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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9631

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-04 15:22:08
January 04 2018 15:21 GMT
#192601
Let's hear what Mooch has to say.


Former White House adviser Steve Bannon’s reported criticism of Donald Trump Jr.’s 2016 meeting with the Russians is “absolutely ridiculous,” former White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci said today.

“I didn’t go to that meeting. And so I don’t know all of the details related to the meeting,” Scaramucci said on ABC News’ “Good Morning America.”

“But to say somebody is treasonous in doing something against the interests of the United States because they took a meeting is absolutely ridiculous."

Scaramucci added, "This is absolutely ridiculous he would make a statement like that if he made the statement.”


www.yahoo.com
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21939 Posts
January 04 2018 15:22 GMT
#192602
On January 05 2018 00:18 Nebuchad wrote:
He's about to get dumped isn't he.

Trump? No.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 04 2018 15:27 GMT
#192603
Louisiana is so fucked part 2. Safe bet would estimate in this next decade a US state will need a bailout in order save the citizens from Climate Change.

Every time it rains, Ollie Williams gets the boats ready. She keeps a small fiberglass canoe tied to the bottom of her front steps, a metal flatboat tied to the side of the house, paddles and life jackets at the ready.

Williams and her husband, Daniel, already raised their double-wide trailer up on wooden stilts, 13 feet in the air, so the inside stays dry. But when it rains, the yard can fill quickly with several feet of water, lifting the canoe up the tall steps out front.

If the storm is bad enough, the family grabs go-bags full of documents and photos and paddles to higher ground, where they've hopefully remembered to move the cars beforehand. Then they call family or friends for help.

"This is where we wanted to be forever," says Ollie Williams. The couple grew up here near Slidell, east of New Orleans, and they say flooding didn't use to be this bad. "We wanted to build our home with our family, have memories."

But now she's fed up and thinks her family should move to a safer place.

For thousands of households where flooding is only expected to get worse, the state of Louisiana agrees. The state has even crafted a plan to buy out the most vulnerable homes along the coast, many of which are occupied by elderly and poor residents who stayed after Hurricane Katrina. But officials say there is no money to put that plan into action.

Louisiana is far from the only place struggling to cope with increased flooding and sea level rise, problems scientists say will only grow worse as the climate continues to warm. Hurricane Harvey's record rainfall in Houston last summer spurred calls to expand a home buyout program, but funding is an issue.

After Superstorm Sandy, New York offered a large-scale buyout program in hard-hit Staten Island, but some residents were reluctant to accept. For a decade, Alaska has been seeking help to relocate coastal communities where thawing permafrost and strong storms are severely eroding the land. And the beach town of Del Mar, Calif., recently dropped a proposal to tear down homes in a "managed retreat" from sea level rise, after residents worried that even considering the option would hurt their property values.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency encourages communities to make themselves more resilient to flooding, offering lower flood insurance rates in return. But the agency is struggling to update its flood maps, which generally don't take sea level rise into account. That has led Annapolis, Md., to start creating its own maps so property owners can know whether they're at risk.


Louisiana is losing land faster than just about anywhere else in the world. Since the 1930s, nearly 2,000 square miles — a land mass about the size of Delaware — have washed away into the Gulf of Mexico. The reasons include sinking land, rising sea levels, damage from the dredging of canals by oil companies and the brutal impact of storm surges and hurricanes. Coastal marshes act as a buffer for storms, so the less land there is, the bigger the threat to residents.

For a decade, the state has been working to build up its coast, re-creating barrier islands and planting new marshes. It created a coastal agency and a Coastal Master Plan, updated every five years. But in its latest plan, the 2017 Coastal Master Plan, officials admit they can't save all the land. They say people will have to move.

"I think it's important to note that this is really the first time we've had this level of discussion about this sensitive of a topic," says Bren Haase, a planner with the Coastal Protection and Restoration Authority.

When the last plan simply mentioned the possibility of buyouts, the agency head at the time, now-Rep. Garret Graves, R-La., says there were some "very upset people literally threatening us with our lives."

