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On October 10 2017 07:18 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 07:10 Falling wrote:
Well, much less the person, but it is a significant event in history- the meeting of two worlds. I joked before about Viking Day, but while they arrived earlier, it's not as significant as it never turned into much. The Viking colony quickly faded and there was no follow up. Columbus is a landmark as an event because there was a permanent change from very little interaction between the continents to an interconnectedness that has yet to cease.
We could rename it a few things so it commemorates the event rather than a deeply flawed person, but I don't think Indigenous Day captures the significance of the change. We could have an Indigenous Day as well, but it's a different idea. I think to celebrate a collection of ethnicities vs events that landmark a change... is somewhat similar in the same way there was rumblings over Canada's 150th celebration. True, there were people in these lands for thousands of years prior to 1867. Nonetheless, July 1, 1867 acknowledges that something occurred that had not occurred before- a polity appeared that didn't exist before. We can celebrate static history- the people, the ethnic groups. But I also think it's worth acknowledging dynamic history- unique events that shaped and changed what came after. You could rename it something like Discovery Day but the opposition would start going on about invasion day or something. It seems like an odd battleground for these ideas, but apparently celebrating anything about Western culture in 2017 is celebrating white supremacy.
Much of "western culture" was built on white supremacy, so that's bound to happen.
Remember, "white" is something made up to oppress and marginalize non-white people, that's why "white people" were created.
"The discovery day" idea turns a man stumbling into a land mass, misnaming the population, proceeding to help exterminate the native inhabitants, then the ongoing oppression and imperialism that resulted into something to be celebrated, that's dumb.
I don't have a problem with remembering it, but it should be a solemn occasion taken to reflect on the atrocities and the lingering consequences. Not blindly celebrated or whatever incredibly dumb and ridiculous "Columbus day is about discovery and Italian Americans" bs Danglars is pushing.
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On October 10 2017 07:34 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 07:32 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 10 2017 07:09 ticklishmusic wrote:
columbus was a heinous and incompetent shitbag while he was governor of the west indies, even by the standards of his time. sure he managed to sail over to america (which he didn't know he was america, even), but that's a pretty tiny piece of his biography.
i'm fine with celebrating, commemorating, acknowledging, memorializing the event which was an important milestone milestone in human history, but there's a lot of baggage there we as a society don't like to talk about. If the society dosent like talking about it, don't force it down their throats. It creates fissure within the fabric of our community. This seems like a great place to call people snowflakes. History is rough, putting your head in the sand and going "EVERYTHING IS FINE" is not a great way to live
No everything is obviously not fine. But you can't erase the past, you have to do what's the best of the country advancing forward.
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On October 10 2017 07:37 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 07:34 IyMoon wrote:On October 10 2017 07:32 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 10 2017 07:09 ticklishmusic wrote:
columbus was a heinous and incompetent shitbag while he was governor of the west indies, even by the standards of his time. sure he managed to sail over to america (which he didn't know he was america, even), but that's a pretty tiny piece of his biography.
i'm fine with celebrating, commemorating, acknowledging, memorializing the event which was an important milestone milestone in human history, but there's a lot of baggage there we as a society don't like to talk about. If the society dosent like talking about it, don't force it down their throats. It creates fissure within the fabric of our community. This seems like a great place to call people snowflakes. History is rough, putting your head in the sand and going "EVERYTHING IS FINE" is not a great way to live No everything is obviously not fine. But you can't erase the past, you have to do what's the best of the country advancing forward.
May I ask where you are from?
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On October 10 2017 07:37 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 07:34 IyMoon wrote:On October 10 2017 07:32 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 10 2017 07:09 ticklishmusic wrote:
columbus was a heinous and incompetent shitbag while he was governor of the west indies, even by the standards of his time. sure he managed to sail over to america (which he didn't know he was america, even), but that's a pretty tiny piece of his biography.
i'm fine with celebrating, commemorating, acknowledging, memorializing the event which was an important milestone milestone in human history, but there's a lot of baggage there we as a society don't like to talk about. If the society dosent like talking about it, don't force it down their throats. It creates fissure within the fabric of our community. This seems like a great place to call people snowflakes. History is rough, putting your head in the sand and going "EVERYTHING IS FINE" is not a great way to live No everything is obviously not fine. But you can't erase the past, you have to do what's the best of the country advancing forward.
