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What happened with this thread?
TotalBuscuit is one of my favored casters, but the shit coming on current ProLeague casters is just too big.
I'm happy that I can watch PL with English commentary, and the casters are not SO BAD to made over-9000-posts thread disscussing how terrible they are.
I payed my 5$ for 8-months subscription and I'm getting VERY GOOD value of StarCraft II from it. New Players, new maps, new styles-of-play and watching Flash play - that is PURE awesomeness, and not-so-best-in-the-world-english-casters aren't enough to make me regret spending less-than-bigmac-$$$ for subscription.
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TotalBiscuit, you can be such a child sometimes. And sorry, but THIS is not helping this " terrible community " to get better either.
You are like every " troll " you claim to stand up against.
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Let's get back on subject, shall we? To me, this is another indication that KeSPA didn't invest the resources or effort required into the English stream. One of the clearest ways to see this is their "decision" to charge only $5 for the entire Proleague season, and via a Twitch subscription, which I believe means that Twitch gets HALF of it.
In other words, even if EVERY VIEWER they had on stream converted to being a paying subscriber (around 27k, let's say), they would only get 27k x $5 x 1/2 = $67,500. To be more realistic, you would have to expect something MUCH lower than a 100% subscribe rate, and if it was 20% (which I think is REALLY high), this means KeSPA/IEG would be getting something on the order of $14,000 for 7.5 months of Proleague. Does this look like a viable business model to anyone?
No, it's not. And I think it's because KeSPA/IEG didn't put the time and effort into investing in an English stream they could make money off of.
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On December 27 2012 04:05 Eshra wrote:
TotalBiscuit, you can be such a child sometimes. And sorry, but THIS is not helping this " terrible community " to get better either.
You are like every " troll " you claim to stand up against.
Prove it. Let me guess, this is another case of completely ignoring the paragraphs I wrote on the subject and fixating on replies to one random shithead?
Not one person has actually tried to tackle that, they've merely engaged in stupid ad hominems and mewling attempts at character assassination. THAT is why this community sucks and can't discuss anything serious.
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On December 27 2012 04:07 Jacmert wrote:
Let's get back on subject, shall we? To me, this is another indication that KeSPA didn't invest the resources or effort required into the English stream. One of the clearest ways to see this is their "decision" to charge only $5 for the entire Proleague season, and via a Twitch subscription, which I believe means that Twitch gets HALF of it.
In other words, even if EVERY VIEWER they had on stream converted to being a paying subscriber (around 27k, let's say), they would only get 27k x $5 x 1/2 = $67,500. To be more realistic, you would have to expect something MUCH lower than a 100% subscribe rate, and if it was 20% (which I think is REALLY high), this means KeSPA/IEG would be getting something on the order of $14,000 for 7.5 months of Proleague. Does this look like a viable business model to anyone?
No, it's not. And I think it's because KeSPA/IEG didn't put the time and effort into investing in an English stream they could make money off of.
Yes, please let's do. I did a double-take when I saw the subscription price of $5. I was certain it was a monthly amount, but the entire league? Anyway I hope there is a constructive end to this situation.
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On December 27 2012 04:05 Eshra wrote:
TotalBiscuit, you can be such a child sometimes. And sorry, but THIS is not helping this " terrible community " to get better either.
You are like every " troll " you claim to stand up against.
No, his contributions to the scene make comparisons with run of the mill forum trolls rather empty. The man has put far more into the scene than practically any of the "trolls" you allude to, and accordingly he is given a different regard. The forum rules themselves outline this phenomena.
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On December 27 2012 04:03 Ch3rry wrote:
I'm happy that I can watch PL with English commentary, and the casters are not SO BAD to made over-9000-posts thread disscussing how terrible they are.
I payed my 5$ for 8-months subscription and I'm getting VERY GOOD value of StarCraft II from it. New Players, new maps, new styles-of-play and watching Flash play - that is PURE awesomeness, and not-so-best-in-the-world-english-casters aren't enough to make me regret spending less-than-bigmac-$$$ for subscription.
I agree that $5 for us as viewers is a GOOD deal. I'm definitely satisfied with it, because it's practically free. I've only seen a little bit of PL with the new casters, and while I'm not "impressed", I don't feel the need to mute them.