In its most recent report, the agency worked with the Rand Corp. and the state's new Water Institute of the Gulf to model the most vulnerable areas. Using data on elevation, sea level rise and storm surge, the CPRA calculates that 23,000 buildings near the coast would flood 3-12 feet during a hundred-year storm. (That's a storm with a 1 percent chance of happening any given year). The report says such homeowners should elevate their houses.

The agency says 2,400 households could flood more than 12 feet during a major storm, and it lays out a detailed program to buy them out. Under it, the state would pay fair market value for the homes, demolish them, then pay for new houses farther north. But the buyout program is on paper only. Planner Haase says it would cost $1.2 billion, money the state does not have.

Louisiana does have billions of dollars to restore its coast. That's mostly from a settlement with BP after its devastating oil spill in 2010. Officials also expect millions of dollars annually from the sale of oil and gas leases in the Gulf. But Haase says most of these funds are restricted and cannot be used to buy people's homes and move them.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
January 04 2018 15:27 GMT
#192604
On January 05 2018 00:05 farvacola wrote:
I don't think an arbitrary age line makes too much sense; there are plenty of senior status federal judges still as sharp as ever and some are pushing 80. That said, we should be able to screen candidates more thoroughly.


Yeah it’s not about “people over X age can’t be president” so much as people who are older need more thorough, possible third party, medical examination and regular exams to detect problems early.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9629 Posts
January 04 2018 15:30 GMT
#192605
On January 04 2018 23:06 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:

this’ll be interesting. i imagine it will force Congress’s hand to finally address pot
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21939 Posts
January 04 2018 15:32 GMT
#192606
On January 05 2018 00:27 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2018 00:05 farvacola wrote:
I don't think an arbitrary age line makes too much sense; there are plenty of senior status federal judges still as sharp as ever and some are pushing 80. That said, we should be able to screen candidates more thoroughly.


Yeah it’s not about “people over X age can’t be president” so much as people who are older need more thorough, possible third party, medical examination and regular exams to detect problems early.

But Trumps doctor said he was the most healthy person he had ever seen! /s
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-04 15:35:36
January 04 2018 15:34 GMT
#192607
On January 05 2018 00:30 brian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2018 23:06 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/AP/status/948911752267423745

this’ll be interesting. i imagine it will force Congress’s hand to finally address pot


And if the Democrats had any clue how to run a campaign would campaign hard on this and sweep 2018. But won't.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9629 Posts
January 04 2018 15:35 GMT
#192608
On January 05 2018 00:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2018 00:30 brian wrote:
On January 04 2018 23:06 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/AP/status/948911752267423745

this’ll be interesting. i imagine it will force Congress’s hand to finally address pot


And if the Democrats had any clue how to run a campaign would campaign hard and sweep.

agree, this will only backfire on the GOP again, as so many recent decisions have and continue to. 2018 gonna be a hell of an election.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
January 04 2018 15:35 GMT
#192609
On January 05 2018 00:30 brian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2018 23:06 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/AP/status/948911752267423745

this’ll be interesting. i imagine it will force Congress’s hand to finally address pot

not necessarily; congress could just bicker/ignore the issue for the duration and let a later AG reverse the policy again. Or they could pass a law to do just enough to avoid dealing with the issue again. we all know they certainly don' twant to deal with it; and there's lots of ways of avoiding something.
there don't appear to be any underlying details in that tweet; there's a lot of different policies, and responses would depend on which exact policies would be changed.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 04 2018 15:59 GMT
#192610
People already have advanced copies of the books, never mind retailers.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
January 04 2018 16:18 GMT
#192611


We have a winner of the tie.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
January 04 2018 16:25 GMT
#192612
On January 03 2018 16:01 mozoku wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2018 21:01 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
@mozoku:
This is kinda "the sky is blue" of American politics, but I'll humor you.

