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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On November 15 2017 07:29 Trainrunnef wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2017 07:17 Slaughter wrote:On November 15 2017 07:01 Trainrunnef wrote:On November 15 2017 06:54 Plansix wrote:
Nursing and teaching are the two professions that are desperately needed, but wildly dysfunctional due to people not valuing the humans that perform the job. Part of that is lack of public education on what exactly a nurse does today. You say nurse and most people over 40 will picture what a CNA or LPN does not realizing that the field has shed certain non-technical responsibilities and gained new ones that require a higher level of understanding and education, From what I hear a lot of places like rookie LPNs over rookie RNs or BSNs because they come in with a lot more practical experience so they know what they are doing earlier then the latter because they have more education but less actual practical experience. The laws can be a bit weird with Nurse ranks, setting arbitrary educational barriers to perform certain tasks. I think you mean experienced lpn over rn, which is true, but it also depends as certain states have pretty severe restrictions on what LPNs are allowed to do. in some they cant even administer medicine
No I literally mean rookie v rookie. I hear a lot of bitching about how fresh out of school RNs don't know shit from the medical people I know. It varies from state to state and what schools the nurses are coming from of course.
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United States43970 Posts
On November 15 2017 07:05 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2017 06:56 Trainrunnef wrote:nurse practitioner is basically a doctor that took a different path. they can open up their own practice and diagnose like any other doctor. its essentially the doctorate of nursing, not at all what day to day nursing is like. on a separate note... Washington (CNN)Republican senators will include a repeal of Obamacare's individual mandate in the revised version of the chamber's tax overhaul to be released by the Senate finance committee Tuesday afternoon, according to two GOP aides. The committee's Republicans were unanimous in their support for adding the repeal.
GOP senators have been initially receptive to the proposal, including Arizona Sen. John McCain, who cast a dramatic deciding late night vote that killed Republicans' efforts to repeal and replace Obamacare earlier this year.
"Yes," he said when he was asked if he is leaning toward supporting the mandate repeal as he came out of the policy lunch.
Sen. Rand Paul announced earlier Tuesday he planned to offer an amendment to the Senate tax bill to repeal the individual mandate that requires individuals to have health insurance or face a fine. President Donald Trump has also endorsed repealing the individual mandate as part of the tax bill.
Sen. Susan Collins, a Republican from Maine, told reporters on Tuesday afternoon she has concerns about repealing the individual mandate in the tax bill.
"I personally think that it complicates tax reform," she said.
Collins was also one of three Republicans who voted against the GOP senate bill to repeal the individual and employer mandate in July. That shell of a bill was intended to get the Senate and House to conference on a health care bill and did not pass the Senate. I guess they couldn't help themselves.... didn't we just have 11 months of them trying to not do the skinny repeal, and now they are trying to force it in at the last second? There's a right way and a wrong way... so many politicians these days are trafficking exclusively in the wrong way. So they just torpedo's their tax bill? Because repealing the mandate is the same thing as repeal the entire thing. The entire healthcare sector will blow up instantly as everyone healthy cancels their insurance since they can't be denied when they get insurance after getting sick.
I would assume it's just posturing. They figure their tax bill won't pass unchanged so why not tack on an Obamacare repeal.
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I really love how the last year has been Republicans just flagrantly abusing the process and creating the most nightmarish bills possible. They spent 6 years grinding government to a halt while demonizing any who dared to work with the Democrats. Now they have power and can’t even contemplate how to govern. But they are 100% sure they are going to show us how the process was never supposed to work.
Who tries to use reconciliation twice in a row? The Democrats should run on removing reconciliation from the Senate because clearly congress can’t be trusted to be grownups. They should just admit it “This is our fault, we broke it and now we need to take it away for the good of the country.”
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On November 15 2017 06:14 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2017 06:06 IgnE wrote:
if you burn $100 bills are you destroying capital or the recording of capital (ignoring the material cost of the bills themselves)? should we say the record of capital holds the value of the capital itself? what is this thing that only has value in a recording? a debt obligation? well, a sovcit would make some weird argument about legal tender. for the second part of your comment, i think that would be negotiable instruments.
ok but what's a negotiable instrument?