HOWEVER, I don't think KeSPA/IEG should be praised for only charging $5, because to me that's a signal that they aren't too interested in making their English stream better.
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On December 27 2012 03:58 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 03:57 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 03:53 TotalBiscuit wrote:On December 27 2012 03:52 FreudianTrip wrote:
"Out of the blue" haha. Ah yes, not addressing the issue. The classic escape mechanism. GL HF in the future. The issue? "YOUR CASTING IS SHIT AND I HATE YOU" is not an issue, it's a petulant flame. Could you y'know, leave the room while the grown-ups are talking? I've got some megablox you could play with. He's saying a bit more than that. We aren't talking about WaxAngel And that will never change. This community has too much bullshit that needs calling out and someone has to do it. Fuck the flamers, fuck those that protect them.
Ah thank you, thank you oh righteous one for doing that...... Because everyone who doesn't like your bloated ego must be haters and flamers right, they can't just be normal people that simply aren't mesmerized by your constant shouting?
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On December 27 2012 04:09 zicoz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 03:58 TotalBiscuit wrote:On December 27 2012 03:57 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 03:53 TotalBiscuit wrote:On December 27 2012 03:52 FreudianTrip wrote:
"Out of the blue" haha. Ah yes, not addressing the issue. The classic escape mechanism. GL HF in the future. The issue? "YOUR CASTING IS SHIT AND I HATE YOU" is not an issue, it's a petulant flame. Could you y'know, leave the room while the grown-ups are talking? I've got some megablox you could play with. He's saying a bit more than that. We aren't talking about WaxAngel How fucking TB of you. And that will never change. This community has too much bullshit that needs calling out and someone has to do it. Fuck the flamers, fuck those that protect them. Ah thank you, thank you oh righteous one for doing that...... Because everyone who doesn't like your bloated ego must be haters and flamers right, they can't just be normal people that simply aren't mesmerized by your constant shouting?
Your worthwhile contributions to this thread : 0 posts.
So yeah, you are indeed nothing more than a hater and flamer. None of your strawman logic will change that.
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On December 27 2012 04:09 Jacmert wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 04:03 Ch3rry wrote:
I'm happy that I can watch PL with English commentary, and the casters are not SO BAD to made over-9000-posts thread disscussing how terrible they are.
I payed my 5$ for 8-months subscription and I'm getting VERY GOOD value of StarCraft II from it. New Players, new maps, new styles-of-play and watching Flash play - that is PURE awesomeness, and not-so-best-in-the-world-english-casters aren't enough to make me regret spending less-than-bigmac-$$$ for subscription. I agree that $5 for us as viewers is a GOOD deal. I'm definitely satisfied with it, because it's practically free. I've only seen a little bit of PL with the new casters, and while I'm not "impressed", I don't feel the need to mute them. HOWEVER, I don't think KeSPA/IEG should be praised for only charging $5, because to me that's a signal that they aren't too interested in making their English stream better.
There's absolutely no way, at all, that an English stream can be profitable for KeSPA/IEG at that price point, unless they pay the entirety of their English production crew (including casters) peanuts. Even advertising revenue wouldn't bring it up that much, and paying a living salary (ie, something they could live on reasonably) to a caster would eat that pretty quickly alongside bandwidth costs.
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It seems TB is the only intelligent human being in this thread. Not really sure if anyone else is actually a human being.
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On December 27 2012 04:18 The_Stampede wrote:
It seems TB is the only intelligent human being in this thread. Not really sure if anyone else is actually a human being.
well.. they are Humans... not so sure about the intellectual part though.
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On December 27 2012 03:29 TotalBiscuit wrote:
You wanna know the reason why some casters are talking about this issue? Because it's in our best interests not to see Proleague fall flat on it's arse. The more Kespa realizes that the foreign audience is actually important, the better off the scene will be. What happened when they switched out casters? A 50-75% drop in audience that hasn't recovered yet. Like it or not prominent casters have an audience of their own that they can bring to the table. Remember when tournaments would get half the views if they didn't have Tastosis or Day[9] casting? That was a while ago but the effect is still there to a lesser degree, particularly when you're watching a bunch of unfamiliar Koreans in a strange format. If you lose your audience because you don't have a casting duo that can keep them, you're in trouble. Kespa as a result views the foreign audience as unimportant, stops cooperating with foreign organizations and we get back into a BW-esque situation of foreigners becoming a niche that's not catered to. It benefits nobody.
