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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9502

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24134 Posts
December 13 2017 03:12 GMT
#190021
On December 13 2017 12:10 Danglars wrote:
I think Jones has got it. Moore's up too little for the percent reporting in the Dem counties.


It's still Alabama, Jones has to beat the .5% margin to get past a recount.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 13 2017 03:13 GMT
#190022
On December 13 2017 12:08 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2017 12:06 mozoku wrote:
I'm in agreement with Plansix on the value of this Upshot model. It's literally worthless besides for entertainment purposes and has a useful life of two hours.

On December 13 2017 11:42 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:41 Plansix wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:39 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:38 Plansix wrote:
Our model predicts the outcome of an election with closed ballets. This is a waste of Human Resources and time, since more accurately results can be obtained by waiting for the real count to come in.


Well obviously it's 50-50, either Moore wins or Jones does!

Someone already won! Predictions no longer matter!!!!


It's a level of confidence, not a probability. Pretty basic statistics, there's no need to be obtuse here.

This depends on your statistical assumptions and, empirically speaking, you're more likely than not wrong here seeing as most electoral forecasters aren't using frequentist methods. Or probably shouldn't be anyway.

I would have ignored this if it wasn't for the snarky "basic statistics" comment.


Most people are taught the difference between confidence and probability in stats 101 when being taught how to interpret confidence intervals.

edit: and empirically it's not a probability because as Plansix said, it already happened.

But who fucking cares when we can literally have the results tomorrow? Or in an hour? This is treating politics like sports and entertainment, which it isn't.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 03:17:31
December 13 2017 03:14 GMT
#190023
On December 13 2017 12:12 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2017 12:10 Danglars wrote:
I think Jones has got it. Moore's up too little for the percent reporting in the Dem counties.


It's still Alabama, Jones has to beat the .5% margin to get past a recount.


They'll also have to actually count the provisional ballots then, though, and I can't help but think that would be an advantage for Jones.

The bigger risk is a blitz from Trump's fraud of a "voter fraud" commission. Especially since write-ins are basically certain to be a greater share of the vote than any margin for Jones' victory.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24782 Posts
December 13 2017 03:15 GMT
#190024
On December 13 2017 12:13 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2017 12:08 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 12:06 mozoku wrote:
I'm in agreement with Plansix on the value of this Upshot model. It's literally worthless besides for entertainment purposes and has a useful life of two hours.

On December 13 2017 11:42 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:41 Plansix wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:39 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:38 Plansix wrote:
Our model predicts the outcome of an election with closed ballets. This is a waste of Human Resources and time, since more accurately results can be obtained by waiting for the real count to come in.


Well obviously it's 50-50, either Moore wins or Jones does!

Someone already won! Predictions no longer matter!!!!


It's a level of confidence, not a probability. Pretty basic statistics, there's no need to be obtuse here.

This depends on your statistical assumptions and, empirically speaking, you're more likely than not wrong here seeing as most electoral forecasters aren't using frequentist methods. Or probably shouldn't be anyway.

I would have ignored this if it wasn't for the snarky "basic statistics" comment.


Most people are taught the difference between confidence and probability in stats 101 when being taught how to interpret confidence intervals.

edit: and empirically it's not a probability because as Plansix said, it already happened.

But who fucking cares when we can literally have the results tomorrow? Or in an hour? This is treating politics like sports and entertainment, which it isn't.

We are in the age of everyone wanting all available information immediately. Real-time models and analysis is to be expected. Why do you care if the NYT or others make this type of information available? If you would prefer to wait a couple of hours to see the final results then you can still do that. I'm not saying the model jumping back and forth every minute isn't a bit of a silly exercise, but why do you care?
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 13 2017 03:15 GMT
#190025
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24782 Posts
December 13 2017 03:15 GMT
#190026
{CC}StealthBlue just how in the fuck is that news.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
December 13 2017 03:17 GMT
#190027
On December 13 2017 12:15 micronesia wrote:
{CC}StealthBlue just how in the fuck is that news.

What? There are people who are still under the illusion that he posts news?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 13 2017 03:18 GMT
#190028
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12475 Posts
December 13 2017 03:19 GMT
#190029
Pretty sure we got it boys.
No will to live, no wish to die
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 13 2017 03:19 GMT
#190030
On December 13 2017 12:15 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2017 12:13 Plansix wrote:
On December 13 2017 12:08 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 12:06 mozoku wrote:
I'm in agreement with Plansix on the value of this Upshot model. It's literally worthless besides for entertainment purposes and has a useful life of two hours.

On December 13 2017 11:42 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:41 Plansix wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:39 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:38 Plansix wrote:
Our model predicts the outcome of an election with closed ballets. This is a waste of Human Resources and time, since more accurately results can be obtained by waiting for the real count to come in.


Well obviously it's 50-50, either Moore wins or Jones does!

Someone already won! Predictions no longer matter!!!!


It's a level of confidence, not a probability. Pretty basic statistics, there's no need to be obtuse here.

