so I would like to kindly suggest that you take them off and look at the big picture before you make yourself look even more foolish and drag some more poor, idiotic hive-mind followers onto the "SC2 is dying" train.
Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part.
By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under, which is exactly what has been happening lately.
On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around.
I also like to add that GOM ran Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and A.V.A. leagues alongside their BW leagues back in the day. GOMtv running multiple leagues for multiple games is hardly unusual.
3 years of running only SC2 tournaments, and now that viewer numbers are way down across the board, they start to expand their tournament roster. Yep, not unusual.
Where exactly are you getting their viewership numbers from?
Also how do you explain their new expensive studio with that logic?
I'm getting my viewer numbers from Twitch.tv, and the general amount of activity forums see relating to SC2 events.
Those are terrible metrics to gauge SC2 by and doing is incredibly naïve. That is like gauging the popularity of a TV show by the activity on forums and number of views on their youtube page. I watch SC2 on my TV and don’t post in live update threads often. You can’t just taking the limited about of front facing information available and then make a grand statement like SC2 is dying. And if you do, be prepared to be shouted down by people who know better.
But I have wasted enough time on the forums this morning. I have appeals that must be dismissed and motions for sanctions to draft.
Ok and I'm also just factoring in, you know, the closure of one of SC2's largest tournaments and all the player retirements/team closures or mergers that have happened recently.......
You're obviously not that bright of an individual so I'll try and make this simple for you.
You seem to be one of the people who highlights and bookmarks every single negative thing, and fails to note the important positives/facts. Almost every single team that has closed in the past 6 months has been a result of poor management, and not "SC2 Dying". In fact, we've had an equal number, if not greater number of teams pop up in the last few months on a positive track compared to the mismanaged teams that have fallen to the wayside. Sponsorship of teams is also UP despite what you'd probably like to believe. Almost every single retirement in the past 6 months has either been attributed to lack of relevancy in the scene, or no desire to make the switch to Heart of the Swarm, not "SC2 Dying". IPL 6's closure is not due to "SC2 Dying" which would be a mind-numbingly retarded assumption in the first place considering under the previous NewsCorp ownership they were already set to do 4 events this year with the GOAL of breaking even by the last event, but rather due to the fact that IGN as a whole is being set up on a market and therefore needs to be "groomed" and that means trimming excess fat in the budget, namely the flashy IPL division.
People like you are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines if you continue to put your blinders on and tunnel vision on the negative, so I would like to kindly suggest that you take them off and look at the big picture before you make yourself look even more foolish and drag some more poor, idiotic hive-mind followers onto the "SC2 is dying" train.
You could at least be civil with your response. I'm not one to buy into the whole 'SC2 is dying zomg' thing either, but even you have to admit that, compared with the big events of 2011, 2012 (MLG Columbus, Dreamhack Winter 2011, etc., crowds, tournament viewership numbers, the whole nine yards have gotten smaller. That's not to say that the scene is dying out, but it is smaller than it used to be. Just compare viewership numbers between TSL 3 and TSL 4.
On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote: Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part.
You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems.
By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under.
Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene.
Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent.
On March 02 2013 01:01 marvellosity wrote: wow, this Anomaly guy sure knows how to trash a thread.
A thread about the cancellation of a major SC2 tournament. You were expecting everyone to be all happy and cheerful about it in here? Specifically someone (that someone being me), whom called it in the last IPL thread and was absolutely assaulted on a personal level by about 5 individuals for connecting the dots.
On March 01 2013 23:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Funny because GOM just moved to a bigger, better, more expensive studio and their production for SC2 has only been getting better. That doesn't make sense. Their production costs money. Adding games is a sign that they're doing well, not the other way around.
I also like to add that GOM ran Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and A.V.A. leagues alongside their BW leagues back in the day. GOMtv running multiple leagues for multiple games is hardly unusual.
3 years of running only SC2 tournaments, and now that viewer numbers are way down across the board, they start to expand their tournament roster. Yep, not unusual.
Where exactly are you getting their viewership numbers from?
Also how do you explain their new expensive studio with that logic?
I'm getting my viewer numbers from Twitch.tv, and the general amount of activity forums see relating to SC2 events.
Those are terrible metrics to gauge SC2 by and doing is incredibly naïve. That is like gauging the popularity of a TV show by the activity on forums and number of views on their youtube page. I watch SC2 on my TV and don’t post in live update threads often. You can’t just taking the limited about of front facing information available and then make a grand statement like SC2 is dying. And if you do, be prepared to be shouted down by people who know better.
But I have wasted enough time on the forums this morning. I have appeals that must be dismissed and motions for sanctions to draft.
Ok and I'm also just factoring in, you know, the closure of one of SC2's largest tournaments and all the player retirements/team closures or mergers that have happened recently.......
You're obviously not that bright of an individual so I'll try and make this simple for you.
You seem to be one of the people who highlights and bookmarks every single negative thing, and fails to note the important positives/facts. Almost every single team that has closed in the past 6 months has been a result of poor management, and not "SC2 Dying". In fact, we've had an equal number, if not greater number of teams pop up in the last few months on a positive track compared to the mismanaged teams that have fallen to the wayside. Sponsorship of teams is also UP despite what you'd probably like to believe. Almost every single retirement in the past 6 months has either been attributed to lack of relevancy in the scene, or no desire to make the switch to Heart of the Swarm, not "SC2 Dying". IPL 6's closure is not due to "SC2 Dying" which would be a mind-numbingly retarded assumption in the first place considering under the previous NewsCorp ownership they were already set to do 4 events this year with the GOAL of breaking even by the last event, but rather due to the fact that IGN as a whole is being set up on a market and therefore needs to be "groomed" and that means trimming excess fat in the budget, namely the flashy IPL division.
People like you are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines if you continue to put your blinders on and tunnel vision on the negative, so I would like to kindly suggest that you take them off and look at the big picture before you make yourself look even more foolish and drag some more poor, idiotic hive-mind followers onto the "SC2 is dying" train.
You could at least be civil with your response. I'm not one to buy into the whole 'SC2 is dying zomg' thing either, but even you have to admit that, compared with the big events of 2011, 2012 (MLG Columbus, Dreamhack Winter 2011, etc., crowds, tournament viewership numbers, the whole nine yards have gotten smaller. That's not to say that the scene is dying out, but it is smaller than it used to be. Just compare viewership numbers between TSL 3 and TSL 4.
The two events we had this year (IronSquid and IEM Katowice) were bigger and better than most of what we saw in 2011 and 2012.
On March 02 2013 00:54 refmac_cys.cys wrote: You could at least be civil with your response. I'm not one to buy into the whole 'SC2 is dying zomg' thing either, but even you have to admit that, compared with the big events of 2011, 2012 (MLG Columbus, Dreamhack Winter 2011, etc., crowds, tournament viewership numbers, the whole nine yards have gotten smaller. That's not to say that the scene is dying out, but it is smaller than it used to be. Just compare viewership numbers between TSL 3 and TSL 4.
Well but whats the reason some tournaments got less viewers? Is it because people stopped watching SC2 or is it because there is a lot more SC2 content these days which spreads out the viewers?
I was attacking you because you lacked factual information and were working for inference and your own personal thoughts. You were also attempting to make the SC2 is dying argument, which always gets me into rage mode because it so dumb. Now that there is overwhelming evidence that IPL is scaling back, I will say you inferred correctly. But they shutting down has nothing to do with SC2 in any way.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2.
As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today.
Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear.
Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true.
So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we?
It is a perfect counter argument to “People are negative about SC2, so there must be a reason they are like that. And that reason is the game is bad and it is dying.” Once again, your proof for SC2 is dying is that people are negative about it on internet forums and the twitch numbers are sometimes lower than LoL.
Uhh no, Twitch numbers have been sinking steadily for SC2. That's my point. And saying they're "sometimes" lower than LoL is a pretty big stretch, try something along the lines of, sometimes during major finals SC2 gets close to LoL's average viewer numbers.
For instance, LoL is at 116k viewers right now, and WoL is at 5.8k. HoTS is at 3.4k, figured I should mention that before someone goes crazy on me
Please post some actual long-term numbers or politely shut the frick up and stop saying how twitch.tv numbers are going steadily downhill. You don't know what you are talking about.
Yes, LoL has more viewers than SC2. No, that's not new. It's been like that for more than a year.
On March 02 2013 01:01 marvellosity wrote: wow, this Anomaly guy sure knows how to trash a thread.
A thread about the cancellation of a major SC2 tournament. You were expecting everyone to be all happy and cheerful about it in here? Specifically someone (that someone being me), whom called it in the last IPL thread and was absolutely assaulted on a personal level by about 5 individuals for connecting the dots.
Who cares? You're not bringing anything to the table except for ranting. I read this thread in one go from page 1 to here, and the only feelings i was left with were that you're very annoying.
Do you have valid points? Possibly (i have no idea), but the way you're putting them across is just begging to be ignored and/or get other people angry.
Lol @ people trollfeeding AnomalySC2. I regret doing it myself but at least I was brief enough to just point out his error in logical reasoning and be done with it. Getting into the particulars of his non-argument is pointless because he's just going to repeat his leaps of logic that you can't break down because they're just his "opinion and personal belief".
He even admitted he has nothing but leaps of logic so that ends the discussion right there...PLEASE stop feeding him, you are just making it seem like a legitimate debate.
I don't see how you can't connect SC2 to IPL's dying. If the games being played were good enough, people would watch and stay invested. Again, just common sense on my part, go ahead and attack me some more for expressing my opinion.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2.
As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today.
Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear.
Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true.
So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we?
It is a perfect counter argument to “People are negative about SC2, so there must be a reason they are like that. And that reason is the game is bad and it is dying.” Once again, your proof for SC2 is dying is that people are negative about it on internet forums and the twitch numbers are sometimes lower than LoL.
Uhh no, Twitch numbers have been sinking steadily for SC2. That's my point. And saying they're "sometimes" lower than LoL is a pretty big stretch, try something along the lines of, sometimes during major finals SC2 gets close to LoL's average viewer numbers.
For instance, LoL is at 116k viewers right now, and WoL is at 5.8k. HoTS is at 3.4k, figured I should mention that before someone goes crazy on me
Please post some actual long-term numbers or politely shut the frick up and stop saying how twitch.tv numbers are going steadily downhill. You don't know what you are talking about.
Yes, LoL has more viewers than SC2. No, that's not new. It's been like that for more than a year.
Way to just completely disregard proof right in front of your face and then tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about. This is getting silly and ugly just like the last IPL thread. I'll humbly back out now, and lets just wait and see what happens just like last time.
On March 02 2013 01:01 marvellosity wrote: wow, this Anomaly guy sure knows how to trash a thread.
A thread about the cancellation of a major SC2 tournament. You were expecting everyone to be all happy and cheerful about it in here? Specifically someone (that someone being me), whom called it in the last IPL thread and was absolutely assaulted on a personal level by about 5 individuals for connecting the dots.
You talk a lot, but you don't actually bring anything to the conversation. You offer no constructive criticism, just trashing SCII like you hate it all along, and any negative thing that impacts the scene you revel on. There's a word for people like this: Whiners
On March 02 2013 01:11 kollin wrote: Is Anomaly still arguing despite being beaten down in every aspect the last time he brought this up?
The last time this was brought up you told me IPL wouldn't close, and look what just happened. I was RIGHT in every aspect, you're blatantly lying. And I'm not sure why you all keep claiming I'm providing no proof, you can't read or something?
On March 02 2013 01:01 marvellosity wrote: wow, this Anomaly guy sure knows how to trash a thread.
A thread about the cancellation of a major SC2 tournament. You were expecting everyone to be all happy and cheerful about it in here? Specifically someone (that someone being me), whom called it in the last IPL thread and was absolutely assaulted on a personal level by about 5 individuals for connecting the dots.
Doesn't it also mean that the IPL lol tournament is closing? Are you also arguing that "Lol is dying" all over the Lol forums? If not, why don't you start, because judging by your logic IPL's cancellation must mean imminent death for Lol, too.
Also, what's the point of reiterating your opinion over and over, either just state your opinion once (which is your good right of course) and be upset about SC2's death, or - better - do something constructive about it if you have a good idea. Just saying over and over that SC2 is dying doesn't help anyone, I'm afraid.
On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote: Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part.
You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems.
By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under.
Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene.
Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent.
Funny thing is, if you go to the thread about IGN wanting to sell IPL, you'll see tons and tons of posts similar to this one, proclaiming with absolute confidence that the sceptics simply don't understand business and how the industry functions, IPL is definitely profitable and will find a buyer any day now, and everyone who disagrees is a dumb troll.
Just keep on believing everything's fine bro, surely if you believe hard enough it will become true, right?
Also, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect Plansix, with his "People on the internet just hate these games because they're haters. They got great reviews, so they must be great, right? Those damned entitled gamers!" argument of being some kind of viral marketer drone. Unfortunately though, I've been on the internet long enough to accept the sad truth that there will always be someone who genuinely believes this nonsense.
In any case, I wish you good luck, my brothers. Even though I don't care much for the game anymore, it would be a shame for the scene to fall apart, so I hope things turn for the better somehow. I hope, but I don't really believe it.
No, you said SC2 was dying and then used irrelevant facts to back it up. Also, at no point has this been made official, and looking at David Ting's recent tweets he heavily hints IPL has been sold. I suggest, instead of non-stop whining you actually stop and think.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2.
As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today.
Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear.
Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true.
So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we?
It is a perfect counter argument to “People are negative about SC2, so there must be a reason they are like that. And that reason is the game is bad and it is dying.” Once again, your proof for SC2 is dying is that people are negative about it on internet forums and the twitch numbers are sometimes lower than LoL.
Uhh no, Twitch numbers have been sinking steadily for SC2. That's my point. And saying they're "sometimes" lower than LoL is a pretty big stretch, try something along the lines of, sometimes during major finals SC2 gets close to LoL's average viewer numbers.
For instance, LoL is at 116k viewers right now, and WoL is at 5.8k. HoTS is at 3.4k, figured I should mention that before someone goes crazy on me
Please post some actual long-term numbers or politely shut the frick up and stop saying how twitch.tv numbers are going steadily downhill. You don't know what you are talking about.
Yes, LoL has more viewers than SC2. No, that's not new. It's been like that for more than a year.
Way to just completely disregard proof right in front of your face and then tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about. This is getting silly and ugly just like the last IPL thread. I'll humbly back out now, and lets just wait and see what happens just like last time.
Quoting random Twitch numbers from a random date and time, with no context is proof of nothing. If you believe otherwise, you are wrong. If you continue to state it over and over when others have pointed that out to you, you are stubborn or unable to understand anything beyond one number is higher than another.
On March 02 2013 01:11 kollin wrote: Is Anomaly still arguing despite being beaten down in every aspect the last time he brought this up?
The last time this was brought up you told me IPL wouldn't close, and look what just happened. I was RIGHT in every aspect, you're blatantly lying. And I'm not sure why you all keep claiming I'm providing no proof, you can't read or something?
Rofl, nice humble back down. Btw, isn't IPL heavily invested into League of Legends, not just sc2? Pretty sure that just ends your silly little arguments in their tracks.
Artosis said it best on SotG when he said “how can you have an opinion that’s so wrong. Opinions aren’t supposed to wrong.” The sale of IGN has nothing to do with SC2, but more that News Corp was looking to unload an unsuccessful site that was getting its lunch eaten by Giant Bomb, Game Spot and newcomers like Total Biscuit. Because IGN was sold, IPL now was in a place where they might not have funding for a while, so they needed to pull back on their events until they found a buyer/sponsor. The number of views on SC2 has nothing to do with any of those events. Even if 200K people watch IPL6, they might not have a buyer to help them run the next event or cover the cost of their employees until they run that event.
To put it another way, IPL was put in a place where they didn’t know if any more money would be coming beyond what they had. So they are forced to go responsible route and decided not to bet all of it on a single event and hope that it was profitable enough to get them to IPL7. You don’t bet the entire business on one event, that is a terrible plan. But none of it has anything to do with SC2.
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2.
As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today.
Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear.
Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true.
So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we?
It is a perfect counter argument to “People are negative about SC2, so there must be a reason they are like that. And that reason is the game is bad and it is dying.” Once again, your proof for SC2 is dying is that people are negative about it on internet forums and the twitch numbers are sometimes lower than LoL.
Uhh no, Twitch numbers have been sinking steadily for SC2. That's my point. And saying they're "sometimes" lower than LoL is a pretty big stretch, try something along the lines of, sometimes during major finals SC2 gets close to LoL's average viewer numbers.
For instance, LoL is at 116k viewers right now, and WoL is at 5.8k. HoTS is at 3.4k, figured I should mention that before someone goes crazy on me
Please post some actual long-term numbers or politely shut the frick up and stop saying how twitch.tv numbers are going steadily downhill. You don't know what you are talking about.
Yes, LoL has more viewers than SC2. No, that's not new. It's been like that for more than a year.
Way to just completely disregard proof right in front of your face and then tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about. This is getting silly and ugly just like the last IPL thread. I'll humbly back out now, and lets just wait and see what happens just like last time.
You know, the amusing thing is that I have the actual numbers from twitch.tv. Not just from right now, but going up for over a year. And I can tell you with absolute certainty that SC2 numbers have not, in fact, gone "steadily downhill". In fact, they have been pretty stable over the last 6 months.
On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote: Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part.
You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems.
By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under.
Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene.
Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent.
Funny thing is, if you go to the thread about IGN wanting to sell IPL, you'll see tons and tons of posts similar to this one, proclaiming with absolute confidence that the sceptics simply don't understand business and how the industry functions, IPL is definitely profitable and will find a buyer any day now, and everyone who disagrees is a dumb troll.
Just keep on believing everything's fine bro, surely if you believe hard enough it will become true, right?
Also, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect Plansix, with his "People on the internet just hate these games because they're haters. They got great reviews, so they must be great, right? Those damned entitled gamers!" argument of being some kind of viral marketer drone. Unfortunately though, I've been on the internet long enough to accept the sad truth that there will always be someone who genuinely believes this nonsense.
In any case, I wish you good luck, my brothers. Even though I don't care much for the game anymore, it would be a shame for the scene to fall apart, so I hope things turn for the better somehow. I hope, but I don't really believe it.
I'm just going to take this guy's post, whom had the balls to point out that clearly some of the people attacking me have ulterior motives (sup blizzard). Yup, I can't add much to this because he said everything better than I ever could, so instead I'll just say lets wait and see how it all turns out
On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote: Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part.
You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems.
By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under.
Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene.
Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent.
Funny thing is, if you go to the thread about IGN wanting to sell IPL, you'll see tons and tons of posts similar to this one, proclaiming with absolute confidence that the sceptics simply don't understand business and how the industry functions, IPL is definitely profitable and will find a buyer any day now, and everyone who disagrees is a dumb troll.
Just keep on believing everything's fine bro, surely if you believe hard enough it will become true, right?
Also, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect Plansix, with his "People on the internet just hate these games because they're haters. They got great reviews, so they must be great, right? Those damned entitled gamers!" argument of being some kind of viral marketer drone. Unfortunately though, I've been on the internet long enough to accept the sad truth that there will always be someone who genuinely believes this nonsense.
In any case, I wish you good luck, my brothers. Even though I don't care much for the game anymore, it would be a shame for the scene to fall apart, so I hope things turn for the better somehow. I hope, but I don't really believe it.
I'm just going to take this guy's post, whom had the balls to point out that clearly some of the people attacking me have ulterior motives (sup blizzard). Yup, I can't add much to this because he said everything better than I ever could, so instead I'll just say lets wait and see how it all turns out
Oh shit, you caught me I work for Blizzard! Show's over guys, go home.
Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments.
League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals.
Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying
On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote: Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part.
You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems.
By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under.
Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene.
Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent.
Funny thing is, if you go to the thread about IGN wanting to sell IPL, you'll see tons and tons of posts similar to this one, proclaiming with absolute confidence that the sceptics simply don't understand business and how the industry functions, IPL is definitely profitable and will find a buyer any day now, and everyone who disagrees is a dumb troll.
Just keep on believing everything's fine bro, surely if you believe hard enough it will become true, right?
Also, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect Plansix, with his "People on the internet just hate these games because they're haters. They got great reviews, so they must be great, right? Those damned entitled gamers!" argument of being some kind of viral marketer drone. Unfortunately though, I've been on the internet long enough to accept the sad truth that there will always be someone who genuinely believes this nonsense.
In any case, I wish you good luck, my brothers. Even though I don't care much for the game anymore, it would be a shame for the scene to fall apart, so I hope things turn for the better somehow. I hope, but I don't really believe it.
I never said anywhere that IPL was "definitely profitable". In fact, I said the opposite. Their long term goal over the entire 2013 season was slated to be "break even". That implies that I'm well aware that IPL is NOT currently a profitable venture for IGN, hence the cut when the parent corporation is essentially put up for auction.
Why are people arguing that SC2's viewership numbers aren't decreasing? :s it's very obvious that they are, be it because people are bored of WoL / zergs / current meta or whatever, but it's pretty stupid denying that...
On March 02 2013 01:26 Salazarz wrote: Why are people arguing that SC2's viewership numbers aren't decreasing? :s it's very obvious that they are, be it because people are bored of WoL / zergs / current meta or whatever, but it's pretty stupid denying that...
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume.
Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2.
As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today.
Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity.
Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo.
Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear.
Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true.
So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we?
It is a perfect counter argument to “People are negative about SC2, so there must be a reason they are like that. And that reason is the game is bad and it is dying.” Once again, your proof for SC2 is dying is that people are negative about it on internet forums and the twitch numbers are sometimes lower than LoL.
Uhh no, Twitch numbers have been sinking steadily for SC2. That's my point. And saying they're "sometimes" lower than LoL is a pretty big stretch, try something along the lines of, sometimes during major finals SC2 gets close to LoL's average viewer numbers.
For instance, LoL is at 116k viewers right now, and WoL is at 5.8k. HoTS is at 3.4k, figured I should mention that before someone goes crazy on me
Please post some actual long-term numbers or politely shut the frick up and stop saying how twitch.tv numbers are going steadily downhill. You don't know what you are talking about.
Yes, LoL has more viewers than SC2. No, that's not new. It's been like that for more than a year.
Way to just completely disregard proof right in front of your face and then tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about. This is getting silly and ugly just like the last IPL thread. I'll humbly back out now, and lets just wait and see what happens just like last time.
You know, the amusing thing is that I have the actual numbers from twitch.tv. Not just from right now, but going up for over a year. And I can tell you with absolute certainty that SC2 numbers have not, in fact, gone "steadily downhill". In fact, they have been pretty stable over the last 6 months.
We're arguing that because we have facts and evidence.
200$ down the drain to change my plane ticket from MLG dallas to IPL6 (booked early didn't think there would't be any open bracket) and now this... WTF =(
On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote: Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part.
You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems.
By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under.
Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene.
Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent.
Funny thing is, if you go to the thread about IGN wanting to sell IPL, you'll see tons and tons of posts similar to this one, proclaiming with absolute confidence that the sceptics simply don't understand business and how the industry functions, IPL is definitely profitable and will find a buyer any day now, and everyone who disagrees is a dumb troll.
Just keep on believing everything's fine bro, surely if you believe hard enough it will become true, right?
Also, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect Plansix, with his "People on the internet just hate these games because they're haters. They got great reviews, so they must be great, right? Those damned entitled gamers!" argument of being some kind of viral marketer drone. Unfortunately though, I've been on the internet long enough to accept the sad truth that there will always be someone who genuinely believes this nonsense.
In any case, I wish you good luck, my brothers. Even though I don't care much for the game anymore, it would be a shame for the scene to fall apart, so I hope things turn for the better somehow. I hope, but I don't really believe it.
I'm just going to take this guy's post, whom had the balls to point out that clearly some of the people attacking me have ulterior motives (sup blizzard). Yup, I can't add much to this because he said everything better than I ever could, so instead I'll just say lets wait and see how it all turns out
Yeah, his point is really good. Except I am a paralegal that works for a law firm and I have nothing to do with IPL or Blizzard beyond owning and loving SC2. But good argument, that people who disagree with you must be paid to do so, because that is the only way they have a different point of view. Of course, we would never based our information on facts, that would be to easy.
And he confused the word “drone” with “grown up”. But other than that, he was mostly correct….ok, not at all.
On March 02 2013 01:29 FXOdesRow wrote: 200$ down the drain to change my plane ticket from MLG dallas to IPL6 (booked early didn't think there would't be any open bracket) and now this... WTF =(
Well it hasn't actually been cancelled yet, this is all rumours and people stating things without IPL actually announcing anything. It would be monumentally stupid of IPL to not tell their players as soon as they make the decision, so I wouldn't lose hope if I were you.