The audience drop is a definite factor. I enjoyed TB and MB casting together, even with the technical glitches and stream crashes. I can state that the first day I watched the English cast post-TB/MB I went to bed early (earlier?). Yes I could have muted the stream, watched the Korean stream, etc. but none of these options interested me at the moment.
It pains me to see such a large viewership drop for THE LEAGUE and I don't want to even consider a repeat of the BW Korean/foreigner scene.
I hope for an improvement in the casting situation of some sort, but I fear importing well-known casters is a long-shot at best since most of them have stable, long-term commitments. Of course, this is both good for the casters and the scene, but not for a potential solution to the English casting of Proleague.
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TB, you need to realize that not everyone will like you. I don't even like you. But that doesn't make me a raging forum troll or hater or whatever. It's getting pathetic to see you try to defend yourself by whining about it. You are turning into iNcontroL... c'mon man, don't go that low.
I don't see how you can try to defend the old boys club that is Starcraft eSports. There is a casters club or whatever you want to call it, there is no denying it. Everyone knows. You just make it look worse than it already is by raging at everyone that mentions it. You look desperate.
Just let it go, continue casting, and enjoy your eSports dollars. Yeah PL casters suck, but so do all casters in this game. I watched DOTA 2 at DH and the casting was amazing. I don't even play DOTA 2 (I didn't know anything about it) but I watched it all weekend. It is sad that SC2 doesn't have any good casters like that, but the community has already adapted to listening to bullshit all weekend long during tournaments. It isn't a PL problem, it's an SC2 problem.
The PL guys even admit they are bad and are trying to get better. I much prefer that over what our current casters do, which is just cover up their shit casting and bash all of the "haters", then whine and complain about the community. You should be thankful that there is still a community left that puts up with this game's casters at all.
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On December 27 2012 04:20 Ldawg wrote:
The audience drop is a definite factor. I enjoyed TB and MB casting together, even with the technical glitches and stream crashes. I can state that the first day I watched the English cast post-TB/MB I went to bed early (earlier?). Yes I could have muted the stream, watched the Korean stream, etc. but none of these options interested me at the moment.
It pains me to see such a large viewership drop for THE LEAGUE and I don't want to even consider a repeat of the BW Korean/foreigner scene.
I hope for an improvement in the casting situation of some sort, but I fear importing well-known casters is a long-shot at best since most of them have stable, long-term commitments. Of course, this is both good for the casters and the scene, but not for a potential solution to the English casting of Proleague.
Tyler said it best. This is KESPAs fault. They COULD have invested enough in a proper English setup in such a way that would attract casting talent to actually go out there to Korea. Heck they could even have contracted it out to an external organization to cast from a studio. ESL has a studio, MLG has a studio, NASL has a studio. Give em an in-game obs and a camera feed and you are pretty much golden. We were casting from a restream they were providing us, we had no in-game obs, we weren't allowed into the game to watch at all. There are far more solutions available than merely "pay 2 casters a bunch of money to go to Korea". I don't blame either of the current casters for taking the gig, but I do blame KESPA for handling the English broadcast situation poorly up to this point.
You should be thankful that there is still a community left that puts up with this game's casters at all.
LOL. And that my friends is entitlement in action. Holy shit I should frame that quote as the shining golden example of what the vocal minority of this "community" has become.
. I don't even play DOTA 2 (I didn't know anything about it) but I watched it all weekend. It is sad that SC2 doesn't have any good casters like that
"I don't know anything about DOTA 2 but the casters were incredible, even though I have absolutely no frame of reference or any knowledge that would tell me whether or not they are any good!". Riiiiiight. If I rolled my eyes anymore I'd pass out.
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Proleague gives some great Starcraft, has an actual long and consistent regular season like most other popular team sports, and only costs $5. Thus, I am fine with whatever they do with casting. I love Husky, TotalBiscuit would be great, Doa is a good caster and a great SCII personality; I would be very happy with any of them. The casters now aren't great and are unfamiliar, but whatever, I would watch CJ vs SKT-T1 being casted by the Apple autoreader.