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While posting on his Reddit account UncleSam4200, Voice of America reporter Josh Fatzick bragged on the infamous pro-Trump subreddit r/TheDonald that he worked in Washington media — but half-jokingly added, “If I were to ever be publicly connected to this account, it probably would not be good for my career.”
The reason why Fatzick didn’t want to be publicly outed as UncleSam4200 is because he frequently posts racist, sexist, and anti-LGBTQ screeds — in which he uses the N-word, jokes about sexual assault, refers to black people as “apes” and “gorillas,” and uses terms like “fag,” “faggot,” and “tranny” to insult those he disagrees with.
But — despite the highly inflammatory nature of his posts — Fatzick didn’t think he would ever be held accountable for the worst of his words, nor did he think his government employers would ever find out, as he has been hiding behind the mask of internet-anonymity for quite some time. “I doubt that will never happen,” posted UncleSam4200 in September 2017.
However, using information Fatzick himself posted on Reddit — including his age, girlfriend’s name, former employers, friends, location, educational background, and sports affiliations — this reporter was able to tie the vile posts of UncleSam4200 to the Voice of America reporter. Fatzick is a graduate of Coastal Carolina University, a former writer for far-right tabloid the Daily Caller, and a fan of the Pittsburgh Penguins — all of which he states on his Reddit account.
For definitive clarity, Mediaite reached out to multiple sources in conservative media who know Fatzick on both a personal and professional level and they were able to confirm that he is indeed the man behind UncleSam4200.
As odious as his comments are, the timestamps of his posts indicate something far more nefarious, as he frequently uses Reddit during work hours — which means taxpayers are de facto compensating Fatzick to post these racist remarks, given Voice of America’s government-funded status.
“That’s why I have a job where I can spend most of my day making mindless Reddit comments,” said Fatzick in one post — admitting this is how he spends his government-subsidized hours.
The news agency that employs Fatzick receives $218 million from the US government annually and acts as the number one source of American state media. Voice of America’s modus operandi is to be read, heard, and watched abroad — as the network reports in several dozen languages — so as to put a positive media spin on US government actions and interests throughout the world.
Fatzick — being an alt-right, hardline Trump supporter — spends the majority of his time on Reddit posting in r/TheDonald with like-minded “shitposters.” In this message board, he reserves some of his most offensive comments for members of the mainstream media — echoing his time at the Daily Caller.
“Fuck Chris Cilizza in his NYC elite faggot fucking asshole. Seriously, this guy is the epitome of the establishment cuck, ‘Obama was reeeeeal presidential.’ We need President Trump!” Said Fatzick regarding the CNN political commentator.
The white reporter from South Carolina attacked CNN contributor April Ryan — who is a black journalist for American Urban Radio Networks — calling her a “caged gorilla.”
“OF FUCKING COURSE Affirmative Action April has to start screeching like a god damn caged gorilla at the first mention of African Americans,” he said in a recent post.
Fatzick has gone after CNN anchor Brooke Baldwin in several posts, referring to her as “fucking retarded” and making sexist remarks about her appearance. “She’s just mad cuz shes got itty bitty titties,” he posted in response to the CNN segment where sports blogger Clay Travis randomly brought up women’s breasts.
In another post, Fatzick blasts National Public Radio’s government funding — which is ironic, given his own employer. “Why are taxpayer dollars funding this bullshit?” He said in response to an NPR segment on Trump’s authoritarian tendencies.
Aside from his media attacks, many of his posts are run-of-the-mill alt-right talking points on race and religion. Fatzick refers to Muslim immigrants as “rapefugees” and claimed they only come to Western countries to “rape white women,” while also posting “ISLAM IS A MENTAL DISORDER” in all caps. He called Michelle Obama “an ape” in one post, said he “hated Asian women” in another, and frequently uses the N-word.
Fatzick obsesses with what he deems to be the systemic bias against white people, parroting the alt-right 4Chan memes “It’s OK to be white” and “white genocide” in several posts.
His misogynistic posts include calling his girlfriend’s mother “a cunt,” posting “SHOW YOUR FUCKING TITS!” on a woman’s swimsuit selfie, and saying Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska belongs “in the kitchen.” Fatzick defended the head of Amazon studios after sexual assault allegations were made against him. “If we can’t drunkenly tell women they’ll love our dicks at parties, I don’t think I want to live in this country anymore,” he said — doubling-down on his jokes about “grabbing some pussy.”
