EPTIf they get better casting I'll prolly pay the $5.
EG & TL to Produce English Proleague Broadcasts - Page 48
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KobayshiMaru
United States30 Posts
If they get better casting I'll prolly pay the $5. | ||
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Jacmert
Canada1709 Posts
On December 27 2012 04:25 TotalBiscuit wrote: "I don't know anything about DOTA 2 but the casters were incredible, even though I have absolutely no frame of reference or any knowledge that would tell me whether or not they are any good!". Riiiiiight. If I rolled my eyes anymore I'd pass out. ACTUALLY, I watched some DOTA2 for the first time when Team Liquid was playing in some tournament/league, and I was REALLY impressed with their casting and one of their casters in particular. Really gifted guy (he sounded older and more mature than your average early 20's guy, too). Although it sounded like he had this tradition of ending every cast by reading out/pronouncing the name of literally EVERYONE in the stream chat. I was a little weirded out by that, lol. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
I figured I'd lose my credible stance mentioning that, but I'm more interested in seeing what else is out there than continuing to offer opportunities to those who already have it. I can see how people dislike SuperNovaManiac's casting, it needs some work. But I am 100% tolerant and accepting of both, regardless of my personal history with either. I just like seeing new people getting a chance to be involved beyond volunteer contributions. Mix that with how much casters affect a game for me (complimentary/not dictating towards my enjoyment) + actually enjoying some of the things they say shapes my overall opinion. | ||
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
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Eshra
France1009 Posts
On December 27 2012 04:09 farvacola wrote: No, his contributions to the scene make comparisons with run of the mill forum trolls rather empty. The man has put far more into the scene than practically any of the "trolls" you allude to, and accordingly he is given a different regard. The forum rules themselves outline this phenomena. He did and still does a lot for this scene, i've never denied it. Yet, SOMETIMES ( like I already said ), he acts like a kid on this forum. And that can't be denied as well. | ||
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Jacmert
Canada1709 Posts
On December 27 2012 04:25 TotalBiscuit wrote: Tyler said it best. This is KESPAs fault. They COULD have invested enough in a proper English setup in such a way that would attract casting talent to actually go out there to Korea. Heck they could even have contracted it out to an external organization to cast from a studio. ESL has a studio, MLG has a studio, NASL has a studio. Give em an in-game obs and a camera feed and you are pretty much golden. We were casting from a restream they were providing us, we had no in-game obs, we weren't allowed into the game to watch at all. There are far more solutions available than merely "pay 2 casters a bunch of money to go to Korea". I don't blame either of the current casters for taking the gig, but I do blame KESPA for handling the English broadcast situation poorly up to this point. I agree with you TB except for the point about the in-game obs, because while that would REALLY improve any cast, I think it would be too risky from a Battle.net perspective. I'm pretty sure that if an in-game obs starts lagging, it lags the entire game as well - or at LEAST if an in-game obs drops out of the game, the whole game is forced to pause until the 1 minute timer window completes. There's no way around this in SC2/Battle.net right now, correct? | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On December 27 2012 04:50 Jacmert wrote: ACTUALLY, I watched some DOTA2 for the first time when Team Liquid was playing in some tournament/league, and I was REALLY impressed with their casting and one of their casters in particular. Really gifted guy (he sounded older and more mature than your average early 20's guy, too). Although it sounded like he had this tradition of ending every cast by reading out/pronouncing the name of literally EVERYONE in the stream chat. I was a little weirded out by that, lol. You are probably talking about Ayesee who did professional broadcasting and probably has the best voice of all esports commentators (all games), or tobiwan. Neither cast at a very high level (artosis tier) but they do have great energy/pacing which fans latch onto. | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On December 27 2012 04:38 Torte de Lini wrote: I have pretty low standards for casters. They just compliment the game, they don't really make it or break it for me. I think they can improve, but I definitely like newer people casting than the same since early-2011. Eh, they still coulda tried to reach out for someone even a little more established. Even if it was someone like JoRoSaR. It seems like they just grabbed the first BW restreamer to blindly say YES!! to their (apparently meager) offer and pulled in some mediocre American "Pro" along the way. I don't even know how the hell they found Whiplash. The dude's been invisible for like 2 years now and wasn't even well known when he was visible. | ||