It's very well known that the middle class itself has suffered since around the 1980's, at least in terms of income. That's everywhere, and every damn newspaper and research center has something on it. Here's the Centre on Budget and Policy Priorities' nice little graphic:

[image loading]

Attributing policy to economic change is not trivial, but it is important to note that Reagan came into power right at the splitting point: just after 1980.
Once of the first major events of his presidency was his handling of a massive strike. And by handling, I mean he told the workers to go **** themselves. This very strong anti-labour action sent a strong message - unions and organised workers no longer had any real bargaining power as of then.

Democracynow analysis of the Patco strike

NYTimes op-ed on Patco Strike

While both pieces have a very different view of Reagan's personal ideals, there's no disagreement in the effect of Reagan's decisions regarding unions. It would not be at all surprising to see income disparity after middle and working class people lost their negotiating power, and that is exactly what happened.

The myriad of tax cuts and opposition to programs like proper healthcare haven't helped at all, but effectively giving all power to decide wages and salaries to those who already have economic power, is IMO far and away the biggest action the Republican establishment has taken to screw the middle class over.

It's important to note that a lot of the problem is what the government hasn't done. Companies already have legal teams, money and time. They don't need their interests to be quite as carefully looked after. Corporate welfare is a sick joke. However their average worker most certainly does not have these things, so in order to maintain a semblance of balance, to have the interests of the middle class protected, government needs to pro-actively support them. They need to ensure unions have some bite and to spend on programs like healthcare. This is why progressives, by and large, don't have very good opinions of libertarian viewpoints. It's why they outright despise the Republican party, because their deliberate refusal to give workers any negotiating power, and their deliberate obstructionism with regards to healthcare and social spending, is as good as telling the average citizen to get ****ed and accept slave wages when their employer decides they want to have a bit more money.

Apologies for late reply. Busy work day.

You're making the exact mistake that I thought you would, and mistakenly attributing to the government that which is actually the result of technology-driven economic shifts.

First mistake: the middle class isn't simply deteriorating away into poverty. It's bifurcating into winners and losers, which is the expected outcome of the shift to the knowledge economy and globalization. The driver of inequality, therefore, isn't government policy but economic shifts. Unions are part of this story, as it's a global trend. While globalization has certainly hurt American laborers and benefited higher earners, it's also brought raised the living standards of untold millions, if not billions, in the developing world. You can make a valid argument that the US should be prioritizing its domestic workers ahead of foreigners, but liberals and leftists who believe the US government is out to screw the middle class almost invariably despise the nationalist/protectionist view so that isn't your ticket either.

Next mistake: blaming the US tax code. Granted the tax code just changed, but the previous tax regime had been the most progressive tax code among developed countries. However, the progressive tax revenue hasn't been redistributed to the middle- and lower- classes. I suspect that has to do with the fact that America subsidizes a large share of the world's defense--seeing as most of the developed world spends about a than a third of as much on defense as the US (as a share of GDP, which is already somewhat biased against the US). [1] [2]

There's one reason you listed that I haven't yet touched: social programs. The two that I commonly hear about are education and healthcare. US healthcare is a mess, but there's been highly publicized efforts from both sides to reform the system in the past decade. The system will likely look completely different in another 10 years.

The suggested education policies I've seen that focus on expanding college access are moronic, as I've explained in an earlier post.
--------------
Despite all of the crying about lobbyists, campaign funding, Trump's profiting off the presidency, etc., there isn't much actual evidence that all of this has amounted to policies that have destroyed the middle class to line the pockets of the rich. The reality is that the shift in income in favor the upper and upper-middle class are economy and technology-driven, and that the government can't simply wave a magic wand to fix the problem.

Health care seems like the lowest hanging fruit, and unsurprisingly it's been the biggest political issue of the past two presidencies.

Bifurcation sounds like the labor market signaling for more high skilled workers. Should we not oblige?
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15723 Posts
January 04 2018 16:56 GMT
#192613
So I've been going over worst case scenarios and here's what I've got:

Bannon/Wolff are using this as a way to show how damaging fake news can be. This entire thing is an elaborate ruse. Then they coordinate to have an intended streisand effect by pretending to try to prevent it from being published once lots of copies are already floating around. Then when the "book ban" doesn't work, Bannon makes bazillions of dollaz off of showing liberal fake news is just so fake.