Discovering the identity of UncleSam4200 was fairly simple, as Fatzick mentioned he works in media a number of times — leading this reporter to dig into his public posts to learn his alma mater, the names of his girlfriend and her mother, his affinity for the Pittsburgh Penguins, and his status as a government employee. Since he is the only ex-Daily Caller reporter to share these characteristics, the Reddit user’s real name is clear.
dditionally, in a Reddit ask me anything hosted by Daily Caller editor Christopher Bedford, Fatzick bragged about once working for the site. “Bedford used to be my boss… He let us start drinking from the office keg around noon, so I would highly recommend buying his book, if only to support the drinking habits of poor conservative journalists,” posted Fatzick on the AMA — referencing the Daily Caller‘s notorious in-office drinking habits.
Despite Fatzick leaving the Tucker Carlson-owned tabloid nearly two years ago, he regularly praises the Daily Caller‘s reporting and brags about having insider knowledge on conservative media from his time there. Though, his ultimate identifier was committing the cardinal sin of Reddit — promoting and praising his own Daily Caller articles.
Fatzick boasting about his tenure at the tabloid with his fellow alt-right “shitposters” isn’t surprising, as he is far from the only racist to be published by Carlson’s outlet. The tabloid also released the work of Unite The Right organizer Jason Kessler, VDARE founder Peter Brimelow, racist-blogger-turned-reporter Chuck Ross, and white nationalist speaker Richard Pollock. Daily Caller‘s deputy editor Scott Greer has public ties to a number of white nationalist entities as well, which are detailed in a Southern Poverty Law Center report.
Mediaite reached out to both Fatzick and Voice of America, but have received no response as of yet. This article will be updated if that changes.
As of this piece publishing, the alt-right reporter is still employed by Voice of America, but his racist screeds that are subsidized by the American taxpayer are now public information — which may lead many to ask the same question Fatzick did about NPR: “Why are taxpayer dollars funding this bullshit?”
www.mediaite.com
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On November 15 2017 06:37 Trainrunnef wrote:
As the husband of a nurse I would say the pay is only the start of it, and likely not the biggest piece of the puzzle. more important would be reduction to 8 hour shifts (although there is evidence that continuity of care is better from a patient standpoint), regular assigned shift days, instead of the typical monthly assigned system. and more rights against patient harassment/abuse (the crap they put up with because "its just the job" is ridiculous). The rest of the issues with nursing especially in big hospitals revolve around the personalities of the people that work there and the industry in general.
I work in the healthcare profession both civilian and military side (I'm an EMT in a hospital). Working closely with both nurses and MD's, I can confidently say that pay isn't the problem at all. Nurses make ~$70k on average, topping out around maybe $80-85k, which, all things considered, is a pretty fair wage.
The problem is entirely working conditions. I work in an ED civilian side, and there are numerous serious problems with the work environment. First off, nurses are in the unique position of being contractually obligated to continue working if they are "mandated" (i.e. the charge nurse can tell them "you are staying to work a double because we're short-staffed"). Second, overall staffing levels are continuously being cut. Someone was saying this largely has to do with patient continuity, but that's a load of crap. It's entirely due to budgeting. Hospitals don't want to pay nurses their salary + benefits if they can get away with not doing so (and there's ample evidence to point to the fact that the cost-related problems with our healthcare system are due to admin and pharmaceutical costs). Third, nurses face some incredible abuse from patients, and with an asinine system that sets "patient satisfaction" (a metric that has a not-insignificant inverse correlation with patient outcomes) as a benchmark for funding, there's little nurses can do except say, "Thank you sir, may I have another?". Fourth, there's constant resentment and strife between the nurses and management, which is your typical "suits from on high making decrees to nurses with no clue about how the floor works and continually cutting their budget and staffing while sucking in bigger and bigger salaries for themselves". Fifth, nursing benefits are routinely being cut by hospital admin whenever possible to save money; see the frequent nursing union strikes across the country. And sixth, working in a hospital setting can be genuinely dangerous, particularly in an ED or psych ward. Just like the average patients routinely abuse healthcare staff, patients can get extremely violent, and nurses can be seriously injured in the process. Combine that with the unhealthy lifestyle (many nurses have a problem eating right/exercising/staying healthy/not gaining weight) and the on-the-job injuries from constant burnout, lifting patients leading to back injuries, etc., and it's just not a very great place to be for many.