It's not that SCII is going downhill, it's that the company running IPL6 is disorganized. Shame on them for not letting people know there was a possibility of cancellation ahead of time.
On March 02 2013 01:29 FXOdesRow wrote: 200$ down the drain to change my plane ticket from MLG dallas to IPL6 (booked early didn't think there would't be any open bracket) and now this... WTF =(
I am really sorry, that sucks man. I wish you could be compensated.
Nobody is saying the SCII scene is dying, but its pretty clear that the scene was a huge bubble and is now contracting, hopefully to a sustainable level. This is pretty damn obvious, I don't know why people are even arguing about this. Also to the kollin guy, don't you think its a little hypocritical that you write a blog about mature you think are are for a 13 year old, then attack other people for disagreeing with you?
On March 02 2013 01:36 iamho wrote: Nobody is saying the SCII scene is dying, but its pretty clear that the scene was a huge bubble and is now contracting, hopefully to a sustainable level. This is pretty damn obvious, I don't know why people are even arguing about this. Also to the kollin guy, don't you think its a little hypocritical that you write a blog about mature you think are are for a 13 year old, then attack other people for disagreeing with you?
On March 02 2013 01:36 iamho wrote: Nobody is saying the SCII scene is dying, but its pretty clear that the scene was a huge bubble and is now contracting, hopefully to a sustainable level. This is pretty damn obvious, I don't know why people are even arguing about this. Also to the kollin guy, don't you think its a little hypocritical that you write a blog about mature you think are are for a 13 year old, then attack other people for disagreeing with you?
This post is wrong in so many ways.
Good argument Kollin. "this post is wrong" you showed him.
On March 02 2013 01:36 iamho wrote: Nobody is saying the SCII scene is dying, but its pretty clear that the scene was a huge bubble and is now contracting, hopefully to a sustainable level. This is pretty damn obvious, I don't know why people are even arguing about this. Also to the kollin guy, don't you think its a little hypocritical that you write a blog about mature you think are are for a 13 year old, then attack other people for disagreeing with you?
This post is wrong in so many ways.
Good argument Kollin. "this post is wrong" you showed him.
Sometimes the points are so dumb, it is all you can say without causing self-inflicted brain damage.
On March 02 2013 01:36 iamho wrote: Nobody is saying the SCII scene is dying, but its pretty clear that the scene was a huge bubble and is now contracting, hopefully to a sustainable level. This is pretty damn obvious, I don't know why people are even arguing about this. Also to the kollin guy, don't you think its a little hypocritical that you write a blog about mature you think are are for a 13 year old, then attack other people for disagreeing with you?
This post is wrong in so many ways.
Good argument Kollin. "this post is wrong" you showed him.
OK, want me to go through each part and show why it is wrong? I do agree with the first part actually, I don't think it was as big as a bubble as he makes it out to be, but there was definitely oversaturation. The second part is just wrong. The blog I made wasn't about how mature I think I am. I'm not going to summarise it, you can read it yourself but it was in no way what he claimed it to be. I haven't attacked anyone else, at all. Not even in the slightest. I'll admit that sometimes I can be aggressive in my tone, and that's something I do need to work on, but I have not attacked one person in this thread.
On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote: Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part.
You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems.
By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under.
Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene.
Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent.
Funny thing is, if you go to the thread about IGN wanting to sell IPL, you'll see tons and tons of posts similar to this one, proclaiming with absolute confidence that the sceptics simply don't understand business and how the industry functions, IPL is definitely profitable and will find a buyer any day now, and everyone who disagrees is a dumb troll.
Just keep on believing everything's fine bro, surely if you believe hard enough it will become true, right?
Also, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect Plansix, with his "People on the internet just hate these games because they're haters. They got great reviews, so they must be great, right? Those damned entitled gamers!" argument of being some kind of viral marketer drone. Unfortunately though, I've been on the internet long enough to accept the sad truth that there will always be someone who genuinely believes this nonsense.
In any case, I wish you good luck, my brothers. Even though I don't care much for the game anymore, it would be a shame for the scene to fall apart, so I hope things turn for the better somehow. I hope, but I don't really believe it.
I'm just going to take this guy's post, whom had the balls to point out that clearly some of the people attacking me have ulterior motives (sup blizzard). Yup, I can't add much to this because he said everything better than I ever could, so instead I'll just say lets wait and see how it all turns out
I don't really think they have ulterior motives, as nice as it would be to think so. I just think they really want to believe. That thing about viral marketing was just my way of indicating how delusional Plansix is.
On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote: Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part.
You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems.
By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under.
Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene.
Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent.
Funny thing is, if you go to the thread about IGN wanting to sell IPL, you'll see tons and tons of posts similar to this one, proclaiming with absolute confidence that the sceptics simply don't understand business and how the industry functions, IPL is definitely profitable and will find a buyer any day now, and everyone who disagrees is a dumb troll.
Just keep on believing everything's fine bro, surely if you believe hard enough it will become true, right?
Also, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect Plansix, with his "People on the internet just hate these games because they're haters. They got great reviews, so they must be great, right? Those damned entitled gamers!" argument of being some kind of viral marketer drone. Unfortunately though, I've been on the internet long enough to accept the sad truth that there will always be someone who genuinely believes this nonsense.
In any case, I wish you good luck, my brothers. Even though I don't care much for the game anymore, it would be a shame for the scene to fall apart, so I hope things turn for the better somehow. I hope, but I don't really believe it.
I'm just going to take this guy's post, whom had the balls to point out that clearly some of the people attacking me have ulterior motives (sup blizzard). Yup, I can't add much to this because he said everything better than I ever could, so instead I'll just say lets wait and see how it all turns out
I don't really think they have ulterior motives, as nice as it would be to think so. I just think they really want to believe. That thing about viral marketing was just my way of indicating how delusional Plansix is.
I know rational thought is hard to understand for some folks, but facts are just that facts. People who run around claiming SC2 is dying are childish, trolls or just uninformed. You could be any one of the three, or all of them.
On March 02 2013 01:36 iamho wrote: Nobody is saying the SCII scene is dying, but its pretty clear that the scene was a huge bubble and is now contracting, hopefully to a sustainable level. This is pretty damn obvious, I don't know why people are even arguing about this. Also to the kollin guy, don't you think its a little hypocritical that you write a blog about mature you think are are for a 13 year old, then attack other people for disagreeing with you?
This post is wrong in so many ways.
Good argument Kollin. "this post is wrong" you showed him.
OK, want me to go through each part and show why it is wrong? I do agree with the first part actually, I don't think it was as big as a bubble as he makes it out to be, but there was definitely oversaturation. The second part is just wrong. The blog I made wasn't about how mature I think I am. I'm not going to summarise it, you can read it yourself but it was in no way what he claimed it to be. I haven't attacked anyone else, at all. Not even in the slightest. I'll admit that sometimes I can be aggressive in my tone, and that's something I do need to work on, but I have not attacked one person in this thread.
On March 02 2013 01:42 Al Bundy wrote: This thread is kind of a nightmare to read to be honest. I wish teenagers would stop pretending they know business
Nightmare? It's as of now 4chan worthy, this along with the "IGN to simplying and focus" thread.
On March 02 2013 00:54 refmac_cys.cys wrote: You could at least be civil with your response. I'm not one to buy into the whole 'SC2 is dying zomg' thing either, but even you have to admit that, compared with the big events of 2011, 2012 (MLG Columbus, Dreamhack Winter 2011, etc., crowds, tournament viewership numbers, the whole nine yards have gotten smaller. That's not to say that the scene is dying out, but it is smaller than it used to be. Just compare viewership numbers between TSL 3 and TSL 4.
Well but whats the reason some tournaments got less viewers? Is it because people stopped watching SC2 or is it because there is a lot more SC2 content these days which spreads out the viewers?
Because nobody is being introduced to the game, while people start to leave.
It's a fact that the Starcraft community is getting smaller, compare the Active viewer numbers on TL too for example, they used to be 15,000 consistently, now it ranges from 6000-10,000. It is not because viewers are being spread out, I promise you. It's a multitude of factors such as gameplay stagnating and damage from over saturation.
On March 02 2013 01:42 Al Bundy wrote: This thread is kind of a nightmare to read to be honest. I wish teenagers would stop pretending they know business
Nightmare? It's as of now 4chan worthy, this along with the "IGN to simplying and focus" thread.
let's just leave it at "teenagers pretending they know business" and cut the 4chan crap
On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote: Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments.
League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals.
Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying
I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world.
The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat.
SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL.
I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go.
Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much.
On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote: Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part.
You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems.
By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under.
Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene.
Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent.
Funny thing is, if you go to the thread about IGN wanting to sell IPL, you'll see tons and tons of posts similar to this one, proclaiming with absolute confidence that the sceptics simply don't understand business and how the industry functions, IPL is definitely profitable and will find a buyer any day now, and everyone who disagrees is a dumb troll.
Just keep on believing everything's fine bro, surely if you believe hard enough it will become true, right?
Also, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect Plansix, with his "People on the internet just hate these games because they're haters. They got great reviews, so they must be great, right? Those damned entitled gamers!" argument of being some kind of viral marketer drone. Unfortunately though, I've been on the internet long enough to accept the sad truth that there will always be someone who genuinely believes this nonsense.
In any case, I wish you good luck, my brothers. Even though I don't care much for the game anymore, it would be a shame for the scene to fall apart, so I hope things turn for the better somehow. I hope, but I don't really believe it.
I'm just going to take this guy's post, whom had the balls to point out that clearly some of the people attacking me have ulterior motives (sup blizzard). Yup, I can't add much to this because he said everything better than I ever could, so instead I'll just say lets wait and see how it all turns out
I don't really think they have ulterior motives, as nice as it would be to think so. I just think they really want to believe. That thing about viral marketing was just my way of indicating how delusional Plansix is.
I know rational thought is hard to understand for some folks, but facts are just that facts. People who run around claiming SC2 is dying are childish, trolls or just uninformed. You could be any one of the three, or all of them.
I'm also a bitter BW fan, you can add that to your list as well. And a white supremacist, that one never goes out of style. Did you know that all the hateful internet thugs who do nothing but criticize games are all nazis and mysoginist neckbeard basement dwellers? You should really expand your arsenal, Plansix, "children, trolls, or just uninformed" is so passe nowadays.
On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote: Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments.
League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals.
Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying
I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world.
The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat.
SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL.
I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go.
Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much.
According to Liquipedia and a few other sources SC2 is actually up on LoL last year. While I don't doubt your maths ability, I trust Liquipedia on these matters above most other people. Also, I think that Riot bumping up LoL's prize pool artifcially (using their own money) isn't a good think, same with The International in Dota 2. However, that's a discussion for another topic ^^
On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote: Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments.
League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals.
Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying
I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world.
The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat.
SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL.
I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go.
Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much.
Wow, you have a pretty bad impression of 35 year olds. I guarantee you, the best is yet to come for a 35yo, haha.
On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote: Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part.
You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems.
By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under.
Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene.
Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent.
Funny thing is, if you go to the thread about IGN wanting to sell IPL, you'll see tons and tons of posts similar to this one, proclaiming with absolute confidence that the sceptics simply don't understand business and how the industry functions, IPL is definitely profitable and will find a buyer any day now, and everyone who disagrees is a dumb troll.
Just keep on believing everything's fine bro, surely if you believe hard enough it will become true, right?
Also, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect Plansix, with his "People on the internet just hate these games because they're haters. They got great reviews, so they must be great, right? Those damned entitled gamers!" argument of being some kind of viral marketer drone. Unfortunately though, I've been on the internet long enough to accept the sad truth that there will always be someone who genuinely believes this nonsense.
In any case, I wish you good luck, my brothers. Even though I don't care much for the game anymore, it would be a shame for the scene to fall apart, so I hope things turn for the better somehow. I hope, but I don't really believe it.
I'm just going to take this guy's post, whom had the balls to point out that clearly some of the people attacking me have ulterior motives (sup blizzard). Yup, I can't add much to this because he said everything better than I ever could, so instead I'll just say lets wait and see how it all turns out
I don't really think they have ulterior motives, as nice as it would be to think so. I just think they really want to believe. That thing about viral marketing was just my way of indicating how delusional Plansix is.
I know rational thought is hard to understand for some folks, but facts are just that facts. People who run around claiming SC2 is dying are childish, trolls or just uninformed. You could be any one of the three, or all of them.
I'm also a bitter BW fan, you can add that to your list as well. And a white supremacist, that one never goes out of style. Did you know that all the hateful internet thugs who do nothing but criticize games are all nazis and mysoginist neckbeard basement dwellers? You should really expand your arsenal, Plansix, "children, trolls, or just uninformed" is so passe nowadays.
I only used what I need to get the job done, not more, no less. And I don’t need to “expand my arsenal”, it is already diverse and robust. I do think you need to turn it down a few notches or cut back on the redbulls, because your going a little over the top.
On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote: Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments.
League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals.
Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying
I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world.
The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat.
SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL.
I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go.
Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much.
Wow, you have a pretty bad impression of 35 year olds. I guarantee you, the best is yet to come for a 35yo, haha.
Haha noo, don't take it that way. I meant as in yeah, they are not as healthy as 20 year olds(which is true, considering both have a similar lifestyle), but they have more experience etc which can be seen by how Starcraft 2 having a strong community and what seems to be better organization than any other esport community. Teamliquid has been improving for 9 year now.
On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote: Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments.
League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals.
Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying
I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world.
The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat.
SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL.
I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go.
Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much.
Wow, you have a pretty bad impression of 35 year olds. I guarantee you, the best is yet to come for a 35yo, haha.
Haha noo, don't take it that way. I meant as in yeah, they are not as healthy as 20 year olds(which is true, considering both have a similar lifestyle), but they have more experience etc which can be seen by how Starcraft 2 having a strong community and what seems to be better organization than any other esport community. Teamliquid has been improving for 9 year now.
Its a good think you backed off that 35 year old comment. I was going to get all "internet offended" on you and freak out. Also, 32-35 year olds = way more common sense than 20 somethings.
On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote: Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments.
League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals.
Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying
I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world.
The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat.
SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL.
I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go.
Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much.
Wow, you have a pretty bad impression of 35 year olds. I guarantee you, the best is yet to come for a 35yo, haha.
Haha noo, don't take it that way. I meant as in yeah, they are not as healthy as 20 year olds(which is true, considering both have a similar lifestyle), but they have more experience etc which can be seen by how Starcraft 2 having a strong community and what seems to be better organization than any other esport community. Teamliquid has been improving for 9 year now.
Its a good think you backed off that 35 year old comment. I was going to get all "internet offended" on you and freak out. Also, 32-35 year olds = way more common sense than 20 somethings.
aren't us older guys supposed to have better common sense than younger lads?
On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote: Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments.
League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals.
Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying
I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world.
The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat.
SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL.
I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go.
Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much.
Wow, you have a pretty bad impression of 35 year olds. I guarantee you, the best is yet to come for a 35yo, haha.
Haha noo, don't take it that way. I meant as in yeah, they are not as healthy as 20 year olds(which is true, considering both have a similar lifestyle), but they have more experience etc which can be seen by how Starcraft 2 having a strong community and what seems to be better organization than any other esport community. Teamliquid has been improving for 9 year now.
Its a good think you backed off that 35 year old comment. I was going to get all "internet offended" on you and freak out. Also, 32-35 year olds = way more common sense than 20 somethings.
aren't us older guys supposed to have better common sense than younger lads?
Always, just like 20 somethings = way smarter than 18 year olds. Its the way the world works.
Or to quote Adam Savage: "It was only became useful to the world after age 24 when I realise that I knew nothing." He then goes on to talk about how that keeps happening to him.
On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote: Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments.
League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals.
Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying
I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world.
The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat.
SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL.
I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go.
Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much.
Wow, you have a pretty bad impression of 35 year olds. I guarantee you, the best is yet to come for a 35yo, haha.
Haha noo, don't take it that way. I meant as in yeah, they are not as healthy as 20 year olds(which is true, considering both have a similar lifestyle), but they have more experience etc which can be seen by how Starcraft 2 having a strong community and what seems to be better organization than any other esport community. Teamliquid has been improving for 9 year now.
Its a good think you backed off that 35 year old comment. I was going to get all "internet offended" on you and freak out. Also, 32-35 year olds = way more common sense than 20 somethings.
aren't us older guys supposed to have better common sense than younger lads?
Always, just like 20 somethings = way smarter than 18 year olds. Its the way the world works.
Or to quote Adam Savage: "It was only became useful to the world after age 24 when I realise that I knew nothing." He then goes on to talk about how that keeps happening to him.
On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote: Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments.
League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals.
Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying
I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world.
The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat.
SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL.
I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go.
Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much.
If you bring age into this argument as if age is actually significant, you're probably pretty stupid. But then again, this entire thread seems to be somewhat silly.
On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote: Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments.
League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals.
Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying
I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world.
The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat.
SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL.
I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go.
Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much.
Wow, you have a pretty bad impression of 35 year olds. I guarantee you, the best is yet to come for a 35yo, haha.
Haha noo, don't take it that way. I meant as in yeah, they are not as healthy as 20 year olds(which is true, considering both have a similar lifestyle), but they have more experience etc which can be seen by how Starcraft 2 having a strong community and what seems to be better organization than any other esport community. Teamliquid has been improving for 9 year now.
Its a good think you backed off that 35 year old comment. I was going to get all "internet offended" on you and freak out. Also, 32-35 year olds = way more common sense than 20 somethings.
aren't us older guys supposed to have better common sense than younger lads?
Always, just like 20 somethings = way smarter than 18 year olds. Its the way the world works.
Or to quote Adam Savage: "It was only became useful to the world after age 24 when I realise that I knew nothing." He then goes on to talk about how that keeps happening to him.
he kind of stole that line from socrates, lol
Of course, but I try to keep it current for the younger kids who might not know who this "crates" guy is.
i like to compare starcraft 2 to that of an 18 year old. fast cars, lots of chicks, alcohol, etc. then one day you take this girl out for a really crazy drive and you end up killing a deer along the road. then you go to jail and you spend some time there thinking about what you've done.
On March 02 2013 02:44 Zealously wrote: If you bring age into this argument as if age is actually significant, you're probably pretty stupid. But then again, this entire thread seems to be somewhat silly.
Thanks Zealously, nice to have some common sense injected into a blood stream of insanity.
On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote: Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments.
League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals.
Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying
I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world.
The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat.
SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL.
I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go.
Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much.
According to Liquipedia and a few other sources SC2 is actually up on LoL last year. While I don't doubt your maths ability, I trust Liquipedia on these matters above most other people. Also, I think that Riot bumping up LoL's prize pool artifcially (using their own money) isn't a good think, same with The International in Dota 2. However, that's a discussion for another topic ^^
I just added up all premier and major events in both SC2 wiki and LoL wiki. I suppose considering Team events aren't included in those, and LoL doesn't have any "team events" per say, that could overcome the 500k deficit, still pretty close either way. Riot is spending $5,000,000 on the 2013 season from the little research I did, which is impressive.
The 140k LoL viewers vs 8k WoL + 4k HotS viewers has to be considered too though when it comes to growth (who wants to become a pro gamer in a game that's at a steady decline?), and also the streaming revenue associated with that. $2-$3 per 1000 impressions, adblock included 60% impression rate means $1.2-$1.8 per user. Lets use numbers of 80k average viewers for LoL and 10k for SC2, and you have an average of $120 of revenue per commercial, using an average rate of 2 commercials per hour you get that League of Legends makes $240 an hour while SC2 makes $30 an hour.
That $210 per hour difference translates to about 1.8 million a year. Yes, during tournaments the numbers fluctuate, SC2 may gets something upwards to excess of 50k, but at the same time LoL gets 250k for it's tournaments too, again this is a rough approximation just to see the difference.
As to your second point: I'll keep it short and sweet, the way the international works, I don't think it's really good, it brings players in, but eh, just not effective at keeping them. Riot hosts not one tournament, but spreads them out, so in a way, they are the federation in their game that controls who's playing who etc, and that means no oversaturation and such.
On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote: Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part.
You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems.
By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under.
Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene.
Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent.
Funny thing is, if you go to the thread about IGN wanting to sell IPL, you'll see tons and tons of posts similar to this one, proclaiming with absolute confidence that the sceptics simply don't understand business and how the industry functions, IPL is definitely profitable and will find a buyer any day now, and everyone who disagrees is a dumb troll.
Just keep on believing everything's fine bro, surely if you believe hard enough it will become true, right?
Also, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect Plansix, with his "People on the internet just hate these games because they're haters. They got great reviews, so they must be great, right? Those damned entitled gamers!" argument of being some kind of viral marketer drone. Unfortunately though, I've been on the internet long enough to accept the sad truth that there will always be someone who genuinely believes this nonsense.
In any case, I wish you good luck, my brothers. Even though I don't care much for the game anymore, it would be a shame for the scene to fall apart, so I hope things turn for the better somehow. I hope, but I don't really believe it.
I'm just going to take this guy's post, whom had the balls to point out that clearly some of the people attacking me have ulterior motives (sup blizzard). Yup, I can't add much to this because he said everything better than I ever could, so instead I'll just say lets wait and see how it all turns out
I don't really think they have ulterior motives, as nice as it would be to think so. I just think they really want to believe. That thing about viral marketing was just my way of indicating how delusional Plansix is.
I know rational thought is hard to understand for some folks, but facts are just that facts. People who run around claiming SC2 is dying are childish, trolls or just uninformed. You could be any one of the three, or all of them.
I'm also a bitter BW fan, you can add that to your list as well. And a white supremacist, that one never goes out of style. Did you know that all the hateful internet thugs who do nothing but criticize games are all nazis and mysoginist neckbeard basement dwellers? You should really expand your arsenal, Plansix, "children, trolls, or just uninformed" is so passe nowadays.
I only used what I need to get the job done, not more, no less. And I don’t need to “expand my arsenal”, it is already diverse and robust. I do think you need to turn it down a few notches or cut back on the redbulls, because your going a little over the top.
I will take your good advice into consideration, my friend. I guess we'll see in a year or two who was right about SC2 "dying" - one thing that's certain is that exchanging snide forum posts isn't going to change the ultimate fate of the game one bit. With that, I bid you good night. Mayhaps we'll meet on better terms in TLS twich chat or some other hellhole.
On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote: Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments.
League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals.
Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying
I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world.
The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat.
SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL.
I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go.
Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much.
According to Liquipedia and a few other sources SC2 is actually up on LoL last year. While I don't doubt your maths ability, I trust Liquipedia on these matters above most other people. Also, I think that Riot bumping up LoL's prize pool artifcially (using their own money) isn't a good think, same with The International in Dota 2. However, that's a discussion for another topic ^^
I just added up all premier and major events in both SC2 wiki and LoL wiki. I suppose considering Team events aren't included in those, and LoL doesn't have any "team events" per say, that could overcome the 500k deficit, still pretty close either way. Riot is spending $5,000,000 on the 2013 season from the little research I did, which is impressive.
The 140k LoL viewers vs 8k WoL + 4k HotS viewers has to be considered too though when it comes to growth (who wants to become a pro gamer in a game that's at a steady decline?), and also the streaming revenue associated with that. $2-$3 per 1000 impressions, adblock included 60% impression rate means $1.2-$1.8 per user. Lets use numbers of 80k average viewers for LoL and 10k for SC2, and you have an average of $120 of revenue per commercial, using an average rate of 2 commercials per hour you get that League of Legends makes $240 an hour while SC2 makes $30 an hour.
That $210 per hour difference translates to about 1.8 million a year. Yes, during tournaments the numbers fluctuate, SC2 may gets something upwards to excess of 50k, but at the same time LoL gets 250k for it's tournaments too, again this is a rough approximation just to see the difference.
As to your second point: I'll keep it short and sweet, the way the international works, I don't think it's really good, it brings players in, but eh, just not effective at keeping them. Riot hosts not one tournament, but spreads them out, so in a way, they are the federation in their game that controls who's playing who etc, and that means no oversaturation and such.
Yeah I'm pretty sure both games were very close, but I remember SC2 just edging out LoL. I don't think I got my second point across that well, I meant that it might drive away potential tournament organisers that can't compete with the LCS in terms of prize pool. Anyway, as I said wrong place.
On March 02 2013 02:44 Zealously wrote: If you bring age into this argument as if age is actually significant, you're probably pretty stupid. But then again, this entire thread seems to be somewhat silly.