It seems to me you are 100% advocating erasing the past so the country can advance forward
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On October 10 2017 07:18 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 07:10 Falling wrote:
Well, much less the person, but it is a significant event in history- the meeting of two worlds. I joked before about Viking Day, but while they arrived earlier, it's not as significant as it never turned into much. The Viking colony quickly faded and there was no follow up. Columbus is a landmark as an event because there was a permanent change from very little interaction between the continents to an interconnectedness that has yet to cease.
We could rename it a few things so it commemorates the event rather than a deeply flawed person, but I don't think Indigenous Day captures the significance of the change. We could have an Indigenous Day as well, but it's a different idea. I think to celebrate a collection of ethnicities vs events that landmark a change... is somewhat similar in the same way there was rumblings over Canada's 150th celebration. True, there were people in these lands for thousands of years prior to 1867. Nonetheless, July 1, 1867 acknowledges that something occurred that had not occurred before- a polity appeared that didn't exist before. We can celebrate static history- the people, the ethnic groups. But I also think it's worth acknowledging dynamic history- unique events that shaped and changed what came after. You could rename it something like Discovery Day but the opposition would start going on about invasion day or something. It seems like an odd battleground for these ideas, but apparently celebrating anything about Western culture in 2017 is celebrating white supremacy.
that there always exists some opposition group doesn't mean the changes shouldn't be made. A more reasonable option still has more support. It's seems like you're making an unjustified counterattack based on a small portion of the left; rather than the large amoutn of reasonable lefties.
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Canada11607 Posts
Remember, "white" is something made up to oppress and marginalize non-white people, that's why "white people" were created.
By whom and when? Are you thinking of social darwinism?
"The discovery day" idea turns a man stumbling into a land mass, misnaming the population, proceeding to help exterminate the native inhabitants, then the ongoing oppression and imperialism that resulted into something to be celebrated, that's dumb.
A lot of discoveries are by accident- or rather they were trying to figure out one thing, but ended up finding something else. That doesn't diminish the discovery. Put it this way. If the reverse happened, would it not still be a significant moment in history? If in the 1400's, the Iroquois appeared off the coast of France in tall ships and that led to a permanent relationship between the continents, wouldn't that be worth noting? Even if the Iroquois were trying to get to Australia and found Europe instead? I think so.
It could be both solemn and celebratory. Like a great many things in history, the consequences are both good and bad.
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On October 10 2017 07:32 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 07:09 ticklishmusic wrote:
columbus was a heinous and incompetent shitbag while he was governor of the west indies, even by the standards of his time. sure he managed to sail over to america (which he didn't know he was america, even), but that's a pretty tiny piece of his biography.
i'm fine with celebrating, commemorating, acknowledging, memorializing the event which was an important milestone milestone in human history, but there's a lot of baggage there we as a society don't like to talk about. If the society dosent like talking about it, don't force it down their throats. It creates fissure within the fabric of our community.
Maybe if US education did its job properly in terms of history we wouldn't have to make such adjustments. Columbus shouldn't have been given a holiday in the first place.