Funny enough, my hospital has one of the best situations for nurses because 1) our nurses are all guaranteed at least one 30 minute and one 15 minute break, 2) mandating almost never happens, and 3) shifts are either 8 or 12 hours long, and rarely stray from this paradigm. I work in the 2nd busiest ED in my state.
A couple other points:
1) No, nurses are not responsible for 99% of patient care. Nurses are routinely able to delegate responsibilities to Techs/CNA's/NST's, and most nurses have boiled down their profession to, "See X symptoms, draw blood/urine/etc. and do Y tests", along with bedside care and entirely too much charting. Anyone who has respect for the medical professions understands that MD's are responsible for making decisions and doing significant medical procedures, while nurses, techs, CNA's, etc. all help physicians accomplish these tasks in a timely, organized, and skilled manner within their respective scopes of practice; all of the nurses that I work with would be woefully lost without the tech staff in our ED to do most procedural tasks, and the ED wouldn't function without the nurses there to do triage, anything that involves IV access, pushing meds, etc. Everyone on the team is responsible for the patient's care. Nurses are not the 2nd coming of Christ to the health professions.
2) NP's are not "basically doctors". First off, NP isn't always a doctorate-level education. Second, NP's are virtually identical to PA's in scope of practice, and both of these fall short of an MD. Despite what they may tell you, both NP's and PA's fall behind MD's in terms of true knowledge and understanding of medical conditions and processes. This isn't to say that NP's and PA's are useless; they are fantastic at providing primary care and, just like nurses, can learn an incredible amount and function very independently with experience and skill. However, take three equal individuals, one NP, one PA, and one MD, and at the same time in their career, the MD will consistently have more knowledge and skill. This also doesn't address that MD's are by far the best option at secondary and tertiary levels of care.
3) Almost all work-related issues that nurses face are also faced by physicians, including a serious shortage of physicians in high-demand specialties and areas of the country and massive physician turnover rates, not to mention hours that are significantly worse for large portions of a physician's career. However, the public doesn't care because 1) they just like to say, "MD's get paid enough, so they can suck it up" and 2) at a certain point in their career, MD's gain more options than nurses in terms of how they practice (however, this is changing with healthcare system changes, and continues to drive MD's out of the profession).
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On November 15 2017 06:56 Trainrunnef wrote:nurse practitioner is basically a doctor that took a different path. they can open up their own practice and diagnose like any other doctor. its essentially the doctorate of nursing, not at all what day to day nursing is like. on a separate note... Show nested quote +Washington (CNN)Republican senators will include a repeal of Obamacare's individual mandate in the revised version of the chamber's tax overhaul to be released by the Senate finance committee Tuesday afternoon, according to two GOP aides. The committee's Republicans were unanimous in their support for adding the repeal.
GOP senators have been initially receptive to the proposal, including Arizona Sen. John McCain, who cast a dramatic deciding late night vote that killed Republicans' efforts to repeal and replace Obamacare earlier this year.
"Yes," he said when he was asked if he is leaning toward supporting the mandate repeal as he came out of the policy lunch.
Sen. Rand Paul announced earlier Tuesday he planned to offer an amendment to the Senate tax bill to repeal the individual mandate that requires individuals to have health insurance or face a fine. President Donald Trump has also endorsed repealing the individual mandate as part of the tax bill.
Sen. Susan Collins, a Republican from Maine, told reporters on Tuesday afternoon she has concerns about repealing the individual mandate in the tax bill.
"I personally think that it complicates tax reform," she said.
Collins was also one of three Republicans who voted against the GOP senate bill to repeal the individual and employer mandate in July. That shell of a bill was intended to get the Senate and House to conference on a health care bill and did not pass the Senate. I guess they couldn't help themselves.... didn't we just have 11 months of them trying to not do the skinny repeal, and now they are trying to force it in at the last second? There's a right way and a wrong way... so many politicians these days are trafficking exclusively in the wrong way.
I can only hope they are successful. All signs are to the contrary.