I'm making an analogy to a life cycle of a game to that of the average person can relate to by relating it to life. You can go on and indirectly call me stupid, but you haven't provided an argument as to why bringing age into this debate is stupid. I'm curious because I'm seen as relatively smart by my peers (and take it as you will I am a top 20 percentile engineering student, and currently enrolled in school of business too), so I would like to see where you're drawing that conclusion from.
On March 02 2013 02:44 Zealously wrote: If you bring age into this argument as if age is actually significant, you're probably pretty stupid. But then again, this entire thread seems to be somewhat silly.
I'm making an analogy to a life cycle of a game to that of the average person can relate to by relation it to life. You can go on and indirectly call me stupid, but you haven't provided an argument as to why bringing age into this debate is stupid. I'm curious because I'm seen as relatively smart by my peers (and take it as you will I am a top 20 percentile engineering student, and currently enrolled in school of business too), so I would like to see where you're drawing that conclusion from.
It's sad to see because IPL hosted events in a very professional way and was one media that was good exposure for the NA starcraft scene. I always though there was too much money involved in the sc2 world for the profitability. People also seem to see Hots as new game but it's really not the case. It's not going to boost the numbers by a significant margin for a long time. As soon as the korean market didn't took off we kinda knew it would never get near the BW phenomena. I'd say the starcraft scene will be around for a long time but will likely stay smaller than some people want.
On March 02 2013 03:00 scDeluX wrote: It's sad to see because IPL hosted events in a very professional way and was one media that was good exposure for the NA starcraft scene. I always though there was too much money involved in the sc2 world for the profitability. People also seem to see Hots as new game but it's really not the case. It's not going to boost the numbers by a significant margin for a long time. As soon as the korean market didn't took off we kinda knew it would never get near the BW phenomena. I'd say the starcraft scene will be around for a long time but will likely stay smaller than some people want.
On March 02 2013 03:00 scDeluX wrote: It's sad to see because IPL hosted events in a very professional way and was one media that was good exposure for the NA starcraft scene. I always though there was too much money involved in the sc2 world for the profitability. People also seem to see Hots as new game but it's really not the case. It's not going to boost the numbers by a significant margin for a long time. As soon as the korean market didn't took off we kinda knew it would never get near the BW phenomena. I'd say the starcraft scene will be around for a long time but will likely stay smaller than some people want.
f2p would save starcraft .
I think the custom games and social aspect of the game needs to be improved a little bit, and then that would potentially be true, but we know f2p isn't coming anytime soon regardless. SC2 is just too hardcore and frustrating for the average gamer. SC2 doesn't need to be huge to be good. Even in Broodwar, now that the scene is a lot smaller, there are some awesome games still happening, less money, but it's still the same thing, same fun.
On March 02 2013 03:00 scDeluX wrote: It's sad to see because IPL hosted events in a very professional way and was one media that was good exposure for the NA starcraft scene. I always though there was too much money involved in the sc2 world for the profitability. People also seem to see Hots as new game but it's really not the case. It's not going to boost the numbers by a significant margin for a long time. As soon as the korean market didn't took off we kinda knew it would never get near the BW phenomena. I'd say the starcraft scene will be around for a long time but will likely stay smaller than some people want.
f2p would save starcraft .
I think the custom games and social aspect of the game needs to be improved a little bit, and then that would potentially be true, but we know f2p isn't coming anytime soon regardless. SC2 is just too hardcore and frustrating for the average gamer. SC2 doesn't need to be huge to be good. Even in Broodwar, now that the scene is a lot smaller, there are some awesome games still happening, less money, but it's still the same thing, same fun.
F2P is also unproven for the long term and only became truely viable after LoL hit is big. Other games are doing it as well, with limited success. But it is a VERY differnet model to make games and a company cannot just switch over to that model on a dime. It takes long term planning and expericnce to do the process right, unlike what most people think.
Also, Blizzard shouln't chase Riot in the F2P model. The last ten years have been filled with companies chasing WoW and trying to make their own MMO with over 10 million users. All of those companies took it in the teeth because of those efforts. I would rather Blizzard stick to what they are good with and make boxed products. Maybe DLC later on and find some way to get good content without the 3 year gap. But there is no need for SC2 to go full F2P and I think the game might be worse for it.
On March 02 2013 02:44 Zealously wrote: If you bring age into this argument as if age is actually significant, you're probably pretty stupid. But then again, this entire thread seems to be somewhat silly.
I'm making an analogy to a life cycle of a game to that of the average person can relate to by relating it to life. You can go on and indirectly call me stupid, but you haven't provided an argument as to why bringing age into this debate is stupid. I'm curious because I'm seen as relatively smart by my peers (and take it as you will I am a top 20 percentile engineering student, and currently enrolled in school of business too), so I would like to see where you're drawing that conclusion from.
I don't do indirect, passive-aggressive posts. If I had any interest in arguing with you, I'd take it with you specifically. My post was aimed at anyone who thinks kollin's arguments become any less valid because he is 13 years old, or that teenagers cannot draw conclusions because they are teenagers. If you also believe this, then yes; I believe you are stupid because that makes little sense. But no matter, I think it is great that you actually attempt to bring facts into the discussion, because most people don't.
On March 02 2013 04:04 Taku wrote: Well, people have been saying that these kinds of business models aren't sustainable...
If done incorrectly and you lose your backing. Sundance has reported that MGL is doing fine and is profitable. NASL seems to be chugging alone and is a partner with Blizzard. Its just a hard fact that someone was going to get it wrong and IPL was the the one.
On March 02 2013 04:04 Taku wrote: Well, people have been saying that these kinds of business models aren't sustainable...
If done incorrectly and you lose your backing. Sundance has reported that MGL is doing fine and is profitable. NASL seems to be chugging alone and is a partner with Blizzard. Its just a hard fact that someone was going to get it wrong and IPL was the the one.
I wonder how much of a financial impact IGN's sponsorship of Team Reign had on their overall budget, and whether or not the team's failure is at all at play in IPL's present day difficulties.
It's a little strange that IPL is gonna cancel after the bookings and all, one can hope they're still discussing selling terms to someone so they cannot answer to inquiries.... still, i have to fear the worst, and it would be a giant pity
@Fiwikaki I must start saying that i've never seen so much disiformation in a single poster, and believe me i saw a ton of it.
You're trying to get on the good old "sc2 is dying" train, and your arguments are:
You're comparing the 12k viewers of Sc2 in a moment when there's pretty much nothing going on except the Xilence Cup, which with its 200 viewers is much much less than a good streamer, to a major LoL event that is still "only" taking in 100k viewers right now.... okay, i'm gonna do a post someday this year when WCS is up and LoL has nothing so i can declare LoL's death.
Then comes the "eeeh Sc2 is old" argument, so old that HotS is being launched in 11 days, and historically all of Blizzard's games have been selling at least on par, usually better after their expansions, instead of the first after-launch period (which is quite strange compared to the competition)
then you go on saying that LoL does 5x-20x viewers than Sc2, LOL*! Do you really believe that? please show me the 480k-1.800k a LoL tournament does compared to the usual 60-90k concurrent viewers of the major Sc2 events, thanks ^^
On March 02 2013 04:04 Taku wrote: Well, people have been saying that these kinds of business models aren't sustainable...
If done incorrectly and you lose your backing. Sundance has reported that MGL is doing fine and is profitable. NASL seems to be chugging alone and is a partner with Blizzard. Its just a hard fact that someone was going to get it wrong and IPL was the the one.
I wonder how much of a financial impact IGN's sponsorship of Team Reign had on their overall budget, and whether or not the team's failure is at all at play in IPL's present day difficulties.
I have no information to back this up, but from my outside view, IGN as a whole seemed really confused about what it was and some very poor decisions were made. They seemed very confused about video games, the internet and what their site did at a whole. I think being owned by Newscorp and the oversite that came with that hurt them, which is why they wanted to get away from that. Justing my personal view, but they have been a confused website for a while now.
Just seems so weird that they are still casting qualifiers for the event... It would be easy to stop casting shows and be silent but to continue running new content just seems counter-intuitive to this premise. They casted something like 8 qualifying matches a matter of hours before this post went up. I'm not going to feel one bit of pity for anyone that cancels rooms or flights only to find out the event is still on and I'm also starting to think IGN really doesn't need to comment on the words of a twitter guy and some bored people in a forum.
On March 02 2013 04:21 Jeffhesser wrote: Just seems so weird that they are still casting qualifiers for the event... It would be easy to stop casting shows and be silent but to continue running new content just seems counter-intuitive to this premise. They casted something like 8 qualifying matches a matter of hours before this post went up. I'm not going to feel one bit of pity for anyone that cancels rooms or flights only to find out the event is still on and I'm also starting to think IGN really doesn't need to comment on the words of a twitter guy and some bored people in a forum.
Eh, while you could be right about the whole "IGN shouldn't need to comment on rumors", the fact that rumors are both so insistent and that teams themselves are worried(read kennigit's words) -requires- an official notice, even if it's only a tweet or w/e,we could argue if it's either unprofessional or not, but even if a single player cancels it's flight due to this it's a clear loss for both the event and the viewership of it, a damage that would've been avoided with a single, laconic official notice.... really, what do you lose in making a "all is still fine, see you in vegas" tweet or something?
Let's just consider the possible assumptions that IPL is depended on a buyer to run their league event, and that they are or at some point was close of finding a buyer, as true statements.
Now, since IPL/IGN just moments ago openly told Gamespot that they decline/ choose not to comment on the rumor it's now relatively safe, based on the above assumptions, to say that they are in the process of nearly finding a potential buyer and hope to seal the deal before the IPL tournament goes live.
If they already had a buyer then there would be no reason to not comment on it, and If no buyer was actually present then there would be no meaning in prolonging the situation and just officially cancel it or postpone it.
I just really want to hear something from IGN/IPL, and preferably something with some reasoning behind it instead of just confirmation of the confirmation of the rumors.
I don't believe there is anyway in hell it would cost them less to cancel the event than to host it. Plenty of people made plans in advance, flights hotels etc. Cancelling an event on such short notice ( which hasn't even came yet officially ) would leave IPL liable for all the hotels and flights cancellation fees that their customers will be stuck with.
On March 02 2013 04:59 kukarachaa wrote: I don't believe there is anyway in hell it would cost them less to cancel the event than to host it. Plenty of people made plans in advance, flights hotels etc. Cancelling an event on such short notice ( which hasn't even came yet officially ) would leave IPL liable for all the hotels and flights cancellation fees that their customers will be stuck with.
Morally, maybe. Legally? I would at the very least question that claim, if that's what you're getting at.
On March 02 2013 04:59 kukarachaa wrote: I don't believe there is anyway in hell it would cost them less to cancel the event than to host it. Plenty of people made plans in advance, flights hotels etc. Cancelling an event on such short notice ( which hasn't even came yet officially ) would leave IPL liable for all the hotels and flights cancellation fees that their customers will be stuck with.
Why on earth would they cancel the event if it costs them more? Even with all those fees (and how many people would actually try to get that money from IGN?), they will save money.
This is such a shame. I was really looking forward to the fact that lesser known pro's could have made a name for themselves in the smaller HOTS only tournament. =(
I knew that IGN was going down the shitter with them selling off things like GameSpy and the like, but I expected at least one more IPL out of them. No matter what it was; an unsustainable format, a lack of financing or the rise of LoL, no one is happy with this decision. I'm no expert on business, but there clearly was an issue with the model IPL used, and if there is any lesson from this, IPL showed it. Sad to see this happen to the customers, the players and the employees at IPL.
We really need an official word cause if this really is canceled, the Cosmo hasn't recieved word of it either:
...The Cosmopolitan, which is still accepting purchases for spectator and VIP tickets, told Polygon that the tournament has not been canceled by event organizers....
One would think IGN wouldnt let this just sit out there if there wasnt anything to it. This might be only type of talk that you dont want for your event so squashing a rumor like this would be companies top priority if there was nothing to it.
IPLRobin is making some commentary on twitter that is miles away from official but certainly pointing towards him being absent from Vegas and insinuating that some cheering up is indeed in order.
On March 02 2013 05:54 Jeffhesser wrote: IPLRobin is making some commentary on twitter that is miles away from official but certainly pointing towards him being absent from Vegas and insinuating that some cheering up is indeed in order.
Can you link? Having trouble finding anything. Unless you mean the Brazilian buffet thing.
On March 02 2013 04:12 Skirmjan wrote: It's a little strange that IPL is gonna cancel after the bookings and all, one can hope they're still discussing selling terms to someone so they cannot answer to inquiries.... still, i have to fear the worst, and it would be a giant pity
@Fiwikaki I must start saying that i've never seen so much disiformation in a single poster, and believe me i saw a ton of it.
You're trying to get on the good old "sc2 is dying" train, and your arguments are:
You're comparing the 12k viewers of Sc2 in a moment when there's pretty much nothing going on except the Xilence Cup, which with its 200 viewers is much much less than a good streamer, to a major LoL event that is still "only" taking in 100k viewers right now.... okay, i'm gonna do a post someday this year when WCS is up and LoL has nothing so i can declare LoL's death.
Then comes the "eeeh Sc2 is old" argument, so old that HotS is being launched in 11 days, and historically all of Blizzard's games have been selling at least on par, usually better after their expansions, instead of the first after-launch period (which is quite strange compared to the competition)
then you go on saying that LoL does 5x-20x viewers than Sc2, LOL*! Do you really believe that? please show me the 480k-1.800k a LoL tournament does compared to the usual 60-90k concurrent viewers of the major Sc2 events, thanks ^^
On March 02 2013 05:54 Jeffhesser wrote: IPLRobin is making some commentary on twitter that is miles away from official but certainly pointing towards him being absent from Vegas and insinuating that some cheering up is indeed in order.
Can you link? Having trouble finding anything. Unless you mean the Brazilian buffet thing.
As I said, it's far from official but responses to the MLG account suggesting they run a show in Vegas to fill a void suggesting a good place to eat seems to say a lot without saying anything at all... purely speculating though.
On March 02 2013 05:54 Jeffhesser wrote: IPLRobin is making some commentary on twitter that is miles away from official but certainly pointing towards him being absent from Vegas and insinuating that some cheering up is indeed in order.
Can you link? Having trouble finding anything. Unless you mean the Brazilian buffet thing.
As I said, it's far from official but responses to the MLG account suggesting they run a show in Vegas to fill a void suggesting a good place to eat seems to say a lot without saying anything at all... purely speculating though.
Ah okay. It's a shame a period at the end of a sentence makes it look depressing. It's hard to tell.
Ok IGN, you better have an announcement at the end of the day. Stop giving people false hope that it might still happen. The longer you wait, the more money they lose.
On March 02 2013 05:55 TheFish7 wrote: If I was the Cosmopolitan I'd be pretty pissed off, not having those spectators will cost them casino and drink money
YOu don't just book a place like that for free. You usually have some type of down-payment or deposit in case shit like this happens.
I wouldn't be surprised if they canned it, though doing so with the event nearing would obviously suck for people planning to go to it.
We all know Ziff bought up IGN from news corp recently an announced major lay offs as well as closing sites like 1up.
Fun fact Ziff Davis was purchased by J2 Global ( http://www.j2global.com ) in november of 2012 because essentially back in 2008 Ziff has nearly gone completely bankrupt ( filled chapter 11) so it's unsurprising they sold the company off to J2.
J2 Global's background is largely in providing internet services through 2 other companies.
With all these changes I wouldn't be surprised if a largely money losing endeavor like the IPL could potentially get nixed all together. If IPL6 were to in fact be cancelled I would nearly 100% expect IPL to be canned entirely or reduced to the point it mine as well not exist.
Okay, so we now have two sources. Slasher (calling it Gamespot doesn't make it not Slasher, check that byline) and SirScoots. Plus rumor from this week's State of the Game (although, mostly that was sourced to Scoots). However, they both cite multiple sources close to the situation. -_-'
Those sources have to be right, though, because otherwise I'd be expecting something out of IPL. I mean, the Gamespot article in particular would be ripe for a lawsuit (possibility of causing material harm to IPL in the form of cancellations, IF the event were not cancelled) even if Scoots might be clear. There's a lot of crap you can give Slasher, but I don't think he or his editors would potentially risk upsetting the Cosmopolitan, at the least.
But they are still airing the qualifiers they played. Or were. They really need to get things figured out before people show up to check in and get very very upset. (Okay, even if IPL6 were canceled, if I had a room and flight booked to Vegas I'd still go. Because there's SOMETHING to do there, and getting your money back from an airline is a pain.) This is not the kind of event you just put a sign on the door to the ballroom saying "Sorry!" for - Kevin Knocke I'm sure will say something as soon as humanly possible but this may be J2 stepping on ZD stepping on IGN
Edit: Searching around the IGN/IPL site, still nothing. It would be a damn shame if they can't find a buyer and just toss IPL just as it may be starting a turn towards profitability. To say nothing of how much it would suck for Kibbelz, Robin, Kevin, Frank, etc.
On March 02 2013 06:56 felisconcolori wrote: Okay, so we now have two sources. Slasher (calling it Gamespot doesn't make it not Slasher, check that byline) and SirScoots. Plus rumor from this week's State of the Game (although, mostly that was sourced to Scoots). However, they both cite multiple sources close to the situation. -_-'
There's also Artosis saying on SotG that he's heard it from multiple sources, and Kennigit saying much the same on reddit.
On March 02 2013 09:15 Ry2D2 wrote: damn shame. This hurts eSports too wtf how inconsiderate. They ought to at least host the event and make their profit, however marginal it may be.
On March 02 2013 09:15 Ry2D2 wrote: damn shame. This hurts eSports too wtf how inconsiderate. They ought to at least host the event and make their profit, however marginal it may be.
On March 02 2013 09:15 Ry2D2 wrote: damn shame. This hurts eSports too wtf how inconsiderate. They ought to at least host the event and make their profit, however marginal it may be.
On March 02 2013 09:15 Ry2D2 wrote: damn shame. This hurts eSports too wtf how inconsiderate. They ought to at least host the event and make their profit, however marginal it may be.
On March 02 2013 09:15 Ry2D2 wrote: damn shame. This hurts eSports too wtf how inconsiderate. They ought to at least host the event and make their profit, however marginal it may be.
What profit?
The profit outsiders think occurs
That implies they think
Nah, they just like to get intelligent posters like Anomaly banned.
This was posted in the LoL thread but it impacts Sc2 aswell so just reposting it here.
On March 02 2013 07:41 nojitosunrise wrote: So..redbeard just about confirms that IPL6 is canceled. Riot might host a viewing party in vegas and is planning on running a make up tournament for the challenger tier times that qualified for IPL6
We've been thinking about this as well, it's a great idea. We are looking into possibly renting out some space at the Cosmo and throwing a viewing party for all of our awesome fans to watch the LCS games that will now be played at our studio in LA. Details TBC shortly. By the way, we will also be doing a makeup tournament for the challenger teams that qualified for IPL 6, and hosting at least some of the matches at the LCS studio a few weeks later.
I'm not sure if i'm missing something here. So IPL cancels their event most likely due to the event being scheduled to make a loss. I wonder if it would be better for IGN in the long run to absorb the loss of the IPL event, in order to keep their brand more reputable. I can't imagine everyone involved with IPL is going to look favourably upon IGN. There are also outsiders that are not attending the event, who will hear of this news through some medium and may possibly reduce their opinion of IGN as a brand as well.
I guess after the parent company of IGN has done all their calculations with all the already sunk costs and reduced brand strength that they still see it as a cheaper business decision at the end of the day.
You know, something doesn't sit right with me here.
Where are the rumors coming from? IGN isn't saying anything, so it's not confirmed by them. In the meantime, MLG is trying a PR move to siphon business from IGN. Also, community profiles who have been known to work with competitors of IPL are pushing up on IPL's death. Community profiles are indirectly and directly urging people to change their reservations.
Maybe it's just my paranoia going off, but if this was just an attempt at killing IPL to reduce competitors, I'm guessing it's already done quite a lot of damage - both to IGNs name and the IPL brand, as well as potential viewership, venue ticket sales and competitor cancellations.
Of course, these are long-standing sources in the community, so them doing something like that for their own advancement is unimaginable. That said, however - as long as IGN doesn't reveal any news, remember that all the other noise are just rumors.
I can't believe that IPL hasn't said anything. I mean its understandable they're not able to release all info but I haven't seen any comments from their social media even acknowledging this "reported news." I hope they're about to finalize a deal that can allow IPL6 to happen but the longer the public sits in the dark, the more IPL6 will inevitably flop just from public views.
On March 02 2013 10:29 plated.rawr wrote: You know, something doesn't sit right with me here.
Where are the rumors coming from? IGN isn't saying anything, so it's not confirmed by them. In the meantime, MLG is trying a PR move to siphon business from IGN. Also, community profiles who have been known to work with competitors of IPL are pushing up on IPL's death. Community profiles are indirectly and directly urging people to change their reservations.
Maybe it's just my paranoia going off, but if this was just an attempt at killing IPL to reduce competitors, I'm guessing it's already done quite a lot of damage - both to IGNs name and the IPL brand, as well as potential viewership, venue ticket sales and competitor cancellations.
Of course, these are long-standing sources in the community, so them doing something like that for their own advancement is unimaginable. That said, however - as long as IGN doesn't reveal any news, remember that all the other noise are just rumors.
If they were just rumors, would you think for just one second that IGN would not immediately come out and say "It's all bullshit, IPL is happening!"? Why isn't IPL vehemently denying these claims if there's even a tiny doubt that they might be completely untrue?
On March 02 2013 10:29 plated.rawr wrote: You know, something doesn't sit right with me here.
Where are the rumors coming from? IGN isn't saying anything, so it's not confirmed by them. In the meantime, MLG is trying a PR move to siphon business from IGN. Also, community profiles who have been known to work with competitors of IPL are pushing up on IPL's death. Community profiles are indirectly and directly urging people to change their reservations.
Maybe it's just my paranoia going off, but if this was just an attempt at killing IPL to reduce competitors, I'm guessing it's already done quite a lot of damage - both to IGNs name and the IPL brand, as well as potential viewership, venue ticket sales and competitor cancellations.
Of course, these are long-standing sources in the community, so them doing something like that for their own advancement is unimaginable. That said, however - as long as IGN doesn't reveal any news, remember that all the other noise are just rumors.
yeah and these rumors have no truth to them and IPL is just letting everyone say all this because...? If it wasn't true, IPL would have come out yesterday and assured everyone the event is still happening.
Sponsors of the IGN ProLeague event have told GameSpot the products they sent over for sponsorship are being returned to them. Korean-based league OnGameNet said yesterday that the IPL6 League of Legends Korean qualifiers have been canceled due to change in management policies and financial difficulties.
but yeah, this is all MLG just trying to kill off IPL...
On March 02 2013 10:29 plated.rawr wrote: You know, something doesn't sit right with me here.
Where are the rumors coming from? IGN isn't saying anything, so it's not confirmed by them. In the meantime, MLG is trying a PR move to siphon business from IGN. Also, community profiles who have been known to work with competitors of IPL are pushing up on IPL's death. Community profiles are indirectly and directly urging people to change their reservations.
Maybe it's just my paranoia going off, but if this was just an attempt at killing IPL to reduce competitors, I'm guessing it's already done quite a lot of damage - both to IGNs name and the IPL brand, as well as potential viewership, venue ticket sales and competitor cancellations.
Of course, these are long-standing sources in the community, so them doing something like that for their own advancement is unimaginable. That said, however - as long as IGN doesn't reveal any news, remember that all the other noise are just rumors.
If they were just rumors, would you think for just one second that IGN would not immediately come out and say "It's all bullshit, IPL is happening!"? Why isn't IPL vehemently denying these claims if there's even a tiny doubt that they might be completely untrue?
I have to agree... The fact they haven't said anything yet completely confirms to me that there will be no IPL6 (or IGN doesn't know if there will be). I'm from Arizona, so it sucks we're losing the only SC2 event that's anywhere close to us
On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote: Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments.
League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals.
Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying
I just thought this post went unaddressed, I think its very hypocritical for Blizzard to act like they are about eSports and then add nothing too it. What the heck Blizz, can't ya at least chip in some prize money, we have companies dyin here and so couldn't you all chip in a couple million? How about a The International for SC2 with a million prize pool sponsored by you guys? That would be huge hype!
This sounds bad... but honestly I am happy some are going under, I love watching games but the amount was crazy, also I felt confused about what was happening, and tournaments are horrible at explaining the meaning of their games to people.
My dream that IGN going under is now we can institute a regular season and playoff system run by MLG, GSL and NASL and Dreamhack. MLG would be a invitational open like USOpen in Golf, GSL for Koreans, NASL NA players only, Dreamhack for European Players. At the end is the top 4 from each making a Sweet 16 players at Blizzard Cup for 1,000,000 dollars.