I don't think that'll happen, but I am puckered in case it does.
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
January 04 2018 17:04 GMT
#192614
On January 05 2018 01:56 Mohdoo wrote:
So I've been going over worst case scenarios and here's what I've got:

Bannon/Wolff are using this as a way to show how damaging fake news can be. This entire thing is an elaborate ruse. Then they coordinate to have an intended streisand effect by pretending to try to prevent it from being published once lots of copies are already floating around. Then when the "book ban" doesn't work, Bannon makes bazillions of dollaz off of showing liberal fake news is just so fake.

I don't think that'll happen, but I am puckered in case it does.


I think its really hard to scream "LOOK AT THE FAKE NEWS" when you're the one creating it.

It is hard to go look at all the liars when you're the liar
Something witty
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-04 17:04:56
January 04 2018 17:04 GMT
#192615
On January 05 2018 01:56 Mohdoo wrote:
So I've been going over worst case scenarios and here's what I've got:

Bannon/Wolff are using this as a way to show how damaging fake news can be. This entire thing is an elaborate ruse. Then they coordinate to have an intended streisand effect by pretending to try to prevent it from being published once lots of copies are already floating around. Then when the "book ban" doesn't work, Bannon makes bazillions of dollaz off of showing liberal fake news is just so fake.

I don't think that'll happen, but I am puckered in case it does.



Except.....

"Scoop: Wolff taped interviews with Bannon, top officials"

https://www.axios.com/how-michael-wolff-did-it-2522360813.html
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5755 Posts
January 04 2018 17:09 GMT
#192616
I'm sorry to see Bannon and Trump breaking up as Bannon hates the GOP establishment and the Bushes and so on, but why on earth would he be going after the Trumps? Panicking that his party revolt is losing steam after Alabama?

On January 05 2018 00:01 Seuss wrote:
The repetition angle is worrisome because that’s exactly the same thing that happened to my grandmother as her health declined.

I mean she always retread topics endlessly, but when she was healthy it was more riffs on the same idea than repetition. As she got older the variations gave way to repetiton, and the conversational cycles got shorter and shorter.

This just in, maybe we shouldn’t elect people age 70+ to the highest stress job in the country.

It's not his optimum presidential age obviously, but isn't short-term memory what goes first?

Can you even imagine how many relationships and acquaintances and names he's been through? With that lifestyle and over that many years. How many people do we have in our contacts? Not hard to keep track of. If I were to hazard a guess I would imagine "old friends" was people bitter their relationship didn't mean the same to Trump as it meant to them.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15723 Posts
January 04 2018 17:13 GMT
#192617
On January 05 2018 02:09 oBlade wrote:
I'm sorry to see Bannon and Trump breaking up as Bannon hates the GOP establishment and the Bushes and so on, but why on earth would he be going after the Trumps? Panicking that his party revolt is losing steam after Alabama?

Show nested quote +
On January 05 2018 00:01 Seuss wrote:
The repetition angle is worrisome because that’s exactly the same thing that happened to my grandmother as her health declined.

I mean she always retread topics endlessly, but when she was healthy it was more riffs on the same idea than repetition. As she got older the variations gave way to repetiton, and the conversational cycles got shorter and shorter.

This just in, maybe we shouldn’t elect people age 70+ to the highest stress job in the country.

It's not his optimum presidential age obviously, but isn't short-term memory what goes first?

Can you even imagine how many relationships and acquaintances and names he's been through? With that lifestyle and over that many years. How many people do we have in our contacts? Not hard to keep track of. If I were to hazard a guess I would imagine "old friends" was people bitter their relationship didn't mean the same to Trump as it meant to them.