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On October 10 2017 07:37 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 07:34 IyMoon wrote:On October 10 2017 07:32 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 10 2017 07:09 ticklishmusic wrote:
columbus was a heinous and incompetent shitbag while he was governor of the west indies, even by the standards of his time. sure he managed to sail over to america (which he didn't know he was america, even), but that's a pretty tiny piece of his biography.
i'm fine with celebrating, commemorating, acknowledging, memorializing the event which was an important milestone milestone in human history, but there's a lot of baggage there we as a society don't like to talk about. If the society dosent like talking about it, don't force it down their throats. It creates fissure within the fabric of our community. This seems like a great place to call people snowflakes. History is rough, putting your head in the sand and going "EVERYTHING IS FINE" is not a great way to live No everything is obviously not fine. But you can't erase the past, you have to do what's the best of the country advancing forward.
you're contradicting yourself potentially; what if the best thing for a country is erasing the past?
at any rate, it'd help if you clarified whehter you're pro or anti columbus day, as with what you've posted so far either way could be justified.
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On October 10 2017 07:40 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 07:37 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 10 2017 07:34 IyMoon wrote:On October 10 2017 07:32 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 10 2017 07:09 ticklishmusic wrote:
columbus was a heinous and incompetent shitbag while he was governor of the west indies, even by the standards of his time. sure he managed to sail over to america (which he didn't know he was america, even), but that's a pretty tiny piece of his biography.
i'm fine with celebrating, commemorating, acknowledging, memorializing the event which was an important milestone milestone in human history, but there's a lot of baggage there we as a society don't like to talk about. If the society dosent like talking about it, don't force it down their throats. It creates fissure within the fabric of our community. This seems like a great place to call people snowflakes. History is rough, putting your head in the sand and going "EVERYTHING IS FINE" is not a great way to live No everything is obviously not fine. But you can't erase the past, you have to do what's the best of the country advancing forward. It seems to me you are 100% advocating erasing the past so the country can advance forward
I mean we are really diverse and accepting while able to manage the greatest army ever to exist and having number 1 economy and tech.
It's pretty awesome.
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On October 10 2017 07:35 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 07:18 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 10 2017 07:10 Falling wrote:
Well, much less the person, but it is a significant event in history- the meeting of two worlds. I joked before about Viking Day, but while they arrived earlier, it's not as significant as it never turned into much. The Viking colony quickly faded and there was no follow up. Columbus is a landmark as an event because there was a permanent change from very little interaction between the continents to an interconnectedness that has yet to cease.
We could rename it a few things so it commemorates the event rather than a deeply flawed person, but I don't think Indigenous Day captures the significance of the change. We could have an Indigenous Day as well, but it's a different idea. I think to celebrate a collection of ethnicities vs events that landmark a change... is somewhat similar in the same way there was rumblings over Canada's 150th celebration. True, there were people in these lands for thousands of years prior to 1867. Nonetheless, July 1, 1867 acknowledges that something occurred that had not occurred before- a polity appeared that didn't exist before. We can celebrate static history- the people, the ethnic groups. But I also think it's worth acknowledging dynamic history- unique events that shaped and changed what came after. You could rename it something like Discovery Day but the opposition would start going on about invasion day or something. It seems like an odd battleground for these ideas, but apparently celebrating anything about Western culture in 2017 is celebrating white supremacy. Much of "western culture" was built on white supremacy, so that's bound to happen. Remember, "white" is something made up to oppress and marginalize non-white people, that's why "white people" were created. "The discovery day" idea turns a man stumbling into a land mass, misnaming the population, proceeding to help exterminate the native inhabitants, then the ongoing oppression and imperialism that resulted into something to be celebrated, that's dumb. I don't have a problem with remembering it, but it should be a solemn occasion taken to reflect on the atrocities and the lingering consequences. Not blindly celebrated or whatever incredibly dumb and ridiculous "Columbus day is about discovery and Italian Americans" bs Danglars is pushing.
Nothing you are saying is wrong but its very one sided.
I mean the discovery of America can be separated from the invasion, extermination, oppression and imperialism that followed, and can also be tied to some good things, like the liberalism that many Americans have helped to spread, the human rights that have been advanced by America, the great ideas and innovations that have come from America if you wanted to look at it from the opposite point of view.
The country was born, and for those living in it today is that not a reason for celebration?