Also Iron Squid would be in there somewhere, more like a All-Star game in NBA where the best come around, extremely comedic, great music, fun times not related to regular season and purely for fun competition.
This is purely selfish but I would love a 2v2 or FFA league too those are hilarious.
If we organized SC2 people would love to follow it like a sport. Also if they made a NA league people would start to support the NA scene a lot more. Please think about it NASL.SC2 viewer numbers would grow because it would stop being a thing you do to kill time and be more like a pasttime, following your best NA players to Blizzard Cup would be a real thing people do and people would love the first chance to see Korea vs. Euro and their would be some good hype as they haven't played each other for a long year of HotS rather than every week.
On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote: Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments.
League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals.
Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying
I just thought this post went unaddressed, I think its very hypocritical for Blizzard to act like they are about eSports and then add nothing too it. What the heck Blizz, can't ya at least chip in some prize money, we have companies dyin here and so couldn't you all chip in a couple million? How about a The International for SC2 with a million prize pool sponsored by you guys? That would be huge hype!
This sounds bad... but honestly I am happy some are going under, I love watching games but the amount was crazy, also I felt confused about what was happening, and tournaments are horrible at explaining the meaning of their games to people.
My dream that IGN going under is now we can institute a regular season and playoff system run by MLG, GSL and NASL and Dreamhack. MLG would be a invitational open like USOpen in Golf, GSL for Koreans, NASL NA players only, Dreamhack for European Players. At the end is the top 4 from each making a Sweet 16 players at Blizzard Cup for 1,000,000 dollars.
Also Iron Squid would be in there somewhere, more like a All-Star game in NBA where the best come around, extremely comedic, great music, fun times not related to regular season and purely for fun competition.
This is purely selfish but I would love a 2v2 or FFA league too those are hilarious.
If we organized SC2 people would love to follow it like a sport. Also if they made a NA league people would start to support the NA scene a lot more. Please think about it NASL.SC2 viewer numbers would grow because it would stop being a thing you do to kill time and be more like a pasttime, following your best NA players to Blizzard Cup would be a real thing people do and people would love the first chance to see Korea vs. Euro and their would be some good hype as they haven't played each other for a long year of HotS rather than every week.
Unfortunately, if this continues for too long, without proper official word, IGN, might, if not already, be forced to cancel the event due to cancellations, teams players and spectators pulling etc.
It wouldn't be the first time a company went under due to a single peice of untrue press directing affecting sales and business.
On March 02 2013 07:41 nojitosunrise wrote: So..redbeard just about confirms that IPL6 is canceled. Riot might host a viewing party in vegas and is planning on running a make up tournament for the challenger tier times that qualified for IPL6
We've been thinking about this as well, it's a great idea. We are looking into possibly renting out some space at the Cosmo and throwing a viewing party for all of our awesome fans to watch the LCS games that will now be played at our studio in LA. Details TBC shortly. By the way, we will also be doing a makeup tournament for the challenger teams that qualified for IPL 6, and hosting at least some of the matches at the LCS studio a few weeks later.
This is pretty much confirmation and the final nail in the coffin. Riot just stated the lcs games will now be played at their studio. Riot would know if ipl 6 was canceled or not, so they confirmed it without explicitly stating ipl 6 is canceled as they're leaving that up to IPL to announce themselves I suppose.
This looks pretty grim for IPL6 happening. This is gonna really take a hit on IPLs worth if a major event ends up being canceled at the last minute. Hopefully IPL doesn't have to shutdown altogether and only has to scale down. The fact that they're being shopped around means the owners of IGN/IPL definitely don't want this event to happen. I'm not sure if this is best way to go about it though, since your trying to sell IPL forcing the organization to cancel a major event without much notice will only plunge IPL into a hole that it might not recover from.
On March 02 2013 12:19 Albinoswordfish wrote: This looks pretty grim for IPL6 happening. This is gonna really take a hit on IPLs worth if a major event ends up being canceled at the last minute. Hopefully IPL doesn't have to shutdown altogether and only has to scale down. The fact that they're being shopped around means the owners of IGN/IPL definitely don't want this event to happen. I'm not sure if this is best way to go about it though, since your trying to sell IPL forcing the organization to cancel a major event without much notice will only plunge IPL into a hole that it might not recover from.
I really hope IPL isn't dead.
If they do end up cancelling I'd say IPL is pretty much dead. I can't see any organizations being very keen on sending their players to an tournament organizer who has completely cancelled an event with such short notice. At best organizations would be very hesitant of sending their players, at worst they would straight up boycott them. Lot of time, money and effort has probably gone into the planning of the event for the teams, all of which would go down the drain with very short notice.
Same goes for viewers. There's probably quite few people who already set plans for the event. Booked flights, hotels, rescheduled things and all that sort of stuff that goes into attending an event. All of it for nothing, some of it probably not refundable.
So if they do end up cancelling they can hardly expect any support from teams or viewers if they choose to organize another event. I'd be very surprised if the IPL management thought anything else. I'm pretty sure they realize that cancelling the event at this point is the death of IPL, regardless of whether they run another event or not.
So one of the less well run tournaments in an oversaturated market is failing. I fail to see what the news is here. SC2 is going to be better for this.
On March 02 2013 13:38 Cainam wrote: So one of the less well run tournaments in an oversaturated market is failing. I fail to see what the news is here. SC2 is going to be better for this.
On March 02 2013 12:19 Albinoswordfish wrote: This looks pretty grim for IPL6 happening. This is gonna really take a hit on IPLs worth if a major event ends up being canceled at the last minute. Hopefully IPL doesn't have to shutdown altogether and only has to scale down. The fact that they're being shopped around means the owners of IGN/IPL definitely don't want this event to happen. I'm not sure if this is best way to go about it though, since your trying to sell IPL forcing the organization to cancel a major event without much notice will only plunge IPL into a hole that it might not recover from.
I really hope IPL isn't dead.
If they do end up cancelling I'd say IPL is pretty much dead. I can't see any organizations being very keen on sending their players to an tournament organizer who has completely cancelled an event with such short notice. At best organizations would be very hesitant of sending their players, at worst they would straight up boycott them. Lot of time, money and effort has probably gone into the planning of the event for the teams, all of which would go down the drain with very short notice.
Same goes for viewers. There's probably quite few people who already set plans for the event. Booked flights, hotels, rescheduled things and all that sort of stuff that goes into attending an event. All of it for nothing, some of it probably not refundable.
So if they do end up cancelling they can hardly expect any support from teams or viewers if they choose to organize another event. I'd be very surprised if the IPL management thought anything else. I'm pretty sure they realize that cancelling the event at this point is the death of IPL, regardless of whether they run another event or not.
what do you expect them to do? ign is having serious reorgiization and is trying to get rid of ipl, no reason for them to support something there trying to get rid off cause it keeps losing them money. and with no financial support i dont see how ipl is expected to put the event on.yes it sucks but its really the only option they had.
also no one holds it against quantic that they had to temporarily disband because of money problems. also most likely the players probably knew this was probably going to happen ahead of time and ipl was waiting till the last minute thinking they might get a miracle.
On March 02 2013 13:40 opterown wrote: IPL was pretty damn prestigious
For some reason people have incredibly short memories. Let's ignore the fact that IPL5 was one of the best events Starcraft 2 has ever seen, probably THE best event in the US. Let's also ignore how successful a model fightclub and IPTL are and how much of a downer to the scene it would be without them. Why? Because then we can sound smart and claim natural selection and an understanding of the how business works even though we've never participated in it in any capacity! That's the internet in a nutshell.
On March 02 2013 13:38 Cainam wrote: So one of the less well run tournaments in an oversaturated market is failing. I fail to see what the news is here. SC2 is going to be better for this.
I can't believe you said this and were serious about it. IPL5 for example was imo one of the best tournaments with the production and everything. IPTL is awesome as well and honestly I feel like IPL events are better then MLG events to be blunt.
On March 02 2013 13:38 Cainam wrote: So one of the less well run tournaments in an oversaturated market is failing. I fail to see what the news is here. SC2 is going to be better for this.
I can't believe you said this and were serious about it. IPL5 for example was imo one of the best tournaments with the production and everything. IPTL is awesome as well and honestly I feel like IPL events are better then MLG events to be blunt.
This is in no way a good thing at all -_-.
agreed, and now there wont be a major open sign up tournament or qualifiers for along time....
On March 02 2013 12:19 Albinoswordfish wrote: This looks pretty grim for IPL6 happening. This is gonna really take a hit on IPLs worth if a major event ends up being canceled at the last minute. Hopefully IPL doesn't have to shutdown altogether and only has to scale down. The fact that they're being shopped around means the owners of IGN/IPL definitely don't want this event to happen. I'm not sure if this is best way to go about it though, since your trying to sell IPL forcing the organization to cancel a major event without much notice will only plunge IPL into a hole that it might not recover from.
I really hope IPL isn't dead.
If they do end up cancelling I'd say IPL is pretty much dead. I can't see any organizations being very keen on sending their players to an tournament organizer who has completely cancelled an event with such short notice. At best organizations would be very hesitant of sending their players, at worst they would straight up boycott them. Lot of time, money and effort has probably gone into the planning of the event for the teams, all of which would go down the drain with very short notice.
Same goes for viewers. There's probably quite few people who already set plans for the event. Booked flights, hotels, rescheduled things and all that sort of stuff that goes into attending an event. All of it for nothing, some of it probably not refundable.
So if they do end up cancelling they can hardly expect any support from teams or viewers if they choose to organize another event. I'd be very surprised if the IPL management thought anything else. I'm pretty sure they realize that cancelling the event at this point is the death of IPL, regardless of whether they run another event or not.
what do you expect them to do? ign is having serious reorgiization and is trying to get rid of ipl, no reason for them to support something there trying to get rid off cause it keeps losing them money. and with no financial support i dont see how ipl is expected to put the event on.yes it sucks but its really the only option they had.
also no one holds it against quantic that they had to temporarily disband because of money problems. also most likely the players probably knew this was probably going to happen ahead of time and ipl was waiting till the last minute thinking they might get a miracle.
I'm sure they are doing their best and that the people at IPL couldn't have done much to deal with this. That still doesn't change what seems to be happening, which is going to leave a huge black mark on the brand. Them trying hard and doing their best and having the best of intentions doesn't change that. They still tried to put on a huge event that involved a lot of people, and seemingly failed to do so. Even if the people at IPL couldn't have done anything to change it it was still their tournament, their responsibility and thus people are going to hold them accountable.
And as far as comparing this to Quantic there are a few things worth pointing out. The first one is scale. While I'm sure Quantic temporarily disbanding involved quite a few people and caused those people quite a headache I'm willing to bet that it effected far less people than this. This directly involves multiple teams, many players as well as many fans. You also say that no one holds what happened against Quantic, but I'd honestly be surprised if most players who are in a position to sign with them did not think twice about it due to their financial history.
On March 02 2013 13:40 opterown wrote: IPL was pretty damn prestigious
For some reason people have incredibly short memories. Let's ignore the fact that IPL5 was one of the best events Starcraft 2 has ever seen, probably THE best event in the US. Let's also ignore how successful a model fightclub and IPTL are and how much of a downer to the scene it would be without them. Why? Because then we can sound smart and claim natural selection and an understanding of the how business works even though we've never participated in it in any capacity! That's the internet in a nutshell.
Earlier in the thread I quoted Adam Savage and Socrates about how they where useless until they realized they knew nothing. The Internet and TL needs a healthy dose of that.
On March 02 2013 13:40 opterown wrote: IPL was pretty damn prestigious
For some reason people have incredibly short memories. Let's ignore the fact that IPL5 was one of the best events Starcraft 2 has ever seen, probably THE best event in the US. Let's also ignore how successful a model fightclub and IPTL are and how much of a downer to the scene it would be without them. Why? Because then we can sound smart and claim natural selection and an understanding of the how business works even though we've never participated in it in any capacity! That's the internet in a nutshell.
Earlier in the thread I quoted Adam Savage and Socrates about how they where useless until they realized they knew nothing. The Internet and TL needs a healthy dose of that.
Yes, people should know better than to talk like they know everything, because it really annoys those of us who actually does.
On March 02 2013 13:38 Cainam wrote: So one of the less well run tournaments in an oversaturated market is failing. I fail to see what the news is here. SC2 is going to be better for this.
Except for the fact that a lot of teams and players are out a ton of money. Flight cancellation fees (if you're lucky, otherwise a wasted flight), hotel cancellation fees, other travel arrangements, etc. It adds up pretty quick.
On March 02 2013 13:40 opterown wrote: IPL was pretty damn prestigious
For some reason people have incredibly short memories. Let's ignore the fact that IPL5 was one of the best events Starcraft 2 has ever seen, probably THE best event in the US. Let's also ignore how successful a model fightclub and IPTL are and how much of a downer to the scene it would be without them. Why? Because then we can sound smart and claim natural selection and an understanding of the how business works even though we've never participated in it in any capacity! That's the internet in a nutshell.
I think you're giving the internet too much credit. I believe the internet really might be that old experiment about the 1000 monkeys locked in a room with 1000 typewriters.
Except with more monkeys, better typewriters, and no lights, water, or food. But occasionally, an orangutan is thrown in for fun.
I mean, IPL as a league had problems at some of their events. But they had damn good events, their online content is pretty decent (and runs damn near 24/7 so there's always something to watch and ad revenue), and they have a good partnership with Gom AND OGN. They were turning a corner and accelerating.
this is bad....it has to be! not a good year for esports so far =/....I was expecting NASL to be doing this after their 1st 2 season was a bit lack luster... and plus with a new expansion coming out you would think it would get people more amped about it even though It was Wings. the tourney season is about to start and this happens... not good
After Ziff' Davis announcement, I did not think it was this bad. I enjoy watching the IPL's on twitch. Robin said in chat it was too expensive to drive to work and to use transit. I feel this is all true and GG for one of my favorite streams and lineups.
Edit: I was hoping IGNproleague would hit 100M viewers on twitch
On March 02 2013 13:38 Cainam wrote: So one of the less well run tournaments in an oversaturated market is failing. I fail to see what the news is here. SC2 is going to be better for this.
I can't believe you said this and were serious about it. IPL5 for example was imo one of the best tournaments with the production and everything. IPTL is awesome as well and honestly I feel like IPL events are better then MLG events to be blunt.
This is in no way a good thing at all -_-.
agreed, and now there wont be a major open sign up tournament or qualifiers for along time....
You know how some people write up and angry email without sending it, just to vent? I've done that a dozen things from just the last 3 pages.. I feel like the forum should have posting requirements of taking half a dozen business classes, because of the amount of stupidity and lack of understanding people have of anything, but insist on talking as if they're experts. I'm in my 3rd year of college for accounting, no experience mind you, so I'm a complete noob, but I still understand a lot more than a lot of people that post nonesense in these money-related discussions
On March 02 2013 13:38 Cainam wrote: So one of the less well run tournaments in an oversaturated market is failing. I fail to see what the news is here. SC2 is going to be better for this.
On March 02 2013 15:51 Geos13 wrote: I'm surprised we didn't see an announcement from IPL today. The cat is kinda out of the bag so I'm not really sure why they would delay it any longer?
They are probably doing whatever they can to salvage it. Canceling an event is one thing, but if you have to cancel an event knowing that your company has to be bought by another party to survive means that they need to save their image at almost any cost. It is basically an elimination round and they dont want to gg out just yet.
IGN probably still does not have a buyer for IPL or else we'd know and either that company would say they cannot afford to host ipl6 or that ipl6 is being scaled down.
New IGN proabaly isn't willing to pay the bills for an IPL6 otherwise this whole situation would have been avoided.
If IGN cant find a buyer for IPL, it would seem IPL6 just isn't going to happen, in which case it really hurts IPL's selling potential.
Best case at this point would be that they dont make any official announcement until they find a buyer and can say "hey we got a buyer and are pushing IPL6 back a few months."
If they cant find a buyer and have to make that announcement canceling IPL6 it hurts their ability to find a buyer. In fact the longer this drags on, the more it hurts their ability to find a buyer at all, or at least a buyer with the resources they'd like.
I wouldn't find Rod's (Slasher) source any credible than some other e-sports fan... I mean ya he's a "professional" reporter but still, after all this time, his sources are iffy and ambiguous.
I remember when IPL did it's first tournament, and everyone was so happy that this was going to blow everything out of the water. This makes me very sad to see.
On March 02 2013 16:35 Advantageous wrote: I wouldn't find Rod's (Slasher) source any credible than some other e-sports fan... I mean ya he's a "professional" reporter but still, after all this time, his sources are iffy and ambiguous.
You'd have to be completely blind to not believe him this time. IPL's silence speaks volumes and the longer they wait the more angry I get.
On March 02 2013 16:35 Advantageous wrote: I wouldn't find Rod's (Slasher) source any credible than some other e-sports fan... I mean ya he's a "professional" reporter but still, after all this time, his sources are iffy and ambiguous.
You'd have to be completely blind to not believe him this time. IPL's silence speaks volumes and the longer they wait the more angry I get.
Imagine if you were IPL, trying to save an event, and people leak/report this information...how likely are your chances now?
On March 02 2013 16:35 Advantageous wrote: I wouldn't find Rod's (Slasher) source any credible than some other e-sports fan... I mean ya he's a "professional" reporter but still, after all this time, his sources are iffy and ambiguous.
You'd have to be completely blind to not believe him this time. IPL's silence speaks volumes and the longer they wait the more angry I get.
Imagine if you were IPL, trying to save an event, and people leak/report this information...how likely are your chances now?
The chances of saving it? No difference. The only logical conclusion over what's happening now is that IPL is trying to find a buyer to save the event. Whether they find a buyer or not is probably not affected by this.
On March 02 2013 16:35 Advantageous wrote: I wouldn't find Rod's (Slasher) source any credible than some other e-sports fan... I mean ya he's a "professional" reporter but still, after all this time, his sources are iffy and ambiguous.
His sources are solid. and he even named sources this time (as much as he could at least)
I wish blizzard would be taking action and tried to somehow get it/save it. I see Blizzard getting slowly more involved in the community but Riot for example does in my opinion way better job at this.
I wish Blizzard tried to save it, but they probably aren't. This just helps there making rocks image. Hopefully they (IGN/IPL) are able to to save the event .
On March 02 2013 16:35 Advantageous wrote: I wouldn't find Rod's (Slasher) source any credible than some other e-sports fan... I mean ya he's a "professional" reporter but still, after all this time, his sources are iffy and ambiguous.
You'd have to be completely blind to not believe him this time. IPL's silence speaks volumes and the longer they wait the more angry I get.
Imagine if you were IPL, trying to save an event, and people leak/report this information...how likely are your chances now?
If IPL is trying to save the event, it's still pretty irresponsible of them to not release a statement. People are making travel plans, using vacation time and reserving flight / hotels. For the host to be pretending nothing is wrong when there is significant risk with the event is very selfish.
On March 02 2013 16:35 Advantageous wrote: I wouldn't find Rod's (Slasher) source any credible than some other e-sports fan... I mean ya he's a "professional" reporter but still, after all this time, his sources are iffy and ambiguous.
You'd have to be completely blind to not believe him this time. IPL's silence speaks volumes and the longer they wait the more angry I get.
Imagine if you were IPL, trying to save an event, and people leak/report this information...how likely are your chances now?
If IPL is trying to save the event, it's still pretty irresponsible of them to not release a statement. People are making travel plans, using vacation time and reserving flight / hotels. For the host to be pretending nothing is wrong when there is significant risk with the event is very selfish.
They're likely not releasing a statement because they don't know. Pretending nothing is wrong would be releasing a statement that says IPL6 is still on. But they're not going to release a "we're not sure what's happening" statement.
On March 02 2013 16:35 Advantageous wrote: I wouldn't find Rod's (Slasher) source any credible than some other e-sports fan... I mean ya he's a "professional" reporter but still, after all this time, his sources are iffy and ambiguous.
You'd have to be completely blind to not believe him this time. IPL's silence speaks volumes and the longer they wait the more angry I get.
Imagine if you were IPL, trying to save an event, and people leak/report this information...how likely are your chances now?
If IPL is trying to save the event, it's still pretty irresponsible of them to not release a statement. People are making travel plans, using vacation time and reserving flight / hotels. For the host to be pretending nothing is wrong when there is significant risk with the event is very selfish.
"Hey guys its your friends from IPL. We aren't sure whether or not this event is still going to happen so we figured we would make an announcement stating that we aren't sure whether or not this even it still going to happen."
See? Unless they know for sure making a statement is just pointless. Any with such a huge event if there's even a sliver of a chance of still making it happen that's likely what they are working on day and night. It blows for people who are spending lots of cash to go but they can either come out and say "yeah sorry you just lost all your money" or they can say nothing and keep trying to make it work
In short: -The Cosmopolitan still has not recieved word from IPL that the event is canceled (last email recieved from IPL was 7am yesterday (march 1)) -If you want to buy tickets and the event is canceled the Cosmopolitan is the one issuing refunds. (you are safe to buy tickets to the event, hotels/flights are a different issue) -The Cosmo knows about as much as we do :\
On March 03 2013 00:13 NerdFace wrote: I wish blizzard would be taking action and tried to somehow get it/save it. I see Blizzard getting slowly more involved in the community but Riot for example does in my opinion way better job at this.
I wish Blizzard tried to save it, but they probably aren't. This just helps there making rocks image. Hopefully they (IGN/IPL) are able to to save the event .
Blizzard emulating Riot is probably the worst thing that could happen to the scene. Buying success isn't helpful, nor is it sustainable, especially without the third largest internet-based corporation in the world paying you. If they do anything, they should do something similar to what Valve's doing with Dota 2; provide ways for viewers to directly support tournaments without buying them like Riot.
On March 02 2013 16:35 Advantageous wrote: I wouldn't find Rod's (Slasher) source any credible than some other e-sports fan... I mean ya he's a "professional" reporter but still, after all this time, his sources are iffy and ambiguous.
You'd have to be completely blind to not believe him this time. IPL's silence speaks volumes and the longer they wait the more angry I get.
Imagine if you were IPL, trying to save an event, and people leak/report this information...how likely are your chances now?
If IPL is trying to save the event, it's still pretty irresponsible of them to not release a statement. People are making travel plans, using vacation time and reserving flight / hotels. For the host to be pretending nothing is wrong when there is significant risk with the event is very selfish.
"Hey guys its your friends from IPL. We aren't sure whether or not this event is still going to happen so we figured we would make an announcement stating that we aren't sure whether or not this even it still going to happen."
See? Unless they know for sure making a statement is just pointless. Any with such a huge event if there's even a sliver of a chance of still making it happen that's likely what they are working on day and night. It blows for people who are spending lots of cash to go but they can either come out and say "yeah sorry you just lost all your money" or they can say nothing and keep trying to make it work
Or they can say "Due to recent development it is possible that the upcoming IPL6 could be rescheduled or canceled. We are working hard at the moment to ensure the event would proceed as planned but please be advised when making traveling plans. We'd like to thank you for your understanding and continuous support."
On March 02 2013 16:35 Advantageous wrote: I wouldn't find Rod's (Slasher) source any credible than some other e-sports fan... I mean ya he's a "professional" reporter but still, after all this time, his sources are iffy and ambiguous.
You'd have to be completely blind to not believe him this time. IPL's silence speaks volumes and the longer they wait the more angry I get.
Imagine if you were IPL, trying to save an event, and people leak/report this information...how likely are your chances now?
If IPL is trying to save the event, it's still pretty irresponsible of them to not release a statement. People are making travel plans, using vacation time and reserving flight / hotels. For the host to be pretending nothing is wrong when there is significant risk with the event is very selfish.
"Hey guys its your friends from IPL. We aren't sure whether or not this event is still going to happen so we figured we would make an announcement stating that we aren't sure whether or not this even it still going to happen."
See? Unless they know for sure making a statement is just pointless. Any with such a huge event if there's even a sliver of a chance of still making it happen that's likely what they are working on day and night. It blows for people who are spending lots of cash to go but they can either come out and say "yeah sorry you just lost all your money" or they can say nothing and keep trying to make it work
Or they can say "Due to recent development it is possible that the upcoming IPL6 could be rescheduled or canceled. We are working hard at the moment to ensure the event would proceed as planned but please be advised when making traveling plans. We'd like to thank you for your understanding and continuous support."
That statement would basically say it is cancelled.
On March 02 2013 16:35 Advantageous wrote: I wouldn't find Rod's (Slasher) source any credible than some other e-sports fan... I mean ya he's a "professional" reporter but still, after all this time, his sources are iffy and ambiguous.
You'd have to be completely blind to not believe him this time. IPL's silence speaks volumes and the longer they wait the more angry I get.