Nepotism isn't good for productivity or effectiveness. There's a lot of purging and change that needs to happen in the eyes of Bannon. Having a bunch of incompetent idiots with no experience doing this kinda thing just hurts the cause. The Trumps are a liability. Jared shouldn't be handling the middle east. People with 20 years of experience in middle eastern policy should. Ivanka shouldn't be talking to Japanese diplomats. People with 20 years of eastern asia diplomacy should be. I think it is easy to make the case that Trump could find people willing to do his bidding without them being his extremely inexperienced children.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-04 17:53:07
January 04 2018 17:39 GMT
#192618
On January 05 2018 02:09 oBlade wrote:
I'm sorry to see Bannon and Trump breaking up as Bannon hates the GOP establishment and the Bushes and so on, but why on earth would he be going after the Trumps? Panicking that his party revolt is losing steam after Alabama?


what about the old simple answer: for the money.
also, why not go after the trumps?
I mean, whatever reasons you have for supportin ghis hate of the bushes, there must surely be plenty of suitable reasons to hate the trumps as well.

(oh yeah, and like the guy below me said, that he was removed from the white house also seems like reason enough)
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21939 Posts
January 04 2018 17:42 GMT
#192619
On January 05 2018 02:09 oBlade wrote:
I'm sorry to see Bannon and Trump breaking up as Bannon hates the GOP establishment and the Bushes and so on, but why on earth would he be going after the Trumps? Panicking that his party revolt is losing steam after Alabama?

Show nested quote +
On January 05 2018 00:01 Seuss wrote:
The repetition angle is worrisome because that’s exactly the same thing that happened to my grandmother as her health declined.

I mean she always retread topics endlessly, but when she was healthy it was more riffs on the same idea than repetition. As she got older the variations gave way to repetiton, and the conversational cycles got shorter and shorter.

This just in, maybe we shouldn’t elect people age 70+ to the highest stress job in the country.

It's not his optimum presidential age obviously, but isn't short-term memory what goes first?

Can you even imagine how many relationships and acquaintances and names he's been through? With that lifestyle and over that many years. How many people do we have in our contacts? Not hard to keep track of. If I were to hazard a guess I would imagine "old friends" was people bitter their relationship didn't mean the same to Trump as it meant to them.

You think this book was written after Alabama?

I imagine Bannon isn't happy that he got kicked out of the White House and no longer considers Trump an ally in the fight against 'the government'.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7917 Posts
January 04 2018 18:10 GMT
#192620
On January 05 2018 02:13 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2018 02:09 oBlade wrote:
I'm sorry to see Bannon and Trump breaking up as Bannon hates the GOP establishment and the Bushes and so on, but why on earth would he be going after the Trumps? Panicking that his party revolt is losing steam after Alabama?

On January 05 2018 00:01 Seuss wrote:
The repetition angle is worrisome because that’s exactly the same thing that happened to my grandmother as her health declined.

I mean she always retread topics endlessly, but when she was healthy it was more riffs on the same idea than repetition. As she got older the variations gave way to repetiton, and the conversational cycles got shorter and shorter.

This just in, maybe we shouldn’t elect people age 70+ to the highest stress job in the country.

It's not his optimum presidential age obviously, but isn't short-term memory what goes first?

Can you even imagine how many relationships and acquaintances and names he's been through? With that lifestyle and over that many years. How many people do we have in our contacts? Not hard to keep track of. If I were to hazard a guess I would imagine "old friends" was people bitter their relationship didn't mean the same to Trump as it meant to them.


Nepotism isn't good for productivity or effectiveness. There's a lot of purging and change that needs to happen in the eyes of Bannon. Having a bunch of incompetent idiots with no experience doing this kinda thing just hurts the cause. The Trumps are a liability. Jared shouldn't be handling the middle east. People with 20 years of experience in middle eastern policy should. Ivanka shouldn't be talking to Japanese diplomats. People with 20 years of eastern asia diplomacy should be. I think it is easy to make the case that Trump could find people willing to do his bidding without them being his extremely inexperienced children.

Then again, neither should a megalomaniac crook with no other political experience than conspiracy mongering be handling the presidency.

That’s the problem of the populist, anti system, anti elite, anti etablishment position. It’s very unfortunate but running a big place like the US is harder it looks and requires some experience. That’s why there are elites, why there is a system and why there is an establishment in the first place.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
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