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On November 15 2017 09:08 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2017 06:37 Trainrunnef wrote:
As the husband of a nurse I would say the pay is only the start of it, and likely not the biggest piece of the puzzle. more important would be reduction to 8 hour shifts (although there is evidence that continuity of care is better from a patient standpoint), regular assigned shift days, instead of the typical monthly assigned system. and more rights against patient harassment/abuse (the crap they put up with because "its just the job" is ridiculous). The rest of the issues with nursing especially in big hospitals revolve around the personalities of the people that work there and the industry in general. I work in the healthcare profession both civilian and military side (I'm an EMT in a hospital). Working closely with both nurses and MD's, I can confidently say that pay isn't the problem at all. Nurses make ~$70k on average, topping out around maybe $80-85k, which, all things considered, is a pretty fair wage. The problem is entirely working conditions. I work in an ED civilian side, and there are numerous serious problems with the work environment. First off, nurses are in the unique position of being contractually obligated to continue working if they are "mandated" (i.e. the charge nurse can tell them "you are staying to work a double because we're short-staffed"). Second, overall staffing levels are continuously being cut. Someone was saying this largely has to do with patient continuity, but that's a load of crap. It's entirely due to budgeting. Hospitals don't want to pay nurses their salary + benefits if they can get away with not doing so (and there's ample evidence to point to the fact that the cost-related problems with our healthcare system are due to admin and pharmaceutical costs). Third, nurses face some incredible abuse from patients, and with an asinine system that sets "patient satisfaction" (a metric that has a not-insignificant inverse correlation with patient outcomes) as a benchmark for funding, there's little nurses can do except say, "Thank you sir, may I have another?". Fourth, there's constant resentment and strife between the nurses and management, which is your typical "suits from on high making decrees to nurses with no clue about how the floor works and continually cutting their budget and staffing while sucking in bigger and bigger salaries for themselves". Fifth, nursing benefits are routinely being cut by hospital admin whenever possible to save money; see the frequent nursing union strikes across the country. And sixth, working in a hospital setting can be genuinely dangerous, particularly in an ED or psych ward. Just like the average patients routinely abuse healthcare staff, patients can get extremely violent, and nurses can be seriously injured in the process. Combine that with the unhealthy lifestyle (many nurses have a problem eating right/exercising/staying healthy/not gaining weight) and the on-the-job injuries from constant burnout, lifting patients leading to back injuries, etc., and it's just not a very great place to be for many. Funny enough, my hospital has one of the best situations for nurses because 1) our nurses are all guaranteed at least one 30 minute and one 15 minute break, 2) mandating almost never happens, and 3) shifts are either 8 or 12 hours long, and rarely stray from this paradigm. I work in the 2nd busiest ED in my state. A couple other points: 1) No, nurses are not responsible for 99% of patient care. Nurses are routinely able to delegate responsibilities to Techs/CNA's/NST's, and most nurses have boiled down their profession to, "See X symptoms, draw blood/urine/etc. and do Y tests", along with bedside care and entirely too much charting. Anyone who has respect for the medical professions understands that MD's are responsible for making decisions and doing significant medical procedures, while nurses, techs, CNA's, etc. all help physicians accomplish these tasks in a timely, organized, and skilled manner within their respective scopes of practice; all of the nurses that I work with would be woefully lost without the tech staff in our ED to do most procedural tasks, and the ED wouldn't function without the nurses there to do triage, anything that involves IV access, pushing meds, etc. Everyone on the team is responsible for the patient's care. Nurses are not the 2nd coming of Christ to the health professions. 2) NP's are not "basically doctors". First off, NP isn't always a doctorate-level education. Second, NP's are virtually identical to PA's in scope of practice, and both of these fall short of an MD. Despite what they may tell you, both NP's and PA's fall behind MD's in terms of true knowledge and understanding of medical conditions and processes. This isn't to say that NP's and PA's are useless; they are fantastic at providing primary care and, just like nurses, can learn an incredible amount and function very independently with experience and skill. However, take three equal individuals, one NP, one PA, and one MD, and at the same time in their career, the MD will consistently have more knowledge and skill. This also doesn't address that MD's are by far the best option at secondary and tertiary levels of care. 3) Almost all work-related issues that nurses face are also faced by physicians, including a serious shortage of physicians in high-demand specialties and areas of the country and massive physician turnover rates, not to mention hours that are significantly worse for large portions of a physician's career. However, the public doesn't care because 1) they just like to say, "MD's get paid enough, so they can suck it up" and 2) at a certain point in their career, MD's gain more options than nurses in terms of how they practice (however, this is changing with healthcare system changes, and continues to drive MD's out of the profession).