Imagine if you were IPL, trying to save an event, and people leak/report this information...how likely are your chances now?
If IPL is trying to save the event, it's still pretty irresponsible of them to not release a statement. People are making travel plans, using vacation time and reserving flight / hotels. For the host to be pretending nothing is wrong when there is significant risk with the event is very selfish.
"Hey guys its your friends from IPL. We aren't sure whether or not this event is still going to happen so we figured we would make an announcement stating that we aren't sure whether or not this even it still going to happen."
See? Unless they know for sure making a statement is just pointless. Any with such a huge event if there's even a sliver of a chance of still making it happen that's likely what they are working on day and night. It blows for people who are spending lots of cash to go but they can either come out and say "yeah sorry you just lost all your money" or they can say nothing and keep trying to make it work
Or they can say "Due to recent development it is possible that the upcoming IPL6 could be rescheduled or canceled. We are working hard at the moment to ensure the event would proceed as planned but please be advised when making traveling plans. We'd like to thank you for your understanding and continuous support."
That statement would basically say it is cancelled.
Well, it is cancelled. They are returning products to the sponsors that send them, they cancelled the IPL6 LoL qualifier in korea, the VP of Riot has said that he is interested in doing something with the floor space. The decent thing would be to admit it, not hope for a miracle. There are people that don't read TL who might be interested in going and making plans. Getting burned on non refundable airline/hotel purchases is a slap in the face and its pretty shameful to spring it on people less than a month in advance when all the signs are there.
On March 02 2013 16:35 Advantageous wrote: I wouldn't find Rod's (Slasher) source any credible than some other e-sports fan... I mean ya he's a "professional" reporter but still, after all this time, his sources are iffy and ambiguous.
You'd have to be completely blind to not believe him this time. IPL's silence speaks volumes and the longer they wait the more angry I get.
Imagine if you were IPL, trying to save an event, and people leak/report this information...how likely are your chances now?
If IPL is trying to save the event, it's still pretty irresponsible of them to not release a statement. People are making travel plans, using vacation time and reserving flight / hotels. For the host to be pretending nothing is wrong when there is significant risk with the event is very selfish.
"Hey guys its your friends from IPL. We aren't sure whether or not this event is still going to happen so we figured we would make an announcement stating that we aren't sure whether or not this even it still going to happen."
See? Unless they know for sure making a statement is just pointless. Any with such a huge event if there's even a sliver of a chance of still making it happen that's likely what they are working on day and night. It blows for people who are spending lots of cash to go but they can either come out and say "yeah sorry you just lost all your money" or they can say nothing and keep trying to make it work
Or they can say "Due to recent development it is possible that the upcoming IPL6 could be rescheduled or canceled. We are working hard at the moment to ensure the event would proceed as planned but please be advised when making traveling plans. We'd like to thank you for your understanding and continuous support."
That statement would basically say it is cancelled.
That's the point, no? They are basically hoping for the Ace on the river now.
On March 02 2013 16:35 Advantageous wrote: I wouldn't find Rod's (Slasher) source any credible than some other e-sports fan... I mean ya he's a "professional" reporter but still, after all this time, his sources are iffy and ambiguous.
You'd have to be completely blind to not believe him this time. IPL's silence speaks volumes and the longer they wait the more angry I get.
Imagine if you were IPL, trying to save an event, and people leak/report this information...how likely are your chances now?
If IPL is trying to save the event, it's still pretty irresponsible of them to not release a statement. People are making travel plans, using vacation time and reserving flight / hotels. For the host to be pretending nothing is wrong when there is significant risk with the event is very selfish.
"Hey guys its your friends from IPL. We aren't sure whether or not this event is still going to happen so we figured we would make an announcement stating that we aren't sure whether or not this even it still going to happen."
See? Unless they know for sure making a statement is just pointless. Any with such a huge event if there's even a sliver of a chance of still making it happen that's likely what they are working on day and night. It blows for people who are spending lots of cash to go but they can either come out and say "yeah sorry you just lost all your money" or they can say nothing and keep trying to make it work
Or they can say "Due to recent development it is possible that the upcoming IPL6 could be rescheduled or canceled. We are working hard at the moment to ensure the event would proceed as planned but please be advised when making traveling plans. We'd like to thank you for your understanding and continuous support."
That statement would basically say it is cancelled.
That's the point, no? They are basically hoping for the Ace on the river now.
That's the assumption based on several rumours. True as it may turn out, you're essentially telling IPL to just go and make it official...despite it not being official.
On March 02 2013 16:35 Advantageous wrote: I wouldn't find Rod's (Slasher) source any credible than some other e-sports fan... I mean ya he's a "professional" reporter but still, after all this time, his sources are iffy and ambiguous.
You'd have to be completely blind to not believe him this time. IPL's silence speaks volumes and the longer they wait the more angry I get.
Imagine if you were IPL, trying to save an event, and people leak/report this information...how likely are your chances now?
If IPL is trying to save the event, it's still pretty irresponsible of them to not release a statement. People are making travel plans, using vacation time and reserving flight / hotels. For the host to be pretending nothing is wrong when there is significant risk with the event is very selfish.
"Hey guys its your friends from IPL. We aren't sure whether or not this event is still going to happen so we figured we would make an announcement stating that we aren't sure whether or not this even it still going to happen."
See? Unless they know for sure making a statement is just pointless. Any with such a huge event if there's even a sliver of a chance of still making it happen that's likely what they are working on day and night. It blows for people who are spending lots of cash to go but they can either come out and say "yeah sorry you just lost all your money" or they can say nothing and keep trying to make it work
Or they can say "Due to recent development it is possible that the upcoming IPL6 could be rescheduled or canceled. We are working hard at the moment to ensure the event would proceed as planned but please be advised when making traveling plans. We'd like to thank you for your understanding and continuous support."
That statement would basically say it is cancelled.
That's the point, no? They are basically hoping for the Ace on the river now.
That's the assumption based on several rumours. True as it may turn out, you're essentially telling IPL to just go and make it official...despite it not being official.
They already made it official by not stating anything. Now they are just trying to get people who might go to IPL6 but is really tuned out from esports news (not that many) to buy ticket and (slightly) boost their sale to show to possible buyers, but it is really selfish as it passes a significant risk to customer in order to possible (but not likely) help themselves.
The fact that it's gone so long without an answer means they are likely drafting up an extremely long winded response to what's going on. I wouldn't be surprised if within the next 2 to 3 days we get a very detailed explanation to what's going on. If it lacks detail and is very vague then i'd have no idea what they are waiting so long for.
On March 03 2013 07:21 SoOJuuu wrote: or this could be the worst marketing scheme of all time????
fixed that one
Eclypsia
i actually think this would blow anything Eclypsia did out of the water.
letting rumors circulate about your event being cancelled is not as bad as getting your players to say they were all cheated out of salary imo
not that, but if this were a marketing scheme
Then this is really pathetic on IPL's part. They have fans already vested in this event not only with ticket purchases but flights, accommodations etc. Hopefully IPL will tell people either way what is going on sooner than later so they can issue an apology and refunds to people that bought tickets to the event. That's not much but they should at least do that if this event is not gonna happen.
On March 03 2013 07:21 SoOJuuu wrote: or this could be the worst marketing scheme of all time????
fixed that one
Eclypsia
i actually think this would blow anything Eclypsia did out of the water.
letting rumors circulate about your event being cancelled is not as bad as getting your players to say they were all cheated out of salary imo
not that, but if this were a marketing scheme
Then this is really pathetic on IPL's part. They have fans already vested in this event not only with ticket purchases but flights, accommodations etc. Hopefully IPL will tell people either way what is going on sooner than later so they can issue an apology and refunds to people that bought tickets to the event. That's not much but they should at least do that if this event is not gonna happen.
yeah, I have a ticket to the event but haven't booked my flight yet and am waiting to hear from them to see what I should do. pretty annoying that they haven't issued a comment.
I do not understand. Is there any reason for them not to make a statement? Even if they are at the negotiation table, it's still better to let people know so that you don't have random rumours going around.
IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
What? No, this is actually something that needs to be addressed.
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
They don't owe the people who already bought plane tickets+ hotels anything?
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
They don't owe the people who already bought plane tickets+ hotels anything?
Did they cancel? Because until they do, they don't. If a company with a new owner is suddenly confronted by a bunch of aggro online bullies, I dont really see anyone buying IPL.
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
Yeah what are you talking about? People have taken vacation time, booked hotels, and paid for airfare. You're crazy if you think they shouldn't be given as much time as possible to cancel if there is even a small chance that this isn't going to happen.
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
They don't owe the people who already bought plane tickets+ hotels anything?
Did they cancel? Because until they do, they don't. If a company with a new owner is suddenly confronted by a bunch of aggro online bullies, I dont really see anyone buying IPL.
This is not about "aggro online bullies", this is about people who spent a lot of money to get to IPL and may have a very limited amount of time to cancel or not.
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
Yeah what are you talking about? People have taken vacation time, booked hotels, and paid for airfare. You're crazy if you think they shouldn't be given as much time as possible to cancel if there is even a small chance that this isn't going to happen.
eSport's business is not the most stable business there is. If a company is suddenly bought there is not much that can be done. Is it your fault for going to IPL instead of MLG? Maybe. Did you bet on the wrong pony? It's a possibility. All I'm saying is IPL has a really ugly logo so what can you really do, starting a rumor and getting everyone riled up isn't going to help. Thousands of angry StarCraft fans won't save your tournament. Why don't you start a petition or start a kickstarter and buy it yourself, that's what the internet is for. Punking a small company around that was already struggling in the first place isn't gonna make things better, you are hurting eSports.
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
Yeah what are you talking about? People have taken vacation time, booked hotels, and paid for airfare. You're crazy if you think they shouldn't be given as much time as possible to cancel if there is even a small chance that this isn't going to happen.
eSport's business is not the most stable business there is. If a company is suddenly bought there is not much that can be done. Is it your fault for going to IPL instead of MLG? Maybe. Did you bet on the wrong pony? It's a possibility. All I'm saying is IPL has a really ugly logo so what can you really do, starting a rumor and getting everyone riled up isn't going to help. Thousands of angry StarCraft fans won't save your tournament. Why don't you start a petition or start a kickstarter and buy it yourself, that's what the internet is for. Punking a small company around that was already struggling in the first place isn't gonna make things better, you are hurting eSports.
I'm always fascinated by the never ending stream of people that are called out online for a completely unreasonable position ...
That then come back in the thread, and bend over backwards trying to save face on the original absurd position.
This company planned a big event that is potentially costly for a lot of people.
You are saying that this company (any company) -- should NOT immediately address rumors of a potential cancellation on behalf of people that may have already payed money to attend? Under just about any circumstances?
Ok.
No, this is hilarious. Please continue to rationalize your original post. I'm getting out the popcorn ...
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
Yeah what are you talking about? People have taken vacation time, booked hotels, and paid for airfare. You're crazy if you think they shouldn't be given as much time as possible to cancel if there is even a small chance that this isn't going to happen.
eSport's business is not the most stable business there is. If a company is suddenly bought there is not much that can be done. Is it your fault for going to IPL instead of MLG? Maybe. Did you bet on the wrong pony? It's a possibility. All I'm saying is IPL has a really ugly logo so what can you really do, starting a rumor and getting everyone riled up isn't going to help. Thousands of angry StarCraft fans won't save your tournament. Why don't you start a petition or start a kickstarter and buy it yourself, that's what the internet is for. Punking a small company around that was already struggling in the first place isn't gonna make things better, you are hurting eSports.
What the fuck are you even trying to say in this post? Its not even close to coherent.
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
Yeah what are you talking about? People have taken vacation time, booked hotels, and paid for airfare. You're crazy if you think they shouldn't be given as much time as possible to cancel if there is even a small chance that this isn't going to happen.
eSport's business is not the most stable business there is. If a company is suddenly bought there is not much that can be done. Is it your fault for going to IPL instead of MLG? Maybe. Did you bet on the wrong pony? It's a possibility. All I'm saying is IPL has a really ugly logo so what can you really do, starting a rumor and getting everyone riled up isn't going to help. Thousands of angry StarCraft fans won't save your tournament. Why don't you start a petition or start a kickstarter and buy it yourself, that's what the internet is for. Punking a small company around that was already struggling in the first place isn't gonna make things better, you are hurting eSports.
I'm always fascinated by the never ending stream of people that are called out online for a completely unreasonable position ...
That then come back in the thread, and bend over backwards trying to save face on the original absurd position.
This company planned a big event that is potentially costly for a lot of people.
You are saying that this company (any company) -- should NOT immediately address rumors of a potential cancellation on behalf of people that may have already payed money to attend? Under just about any circumstances?
Ok.
No, this is hilarious. Please continue to rationalize your original post. I'm getting out the popcorn ...
You just said "rumors." Are you in high school where rumors still hold value over your life? They are just rumors.
He sort of has a point... Dragging a companies name through the mud when they are relatively small and already struggling over rumours doesn't make "esports" look good to investors. I mean think of how much bull shit happens in the community already every week there is another retarded drama. Why would some business man who is 50 years old and can barely understand the internet feel safe putting his money into gaming companies when some sudden slight can cause a massive shit storm.
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
Yeah what are you talking about? People have taken vacation time, booked hotels, and paid for airfare. You're crazy if you think they shouldn't be given as much time as possible to cancel if there is even a small chance that this isn't going to happen.
eSport's business is not the most stable business there is. If a company is suddenly bought there is not much that can be done. Is it your fault for going to IPL instead of MLG? Maybe. Did you bet on the wrong pony? It's a possibility. All I'm saying is IPL has a really ugly logo so what can you really do, starting a rumor and getting everyone riled up isn't going to help. Thousands of angry StarCraft fans won't save your tournament. Why don't you start a petition or start a kickstarter and buy it yourself, that's what the internet is for. Punking a small company around that was already struggling in the first place isn't gonna make things better, you are hurting eSports.
What the fuck are you even trying to say in this post? Its not even close to coherent.
Hey Jinro, relax, don't fucking slap me. See the comment above me. Here in United States we are allowed to write how we speak. Nothing to lose hair about.
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
Yeah what are you talking about? People have taken vacation time, booked hotels, and paid for airfare. You're crazy if you think they shouldn't be given as much time as possible to cancel if there is even a small chance that this isn't going to happen.
eSport's business is not the most stable business there is. If a company is suddenly bought there is not much that can be done. Is it your fault for going to IPL instead of MLG? Maybe. Did you bet on the wrong pony? It's a possibility. All I'm saying is IPL has a really ugly logo so what can you really do, starting a rumor and getting everyone riled up isn't going to help. Thousands of angry StarCraft fans won't save your tournament. Why don't you start a petition or start a kickstarter and buy it yourself, that's what the internet is for. Punking a small company around that was already struggling in the first place isn't gonna make things better, you are hurting eSports.
What the fuck are you even trying to say in this post? Its not even close to coherent.
Hey Jinro, relax, don't fucking slap me. See the comment above me. Here in United States we are allowed to write how we speak. Nothing to lose hair about.
No, you're actually just a terrible poster, and you should stop embarrassing yourself.
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
Yeah what are you talking about? People have taken vacation time, booked hotels, and paid for airfare. You're crazy if you think they shouldn't be given as much time as possible to cancel if there is even a small chance that this isn't going to happen.
eSport's business is not the most stable business there is. If a company is suddenly bought there is not much that can be done. Is it your fault for going to IPL instead of MLG? Maybe. Did you bet on the wrong pony? It's a possibility. All I'm saying is IPL has a really ugly logo so what can you really do, starting a rumor and getting everyone riled up isn't going to help. Thousands of angry StarCraft fans won't save your tournament. Why don't you start a petition or start a kickstarter and buy it yourself, that's what the internet is for. Punking a small company around that was already struggling in the first place isn't gonna make things better, you are hurting eSports.
What the fuck are you even trying to say in this post? Its not even close to coherent.
Hey Jinro, relax, don't fucking slap me. See the comment above me. Here in United States we are allowed to write how we speak. Nothing to lose hair about.
no, your post actually wasn't coherent. it made my brain hurt.
and no they aren't just rumors. They canceled a LoL qualifier. Thats not a rumor. Its a fact. They are sending sponsors their product back. Thats a fact.
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
Yeah what are you talking about? People have taken vacation time, booked hotels, and paid for airfare. You're crazy if you think they shouldn't be given as much time as possible to cancel if there is even a small chance that this isn't going to happen.
eSport's business is not the most stable business there is. If a company is suddenly bought there is not much that can be done. Is it your fault for going to IPL instead of MLG? Maybe. Did you bet on the wrong pony? It's a possibility. All I'm saying is IPL has a really ugly logo so what can you really do, starting a rumor and getting everyone riled up isn't going to help. Thousands of angry StarCraft fans won't save your tournament. Why don't you start a petition or start a kickstarter and buy it yourself, that's what the internet is for. Punking a small company around that was already struggling in the first place isn't gonna make things better, you are hurting eSports.
What the fuck are you even trying to say in this post? Its not even close to coherent.
Hey Jinro, relax, don't fucking slap me. See the comment above me. Here in United States we are allowed to write how we speak. Nothing to lose hair about.
No, you're actually just a terrible poster, and you should stop embarrassing yourself.
He's a troll; Let him stay hungry.
On topic: It's customary for a business to react to "rumors" like this. If they do not do this guess what happens. That said; These "shit storms" are bigger in our heads than in those of any potential buyers imo. If someone thinks he can make money of of this I don't think they'll care too much about threads like this.
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
Yeah what are you talking about? People have taken vacation time, booked hotels, and paid for airfare. You're crazy if you think they shouldn't be given as much time as possible to cancel if there is even a small chance that this isn't going to happen.
eSport's business is not the most stable business there is. If a company is suddenly bought there is not much that can be done. Is it your fault for going to IPL instead of MLG? Maybe. Did you bet on the wrong pony? It's a possibility. All I'm saying is IPL has a really ugly logo so what can you really do, starting a rumor and getting everyone riled up isn't going to help. Thousands of angry StarCraft fans won't save your tournament. Why don't you start a petition or start a kickstarter and buy it yourself, that's what the internet is for. Punking a small company around that was already struggling in the first place isn't gonna make things better, you are hurting eSports.
What the fuck are you even trying to say in this post? Its not even close to coherent.
Hey Jinro, relax, don't fucking slap me. See the comment above me. Here in United States we are allowed to write how we speak. Nothing to lose hair about.
no, your post actually wasn't coherent. it made my brain hurt.
and no they aren't just rumors. They canceled a LoL qualifier. Thats not a rumor. Its a fact. They are sending sponsors their product back. Thats a fact.
I am not a poster or here to solve anyone's problems. Just because LoL is canceled or because Doa is not casting does that mean that IPL6 is cancelled as well. What if the new owners all of a sudden want to bring back John Madden as the new face of eSports and partner with Pirelli Tires or something and make the best tournament this side of the atlantic. We just don't know. All these posts are embarrassing me, as a StarCraft fan and eSports fan. Where is the positivity? Where is the love? Where is the optimism? If I made your brain hurt maybe you are reading into this situation just a little bit too excessively.
I don't know all the facts but I am just getting tired of all the attacking. Have some patience. There is an expansion, for a relatively new game out this month. Let's be happy with what we have and if you can't afford to not know because of vacation time then don't go, just don't tell 50,000 people about it.
The comment below me; Makes sense. If you have store credit at a Blockbuster that has closed down, why would you break into the empty plot of land that once was and argue with yourself? It's not attractive and if enough people do it no one will rent videos in that location, ever.
P.S. Maybe it's just all this pent up excitement for this new game that has me feeling really assertive but when i get drunk or really excited I do one thing. And that is smack talk, but still... Let's remember that IPL5 was really cool and awesome. No reason why it couldn't happen again.
IPL has always responded quickly in the past, David Ting and his team have earned my respect as people who will do everything in their power to do esports right. I could be naive, but I just don't buy that the whole group changed character overnight.
But I don't think they have a voice anymore. My suspicion is that their new owners have shut them up.
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
Yeah what are you talking about? People have taken vacation time, booked hotels, and paid for airfare. You're crazy if you think they shouldn't be given as much time as possible to cancel if there is even a small chance that this isn't going to happen.
eSport's business is not the most stable business there is. If a company is suddenly bought there is not much that can be done. Is it your fault for going to IPL instead of MLG? Maybe. Did you bet on the wrong pony? It's a possibility. All I'm saying is IPL has a really ugly logo so what can you really do, starting a rumor and getting everyone riled up isn't going to help. Thousands of angry StarCraft fans won't save your tournament. Why don't you start a petition or start a kickstarter and buy it yourself, that's what the internet is for. Punking a small company around that was already struggling in the first place isn't gonna make things better, you are hurting eSports.
What the fuck are you even trying to say in this post? Its not even close to coherent.
Hey Jinro, relax, don't fucking slap me. See the comment above me. Here in United States we are allowed to write how we speak. Nothing to lose hair about.
no, your post actually wasn't coherent. it made my brain hurt.
and no they aren't just rumors. They canceled a LoL qualifier. Thats not a rumor. Its a fact. They are sending sponsors their product back. Thats a fact.
[ ... ]
I don't know all the facts but I am just getting tired of all the attacking. Have some patience. There is an expansion, for a relatively new game out this month. Let's be happy with what we have and if you can't afford to not know because of vacation time then don't go, just don't tell 50,000 people about it.
This is not about some fan who can or cannot go 'because of vacation time'. Don't you understand all the players spend great amounts of time and money on this tournament (practice, hotel, flight), and it is very important for them to get clarity on this situation as soon as possible? Yes it is a rumor, so if IGN would have just responded with an official statement quickly there would not have been such a big fuss about it.
It's cool that you want everybody to just 'be happy with what we have' but that's completely irrelevant to this situation where people invest real time and money into something that might not actually take place. This is not your f-cking fantasy world where everything does not matter and everybody smiles 24/7.
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
Yeah what are you talking about? People have taken vacation time, booked hotels, and paid for airfare. You're crazy if you think they shouldn't be given as much time as possible to cancel if there is even a small chance that this isn't going to happen.
eSport's business is not the most stable business there is. If a company is suddenly bought there is not much that can be done. Is it your fault for going to IPL instead of MLG? Maybe. Did you bet on the wrong pony? It's a possibility. All I'm saying is IPL has a really ugly logo so what can you really do, starting a rumor and getting everyone riled up isn't going to help. Thousands of angry StarCraft fans won't save your tournament. Why don't you start a petition or start a kickstarter and buy it yourself, that's what the internet is for. Punking a small company around that was already struggling in the first place isn't gonna make things better, you are hurting eSports.
What the fuck are you even trying to say in this post? Its not even close to coherent.
Hey Jinro, relax, don't fucking slap me. See the comment above me. Here in United States we are allowed to write how we speak. Nothing to lose hair about.
no, your post actually wasn't coherent. it made my brain hurt.
and no they aren't just rumors. They canceled a LoL qualifier. Thats not a rumor. Its a fact. They are sending sponsors their product back. Thats a fact.
I am not a poster or here to solve anyone's problems. Just because LoL is canceled or because Doa is not casting does that mean that IPL6 is cancelled as well. What if the new owners all of a sudden want to bring back John Madden as the new face of eSports and partner with Pirelli Tires or something and make the best tournament this side of the atlantic. We just don't know. All these posts are embarrassing me, as a StarCraft fan and eSports fan. Where is the positivity? Where is the love? Where is the optimism? If I made your brain hurt maybe you are reading into this situation just a little bit too excessively.
I don't know all the facts but I am just getting tired of all the attacking. Have some patience. There is an expansion, for a relatively new game out this month. Let's be happy with what we have and if you can't afford to not know because of vacation time then don't go, just don't tell 50,000 people about it.
once again you are just rambling on and aren't very coherent.
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
Yeah what are you talking about? People have taken vacation time, booked hotels, and paid for airfare. You're crazy if you think they shouldn't be given as much time as possible to cancel if there is even a small chance that this isn't going to happen.
eSport's business is not the most stable business there is. If a company is suddenly bought there is not much that can be done. Is it your fault for going to IPL instead of MLG? Maybe. Did you bet on the wrong pony? It's a possibility. All I'm saying is IPL has a really ugly logo so what can you really do, starting a rumor and getting everyone riled up isn't going to help. Thousands of angry StarCraft fans won't save your tournament. Why don't you start a petition or start a kickstarter and buy it yourself, that's what the internet is for. Punking a small company around that was already struggling in the first place isn't gonna make things better, you are hurting eSports.
What the fuck are you even trying to say in this post? Its not even close to coherent.