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felisconcolori
United States6168 Posts
On December 27 2012 04:51 goswser wrote: I don't think the numbers actually dropped 50-75% because of the new casters, I think a lot of the drop was due to the novelty wearing off, and the massive hype TL built around EGTL collapsing when they didn't perform very well. That being said they would obviously have higher numbers if they had more prominent casters working for them. I don't think it's really a factor of "prominent" casters - I mean, sure you could pull some more people in if you said it was Day[9] and Tasteless casting together with Artosis and Apollo refereeing the brothers (or something similarly absurd but full of "big" names) but I think what a lot of people are looking for is a production level at least up to where Ophidian (eff it. I can't remember how many "o"s) and Sayle were at in terms of having a relatively smooth, entertaining cast. People tuning into Proleague because it's Proleague are unhappy at the production value and casters because, dammit it's Proleague! People tuning in to see what the hype is about don't see the history, and may be getting turned off by the lack of production value and the relative inexperience / roughness of the casting duo in comparison to things like IPL who (while having some casters no one knows) still have people that deliver the commentary smoothly and with some game knowledge. And then there's the Proleague elite hipsters, who never watched the English cast and have no idea what we're talking about anyways because they adore Kim Carrier despite having no idea what he's saying. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On December 27 2012 04:56 Dosey wrote: Eh, they still coulda tried to reach out for someone even a little more established. Even if it was someone like JoRoSaR. It seems like they just grabbed the first BW restreamer to blindly say YES!! to their (apparently meager) offer and pulled in some mediocre American "Pro" along the way. I don't even know how the hell they found Whiplash. The dude's been invisible for like 2 years now and wasn't even well known when he was visible. I'm open to consider that. But like it's been mentioned, it's very hard to get some people out. They should have done what GSL did: auditions for a season or two, I don't know. JoRoSaR is with IPL, I doubt he'd go to Korea and maybe he asks for a lot. I don't know. Pushing for trying out different casters is something I liked with GSL, we saw fresh blood and different styles. | ||
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edlover420
349 Posts
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On December 27 2012 04:58 Torte de Lini wrote: I'm open to consider that. But like it's been mentioned, it's very hard to get some people out. They should have done what GSL did: auditions for a season or two, I don't know. JoRoSaR is with IPL, I doubt he'd go to Korea and maybe he asks for a lot. I don't know. Pushing for trying out different casters is something I liked with GSL, we saw fresh blood and different styles. I was just using JoRo as an example of someone relatively fresh in the scene who hasn't made a huge name for himself yet, but is still a solid caster with a couple events under his belt. Not saying that they should have reached out to him specifically. Who knows though, DoA left IPL for OGN and PL would be a better stage for establishing your brand than IPL, which has a constant rotation of casters. You do have a point with GSL though. I used to hate Khaldor and Wolf and now I can't imagine Code A without them. Granted, Khaldor wasn't exactly a fresh fish when GSL picked him up. (Don't know Wolfs history though) | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On December 27 2012 04:59 edlover420 wrote: Total Biscuit since you are reading this thread can you please stop saying BLUE TRUNKS and RED TRUNKS every single time you cast a game. Like it was nice to hear it first zillion times but it's not April 2010 anymore. Thanks. ya man, use skirts, pants or bikini sometimes. not sure why people pay so much attention to casters, personally i think having a good observer is much more important. | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On December 27 2012 05:03 Dosey wrote: I was just using JoRo as an example of someone relatively fresh in the scene who hasn't made a huge name for himself yet, but is still a solid caster with a couple events under his belt. Not saying that they should have reached out to him specifically. Who knows though, DoA left IPL for OGN and PL would be a better stage for establishing your brand than IPL, which has a constant rotation of casters. You do have a point with GSL though. I used to hate Khaldor and Wolf and now I can't imagine Code A without them. Granted, Khaldor wasn't exactly a fresh fish when GSL picked him up. (Don't know Wolfs history though) Agreed (: | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On December 27 2012 03:29 TotalBiscuit wrote: You know who is in a really good