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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9504

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 13 2017 03:37 GMT
#190061
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 03:38:48
December 13 2017 03:38 GMT
#190062
On December 13 2017 12:36 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2017 12:36 Plansix wrote:
What lead does he need to be recount proof?


0.5%. Which he is on track to beat, I think, barring some really weird late Moore leaning counties.

Specifically, he needs to have a lead > 0.5% (looks like he will)

0.5% would still trigger a recount.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 03:39:14
December 13 2017 03:38 GMT
#190063
On December 13 2017 12:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/Bencjacobs/status/940787630098272256


Can't blame them, they paid for an a capella group. That shit's expensive.
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
December 13 2017 03:39 GMT
#190064
Even if Jones wins, it's pretty frightening that it's still this close. Though I guess it's an uptick for Alabama even then.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
December 13 2017 03:40 GMT
#190065
Reminder that Cook moved the Tenessee race into the tossup category after a former governor joined the race.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
mozoku
Profile Joined September 2012
United States708 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 03:42:35
December 13 2017 03:41 GMT
#190066
On December 13 2017 12:33 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2017 12:29 mozoku wrote:
On December 13 2017 12:08 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 12:06 mozoku wrote:
I'm in agreement with Plansix on the value of this Upshot model. It's literally worthless besides for entertainment purposes and has a useful life of two hours.

On December 13 2017 11:42 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:41 Plansix wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:39 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:38 Plansix wrote:
Our model predicts the outcome of an election with closed ballets. This is a waste of Human Resources and time, since more accurately results can be obtained by waiting for the real count to come in.


Well obviously it's 50-50, either Moore wins or Jones does!

Someone already won! Predictions no longer matter!!!!


It's a level of confidence, not a probability. Pretty basic statistics, there's no need to be obtuse here.

This depends on your statistical assumptions and, empirically speaking, you're more likely than not wrong here seeing as most electoral forecasters aren't using frequentist methods. Or probably shouldn't be anyway.

I would have ignored this if it wasn't for the snarky "basic statistics" comment.


Most people are taught the difference between confidence and probability in stats 101 when being taught how to interpret confidence intervals.

edit: and empirically it's not a probability because as Plansix said, it already happened.

I don't understand what statistics has to do with what Plansix said. He was making a point about the utility of the model.

As for the bold, you've got a bit to learn in this area. Quit while you're ahead.


I don't have time to read all of that but typically the word probability is used in terms of predictions and confidence is used for accuracy of measurements of things that already happened, which is what we're dealing with here.

And even if you find a counter-example, I did say typically, and a "win" for you would just be semantics.

Your whole point was semantics lol. My point was "if you're going to be a technical smartass, at least be a technically correct one to avoid looking foolish."

Fyi, this isn't a mere "counterexample." It's an entirely independent statistical framework, and one that's more commonly used in electoral forecasting than the one you're familiar with.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 13 2017 03:41 GMT
#190067
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12475 Posts
December 13 2017 03:41 GMT
#190068
On December 13 2017 12:39 NewSunshine wrote:
Even if Jones wins, it's pretty frightening that it's still this close. Though I guess it's an uptick for Alabama even then.


Come on, nobody actually thought he'd win. Don't be greedy
No will to live, no wish to die
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8004 Posts
December 13 2017 03:41 GMT
#190069
Hell yea! Pedophiles with aspiring political careers: take the hint. You will only barely lose if you run for the Senate.
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 13 2017 03:41 GMT
#190070


This is a bold move Cotton.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
December 13 2017 03:42 GMT
#190071
I like that people think the president can be dragged into something as if he doesn't trample into (and all over) everything by his own choice.
Logo
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
December 13 2017 03:43 GMT
#190072
On December 13 2017 12:41 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/Bencjacobs/status/940787014307401734

This is a bold move Cotton.


It's just like how Trump represented the plurality wishes of the United States by caucusing with the Dems. Except this isn't even a plurality situation.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 03:44:44
December 13 2017 03:44 GMT
#190073
On December 13 2017 12:41 mozoku wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2017 12:33 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 12:29 mozoku wrote:
On December 13 2017 12:08 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 12:06 mozoku wrote:
I'm in agreement with Plansix on the value of this Upshot model. It's literally worthless besides for entertainment purposes and has a useful life of two hours.

On December 13 2017 11:42 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:41 Plansix wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:39 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:38 Plansix wrote:
Our model predicts the outcome of an election with closed ballets. This is a waste of Human Resources and time, since more accurately results can be obtained by waiting for the real count to come in.


Well obviously it's 50-50, either Moore wins or Jones does!

Someone already won! Predictions no longer matter!!!!


It's a level of confidence, not a probability. Pretty basic statistics, there's no need to be obtuse here.

This depends on your statistical assumptions and, empirically speaking, you're more likely than not wrong here seeing as most electoral forecasters aren't using frequentist methods. Or probably shouldn't be anyway.

I would have ignored this if it wasn't for the snarky "basic statistics" comment.


Most people are taught the difference between confidence and probability in stats 101 when being taught how to interpret confidence intervals.

edit: and empirically it's not a probability because as Plansix said, it already happened.

I don't understand what statistics has to do with what Plansix said. He was making a point about the utility of the model.

As for the bold, you've got a bit to learn in this area. Quit while you're ahead.


I don't have time to read all of that but typically the word probability is used in terms of predictions and confidence is used for accuracy of measurements of things that already happened, which is what we're dealing with here.

And even if you find a counter-example, I did say typically, and a "win" for you would just be semantics.

Your whole point was semantics lol. My point was "if you're going to be a technical smartass, at least be a correct one to avoid looking foolish."

Fyi, this isn't a mere "counterexample." It's an entirely independent statistical framework, and one that's more commonly used in electoral forecasting than the one you're familiar with.


Fine. It's not a frequentist "confidence". It's also not a probability, because the result already happened.
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
December 13 2017 03:44 GMT
#190074
On December 13 2017 12:41 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2017 12:39 NewSunshine wrote:
Even if Jones wins, it's pretty frightening that it's still this close. Though I guess it's an uptick for Alabama even then.


Come on, nobody actually thought he'd win. Don't be greedy

You're right. I mean, I shouldn't underestimate how many people thinks he serves the constitution because his spokeswoman said so, while conveniently ignoring how many of its amendments he wishes were gone.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 13 2017 03:46 GMT
#190075
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
December 13 2017 03:46 GMT
#190076
Man. Watching t_d go nuts is wonderful.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States5000 Posts
December 13 2017 03:46 GMT
#190077
so is Moore winning or Jones winning more peak 2017.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
December 13 2017 03:47 GMT
#190078
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3734458/

Here is an example of a Bayesian study. They don't give the "probability" of having schistosomiasis (except in the context of a diagnostic test) because people either have it or they don't.

They do however, give confidence intervals (And use the word confidence) of the total prevalence.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 03:50:05
December 13 2017 03:49 GMT
#190079
personally I think Jones should just go independent and caucus with the Dems. prob won't though
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 03:51:24
December 13 2017 03:50 GMT
#190080
On December 13 2017 12:46 Introvert wrote:
so is Moore winning or Jones winning more peak 2017.


Jones is more late 2017, Moore is more early 2017.

On December 13 2017 12:49 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
personally I think Jones should just go independent and caucus with the Dems. prob won't though


I don't really see the point. His 2020 chances are vanishingly small no matter what he does (unless Moore wins another primary lmao) and it's not like he disagrees with the Dems on anything.
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