Hey Jinro, relax, don't fucking slap me. See the comment above me. Here in United States we are allowed to write how we speak. Nothing to lose hair about.
no, your post actually wasn't coherent. it made my brain hurt.
and no they aren't just rumors. They canceled a LoL qualifier. Thats not a rumor. Its a fact. They are sending sponsors their product back. Thats a fact.
I am not a poster or here to solve anyone's problems. Just because LoL is canceled or because Doa is not casting does that mean that IPL6 is cancelled as well. What if the new owners all of a sudden want to bring back John Madden as the new face of eSports and partner with Pirelli Tires or something and make the best tournament this side of the atlantic. We just don't know. All these posts are embarrassing me, as a StarCraft fan and eSports fan. Where is the positivity? Where is the love? Where is the optimism? If I made your brain hurt maybe you are reading into this situation just a little bit too excessively.
I don't know all the facts but I am just getting tired of all the attacking. Have some patience. There is an expansion, for a relatively new game out this month. Let's be happy with what we have and if you can't afford to not know because of vacation time then don't go, just don't tell 50,000 people about it.
The comment below me; Makes sense. If you have store credit at a Blockbuster that has closed down, why would you break into the empty plot of land that once was and argue with yourself? It's not attractive and if enough people do it no one will rent videos in that location, ever.
P.S. Maybe it's just all this pent up excitement for this new game that has me feeling really assertive but when i get drunk or really excited I do one thing. And that is smack talk, but still... Let's remember that IPL5 was really cool and awesome. No reason why it couldn't happen again.
No, your posts seriously make no sense. IPL6 is canceled. IPL is screwing people over with their unprofessional stance to all of this. It's been TWO DAYS since this news was leaked and still they have not made a statement. People have a right to be angry.
On March 03 2013 17:53 scandolouskt wrote: IPL has always responded quickly in the past, David Ting and his team have earned my respect as people who will do everything in their power to do esports right. I could be naive, but I just don't buy that the whole group changed character overnight.
But I don't think they have a voice anymore. My suspicion is that their new owners have shut them up.
I wouldn't be too surprised if this is actually the case. If it's not, I wonder what's taking them so long.
On March 03 2013 16:34 ViktorSC wrote: IGN doesn't owe anyone anything. If they haven't said anything then there is nothing to say. This makes TeamLiquid.net look like a mob, not a community.
Yeah what are you talking about? People have taken vacation time, booked hotels, and paid for airfare. You're crazy if you think they shouldn't be given as much time as possible to cancel if there is even a small chance that this isn't going to happen.
eSport's business is not the most stable business there is. If a company is suddenly bought there is not much that can be done. Is it your fault for going to IPL instead of MLG? Maybe. Did you bet on the wrong pony? It's a possibility. All I'm saying is IPL has a really ugly logo so what can you really do, starting a rumor and getting everyone riled up isn't going to help. Thousands of angry StarCraft fans won't save your tournament. Why don't you start a petition or start a kickstarter and buy it yourself, that's what the internet is for. Punking a small company around that was already struggling in the first place isn't gonna make things better, you are hurting eSports.
What the fuck are you even trying to say in this post? Its not even close to coherent.
Hey Jinro, relax, don't fucking slap me. See the comment above me. Here in United States we are allowed to write how we speak. Nothing to lose hair about.
no, your post actually wasn't coherent. it made my brain hurt.
and no they aren't just rumors. They canceled a LoL qualifier. Thats not a rumor. Its a fact. They are sending sponsors their product back. Thats a fact.
I am not a poster or here to solve anyone's problems. Just because LoL is canceled or because Doa is not casting does that mean that IPL6 is cancelled as well. What if the new owners all of a sudden want to bring back John Madden as the new face of eSports and partner with Pirelli Tires or something and make the best tournament this side of the atlantic. We just don't know. All these posts are embarrassing me, as a StarCraft fan and eSports fan. Where is the positivity? Where is the love? Where is the optimism? If I made your brain hurt maybe you are reading into this situation just a little bit too excessively.
I don't know all the facts but I am just getting tired of all the attacking. Have some patience. There is an expansion, for a relatively new game out this month. Let's be happy with what we have and if you can't afford to not know because of vacation time then don't go, just don't tell 50,000 people about it.
The comment below me; Makes sense. If you have store credit at a Blockbuster that has closed down, why would you break into the empty plot of land that once was and argue with yourself? It's not attractive and if enough people do it no one will rent videos in that location, ever.
P.S. Maybe it's just all this pent up excitement for this new game that has me feeling really assertive but when i get drunk or really excited I do one thing. And that is smack talk, but still... Let's remember that IPL5 was really cool and awesome. No reason why it couldn't happen again.
I think most people just want IGN to tell us if IPL6 is happening. For those of us that have already made plans it would be really really nice. My cancellation deadline is coming up on my accommodations and it's really annoying that they won't just tell us whether it's gonna happen or not.
One assumes that either a.) It is getting cancelled and they aren't telling us because they are still trying to sell it and tbh most business investors won't find out unless they announce it or b.) They are trying to hopefully keep it running but don't know yet, so they don't want to say definite yes or no, because either they get into a further shit storm by saying yes and then it doesn't, and if they say no and it does, then it will hurt the event
Asking for information about an event that some of us have had to take off work for and pay money to go to is not unreasonable.
I feel like the silence here is very telling. It seems like they're trying to hold off on saying anything while they scramble to save the event. Of course this is all speculation, but I certainly feel for those players/teams/spectators who've spent their hard-earned on IPL6 at this point...
On March 03 2013 18:11 yyfpulls wrote: IPL6 is canceled. IPL is screwing people over with their unprofessional stance to all of this. It's been TWO DAYS since this news was leaked and still they have not made a statement. People have a right to be angry.
Zero business days have passed been since the rumour was started. While people who run tourneys might work on weekends, people in charge of the negotiations, and the decisions on who gets to say what when, probably dont work on weekends - maybe the guys at ziff davis went on a trip without cellphone coverage.
If someone starts a rumour like that, during possible sales negotiations on friday - it is reasonable to not expect any answer before sometime monday.
I'm 90% certain the tourney will be canceled, if sponsors getting their products back statement is true. Also im 90% certain on monday there will be official statement, or at least some info.
On March 03 2013 18:11 yyfpulls wrote: IPL6 is canceled. IPL is screwing people over with their unprofessional stance to all of this. It's been TWO DAYS since this news was leaked and still they have not made a statement. People have a right to be angry.
Zero business days have passed been since the rumour was started. While people who run tourneys might work on weekends, people in charge of the negotiations, and the decisions on who gets to say what when, probably dont work on weekends - maybe the guys at ziff davis went on a trip without cellphone coverage.
If someone starts a rumour like that, during possible sales negotiations on friday - it is reasonable to not expect any answer before sometime monday.
I'm 90% certain the tourney will be canceled, if sponsors getting their products back statement is true. Also im 90% certain on monday there will be official statement, or at least some info.
On March 03 2013 18:11 yyfpulls wrote: IPL6 is canceled. IPL is screwing people over with their unprofessional stance to all of this. It's been TWO DAYS since this news was leaked and still they have not made a statement. People have a right to be angry.
Zero business days have passed been since the rumour was started. While people who run tourneys might work on weekends, people in charge of the negotiations, and the decisions on who gets to say what when, probably dont work on weekends - maybe the guys at ziff davis went on a trip without cellphone coverage.
If someone starts a rumour like that, during possible sales negotiations on friday - it is reasonable to not expect any answer before sometime monday.
I'm 90% certain the tourney will be canceled, if sponsors getting their products back statement is true. Also im 90% certain on monday there will be official statement, or at least some info.
Rumor started friday, Friday is a business day.
Yes but generally speaking you don't get an official announcement (especially if one wasn't already prepared) until whatever is going on internally is resolved.
I'll put it this way, lets say they are in negotiations with potential buyers, or maybe they are not and they are debating whether to cancel, postpone, or scrap IPL. Maybe they even have made the decision and were then on friday preparing a statement to be released Monday. Is it really worth it to respond to twitter and forum rumors before monday? Sorry but I just don't see the benefit in rushing something out that was already planned to be announced 2 to 3 days later.
We don't know precisely where Scoots and Gamespot (etc.) got their information from. While their information could be in fact credible that something is going on with IPL6 or they may even know more precisely what's going on, that doesn't mean the company is prepared to make a statement about what is going on within a day of someone spreading rumors based on information heard.
One of the major issues I've personally always had with esports 'journalism' in general is the citing of mysterious 'sources'. Even on stories which in all reality are not so controversial there should be any reason why sources are not directly quoted. If gamespot (a news site) has sources cite them, otherwise they mine as well be the National Inquirer of esports.
What looks better?
Head of operations for IPL stated X, or Camera guy for IPL stated X....
In my opinion this is why we get 'sources' instead of legitimate citation of who said what. I have a feeling many of these stories are a game of telephone and these 'journalists' don't want the story to look like it isn't credible by citing camera guy x as then people would lambaste them for posting a story with such a source. So instead 'sources say' which is beyond ambiguous to say the least, all in order to be first out of the gate with the story.
On March 03 2013 18:11 yyfpulls wrote: IPL6 is canceled. IPL is screwing people over with their unprofessional stance to all of this. It's been TWO DAYS since this news was leaked and still they have not made a statement. People have a right to be angry.
Zero business days have passed been since the rumour was started. While people who run tourneys might work on weekends, people in charge of the negotiations, and the decisions on who gets to say what when, probably dont work on weekends - maybe the guys at ziff davis went on a trip without cellphone coverage.
If someone starts a rumour like that, during possible sales negotiations on friday - it is reasonable to not expect any answer before sometime monday.
I'm 90% certain the tourney will be canceled, if sponsors getting their products back statement is true. Also im 90% certain on monday there will be official statement, or at least some info.
In business world when there something this magnitude going on there is no such thing as "business day". Unless whoever they try to negotiate with shut down their brain during weekend, there might not be a negotiation coming Monday if something is not properly dressed ASAP.
On March 03 2013 18:11 yyfpulls wrote: IPL6 is canceled. IPL is screwing people over with their unprofessional stance to all of this. It's been TWO DAYS since this news was leaked and still they have not made a statement. People have a right to be angry.
Zero business days have passed been since the rumour was started. While people who run tourneys might work on weekends, people in charge of the negotiations, and the decisions on who gets to say what when, probably dont work on weekends - maybe the guys at ziff davis went on a trip without cellphone coverage.
If someone starts a rumour like that, during possible sales negotiations on friday - it is reasonable to not expect any answer before sometime monday.
I'm 90% certain the tourney will be canceled, if sponsors getting their products back statement is true. Also im 90% certain on monday there will be official statement, or at least some info.
In business world when there something this magnitude going on there is no such thing as "business day". Unless whoever they try to negotiate with shut down their brain during weekend, there might not be a negotiation coming Monday if something is not properly dressed ASAP.
For Ziff Davis, IPL probably is not on the same order of magnitude compared to what it is for the eSports scene. And since IPL is the one that seems to be in trouble, they probably would not want to break any NDA's that might be in place for the sales negotiations until people from Ziff Davis - or perhaps a potential buyer - give their OK.
On March 04 2013 00:10 T.O.P. wrote: Rumor started friday, Friday is a business day.
OK, one day. Still i find it is an reasonable assumption that whoever gets to decide already went home by the time it got big enough for someone to inform him/her - and being probably quite ignorant about the importance of IPL to the esports community - would have told "OK, lets have a meeting at monday ASAP " if called after that.
If IPL was not in middle of possible sales negotiation i would have have higher expectations of information being available ASAP - but currently, while this looks bad, i really would give them one more workday to let people know whatever is going on. ( unless by monday it is too late to cancel hotels/flights already for anyone). After that i'm gonna join you guys :V
On March 03 2013 18:11 yyfpulls wrote: IPL6 is canceled. IPL is screwing people over with their unprofessional stance to all of this. It's been TWO DAYS since this news was leaked and still they have not made a statement. People have a right to be angry.
Zero business days have passed been since the rumour was started. While people who run tourneys might work on weekends, people in charge of the negotiations, and the decisions on who gets to say what when, probably dont work on weekends - maybe the guys at ziff davis went on a trip without cellphone coverage.
If someone starts a rumour like that, during possible sales negotiations on friday - it is reasonable to not expect any answer before sometime monday.
I'm 90% certain the tourney will be canceled, if sponsors getting their products back statement is true. Also im 90% certain on monday there will be official statement, or at least some info.
In business world when there something this magnitude going on there is no such thing as "business day". Unless whoever they try to negotiate with shut down their brain during weekend, there might not be a negotiation coming Monday if something is not properly dressed ASAP.
For Ziff Davis, IPL probably is not on the same order of magnitude compared to what it is for the eSports scene. And since IPL is the one that seems to be in trouble, they probably would not want to break any NDA's that might be in place for the sales negotiations until people from Ziff Davis - or perhaps a potential buyer - give their OK.
On March 04 2013 00:10 T.O.P. wrote: Rumor started friday, Friday is a business day.
OK, one day. Still i find it is an reasonable assumption that whoever gets to decide already went home by the time it got big enough for someone to inform him/her - and being probably quite ignorant about the importance of IPL to the esports community - would have told "OK, lets have a meeting at monday ASAP " if called after that.
If IPL was not in middle of possible sales negotiation i would have have higher expectations of information being available ASAP - but currently, while this looks bad, i really would give them one more workday to let people know whatever is going on. ( unless by monday it is too late to cancel hotels/flights already for anyone). After that i'm gonna join you guys :V
Pretty much this. The people working for IPL probably would like to make a statement asap, but the people they need to talk to (IGN/ZIFF/Buyers) probably wont be around till monday. I really wouldn't be surprized if it takes longer than monday. They may just have time to meet and discuss monday. Then they (Ziff/ign/buyers) still need to make the decisions.
Although, lets not forget that these rumors technically have been going on for almost 2 weeks now, it is just recently that it has become a major issue of concern. There were a lot of stray rumors flying around earlier that most of us dismissed. It was only until recently that they reached a critical mass to cause concern and attract attention. So this has been an issue for IPL for a while and I'm sure they've been talking with IGN/Ziff/whoever for a while and we are still here.
The last thing David Ting tweeted was that Scoops window for guessing a buyer for IPL was "limited." Though that was over 4 days ago now. I'd like to think that this means that they are in the final stages of hammering a deal out; which means we likely wouldn't see an announcement until the weekdays when things pick back up. Though, that just might be me being optimistic and either way it could still be good or bad news.
lol @ people talking like they know what NDAs are in effect and what's going on behind the scenes here. You have absolutely no idea and you don't sound smart by guessing, sorry.
It isn't going to be cancelled... I was on the IPL6 Qualifiers stream last night and all the casters were confident that they were returning to work on Monday and the days after. Also, this could just be an attention-getter to build up hype for IPL6.... soon, IGN might come out and say that "IPL6 is back", and then the viewers for streams and the live event would probably jump a considerable amount.
You know the only thing I'll really miss was watching Lanibot on stream 3 or whichever, having her awesome conversations with everybody (and even people trying to kiss her ). I hope we get to see her again one day (on a free stream). Actually just watching her do stuff was more entertaining than most games .
On March 03 2013 18:11 yyfpulls wrote: IPL6 is canceled. IPL is screwing people over with their unprofessional stance to all of this. It's been TWO DAYS since this news was leaked and still they have not made a statement. People have a right to be angry.
Zero business days have passed been since the rumour was started. While people who run tourneys might work on weekends, people in charge of the negotiations, and the decisions on who gets to say what when, probably dont work on weekends - maybe the guys at ziff davis went on a trip without cellphone coverage.
If someone starts a rumour like that, during possible sales negotiations on friday - it is reasonable to not expect any answer before sometime monday.
I'm 90% certain the tourney will be canceled, if sponsors getting their products back statement is true. Also im 90% certain on monday there will be official statement, or at least some info.
Rumor started friday, Friday is a business day.
Yes but generally speaking you don't get an official announcement (especially if one wasn't already prepared) until whatever is going on internally is resolved.
I'll put it this way, lets say they are in negotiations with potential buyers, or maybe they are not and they are debating whether to cancel, postpone, or scrap IPL. Maybe they even have made the decision and were then on friday preparing a statement to be released Monday. Is it really worth it to respond to twitter and forum rumors before monday? Sorry but I just don't see the benefit in rushing something out that was already planned to be announced 2 to 3 days later.
We don't know precisely where Scoots and Gamespot (etc.) got their information from. While their information could be in fact credible that something is going on with IPL6 or they may even know more precisely what's going on, that doesn't mean the company is prepared to make a statement about what is going on within a day of someone spreading rumors based on information heard.
One of the major issues I've personally always had with esports 'journalism' in general is the citing of mysterious 'sources'. Even on stories which in all reality are not so controversial there should be any reason why sources are not directly quoted. If gamespot (a news site) has sources cite them, otherwise they mine as well be the National Inquirer of esports.
What looks better?
Head of operations for IPL stated X, or Camera guy for IPL stated X....
In my opinion this is why we get 'sources' instead of legitimate citation of who said what. I have a feeling many of these stories are a game of telephone and these 'journalists' don't want the story to look like it isn't credible by citing camera guy x as then people would lambaste them for posting a story with such a source. So instead 'sources say' which is beyond ambiguous to say the least, all in order to be first out of the gate with the story.
So in your world letting rumors fly around that are not true is NOT important enough to dismiss when you have a lot of people that bought tickets, accommodations etc to your event?
On March 03 2013 18:11 yyfpulls wrote: IPL6 is canceled. IPL is screwing people over with their unprofessional stance to all of this. It's been TWO DAYS since this news was leaked and still they have not made a statement. People have a right to be angry.
Zero business days have passed been since the rumour was started. While people who run tourneys might work on weekends, people in charge of the negotiations, and the decisions on who gets to say what when, probably dont work on weekends - maybe the guys at ziff davis went on a trip without cellphone coverage.
If someone starts a rumour like that, during possible sales negotiations on friday - it is reasonable to not expect any answer before sometime monday.
I'm 90% certain the tourney will be canceled, if sponsors getting their products back statement is true. Also im 90% certain on monday there will be official statement, or at least some info.
Rumor started friday, Friday is a business day.
Yes but generally speaking you don't get an official announcement (especially if one wasn't already prepared) until whatever is going on internally is resolved.
I'll put it this way, lets say they are in negotiations with potential buyers, or maybe they are not and they are debating whether to cancel, postpone, or scrap IPL. Maybe they even have made the decision and were then on friday preparing a statement to be released Monday. Is it really worth it to respond to twitter and forum rumors before monday? Sorry but I just don't see the benefit in rushing something out that was already planned to be announced 2 to 3 days later.
We don't know precisely where Scoots and Gamespot (etc.) got their information from. While their information could be in fact credible that something is going on with IPL6 or they may even know more precisely what's going on, that doesn't mean the company is prepared to make a statement about what is going on within a day of someone spreading rumors based on information heard.
One of the major issues I've personally always had with esports 'journalism' in general is the citing of mysterious 'sources'. Even on stories which in all reality are not so controversial there should be any reason why sources are not directly quoted. If gamespot (a news site) has sources cite them, otherwise they mine as well be the National Inquirer of esports.
What looks better?
Head of operations for IPL stated X, or Camera guy for IPL stated X....
In my opinion this is why we get 'sources' instead of legitimate citation of who said what. I have a feeling many of these stories are a game of telephone and these 'journalists' don't want the story to look like it isn't credible by citing camera guy x as then people would lambaste them for posting a story with such a source. So instead 'sources say' which is beyond ambiguous to say the least, all in order to be first out of the gate with the story.
So in your world letting rumors fly around that are not true is NOT important enough to dismiss when you have a lot of people that bought tickets, accommodations etc to your event?
Not saying it's not important.
What I am saying is so long as they post something by Monday morning, it will have little to no effect having been done earlier on people who have made, or need to make reservations for the event. If a reservation was non refundable it's still non refundable. If a reservation is refundable, it'll likely still be so whether they posted Friday or Monday. If you still need to make reservations them posting on Monday won't stop you from doing so.
Two business days to respond to a flood of rumors is not unreasonable. If nothing is posted by Monday afternoon then I would start to wonder why they are dragging their feet. As by Monday evening the rumor mill would likely be starting to get absolutely out of control (yes more so then it already has).
On March 04 2013 03:41 TD.VapoR wrote: It isn't going to be cancelled... I was on the IPL6 Qualifiers stream last night and all the casters were confident that they were returning to work on Monday and the days after. Also, this could just be an attention-getter to build up hype for IPL6.... soon, IGN might come out and say that "IPL6 is back", and then the viewers for streams and the live event would probably jump a considerable amount.
Are you serious? Teams/viewers are already cancelling hotels and flights if possible. There's been a lot of damage to the tournament if it DOES run due to these rumors and lack of response. I was going to attend and if they come on monday and say "hi guys was on vacation IPL is still running" I won't give a shit.
On March 04 2013 03:33 Doodsmack wrote: lol @ people talking like they know what NDAs are in effect and what's going on behind the scenes here. You have absolutely no idea and you don't sound smart by guessing, sorry.
Let's see here. You could either be a reasonable individual and imagine all sorts of logical, expected scenarios that would normally exist in a business setting, or you could act like a lynch mob who just want to hang someone.
But clearly the former is the most laughable choice.
On March 04 2013 03:33 Doodsmack wrote: lol @ people talking like they know what NDAs are in effect and what's going on behind the scenes here. You have absolutely no idea and you don't sound smart by guessing, sorry.
Let's see here. You could either be a reasonable individual and imagine all sorts of logical, expected scenarios that would normally exist in a business setting, or you could act like a lynch mob who just want to hang someone.
But clearly the former is the most laughable choice.
You're right, however a large chunk of the people here actually don't know what're common business practice or what their environment is. And that is what's a headache to read.
On March 04 2013 09:46 neoghaleon55 wrote: four days and still nothing? comon IPL, throw us a bone.
Depending on when you expect them to have noticed Scoot's tweet..
If you go by this thread, then it was made late on Thursday (which is where i noticed it); say they noticed it on Friday... then, imo, it would not be smart to rush into a statement depending on how things are going internally (buyer found? resources still available?)..
So to me it would make sense that there would be no statement on Friday, they likely don't work weekends, so the soonest that a statement could be expected is Monday (tomorrow). And even if they did notice it sooner, it is something that you want to be able to talk about with certainty, which could be very difficult to determine with the fact that IPL is being sold and they could be in negotiations with potential buyers, who may or may not want to continue with the event.
The fact is that there is NO Official statement, so everything is pure speculation and we simply don't know.
As much as I adore the IPL events this is turning into a disaster.
I am not even expecting much from them: I can take "I don't really know what is going on but I am trying to get to the root of this with managers" as an answer.
I remember IPL as the event that keeps going even if they lose internet connection. It is as if the IPL crew got kidnapped and locked in a room without any means to communicate with the outside world.
Maybe IGN *did* sell off the IPL staff to black market slave traders for money and they are locked up in a slave ship crossing the Atlantics...
On March 04 2013 03:41 TD.VapoR wrote: It isn't going to be cancelled... I was on the IPL6 Qualifiers stream last night and all the casters were confident that they were returning to work on Monday and the days after. Also, this could just be an attention-getter to build up hype for IPL6.... soon, IGN might come out and say that "IPL6 is back", and then the viewers for streams and the live event would probably jump a considerable amount.
Are you serious? Teams/viewers are already cancelling hotels and flights if possible. There's been a lot of damage to the tournament if it DOES run due to these rumors and lack of response. I was going to attend and if they come on monday and say "hi guys was on vacation IPL is still running" I won't give a shit.
Another typically ignorant post from you. You'd watch your back if you knew what was good for ya.
I don't see how the onus is on IPL to stamp out every little rumour that gets started by dirt sheet commandos like that communist SirScoots. Turns my stomach.
If you're canceling your hotel based off hearsay when it's been one business day, you're a fool and I hope you never work in this business. Why don't you just head up to red square while you're at it and share a brew with Lenin.
These rumors are destroying the hard work of good Americans like the IPL crew, and I can't half stand it. Until we get something official in writing, just shut yer yapper.
On March 04 2013 03:41 TD.VapoR wrote: It isn't going to be cancelled... I was on the IPL6 Qualifiers stream last night and all the casters were confident that they were returning to work on Monday and the days after. Also, this could just be an attention-getter to build up hype for IPL6.... soon, IGN might come out and say that "IPL6 is back", and then the viewers for streams and the live event would probably jump a considerable amount.
Are you serious? Teams/viewers are already cancelling hotels and flights if possible. There's been a lot of damage to the tournament if it DOES run due to these rumors and lack of response. I was going to attend and if they come on monday and say "hi guys was on vacation IPL is still running" I won't give a shit.