position to criticize casters? Other casters. Most of the people in this thread know next to nothing about how to cast an event, only what they personally want from their casters which is going to vary from person to person. Zero experience in events or the business behind eSports leads to fairly poor quality feedback. You're addressing a few different issues here and mixing them. - Ability to Cast a game - Ability to host an event - Experience in the esports business - Experience in being behind the scenes at an event. I very rarely see fans criticize casters for their ability to host an event. For casters like TB, Husky, Whiplash/SNM, etc the criticisms are almost exclusively regarding lack of game knowledge, lack of knowledge of players or making incorrect predictions. I think a lot of fans LOOK for these issues due to a predisposition to not like these casters in the first place. That doesn't make their criticisms invalid. It's much easier to pick out these errors than to appreciate accuracy. I had only been actively played dota2 for a couple weeks when The International 2 came around and even i was thinking to myself "X caster is fucking terrible, how is it that even I can recognize these mistakes after a month of play? I think the issue is that when you are dealing with casting a strategic game, there isn't a lot of subjective material - either your prediction as a caster is correct or it is wrong. The correctness is often apparent moments after you make the prediction (with great confidence). If you are right, it is just accepted as standard (you are the caster, so you should be right). If you are wrong, you will be publicly executed. You really have to be running at like a 98% accuracy rate (artosis tier) to get respect - whether that standard is fair or not is of course up to debate. Fans experience in esports business or running events has nothing to due with the validity of their criticism of a caster's game knowledge. I like commas and brackets. | ||
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zicoz
Norway212 Posts
On December 27 2012 04:28 TotalBiscuit wrote: You're right. Not contributing a single worthwhile sentence to this thread and focusing your efforts entirely on ad hominem attacks on me makes you a flamer. Sorry, but I'm not attacking you, I'm simply critiquing your behavior. There is a big difference there. Do you realty think that running around calling people children and making them out to be worthless is proper behavior for a person in your position? It's my impression that both you and other prominent casters were offered the job, and then to see casters that either turned it down or would have turned it down if they did get the offer come in and critique PL and the casters they ended up with is just silly when they themselves would not have been willing to "fix" it. I have no problem understanding that neither you, Apollo or any of the other well known casters thought this would be a good move, or even be possible at this point. But you lose the right to critique someone's job when you (would have) said no to it yourself. PL is a big tournament, and the way things were when you, Bitter, TLO and Adebisi were casting simply isn't good enough for such a tournament, it has nothing to do with the casters. If the casters are talking over each other and are not able to check on things like upgrades, buildings etc themselves you will end with a terrible end product for the viewer Big tournaments like MLG, IPL, GSL, PL and so on needs to have casters that are actually in the game, they don't have to be in the same studio, but they do need to be somewhere where their connection won't mess it up for the players, and for GSL/PL that mean that the caster has to be in Korea. That said, after watching lasts night VoDs it seemed to me that the casters that are there doesn't have their own observer rights either, which is just silly and needs to be fixed. | ||
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
Can you complain to ESPN about there sports casters? Sure,,, do they fucking care? No. Deal with it, or don't watch, plain and simple Nobody in this community is entitled to anything. Numbers are way too low for anyone to give a fuck about it. | ||
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zicoz
Norway212 Posts
On December 27 2012 04:51 goswser wrote: I don't think the numbers actually dropped 50-75% because of the new casters, I think a lot of the drop was due to the novelty wearing off, and the massive hype TL built around EGTL collapsing when they didn't perform very well. That being said they would obviously have higher numbers if they had more prominent casters working for them. If I'm not mistaken GSL ended up hovering in the 6-10k area on Twitch when they had to use them for their streaming a while back, dunno what their own3d numbers were though. So yeah, you can't really use stream numbers from the first couple of weeks in your arguments. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
Now, the level of production is just bad for something that is supposed to be the tournament to rule them all. Also please, don't fly out incontrol... | ||
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