Of course we shouldn't forget the suffering that was (still is?) inflicted on indigenous people, but its stupid to tell people not to celebrate their own country.
Of course, its a good excuse to start labeling average Joe, who is just going about his daily business enjoying whatever reason he has to take a break from normal life and celebrate something.
Fuck that guy, he's just covertly oppressing all the minorities amirite??
Meh.
For most people its just a reason to have a party.
The problem isn't the celebration, the problem I have is naming it after Columbus, who was clearly a total douchebag.
The problem is the whitewashed education system.
The celebration is fine, let people celebrate their country if they want to.
On October 10 2017 07:40 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 07:18 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 10 2017 07:10 Falling wrote:
Well, much less the person, but it is a significant event in history- the meeting of two worlds. I joked before about Viking Day, but while they arrived earlier, it's not as significant as it never turned into much. The Viking colony quickly faded and there was no follow up. Columbus is a landmark as an event because there was a permanent change from very little interaction between the continents to an interconnectedness that has yet to cease.
We could rename it a few things so it commemorates the event rather than a deeply flawed person, but I don't think Indigenous Day captures the significance of the change. We could have an Indigenous Day as well, but it's a different idea. I think to celebrate a collection of ethnicities vs events that landmark a change... is somewhat similar in the same way there was rumblings over Canada's 150th celebration. True, there were people in these lands for thousands of years prior to 1867. Nonetheless, July 1, 1867 acknowledges that something occurred that had not occurred before- a polity appeared that didn't exist before. We can celebrate static history- the people, the ethnic groups. But I also think it's worth acknowledging dynamic history- unique events that shaped and changed what came after. You could rename it something like Discovery Day but the opposition would start going on about invasion day or something. It seems like an odd battleground for these ideas, but apparently celebrating anything about Western culture in 2017 is celebrating white supremacy. that there always exists some opposition group doesn't mean the changes shouldn't be made. A more reasonable option still has more support. It's seems like you're making an unjustified counterattack based on a small portion of the left; rather than the large amoutn of reasonable lefties.
Yeah I'm responding to the small portion of the left, because they are quite the majority over here on TL 
Its where the important discussion is happening right now in my opinion. I disagree with almost everything coming from the right, whereas the left needs to discuss things, unify and find a way to start getting some power back. I mostly post in this thread from that point of view. I think the hard left is getting more popular and more vocal, but also more counter productive.
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On October 10 2017 07:44 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 07:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 10 2017 07:18 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 10 2017 07:10 Falling wrote:
Well, much less the person, but it is a significant event in history- the meeting of two worlds. I joked before about Viking Day, but while they arrived earlier, it's not as significant as it never turned into much. The Viking colony quickly faded and there was no follow up. Columbus is a landmark as an event because there was a permanent change from very little interaction between the continents to an interconnectedness that has yet to cease.