That being said, I really do miss Sayle restreaming PL and just commentating over the Korean casters. I even remember a few times when the Korean casters got really excited when not much was happening and Sayle would get confused trying to figure out what they were yelling about. I always enjoyed those casts.
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On December 27 2012 04:10 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 04:09 zicoz wrote:On December 27 2012 03:58 TotalBiscuit wrote:On December 27 2012 03:57 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 03:53 TotalBiscuit wrote:On December 27 2012 03:52 FreudianTrip wrote:
"Out of the blue" haha. Ah yes, not addressing the issue. The classic escape mechanism. GL HF in the future. The issue? "YOUR CASTING IS SHIT AND I HATE YOU" is not an issue, it's a petulant flame. Could you y'know, leave the room while the grown-ups are talking? I've got some megablox you could play with. He's saying a bit more than that. We aren't talking about WaxAngel How fucking TB of you. And that will never change. This community has too much bullshit that needs calling out and someone has to do it. Fuck the flamers, fuck those that protect them. Ah thank you, thank you oh righteous one for doing that...... Because everyone who doesn't like your bloated ego must be haters and flamers right, they can't just be normal people that simply aren't mesmerized by your constant shouting? Your worthwhile contributions to this thread : 0 posts. So yeah, you are indeed nothing more than a hater and flamer. None of your strawman logic will change that.
Really TB? You're a grown man, you're a caster, a team sponsor and you are the public face of the same team. Do you really think that your behavior in this thread reflects positive on any of the things you're affiliated with?
Not liking your behavior doesn't make me a hater or a flamer.
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On December 27 2012 04:28 zicoz wrote:
Really TB? You're a grown man, you're a caster, a team sponsor and you are the public face of the same team. Do you really think that your behavior in this thread reflects positive on any of the things you're affiliated with?
Not liking your behavior doesn't make me a hater or a flamer.
You're right. Not contributing a single worthwhile sentence to this thread and focusing your efforts entirely on ad hominem attacks on me makes you a flamer.
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On December 27 2012 04:28 zicoz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 04:10 TotalBiscuit wrote:On December 27 2012 04:09 zicoz wrote:On December 27 2012 03:58 TotalBiscuit wrote:On December 27 2012 03:57 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 27 2012 03:53 TotalBiscuit wrote:On December 27 2012 03:52 FreudianTrip wrote:
"Out of the blue" haha. Ah yes, not addressing the issue. The classic escape mechanism. GL HF in the future. The issue? "YOUR CASTING IS SHIT AND I HATE YOU" is not an issue, it's a petulant flame. Could you y'know, leave the room while the grown-ups are talking? I've got some megablox you could play with. He's saying a bit more than that. We aren't talking about WaxAngel How fucking TB of you. And that will never change. This community has too much bullshit that needs calling out and someone has to do it. Fuck the flamers, fuck those that protect them. Ah thank you, thank you oh righteous one for doing that...... Because everyone who doesn't like your bloated ego must be haters and flamers right, they can't just be normal people that simply aren't mesmerized by your constant shouting? Your worthwhile contributions to this thread : 0 posts. So yeah, you are indeed nothing more than a hater and flamer. None of your strawman logic will change that. Really TB? You're a grown man, you're a caster, a team sponsor and you are the public face of the same team. Do you really think that your behavior in this thread reflects positive on any of the things you're affiliated with? Not liking your behavior doesn't make me a hater or a flamer.
No one likes the fact that you have nothing to say that matters. You're just here to flame, little guy. I heard he has Megablocks, I really hope you use them to take the edge off.
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United States22883 Posts
On December 27 2012 04:25 TotalBiscuit wrote:
We were casting from a restream they were providing us, we had no in-game obs, we weren't allowed into the game to watch at all.
This is what I'm most confused about with the whole thing, because I believe SNM and Whiplash are also casting from a restream. At least they mentioned they're not able to bring up unit tabs, so they must not be in-game obsing. Is this going to change at some point? If not, then I don't understand the purpose of in-person casting.
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EPT