Another typically ignorant post from you. You'd watch your back if you knew what was good for ya.
I don't see how the onus is on IPL to stamp out every little rumour that gets started by dirt sheet commandos like that communist SirScoots. Turns my stomach.
If you're canceling your hotel based off hearsay when it's been one business day, you're a fool and I hope you never work in this business. Why don't you just head up to red square while you're at it and share a brew with Lenin.
These rumors are destroying the hard work of good Americans like the IPL crew, and I can't half stand it. Until we get something official in writing, just shut yer yapper.
On March 04 2013 03:41 TD.VapoR wrote: It isn't going to be cancelled... I was on the IPL6 Qualifiers stream last night and all the casters were confident that they were returning to work on Monday and the days after. Also, this could just be an attention-getter to build up hype for IPL6.... soon, IGN might come out and say that "IPL6 is back", and then the viewers for streams and the live event would probably jump a considerable amount.
Are you serious? Teams/viewers are already cancelling hotels and flights if possible. There's been a lot of damage to the tournament if it DOES run due to these rumors and lack of response. I was going to attend and if they come on monday and say "hi guys was on vacation IPL is still running" I won't give a shit.
Another typically ignorant post from you. You'd watch your back if you knew what was good for ya.
I don't see how the onus is on IPL to stamp out every little rumour that gets started by dirt sheet commandos like that communist SirScoots. Turns my stomach.
If you're canceling your hotel based off hearsay when it's been one business day, you're a fool and I hope you never work in this business. Why don't you just head up to red square while you're at it and share a brew with Lenin.
These rumors are destroying the hard work of good Americans like the IPL crew, and I can't half stand it. Until we get something official in writing, just shut yer yapper.
Flames Out, BKB
Haha I got a good laugh from this thank you. I really hope this wasn't a serious post.
On March 04 2013 03:41 TD.VapoR wrote: It isn't going to be cancelled... I was on the IPL6 Qualifiers stream last night and all the casters were confident that they were returning to work on Monday and the days after. Also, this could just be an attention-getter to build up hype for IPL6.... soon, IGN might come out and say that "IPL6 is back", and then the viewers for streams and the live event would probably jump a considerable amount.
Are you serious? Teams/viewers are already cancelling hotels and flights if possible. There's been a lot of damage to the tournament if it DOES run due to these rumors and lack of response. I was going to attend and if they come on monday and say "hi guys was on vacation IPL is still running" I won't give a shit.
Another typically ignorant post from you. You'd watch your back if you knew what was good for ya.
I don't see how the onus is on IPL to stamp out every little rumour that gets started by dirt sheet commandos like that communist SirScoots. Turns my stomach.
If you're canceling your hotel based off hearsay when it's been one business day, you're a fool and I hope you never work in this business. Why don't you just head up to red square while you're at it and share a brew with Lenin.
These rumors are destroying the hard work of good Americans like the IPL crew, and I can't half stand it. Until we get something official in writing, just shut yer yapper.
Flames Out, BKB
Haha I got a good laugh from this thank you. I really hope this wasn't a serious post.
On March 04 2013 03:41 TD.VapoR wrote: It isn't going to be cancelled... I was on the IPL6 Qualifiers stream last night and all the casters were confident that they were returning to work on Monday and the days after. Also, this could just be an attention-getter to build up hype for IPL6.... soon, IGN might come out and say that "IPL6 is back", and then the viewers for streams and the live event would probably jump a considerable amount.
Are you serious? Teams/viewers are already cancelling hotels and flights if possible. There's been a lot of damage to the tournament if it DOES run due to these rumors and lack of response. I was going to attend and if they come on monday and say "hi guys was on vacation IPL is still running" I won't give a shit.
Another typically ignorant post from you. You'd watch your back if you knew what was good for ya.
I don't see how the onus is on IPL to stamp out every little rumour that gets started by dirt sheet commandos like that communist SirScoots. Turns my stomach.
If you're canceling your hotel based off hearsay when it's been one business day, you're a fool and I hope you never work in this business. Why don't you just head up to red square while you're at it and share a brew with Lenin.
These rumors are destroying the hard work of good Americans like the IPL crew, and I can't half stand it. Until we get something official in writing, just shut yer yapper.
Flames Out, BKB
Haha I got a good laugh from this thank you. I really hope this wasn't a serious post.
He is, but that makes it even more funny
Wait really? It seemed like the typical internet guy-who-tries-too-hard-to-be-funny post.
On March 04 2013 03:41 TD.VapoR wrote: It isn't going to be cancelled... I was on the IPL6 Qualifiers stream last night and all the casters were confident that they were returning to work on Monday and the days after. Also, this could just be an attention-getter to build up hype for IPL6.... soon, IGN might come out and say that "IPL6 is back", and then the viewers for streams and the live event would probably jump a considerable amount.
Are you serious? Teams/viewers are already cancelling hotels and flights if possible. There's been a lot of damage to the tournament if it DOES run due to these rumors and lack of response. I was going to attend and if they come on monday and say "hi guys was on vacation IPL is still running" I won't give a shit.
Another typically ignorant post from you. You'd watch your back if you knew what was good for ya.
I don't see how the onus is on IPL to stamp out every little rumour that gets started by dirt sheet commandos like that communist SirScoots. Turns my stomach.
If you're canceling your hotel based off hearsay when it's been one business day, you're a fool and I hope you never work in this business. Why don't you just head up to red square while you're at it and share a brew with Lenin.
These rumors are destroying the hard work of good Americans like the IPL crew, and I can't half stand it. Until we get something official in writing, just shut yer yapper.
Flames Out, BKB
Haha I got a good laugh from this thank you. I really hope this wasn't a serious post.
He is, but that makes it even more funny
Wait really? It seemed like the typical internet guy-who-tries-too-hard-to-be-funny post.
He should have finished that up with Obama did it .
On March 04 2013 03:41 TD.VapoR wrote: It isn't going to be cancelled... I was on the IPL6 Qualifiers stream last night and all the casters were confident that they were returning to work on Monday and the days after. Also, this could just be an attention-getter to build up hype for IPL6.... soon, IGN might come out and say that "IPL6 is back", and then the viewers for streams and the live event would probably jump a considerable amount.
Are you serious? Teams/viewers are already cancelling hotels and flights if possible. There's been a lot of damage to the tournament if it DOES run due to these rumors and lack of response. I was going to attend and if they come on monday and say "hi guys was on vacation IPL is still running" I won't give a shit.
Another typically ignorant post from you. You'd watch your back if you knew what was good for ya.
I don't see how the onus is on IPL to stamp out every little rumour that gets started by dirt sheet commandos like that communist SirScoots. Turns my stomach.
If you're canceling your hotel based off hearsay when it's been one business day, you're a fool and I hope you never work in this business. Why don't you just head up to red square while you're at it and share a brew with Lenin.
These rumors are destroying the hard work of good Americans like the IPL crew, and I can't half stand it. Until we get something official in writing, just shut yer yapper.
Flames Out, BKB
Haha I got a good laugh from this thank you. I really hope this wasn't a serious post.
He is, but that makes it even more funny
Wait really? It seemed like the typical internet guy-who-tries-too-hard-to-be-funny post.
He should have finished that up with Obama did it .
If you stay up really late, you can catch the report on Fox News. Obama did it, is killing eSports, etc. It's like a short 15 second crawl along the ticker, you really have to look closely.
Still, there really needs to be an official statement. My guess is they'll have one Monday afternoon, latest - because the Cosmopolitan is still selling tickets and rooms, and to keep it going and then yank it would really burn them. And in Vegas, that could mean some people walking funny after their legs heal. They'll get the Mafia zerg after them.
Actually, it breaks around Thursday, they scramble all day Friday, can't get with their partners over the weekend, more emergency stuff on Monday morning, expect GG any minute.
The IPL events always seemed over-produced and very expensive to put on. I always wondered what their margine were, or if they were operating at a loss ...
I think this is going to be a bad year for SC2, to be honest. I don't see HOTS doing anything to expand the user/fan base — something the SC2 esports scene desperately needs. I half-expect MLG and NASL to scale back a bit.
On March 04 2013 17:37 Defacer wrote: The IPL events always seemed over-produced and very expensive to put on. I always wondered what their margine were, or if they were operating at a loss ...
I think this is going to be a bad year for SC2, to be honest. I don't see HOTS doing anything to expand the user/fan base — something the SC2 esports scene desperately needs. I half-expect MLG and NASL to scale back a bit.
There was a post somewhere yesterday where they pointed to links of interviews with David Ting saying they were breaking even and on the road to paying off IGN sometime this year. Their biggest lost was IPL 3 at around 1 million dollars but they are already paying it back.
On March 04 2013 17:37 Defacer wrote: The IPL events always seemed over-produced and very expensive to put on. I always wondered what their margine were, or if they were operating at a loss ...
I think this is going to be a bad year for SC2, to be honest. I don't see HOTS doing anything to expand the user/fan base — something the SC2 esports scene desperately needs. I half-expect MLG and NASL to scale back a bit.
There was a post somewhere yesterday where they pointed to links of interviews with David Ting saying they were breaking even and on the road to paying off IGN sometime this year. Their biggest lost was IPL 3 at around 1 million dollars but they are already paying it back.
It's just high-risk high-cost business with a low pay-off. I think they were banking on the audience of SC2 to grow signifiicantly, but if anything other tournaments and games are cutting into it, and the overall audience for the game is shrinking.
IGN just doesn't seem like the kind of media company that thinks 'breaking even' is good enough. Most companies don't invest a million of dollars just so they can get their money back, unfortunately.
On March 04 2013 17:37 Defacer wrote: The IPL events always seemed over-produced and very expensive to put on. I always wondered what their margine were, or if they were operating at a loss ...
I think this is going to be a bad year for SC2, to be honest. I don't see HOTS doing anything to expand the user/fan base — something the SC2 esports scene desperately needs. I half-expect MLG and NASL to scale back a bit.
There was a post somewhere yesterday where they pointed to links of interviews with David Ting saying they were breaking even and on the road to paying off IGN sometime this year. Their biggest lost was IPL 3 at around 1 million dollars but they are already paying it back.
It's just high-risk high-cost business with a low pay-off. I think they were banking on the audience of SC2 to grow signifiicantly, but if anything other tournaments and games are cutting into it, and they audience is shrinking.
IGN just doesn't seem like the kind of media company that thinks 'breaking even' is good enough. Most companies don't invest a million of dollars just so they can get their money back, unfortunately.
The thing is that IPL isn't SC2 only but also LoL and to a lesser extent Shootmania.
On March 04 2013 17:37 Defacer wrote: The IPL events always seemed over-produced and very expensive to put on. I always wondered what their margine were, or if they were operating at a loss ...
I think this is going to be a bad year for SC2, to be honest. I don't see HOTS doing anything to expand the user/fan base — something the SC2 esports scene desperately needs. I half-expect MLG and NASL to scale back a bit.
There was a post somewhere yesterday where they pointed to links of interviews with David Ting saying they were breaking even and on the road to paying off IGN sometime this year. Their biggest lost was IPL 3 at around 1 million dollars but they are already paying it back.
It's just high-risk high-cost business with a low pay-off. I think they were banking on the audience of SC2 to grow signifiicantly, but if anything other tournaments and games are cutting into it, and they audience is shrinking.
IGN just doesn't seem like the kind of media company that thinks 'breaking even' is good enough. Most companies don't invest a million of dollars just so they can get their money back, unfortunately.
The thing is that IPL isn't SC2 only but also LoL and to a lesser extent Shootmania.
Agreed with both of you. But the weird thing is that there's not much talk about the cancellation of IPL6 on the LoL side of things. Is it because their lack of a community hub like TL, or they just don't follow the sc2 community on twitter that started all this? Nothing against either, just a thought.
On March 04 2013 03:41 TD.VapoR wrote: It isn't going to be cancelled... I was on the IPL6 Qualifiers stream last night and all the casters were confident that they were returning to work on Monday and the days after. Also, this could just be an attention-getter to build up hype for IPL6.... soon, IGN might come out and say that "IPL6 is back", and then the viewers for streams and the live event would probably jump a considerable amount.
Are you serious? Teams/viewers are already cancelling hotels and flights if possible. There's been a lot of damage to the tournament if it DOES run due to these rumors and lack of response. I was going to attend and if they come on monday and say "hi guys was on vacation IPL is still running" I won't give a shit.
Another typically ignorant post from you. You'd watch your back if you knew what was good for ya.
I don't see how the onus is on IPL to stamp out every little rumour that gets started by dirt sheet commandos like that communist SirScoots. Turns my stomach.
If you're canceling your hotel based off hearsay when it's been one business day, you're a fool and I hope you never work in this business. Why don't you just head up to red square while you're at it and share a brew with Lenin.
These rumors are destroying the hard work of good Americans like the IPL crew, and I can't half stand it. Until we get something official in writing, just shut yer yapper.
Flames Out, BKB
Your whole post reeks of stupidity but wtf is that part supposed to mean? A threat?
On March 04 2013 03:41 TD.VapoR wrote: It isn't going to be cancelled... I was on the IPL6 Qualifiers stream last night and all the casters were confident that they were returning to work on Monday and the days after. Also, this could just be an attention-getter to build up hype for IPL6.... soon, IGN might come out and say that "IPL6 is back", and then the viewers for streams and the live event would probably jump a considerable amount.
Are you serious? Teams/viewers are already cancelling hotels and flights if possible. There's been a lot of damage to the tournament if it DOES run due to these rumors and lack of response. I was going to attend and if they come on monday and say "hi guys was on vacation IPL is still running" I won't give a shit.
Another typically ignorant post from you. You'd watch your back if you knew what was good for ya.
I don't see how the onus is on IPL to stamp out every little rumour that gets started by dirt sheet commandos like that communist SirScoots. Turns my stomach.
If you're canceling your hotel based off hearsay when it's been one business day, you're a fool and I hope you never work in this business. Why don't you just head up to red square while you're at it and share a brew with Lenin.
These rumors are destroying the hard work of good Americans like the IPL crew, and I can't half stand it. Until we get something official in writing, just shut yer yapper.
Flames Out, BKB
Your whole post reeks of stupidity but wtf is that part supposed to mean? A threat?
this schedule page has been shrinking every day to avoid any mention of the Friday show match that is supposed to be at SxSW. Fair to assume that isn't happening either. http://www.ign.com/ipl/all/schedule
On March 04 2013 17:37 Defacer wrote: The IPL events always seemed over-produced and very expensive to put on. I always wondered what their margine were, or if they were operating at a loss ...
I think this is going to be a bad year for SC2, to be honest. I don't see HOTS doing anything to expand the user/fan base — something the SC2 esports scene desperately needs. I half-expect MLG and NASL to scale back a bit.
There was a post somewhere yesterday where they pointed to links of interviews with David Ting saying they were breaking even and on the road to paying off IGN sometime this year. Their biggest lost was IPL 3 at around 1 million dollars but they are already paying it back.
It's just high-risk high-cost business with a low pay-off. I think they were banking on the audience of SC2 to grow signifiicantly, but if anything other tournaments and games are cutting into it, and they audience is shrinking.
IGN just doesn't seem like the kind of media company that thinks 'breaking even' is good enough. Most companies don't invest a million of dollars just so they can get their money back, unfortunately.
The thing is that IPL isn't SC2 only but also LoL and to a lesser extent Shootmania.
Agreed with both of you. But the weird thing is that there's not much talk about the cancellation of IPL6 on the LoL side of things. Is it because their lack of a community hub like TL, or they just don't follow the sc2 community on twitter that started all this? Nothing against either, just a thought.
There isnt much noise from the LoL side because we already know its cancelled.
On March 02 2013 07:41 nojitosunrise wrote: So..redbeard just about confirms that IPL6 is canceled. Riot might host a viewing party in vegas and is planning on running a make up tournament for the challenger tier teams that qualified for IPL6
We've been thinking about this as well, it's a great idea. We are looking into possibly renting out some space at the Cosmo and throwing a viewing party for all of our awesome fans to watch the LCS games that will now be played at our studio in LA. Details TBC shortly. By the way, we will also be doing a makeup tournament for the challenger teams that qualified for IPL 6, and hosting at least some of the matches at the LCS studio a few weeks later.
On March 05 2013 01:04 SirScoots wrote: I am no Commie!
Comrade Scoots destroying the freedom-loving e-sports scene one announcement at a time.
I really hope that IPL/IGN announce something formally today. We're rapidly passing the point of no return here. Regardless if they magically save the event, they're going to be hurting players and spectators alike without some kind of closure.
They are PST so it's like 9:20 am there, I'd wait until like noon their time before flipping tables.
It was unofficially announced to be canceled like three or four days ago by other timezones, does not matter about working days or business hours or anything like that there are people that can straighten the record and they should have done it a long time ago with something this serious. They know.
No announcement or official word at all by this point is embarrassing and there should be a lot more anger i feel.
They are PST so it's like 9:20 am there, I'd wait until like noon their time before flipping tables.
IGN updates their main website 24/7, there is no excuse for this silence.. There is not even a single tweet from anyone at IPL.. they are handling this situation in a really bad way.
IPL really needs to make a statement one way or the other. It's incredibly poor taste that they won't speak on the issue when so many people are involved and stand to lose money.
On March 05 2013 03:18 crms wrote: IPL really needs to make a statement one way or the other. It's incredibly poor taste that they won't speak on the issue when so many people are involved and stand to lose money.
Well, this all kind of happened on a Friday. It's Monday morning now, the next business day, so I would expect something today if we're gonna get anything.
On March 05 2013 03:18 crms wrote: IPL really needs to make a statement one way or the other. It's incredibly poor taste that they won't speak on the issue when so many people are involved and stand to lose money.
Don't have enough information to know what's going on behind the scenes/the complexity of the business decisions/whose fault it is that no statement has been made/whether there are legal reasons not to make a statement right now --->
This email is being sent to team managers and players alike. If you are a team manager, assume the responsibility for your players in answering this email.
The purpose of this message is to determine how many of you have booked travel for IPL6.
If you HAVE booked travel for IPL6, please inform me of all your non-refundable travel costs, and attach all relevant receipts for the travel. Please do this as soon as possible.
Thank you.
안녕하세요,
이 이메일은 팀 메니저들과 선수들 모두에게 보냅니다. 만약 팀 매니져이시면, 이 이메일에 대표하는 선수들을 대신하여 답장을 보내주세요.
이 메시지의 목적은 여러분들 중에 몇 명이 아이피엘6 비행기를 벌써 예약했는지 알기 위해서입니다.
만약 이미 아이피엘6 비행기를 예약하셨으면, 환불 불가능한 여비를 알려주시고, 모든 영수증을 첨부하여 보내주십시요. 신속히 답장하시면 매우 감사하겠습니다.
On March 05 2013 03:18 crms wrote: IPL really needs to make a statement one way or the other. It's incredibly poor taste that they won't speak on the issue when so many people are involved and stand to lose money.
Don't have enough information to know what's going on behind the scenes/the complexity of the business decisions/whose fault it is that no statement has been made/whether there are legal reasons not to make a statement right now --->
Pass judgment on a specific party anyway --->
Fun times in the SC2 community
So you think this is being handled well? I don't care who is at fault. When members within your team are 'leaking' the event is cancelled in hopes to warn people to cancel plans before it's too late and IGN and IPL refuse to comment when the story of the event being cancelled breaks, you know things aren't going well.
Nobody (consumers) cares about the innerworkings, the 'complexity of business decisions' or 'who is at fault' they want to know if they just wasted hundreds or thousands of previously refundable dollars because IGN was sitting on their thumbs instead of releasing a statement to their customers.
This email is being sent to team managers and players alike. If you are a team manager, assume the responsibility for your players in answering this email.
The purpose of this message is to determine how many of you have booked travel for IPL6.
If you HAVE booked travel for IPL6, please inform me of all your non-refundable travel costs, and attach all relevant receipts for the travel. Please do this as soon as possible.
Thank you.
안녕하세요,
이 이메일은 팀 메니저들과 선수들 모두에게 보냅니다. 만약 팀 매니져이시면, 이 이메일에 대표하는 선수들을 대신하여 답장을 보내주세요.
이 메시지의 목적은 여러분들 중에 몇 명이 아이피엘6 비행기를 벌써 예약했는지 알기 위해서입니다.
만약 이미 아이피엘6 비행기를 예약하셨으면, 환불 불가능한 여비를 알려주시고, 모든 영수증을 첨부하여 보내주십시요. 신속히 답장하시면 매우 감사하겠습니다.
This email is being sent to team managers and players alike. If you are a team manager, assume the responsibility for your players in answering this email.
The purpose of this message is to determine how many of you have booked travel for IPL6.
If you HAVE booked travel for IPL6, please inform me of all your non-refundable travel costs, and attach all relevant receipts for the travel. Please do this as soon as possible.
Thank you.
안녕하세요,
이 이메일은 팀 메니저들과 선수들 모두에게 보냅니다. 만약 팀 매니져이시면, 이 이메일에 대표하는 선수들을 대신하여 답장을 보내주세요.
이 메시지의 목적은 여러분들 중에 몇 명이 아이피엘6 비행기를 벌써 예약했는지 알기 위해서입니다.
만약 이미 아이피엘6 비행기를 예약하셨으면, 환불 불가능한 여비를 알려주시고, 모든 영수증을 첨부하여 보내주십시요. 신속히 답장하시면 매우 감사하겠습니다.
This email is being sent to team managers and players alike. If you are a team manager, assume the responsibility for your players in answering this email.
The purpose of this message is to determine how many of you have booked travel for IPL6.
If you HAVE booked travel for IPL6, please inform me of all your non-refundable travel costs, and attach all relevant receipts for the travel. Please do this as soon as possible.
Thank you.
안녕하세요,
이 이메일은 팀 메니저들과 선수들 모두에게 보냅니다. 만약 팀 매니져이시면, 이 이메일에 대표하는 선수들을 대신하여 답장을 보내주세요.
이 메시지의 목적은 여러분들 중에 몇 명이 아이피엘6 비행기를 벌써 예약했는지 알기 위해서입니다.
만약 이미 아이피엘6 비행기를 예약하셨으면, 환불 불가능한 여비를 알려주시고, 모든 영수증을 첨부하여 보내주십시요. 신속히 답장하시면 매우 감사하겠습니다.
not really a big update, but its the first sign of communication of something that is going on.
Seems like they're going to compensate the non-refundable travel costs. That might mean postponement and not just cancellation. Or at least not the end for the IPL brand..
This email is being sent to team managers and players alike. If you are a team manager, assume the responsibility for your players in answering this email.
The purpose of this message is to determine how many of you have booked travel for IPL6.
If you HAVE booked travel for IPL6, please inform me of all your non-refundable travel costs, and attach all relevant receipts for the travel. Please do this as soon as possible.
Thank you.
안녕하세요,
이 이메일은 팀 메니저들과 선수들 모두에게 보냅니다. 만약 팀 매니져이시면, 이 이메일에 대표하는 선수들을 대신하여 답장을 보내주세요.
이 메시지의 목적은 여러분들 중에 몇 명이 아이피엘6 비행기를 벌써 예약했는지 알기 위해서입니다.
만약 이미 아이피엘6 비행기를 예약하셨으면, 환불 불가능한 여비를 알려주시고, 모든 영수증을 첨부하여 보내주십시요. 신속히 답장하시면 매우 감사하겠습니다.
not really a big update, but its the first sign of communication of something that is going on.
Well, at least they are trying to get the tab on teams. Now those people who paid IPL ticket money? Who cares.
This happens all the time.
Sporting events, concerts, etc... Field gets rained out, sudden personal emergency, etc... Cancelling on ticket payers is not new if you've ever done things outside of your computer.
The problem arises with purchased tickets.... hotel reservations, etc... Those hurt.
Not that IGN can do anything about that--but with such a niche market its a bit more painful when things like this happens.
For example, lets say the World Series game seven gets rained out--the world series has so much social capital that comes with it that its more forgivable when things like that happen because people know that it will just be rescheduled because people know that it *will* have financial support. Sometimes deals are made, some level of compensation (discount on future tickets, free tickets to such and such games, etc...)
But IPL getting cancelled because it lost company support? That's a bitter pill to swallow.
I dont understand why they would refund travel costs to EVERYBODY instead of just doing the event, surely its a bigger loss to cancel and refund everything after so much already happened.
If they only refund travel costs to the teams, well, thats a dick move to however many thousands of people.
On March 05 2013 05:21 Cyro wrote: I dont understand why they would refund travel costs to EVERYBODY instead of just doing the event, surely its a bigger loss to cancel and refund everything after so much already happened.
If they only refund travel costs to the teams, well, thats a dick move to however many thousands of people.