This depends on your statistical assumptions and, empirically speaking, you're more likely than not wrong here seeing as most electoral forecasters aren't using frequentist methods. Or probably shouldn't be anyway.

I would have ignored this if it wasn't for the snarky "basic statistics" comment.


Most people are taught the difference between confidence and probability in stats 101 when being taught how to interpret confidence intervals.

edit: and empirically it's not a probability because as Plansix said, it already happened.

But who fucking cares when we can literally have the results tomorrow? Or in an hour? This is treating politics like sports and entertainment, which it isn't.

We are in the age of everyone wanting all available information immediately. Real-time models and analysis is to be expected. Why do you care if the NYT or others make this type of information available? If you would prefer to wait a couple of hours to see the final results then you can still do that. I'm not saying the model jumping back and forth every minute isn't a bit of a silly exercise, but why do you care?

I mocked it on general principle that it is an source of worthless entertainment that the NYT feels the need to defend. I am of the opinion that News agencies and papers shouldn't use these. They should report facts, not the accuracy of algorithms using imperfect data. But apparently by insulting math I have angered some TL people. Because GH was right that the instant math is referenced on TL, posters are on it like nerds trying to get with that one girl at their party.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 13 2017 03:19 GMT
#190031
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
December 13 2017 03:20 GMT
#190032
On December 13 2017 12:17 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2017 12:15 micronesia wrote:
{CC}StealthBlue just how in the fuck is that news.

What? There are people who are still under the illusion that he posts news?

I have to agree with this. The Twitterstream is more often than not just petty gossip.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
December 13 2017 03:20 GMT
#190033
On December 13 2017 12:13 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2017 12:08 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 12:06 mozoku wrote:
I'm in agreement with Plansix on the value of this Upshot model. It's literally worthless besides for entertainment purposes and has a useful life of two hours.

On December 13 2017 11:42 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:41 Plansix wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:39 jalstar wrote:
On December 13 2017 11:38 Plansix wrote:
Our model predicts the outcome of an election with closed ballets. This is a waste of Human Resources and time, since more accurately results can be obtained by waiting for the real count to come in.


Well obviously it's 50-50, either Moore wins or Jones does!

Someone already won! Predictions no longer matter!!!!


It's a level of confidence, not a probability. Pretty basic statistics, there's no need to be obtuse here.

This depends on your statistical assumptions and, empirically speaking, you're more likely than not wrong here seeing as most electoral forecasters aren't using frequentist methods. Or probably shouldn't be anyway.

I would have ignored this if it wasn't for the snarky "basic statistics" comment.


Most people are taught the difference between confidence and probability in stats 101 when being taught how to interpret confidence intervals.

edit: and empirically it's not a probability because as Plansix said, it already happened.

But who fucking cares when we can literally have the results tomorrow? Or in an hour? This is treating politics like sports and entertainment, which it isn't.


It sure is entertaining though! Its kinda like sports too, 'cause you just root for your team even if they're likely to lose and regardless of much of anything they do or have done in the past.

I'm just enjoying riding my civic engagement high this year, beats the hell outta meth!
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 03:21:39
December 13 2017 03:20 GMT
#190034
It's still entirely possible that the parts of the blue counties yet to be counted are the more red-leaning ones.

That said...this is real, real bad for the GOP tax bill. I think Jones'll get to vote on the conference version if he wins, right?
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 03:23:32
December 13 2017 03:21 GMT
#190035
The NYT prediction is purely for fun. No reason to pretend it's anything different, it's just part of that live experience.

And that prediction is basically calling it for Jones right now.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12475 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 03:24:43
December 13 2017 03:21 GMT
#190036
On December 13 2017 12:20 TheTenthDoc wrote:
It's still entirely possible that the parts of the blue counties yet to be counted are the more red-leaning ones.


They think that's the case in Mobile (not anymore). But now that Tuscaloosa is other it seems quite hard for Moore to come back.
No will to live, no wish to die
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
December 13 2017 03:22 GMT
#190037
On December 13 2017 12:20 TheTenthDoc wrote:
That said...this is real, real bad for the GOP tax bill. I think Jones'll get to vote on the conference version if he wins, right?

Well since Pence is VP you're going to need two GOP traitors to vote against it for it to fail. Do we have such traitors lined up at the moment?
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 03:25:06
December 13 2017 03:24 GMT
#190038
Only if Collins finds her spine.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12475 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 03:26:37
December 13 2017 03:25 GMT
#190039
AP called for Jones

No will to live, no wish to die
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 03:26:21
December 13 2017 03:25 GMT
#190040
On December 13 2017 12:22 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2017 12:20 TheTenthDoc wrote:
That said...this is real, real bad for the GOP tax bill. I think Jones'll get to vote on the conference version if he wins, right?

Well since Pence is VP you're going to need two GOP traitors to vote against it for it to fail. Do we have such traitors lined up at the moment?


Corker is one. Depending on what emerges from conference I could easily see any of the folks who got bought out being another.
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