We could rename it a few things so it commemorates the event rather than a deeply flawed person, but I don't think Indigenous Day captures the significance of the change. We could have an Indigenous Day as well, but it's a different idea. I think to celebrate a collection of ethnicities vs events that landmark a change... is somewhat similar in the same way there was rumblings over Canada's 150th celebration. True, there were people in these lands for thousands of years prior to 1867. Nonetheless, July 1, 1867 acknowledges that something occurred that had not occurred before- a polity appeared that didn't exist before. We can celebrate static history- the people, the ethnic groups. But I also think it's worth acknowledging dynamic history- unique events that shaped and changed what came after. You could rename it something like Discovery Day but the opposition would start going on about invasion day or something. It seems like an odd battleground for these ideas, but apparently celebrating anything about Western culture in 2017 is celebrating white supremacy. Much of "western culture" was built on white supremacy, so that's bound to happen. Remember, "white" is something made up to oppress and marginalize non-white people, that's why "white people" were created. "The discovery day" idea turns a man stumbling into a land mass, misnaming the population, proceeding to help exterminate the native inhabitants, then the ongoing oppression and imperialism that resulted into something to be celebrated, that's dumb. I don't have a problem with remembering it, but it should be a solemn occasion taken to reflect on the atrocities and the lingering consequences. Not blindly celebrated or whatever incredibly dumb and ridiculous "Columbus day is about discovery and Italian Americans" bs Danglars is pushing. Nothing you are saying is wrong but its very one sided. I mean the discovery of America can be separated from the invasion, extermination, oppression and imperialism that followed, and can also be tied to some good things, like the liberalism that many Americans have helped to spread, the human rights that have been advanced by America, the great ideas and innovations that have come from America if you wanted to look at it from the opposite point of view. The country was born, and for those living in it today is that not a reason for celebration? Of course we shouldn't forget the suffering that was (still is?) inflicted on indigenous people, but its stupid to tell people not to celebrate their own country. Of course, its a good excuse to start labeling average Joe, who is just going about his daily business enjoying whatever reason he has to take a break from normal life and celebrate something. Fuck that guy, he's just covertly oppressing all the minorities amirite?? Meh. For most people its just a reason to have a party. The problem isn't the celebration, the problem I have is naming it after Columbus, who was clearly a total douchebag. The problem is the whitewashed education system. The celebration is fine, let people celebrate their country if they want to.
We have plenty of days celebrating America that make sense. Not some guy discovering a land that isn't even the US and doing shitty things. He wasn't even very well thought of until the US elevated him in their mythos.
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Canada11607 Posts
what if the best thing for a country is erasing the past?
I don't think that's ever true. Even if the past is monstrous, it should always be remembered, and certainly not erased. The offenses of the past may cause one to bulldoze ancient temples, but I won't side with erasing the offenses of the past.
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On October 10 2017 07:44 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 07:40 IyMoon wrote:On October 10 2017 07:37 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 10 2017 07:34 IyMoon wrote:On October 10 2017 07:32 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 10 2017 07:09 ticklishmusic wrote:
columbus was a heinous and incompetent shitbag while he was governor of the west indies, even by the standards of his time. sure he managed to sail over to america (which he didn't know he was america, even), but that's a pretty tiny piece of his biography.
i'm fine with celebrating, commemorating, acknowledging, memorializing the event which was an important milestone milestone in human history, but there's a lot of baggage there we as a society don't like to talk about. If the society dosent like talking about it, don't force it down their throats. It creates fissure within the fabric of our community. This seems like a great place to call people snowflakes. History is rough, putting your head in the sand and going "EVERYTHING IS FINE" is not a great way to live No everything is obviously not fine. But you can't erase the past, you have to do what's the best of the country advancing forward. It seems to me you are 100% advocating erasing the past so the country can advance forward I mean we are really diverse and accepting while able to manage the greatest army ever to exist and having number 1 economy and tech. It's pretty awesome.
I'm not sure if having the biggest army is really that good of a thing to have pride on, especially when theres other stuff in the US that could use the money that goes into it.
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On October 10 2017 07:41 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +Remember, "white" is something made up to oppress and marginalize non-white people, that's why "white people" were created. By whom and when? Are you thinking of social darwinism? Show nested quote +
"The discovery day" idea turns a man stumbling into a land mass, misnaming the population, proceeding to help exterminate the native inhabitants, then the ongoing oppression and imperialism that resulted into something to be celebrated, that's dumb.
A lot of discoveries are by accident- or rather they were trying to figure out one thing, but ended up finding something else. That doesn't diminish the discovery. Put it this way. If the reverse happened, would it not still be a significant moment in history? If in the 1400's, the Iroquois appeared off the coast of France in tall ships and that led to a permanent relationship between the continents, wouldn't that be worth noting? Even if the Iroquois were trying to get to Australia and found Europe instead? I think so. It could be both solemn and celebratory. Like a great many things in history, the consequences are both good and bad.
I'm thinking that "white people" were created to oppress non-white people. They aren't a thing, that's why people that didn't use to be white are white now and people who used to be called white aren't anymore.