The only comment I'd add is that the shortage is also at the tail-end of the spectrum for GP's and family medicine. Given how much an investment, both financially and time-wise, getting a MD is, the majority of talented to-be physicians/ those who score highly on STEP pick a high-paying specialty.
Ah shit, second comment. Also the shortage is partially driven by a very uneven geographic distribution. In urban areas you'll have a T1 trauma center, academic/research/teaching hospitals, all that and thousands of medical professional. But once you go rural, there will be one hospital barely limping along with a mix of truly charitable people who choose to help an underserved community, and then kind of the lower-tier folks.
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Keeping pre-existing conditions but eliminating the mandate is about as smart as flushing your money down the toilet.
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On November 15 2017 10:08 Doodsmack wrote:
Keeping pre-existing conditions but eliminating the mandate is about as smart as flushing your money down the toilet.
It's good in the long run from a "burn it all down" perspective. I work at a bazillion dollar company, so I'm not worried because I am assuming they will insulate me from the trainwreck that ensues. But this is some seriously bullshit stuff to pull on poorer folks like my mom who are basically barely scraping by every single month.
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The Trump administration is hiring a small army of attorneys to fight landowners so the government can seize the property needed to build the wall on the U.S.-Mexico border that President Donald Trump promised his supporters.
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Lawyers from the Department of Homeland Security are also expected to chip in with “significant litigation support in defense of various challenges to the construction of the physical wall as well as in the condemnation of land along the southwest border,” the government documents said.
About two-thirds of the land along the border is owned by private landowners or U.S. states. Usually the government evaluates the land and then offers a market rate price. If the property owners refuse, the attorney general can seize the land by calling “eminent domain”—a process also known as “condemnation”—turning the land from private to public use. Landowners can fight for more compensation through U.S. District Courts.
www.yahoo.com
Strong conservative values being demonstrated here.
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On November 15 2017 10:33 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2017 10:08 Doodsmack wrote:
Keeping pre-existing conditions but eliminating the mandate is about as smart as flushing your money down the toilet. It's good in the long run from a "burn it all down" perspective. I work at a bazillion dollar company, so I'm not worried because I am assuming they will insulate me from the trainwreck that ensues. But this is some seriously bullshit stuff to pull on poorer folks like my mom who are basically barely scraping by every single month.
This is worse then 'burning it all down' tho.
Without the mandate but with pre-existing coverage in place no one will buy insurance until they actually get sick.
Your premium isn't just going to go up. It'll be your average hospital bill.
Burning the whole thing down at least you can fall back to the old system, even if its worse then what exists now.
By just repealing the mandate you kill the entire concept of health insurance dead.
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On November 15 2017 10:41 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2017 10:33 Mohdoo wrote:On November 15 2017 10:08 Doodsmack wrote:
Keeping pre-existing conditions but eliminating the mandate is about as smart as flushing your money down the toilet. It's good in the long run from a "burn it all down" perspective. I work at a bazillion dollar company, so I'm not worried because I am assuming they will insulate me from the trainwreck that ensues. But this is some seriously bullshit stuff to pull on poorer folks like my mom who are basically barely scraping by every single month. This is worse then 'burning it all down' tho. Without the mandate but with pre-existing coverage in place no one will buy insurance until they actually get sick. Your premium isn't just going to go up. It'll be your average hospital bill. Burning the whole thing down at least you can fall back to the old system, even if its worse then what exists now. By just repealing the mandate you kill the entire concept of health insurance dead.
I guess what I am saying is that this will effectively burn down the entire industry because core mechanisms that allow insurance to be a viable business are completely eliminated.
I also am a dual-citizen, so I can just go chat up Trudeau if need be.
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On November 15 2017 10:41 Gorsameth wrote:
Burning the whole thing down at least you can fall back to the old system, even if its worse then what exists now.
By just repealing the mandate you kill the entire concept of health insurance dead.
For about a century, health insurance survived with no mandate. It's the regulatory malpractice around pre-existing conditions that killed the concept of health insurance as insurance, and the mandate just means the general public is stuck paying money to someone.