..which probably is a none too subtle hint as to how much the new IGN wants to invest in esports in the future. They simply don't give a damn.
On March 05 2013 05:21 Cyro wrote: I dont understand why they would refund travel costs to EVERYBODY instead of just doing the event, surely its a bigger loss to cancel and refund everything after so much already happened.
If they only refund travel costs to the teams, well, thats a dick move to however many thousands of people.
..which probably is a none too subtle hint as to how much the new IGN wants to invest in esports in the future. They simply don't give a damn.
This email is being sent to team managers and players alike. If you are a team manager, assume the responsibility for your players in answering this email.
The purpose of this message is to determine how many of you have booked travel for IPL6.
If you HAVE booked travel for IPL6, please inform me of all your non-refundable travel costs, and attach all relevant receipts for the travel. Please do this as soon as possible.
Thank you.
안녕하세요,
이 이메일은 팀 메니저들과 선수들 모두에게 보냅니다. 만약 팀 매니져이시면, 이 이메일에 대표하는 선수들을 대신하여 답장을 보내주세요.
이 메시지의 목적은 여러분들 중에 몇 명이 아이피엘6 비행기를 벌써 예약했는지 알기 위해서입니다.
만약 이미 아이피엘6 비행기를 예약하셨으면, 환불 불가능한 여비를 알려주시고, 모든 영수증을 첨부하여 보내주십시요. 신속히 답장하시면 매우 감사하겠습니다.
not really a big update, but its the first sign of communication of something that is going on.
This is actually great news. If IPL would dissolve it means that the company would be bancrupt and no longer exist hence IPL would have no reason to reimburse people back for any non-refundable cost. No company who has ceased operations has ever payed people back their expenses, such as travels nor does the law force them to.
If anything this more shows signs of them postponing the league and trying to give people back their money for those who will not be able to attend a later date or feel that the company let them down. This is more a way of showing good will and the only reason behind it is if IPL as a company still exists. If they would had dissolved than this move would make zero sense.
Again, i this is true then it looks like IPL will be okay.
Maybe a controversial opinion, but i would very much like to see ipl6 hyped up as much as possible to force some kind of response. It's innocent as long as for all we officially know, there's nothing wrong with the event and it will be occuring as planned
On March 05 2013 03:18 crms wrote: IPL really needs to make a statement one way or the other. It's incredibly poor taste that they won't speak on the issue when so many people are involved and stand to lose money.
Don't have enough information to know what's going on behind the scenes/the complexity of the business decisions/whose fault it is that no statement has been made/whether there are legal reasons not to make a statement right now --->
Pass judgment on a specific party anyway --->
Fun times in the SC2 community
So you think this is being handled well? I don't care who is at fault. When members within your team are 'leaking' the event is cancelled in hopes to warn people to cancel plans before it's too late and IGN and IPL refuse to comment when the story of the event being cancelled breaks, you know things aren't going well.
Nobody (consumers) cares about the innerworkings, the 'complexity of business decisions' or 'who is at fault' they want to know if they just wasted hundreds or thousands of previously refundable dollars because IGN was sitting on their thumbs instead of releasing a statement to their customers.
The question is whether you should lay the blame on a specific party (IPL), without knowing whether that party is to blame. Which is what you did.
On March 05 2013 03:18 crms wrote: IPL really needs to make a statement one way or the other. It's incredibly poor taste that they won't speak on the issue when so many people are involved and stand to lose money.
Don't have enough information to know what's going on behind the scenes/the complexity of the business decisions/whose fault it is that no statement has been made/whether there are legal reasons not to make a statement right now --->
Pass judgment on a specific party anyway --->
Fun times in the SC2 community
So you think this is being handled well? I don't care who is at fault. When members within your team are 'leaking' the event is cancelled in hopes to warn people to cancel plans before it's too late and IGN and IPL refuse to comment when the story of the event being cancelled breaks, you know things aren't going well.
Nobody (consumers) cares about the innerworkings, the 'complexity of business decisions' or 'who is at fault' they want to know if they just wasted hundreds or thousands of previously refundable dollars because IGN was sitting on their thumbs instead of releasing a statement to their customers.
The question is whether you should lay the blame on a specific party (IPL), without knowing whether that party is to blame. Which is what you did.
You don't seem to get it. Consumers who bought tickets, hotel reservations and made plans DON'T CARE who is at fault. Somebody, IGN, IPL, ZD, doesn't matter, needs to come forward. Because this is an IPL event they will take the brunt of the criticism first, and that's entirely reasonable. You're splitting hairs about something that is insignificant to the people who stand to lose hundreds or thousands of dollars because of the inaction taking place by IPL and co.
For those complaining about not being able to refund tickets for the event specifically, those are handled by the cosmopolitan and theyve already said that they (the cosmo) will refund the tickets if the event is cancelled.
It seems at least that everyone that either qualified, was invited, or is in the open hots bracket received this email. It is definitly better than no news, but still leaves a lot of issues open. The email does not say that the event is either cancelled or postponed. Though it is looking like it is postponed. Though ign isnt saying to straight up cancel plans either. Though it looks like they are preparing to refund some travel arrangements or at least trying to gauge how much it would cost to refund travel.
It really still looks like they havent decided to cancel or postpone yet. If they had decided at this point, there would be no reason to not include it in the email.
On March 05 2013 05:03 crms wrote: So you think this is being handled well? I don't care who is at fault. When members within your team are 'leaking' the event is cancelled in hopes to warn people to cancel plans before it's too late and IGN and IPL refuse to comment when the story of the event being cancelled breaks, you know things aren't going well.
Nobody (consumers) cares about the innerworkings, the 'complexity of business decisions' or 'who is at fault' they want to know if they just wasted hundreds or thousands of previously refundable dollars because IGN was sitting on their thumbs instead of releasing a statement to their customers.
That's a terrible way to view it from a business perspective, and I understand that you don't really care about that. There could be a number of valid legal, business, or other logistical issues that are conspiring to force IPL to potentially cancel this event. That being said, announcing to the public that the event may not happen because of whatever the issue is, is incredibly bad for business.
If it turns out that they're actually able to put on the event, they would have lost a lot of spectators, potential top-flight players who cancelled their plans, and other viewership because of the bad press initiated by admitting to issues. It certainly doesn't help that one of their staff has leaked information about it potentially not happening.
That being said, the issues must still be unresolved/ongoing, or there would have been an official announcement by now. I realize we live in an entitled generation and any "withheld" information seems nefarious, but if there was a legitimate and inevitable cancellation, there would have been something announced by now. I just hope they resolve/conclude whatever issues they're experiencing before too many people cancel or don't cancel their travel plans.
On March 05 2013 03:18 crms wrote: IPL really needs to make a statement one way or the other. It's incredibly poor taste that they won't speak on the issue when so many people are involved and stand to lose money.
Don't have enough information to know what's going on behind the scenes/the complexity of the business decisions/whose fault it is that no statement has been made/whether there are legal reasons not to make a statement right now --->
Pass judgment on a specific party anyway --->
Fun times in the SC2 community
So you think this is being handled well? I don't care who is at fault. When members within your team are 'leaking' the event is cancelled in hopes to warn people to cancel plans before it's too late and IGN and IPL refuse to comment when the story of the event being cancelled breaks, you know things aren't going well.
Nobody (consumers) cares about the innerworkings, the 'complexity of business decisions' or 'who is at fault' they want to know if they just wasted hundreds or thousands of previously refundable dollars because IGN was sitting on their thumbs instead of releasing a statement to their customers.
The question is whether you should lay the blame on a specific party (IPL), without knowing whether that party is to blame. Which is what you did.
You don't seem to get it. Consumers who bought tickets, hotel reservations and made plans DON'T CARE who is at fault. Somebody, IGN, IPL, ZD, doesn't matter, needs to come forward. Because this is an IPL event they will take the brunt of the criticism first, and that's entirely reasonable. You're splitting hairs about something that is insignificant to the people who stand to lose hundreds or thousands of dollars because of the inaction taking place by IPL and co.
If people really dont care who's to blame, and they dont know who's to blame, its not reasonable to blame someone anyway. I'm just saying dont vent your anger on IPL purely for the sake of venting anger. You specifically blamed IPL, after all.
This email is being sent to team managers and players alike. If you are a team manager, assume the responsibility for your players in answering this email.
The purpose of this message is to determine how many of you have booked travel for IPL6.
If you HAVE booked travel for IPL6, please inform me of all your non-refundable travel costs, and attach all relevant receipts for the travel. Please do this as soon as possible.
Thank you.
안녕하세요,
이 이메일은 팀 메니저들과 선수들 모두에게 보냅니다. 만약 팀 매니져이시면, 이 이메일에 대표하는 선수들을 대신하여 답장을 보내주세요.
이 메시지의 목적은 여러분들 중에 몇 명이 아이피엘6 비행기를 벌써 예약했는지 알기 위해서입니다.
만약 이미 아이피엘6 비행기를 예약하셨으면, 환불 불가능한 여비를 알려주시고, 모든 영수증을 첨부하여 보내주십시요. 신속히 답장하시면 매우 감사하겠습니다.
not really a big update, but its the first sign of communication of something that is going on.
This is actually great news. If IPL would dissolve it means that the company would be bancrupt and no longer exist hence IPL would have no reason to reimburse people back for any non-refundable cost. No company who has ceased operations has ever payed people back their expenses, such as travels nor does the law force them to.
If anything this more shows signs of them postponing the league and trying to give people back their money for those who will not be able to attend a later date or feel that the company let them down. This is more a way of showing good will and the only reason behind it is if IPL as a company still exists. If they would had dissolved than this move would make zero sense.
Again, i this is true then it looks like IPL will be okay.
This actually depends if it is a stock company or not, at least in Sweden if a stock company goes bankrupt none gets anything back because it is considered a legal person or legal entity while a private company the owner holds all responsibility.
Dang, looking more and more like it is indeed canceled. I suppose that was to be expected when there are so many great competitors in such a small market. IPL was producing high quality, highly professional content... not enough.
I really hope IPL can somehow live on. And if it doesn't, let's hope their best employees find great new homes in the e-sports industry.
This email is being sent to team managers and players alike. If you are a team manager, assume the responsibility for your players in answering this email.
The purpose of this message is to determine how many of you have booked travel for IPL6.
If you HAVE booked travel for IPL6, please inform me of all your non-refundable travel costs, and attach all relevant receipts for the travel. Please do this as soon as possible.
Thank you.
안녕하세요,
이 이메일은 팀 메니저들과 선수들 모두에게 보냅니다. 만약 팀 매니져이시면, 이 이메일에 대표하는 선수들을 대신하여 답장을 보내주세요.
이 메시지의 목적은 여러분들 중에 몇 명이 아이피엘6 비행기를 벌써 예약했는지 알기 위해서입니다.
만약 이미 아이피엘6 비행기를 예약하셨으면, 환불 불가능한 여비를 알려주시고, 모든 영수증을 첨부하여 보내주십시요. 신속히 답장하시면 매우 감사하겠습니다.
not really a big update, but its the first sign of communication of something that is going on.
This is actually great news. If IPL would dissolve it means that the company would be bancrupt and no longer exist hence IPL would have no reason to reimburse people back for any non-refundable cost. No company who has ceased operations has ever payed people back their expenses, such as travels nor does the law force them to.
If anything this more shows signs of them postponing the league and trying to give people back their money for those who will not be able to attend a later date or feel that the company let them down. This is more a way of showing good will and the only reason behind it is if IPL as a company still exists. If they would had dissolved than this move would make zero sense.
Again, i this is true then it looks like IPL will be okay.
This actually depends if it is a stock company or not, at least in Sweden if a stock company goes bankrupt none gets anything back because it is considered a legal person or legal entity while a private company the owner holds all responsibility.
Similar laws exist in the US. (sounds exactly the same to my knowledge) But Im pretty sure IGN is still a private company. NewsCorp sold IGN because they failed to spin it off as another entity or whatever.
This email is being sent to team managers and players alike. If you are a team manager, assume the responsibility for your players in answering this email.
The purpose of this message is to determine how many of you have booked travel for IPL6.
If you HAVE booked travel for IPL6, please inform me of all your non-refundable travel costs, and attach all relevant receipts for the travel. Please do this as soon as possible.
Thank you."
Sorry kids, but it is all about the money and nothing about feelings . IGN is probably just trying to survive and are now contemplating the costs for the cancellation. Otherwise the mail makes no sense.
But since they have not said this or that publicly , nothing has been decided yet. Probably because they simply do not fully know how much money they will save by cutting this part off the IGN.
On March 05 2013 01:04 SirScoots wrote: I am no Commie!
Indeed. You would never consider redistributing your wealth. Even though I could really use a grant from SirScoots' Dirty Money for Improving Gamers' Lives fund.
On March 05 2013 03:18 crms wrote: IPL really needs to make a statement one way or the other. It's incredibly poor taste that they won't speak on the issue when so many people are involved and stand to lose money.
Don't have enough information to know what's going on behind the scenes/the complexity of the business decisions/whose fault it is that no statement has been made/whether there are legal reasons not to make a statement right now --->
Pass judgment on a specific party anyway --->
Fun times in the SC2 community
So you think this is being handled well? I don't care who is at fault. When members within your team are 'leaking' the event is cancelled in hopes to warn people to cancel plans before it's too late and IGN and IPL refuse to comment when the story of the event being cancelled breaks, you know things aren't going well.
Nobody (consumers) cares about the innerworkings, the 'complexity of business decisions' or 'who is at fault' they want to know if they just wasted hundreds or thousands of previously refundable dollars because IGN was sitting on their thumbs instead of releasing a statement to their customers.
The question is whether you should lay the blame on a specific party (IPL), without knowing whether that party is to blame. Which is what you did.
You don't seem to get it. Consumers who bought tickets, hotel reservations and made plans DON'T CARE who is at fault. Somebody, IGN, IPL, ZD, doesn't matter, needs to come forward. Because this is an IPL event they will take the brunt of the criticism first, and that's entirely reasonable. You're splitting hairs about something that is insignificant to the people who stand to lose hundreds or thousands of dollars because of the inaction taking place by IPL and co.
If people really dont care who's to blame, and they dont know who's to blame, its not reasonable to blame someone anyway. I'm just saying dont vent your anger on IPL purely for the sake of venting anger. You specifically blamed IPL, after all.
Jesus, I've already explained this 3 times, so I won't any more if you response the exact same way again. Replace my original post where I wrote letters IPL, with 'Someone involved with IPL/IGN/ZD...' and then address the argument I was making. You're so hung up on the fact that I asked IPL for a response you're completely ignoring the actual substance of the complaint or gravity of the situation. It's odd you're getting so hung up on something entirely insignficant to what is going on.
On March 05 2013 03:18 crms wrote: IPL really needs to make a statement one way or the other. It's incredibly poor taste that they won't speak on the issue when so many people are involved and stand to lose money.
Don't have enough information to know what's going on behind the scenes/the complexity of the business decisions/whose fault it is that no statement has been made/whether there are legal reasons not to make a statement right now --->
Pass judgment on a specific party anyway --->
Fun times in the SC2 community
So you think this is being handled well? I don't care who is at fault. When members within your team are 'leaking' the event is cancelled in hopes to warn people to cancel plans before it's too late and IGN and IPL refuse to comment when the story of the event being cancelled breaks, you know things aren't going well.
Nobody (consumers) cares about the innerworkings, the 'complexity of business decisions' or 'who is at fault' they want to know if they just wasted hundreds or thousands of previously refundable dollars because IGN was sitting on their thumbs instead of releasing a statement to their customers.
The question is whether you should lay the blame on a specific party (IPL), without knowing whether that party is to blame. Which is what you did.
You don't seem to get it. Consumers who bought tickets, hotel reservations and made plans DON'T CARE who is at fault. Somebody, IGN, IPL, ZD, doesn't matter, needs to come forward. Because this is an IPL event they will take the brunt of the criticism first, and that's entirely reasonable. You're splitting hairs about something that is insignificant to the people who stand to lose hundreds or thousands of dollars because of the inaction taking place by IPL and co.
If people really dont care who's to blame, and they dont know who's to blame, its not reasonable to blame someone anyway. I'm just saying dont vent your anger on IPL purely for the sake of venting anger. You specifically blamed IPL, after all.
Jesus, I've already explained this 3 times, so I won't any more if you response the exact same way again. Replace my original post where I wrote letters IPL, with 'Someone involved with IPL/IGN/ZD...' and then address the argument I was making. You're so hung up on the fact that I asked IPL for a response you're completely ignoring the actual substance of the complaint or gravity of the situation. It's odd you're getting so hung up on something entirely insignficant to what is going on.
You blamed IPL. I'm saying don't blame IPL. If you're implying that you misspoke and didn't really mean to blame IPL (not sure why else you would tell me to replace what you wrote with something else) then say so.
On March 05 2013 03:18 crms wrote: IPL really needs to make a statement one way or the other. It's incredibly poor taste that they won't speak on the issue when so many people are involved and stand to lose money.
Don't have enough information to know what's going on behind the scenes/the complexity of the business decisions/whose fault it is that no statement has been made/whether there are legal reasons not to make a statement right now --->
Pass judgment on a specific party anyway --->
Fun times in the SC2 community
So you think this is being handled well? I don't care who is at fault. When members within your team are 'leaking' the event is cancelled in hopes to warn people to cancel plans before it's too late and IGN and IPL refuse to comment when the story of the event being cancelled breaks, you know things aren't going well.
Nobody (consumers) cares about the innerworkings, the 'complexity of business decisions' or 'who is at fault' they want to know if they just wasted hundreds or thousands of previously refundable dollars because IGN was sitting on their thumbs instead of releasing a statement to their customers.
The question is whether you should lay the blame on a specific party (IPL), without knowing whether that party is to blame. Which is what you did.
You don't seem to get it. Consumers who bought tickets, hotel reservations and made plans DON'T CARE who is at fault. Somebody, IGN, IPL, ZD, doesn't matter, needs to come forward. Because this is an IPL event they will take the brunt of the criticism first, and that's entirely reasonable. You're splitting hairs about something that is insignificant to the people who stand to lose hundreds or thousands of dollars because of the inaction taking place by IPL and co.
If people really dont care who's to blame, and they dont know who's to blame, its not reasonable to blame someone anyway. I'm just saying dont vent your anger on IPL purely for the sake of venting anger. You specifically blamed IPL, after all.
Jesus, I've already explained this 3 times, so I won't any more if you response the exact same way again. Replace my original post where I wrote letters IPL, with 'Someone involved with IPL/IGN/ZD...' and then address the argument I was making. You're so hung up on the fact that I asked IPL for a response you're completely ignoring the actual substance of the complaint or gravity of the situation. It's odd you're getting so hung up on something entirely insignficant to what is going on.
You blamed IPL. I'm saying don't blame IPL. If you're implying that you misspoke and didn't really mean to blame IPL (not sure why else you would tell me to replace what you wrote with something else) then say so.
I don't think people are "blaming" IPL. They just want IPL to tell them if it's still on or not so they can change their plan accordingly, like 3 days ago.
It's like
"Where is your homework?" "Stop blaming me!" "I'm not blaming you. I'm just asking where is your homework." "STOP BLAMING ME!" "#@$#%$#%^"
On March 05 2013 03:18 crms wrote: IPL really needs to make a statement one way or the other. It's incredibly poor taste that they won't speak on the issue when so many people are involved and stand to lose money.
Don't have enough information to know what's going on behind the scenes/the complexity of the business decisions/whose fault it is that no statement has been made/whether there are legal reasons not to make a statement right now --->
Pass judgment on a specific party anyway --->
Fun times in the SC2 community
So you think this is being handled well? I don't care who is at fault. When members within your team are 'leaking' the event is cancelled in hopes to warn people to cancel plans before it's too late and IGN and IPL refuse to comment when the story of the event being cancelled breaks, you know things aren't going well.
Nobody (consumers) cares about the innerworkings, the 'complexity of business decisions' or 'who is at fault' they want to know if they just wasted hundreds or thousands of previously refundable dollars because IGN was sitting on their thumbs instead of releasing a statement to their customers.
The question is whether you should lay the blame on a specific party (IPL), without knowing whether that party is to blame. Which is what you did.
You don't seem to get it. Consumers who bought tickets, hotel reservations and made plans DON'T CARE who is at fault. Somebody, IGN, IPL, ZD, doesn't matter, needs to come forward. Because this is an IPL event they will take the brunt of the criticism first, and that's entirely reasonable. You're splitting hairs about something that is insignificant to the people who stand to lose hundreds or thousands of dollars because of the inaction taking place by IPL and co.
If people really dont care who's to blame, and they dont know who's to blame, its not reasonable to blame someone anyway. I'm just saying dont vent your anger on IPL purely for the sake of venting anger. You specifically blamed IPL, after all.
Jesus, I've already explained this 3 times, so I won't any more if you response the exact same way again. Replace my original post where I wrote letters IPL, with 'Someone involved with IPL/IGN/ZD...' and then address the argument I was making. You're so hung up on the fact that I asked IPL for a response you're completely ignoring the actual substance of the complaint or gravity of the situation. It's odd you're getting so hung up on something entirely insignficant to what is going on.
You blamed IPL. I'm saying don't blame IPL. If you're implying that you misspoke and didn't really mean to blame IPL (not sure why else you would tell me to replace what you wrote with something else) then say so.
Looking less and less likely they will say anything today.
All that said the word to the wise coming out of teams etc. involved is if you can cancel and get a refund you probably should. Even if the event did happen as planned a lot of the talent is already cancelling their plans so what you would see when you got their would be lack luster. Unless of course you want to go just to enjoy Vegas then by all means.
On March 05 2013 03:18 crms wrote: IPL really needs to make a statement one way or the other. It's incredibly poor taste that they won't speak on the issue when so many people are involved and stand to lose money.
Don't have enough information to know what's going on behind the scenes/the complexity of the business decisions/whose fault it is that no statement has been made/whether there are legal reasons not to make a statement right now --->
Pass judgment on a specific party anyway --->
Fun times in the SC2 community
So you think this is being handled well? I don't care who is at fault. When members within your team are 'leaking' the event is cancelled in hopes to warn people to cancel plans before it's too late and IGN and IPL refuse to comment when the story of the event being cancelled breaks, you know things aren't going well.
Nobody (consumers) cares about the innerworkings, the 'complexity of business decisions' or 'who is at fault' they want to know if they just wasted hundreds or thousands of previously refundable dollars because IGN was sitting on their thumbs instead of releasing a statement to their customers.
The question is whether you should lay the blame on a specific party (IPL), without knowing whether that party is to blame. Which is what you did.
You don't seem to get it. Consumers who bought tickets, hotel reservations and made plans DON'T CARE who is at fault. Somebody, IGN, IPL, ZD, doesn't matter, needs to come forward. Because this is an IPL event they will take the brunt of the criticism first, and that's entirely reasonable. You're splitting hairs about something that is insignificant to the people who stand to lose hundreds or thousands of dollars because of the inaction taking place by IPL and co.
If people really dont care who's to blame, and they dont know who's to blame, its not reasonable to blame someone anyway. I'm just saying dont vent your anger on IPL purely for the sake of venting anger. You specifically blamed IPL, after all.
Jesus, I've already explained this 3 times, so I won't any more if you response the exact same way again. Replace my original post where I wrote letters IPL, with 'Someone involved with IPL/IGN/ZD...' and then address the argument I was making. You're so hung up on the fact that I asked IPL for a response you're completely ignoring the actual substance of the complaint or gravity of the situation. It's odd you're getting so hung up on something entirely insignficant to what is going on.
You blamed IPL. I'm saying don't blame IPL. If you're implying that you misspoke and didn't really mean to blame IPL (not sure why else you would tell me to replace what you wrote with something else) then say so.
jaw is completely on the floor. moving on...
You don't seem to have good logical reasoning lol. Otherwise you wouldn't think that your tangential argument regarding the "larger issue" and the "gravity of the situation" actually is relevant to my point about blaming IPL. I would try to walk you through it more but you're clearly not comprehending my point in any kind of precise manner.
Bankruptcy doesn't apply here because IGN is solvent. If it's cancelled, the ticket cost will be refunded no question. If they ever want to esports again, hotel and flight for the teams will be as well.
It's hotel and flight for eventgoers that's uncertain I would say.
On March 05 2013 08:50 ssg wrote: Well doesn't seem to be IPL content tonight. That's a rarity and a I think group d of the Korean qualifiers were scheduled.
Tonight was supposed to be a fight club or at least every other Monday has been. Since fight club recently got moved to HOTS it might just mean that the players were not able to play the series before the beta went down.
EPT
if this actually happens of course the one event I can go to perfect timing gets canceled/delayed. Sigh 
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