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On November 15 2017 10:51 Buckyman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2017 10:41 Gorsameth wrote:
Burning the whole thing down at least you can fall back to the old system, even if its worse then what exists now.
By just repealing the mandate you kill the entire concept of health insurance dead.
For about a century, health insurance survived with no mandate. It's the regulatory malpractice around pre-existing conditions that killed the concept of health insurance as insurance, and the mandate just means the general public is stuck paying money to someone.
Do you know what EMTALA is? If not, you should if you're going to talk about mandated care.
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On November 15 2017 10:51 Buckyman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2017 10:41 Gorsameth wrote:
Burning the whole thing down at least you can fall back to the old system, even if its worse then what exists now.
By just repealing the mandate you kill the entire concept of health insurance dead.
For about a century, health insurance survived with no mandate. It's the regulatory malpractice around pre-existing conditions that killed the concept of health insurance as insurance, and the mandate just means the general public is stuck paying money to someone.
yeah, that was the pre no lifetime limit, not pre existing condition world. and it kinda sucked if you weren't relatively healthy or rich.
On November 15 2017 10:48 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2017 10:41 Gorsameth wrote:On November 15 2017 10:33 Mohdoo wrote:On November 15 2017 10:08 Doodsmack wrote:
Keeping pre-existing conditions but eliminating the mandate is about as smart as flushing your money down the toilet. It's good in the long run from a "burn it all down" perspective. I work at a bazillion dollar company, so I'm not worried because I am assuming they will insulate me from the trainwreck that ensues. But this is some seriously bullshit stuff to pull on poorer folks like my mom who are basically barely scraping by every single month. This is worse then 'burning it all down' tho. Without the mandate but with pre-existing coverage in place no one will buy insurance until they actually get sick. Your premium isn't just going to go up. It'll be your average hospital bill. Burning the whole thing down at least you can fall back to the old system, even if its worse then what exists now. By just repealing the mandate you kill the entire concept of health insurance dead. I guess what I am saying is that this will effectively burn down the entire industry because core mechanisms that allow insurance to be a viable business are completely eliminated. I also am a dual-citizen, so I can just go chat up Trudeau if need be.
i think what would happen under the hypothetical 'two legged stool' scenario is that the insurers would agree to insure people with pre existing conditions, but then use a combo of denying claims, creating a shitload of paperwork to get approval for treatments and going to court with the government to keep their costs under control. it would be a shit system, though.
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On November 15 2017 10:53 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2017 10:51 Buckyman wrote:On November 15 2017 10:41 Gorsameth wrote:
Burning the whole thing down at least you can fall back to the old system, even if its worse then what exists now.
By just repealing the mandate you kill the entire concept of health insurance dead.
For about a century, health insurance survived with no mandate. It's the regulatory malpractice around pre-existing conditions that killed the concept of health insurance as insurance, and the mandate just means the general public is stuck paying money to someone. Do you know what EMTALA is? If not, you should if you're going to talk about mandated care.
That would be the difference between health insurance and health care.
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Just bring back fraud investigations when you get diagnosed with cancer. Then we can get ride of the mandate.
And life time limits. Those were great. And being unable to get healthcare if you had diabetes. Bring back all the things that allowed healthcare to be this system for the wealthy for 100 years. And let the poor die without care because, well, the market doesn't serve the poor.
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On November 15 2017 11:11 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2017 10:53 farvacola wrote:On November 15 2017 10:51 Buckyman wrote:On November 15 2017 10:41 Gorsameth wrote:
Burning the whole thing down at least you can fall back to the old system, even if its worse then what exists now.
By just repealing the mandate you kill the entire concept of health insurance dead.
For about a century, health insurance survived with no mandate. It's the regulatory malpractice around pre-existing conditions that killed the concept of health insurance as insurance, and the mandate just means the general public is stuck paying money to someone. Do you know what EMTALA is? If not, you should if you're going to talk about mandated care. That would be the difference between health insurance and health care.
What you mean to say is that you genuinely don't understand how statutes like EMTALA dissolve (or at least dramatically complicate) the distinction between care and insurance on the basis that treatment comes first when medical events like preventable death are at hand. The lack of the very thing you're pointing at is key to understanding why healthcare makes for a terrible market good.
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EPT