He didn't discover anything though. Thinking Columbus "discovered" something is white supremacy. If indigenous people had sailed to Europe, no one would be saying "Native Americans discovered France" but because everything is viewed through the lens of white supremacy, it's perfectly sensible to say something like Columbus discovered America
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Norway28892 Posts
On October 10 2017 06:46 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 05:49 Liquid`Drone wrote:On October 10 2017 05:01 Danglars wrote:On October 10 2017 03:37 Nevuk wrote:
LA city council voted to rename it. Proves they can view the totality of indigenous peoples despite cannibalism, human sacrifice, slavery, and mutilation, but won’t extend the same treatment to Columbus. Thankfully, polling shows (Marist) that Americans aren’t as swayed as certain leadership councils. Happy Columbus Day, everyone. They're not calling it Aztec day or whatever? If it was 'discovery of america day' maybe you'd have a point, but seeing how Columbus actually was, having 'Columbus day' is kinda like Germany having a 'Hitler day', just with Hitler happening 500 years ago, the jews becoming virtually extinct and entirely devoid of worldly influence, and people somehow being totally fine with it until this point in time. If that was the case, I'd be in the 'hey, maybe jewish remembrance day is more appropriate than celebrating the guy who started the genocide' camp. Columbus Day is for celebrating his discovery, and nowadays Italian Americans in general. Not that he replaced one violent slavery-practicing people with another bloodthirsty slave-owning people. Although the former gets something akin to sainthood and the latter is compared to Hitler. Simply lovely. It’s just a holiday, but there’s agitators in my area making efforts to replace it for no good reason. Leave it be and celebrate indigenous peoples on another day. There’s way the hell too much 100% black soul revisionism on the man going on.
Totally a fan of more holidays, you guys work way too much as it is.  And yeah, there is definitely an issue in the sense that if you're gonna examine historical figures through modern lenses then virtually nobody is worthy of adoration. And maybe people are trying to change too many things too quickly and it makes people resist any change. And I think it's much more important that we actually teach the proper history than that we have the 'most ideal name for the public holiday' or whatever.
But at the same time, if I'm choosing, I do think the victims of genocide are more worthy of adoration than the people undertaking said genocide. The partial abandonment of the might makes right mentality is one of the best developments of mankind of the past 100 years as far as I'm concerned - and this development, that people are becoming more historically aware of how brutal our forefathers were, and that they are actually thinking that hey, this isn't a guy we should celebrate, is a good thing. I agree it's just a holiday and that it's not a big deal, but I think that argument goes both ways, it's just as much an argument for why changing the name is fine, as it's an argument for why we shouldn't bother.
Admittedly, I don't want us to rename Tuesday because it's a celebration of the norse god of war, who certainly inspired vikings during their just as abhorrent raids of murder rape slavery theft. I do think there are valid arguments for why we shouldn't change the name and I understand the opposition, but as far as I'm concerned, people wanting to is kind of an inevitable consequence of history being portrayed more accurately than it used to be, and people thinking 'what? why are we celebrating THIS guy?'
Also, I loved the south park episode tackling the issue. 
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On October 10 2017 07:48 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 07:44 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 10 2017 07:40 IyMoon wrote:On October 10 2017 07:37 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 10 2017 07:34 IyMoon wrote:On October 10 2017 07:32 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 10 2017 07:09 ticklishmusic wrote:
columbus was a heinous and incompetent shitbag while he was governor of the west indies, even by the standards of his time. sure he managed to sail over to america (which he didn't know he was america, even), but that's a pretty tiny piece of his biography.
i'm fine with celebrating, commemorating, acknowledging, memorializing the event which was an important milestone milestone in human history, but there's a lot of baggage there we as a society don't like to talk about. If the society dosent like talking about it, don't force it down their throats. It creates fissure within the fabric of our community. This seems like a great place to call people snowflakes. History is rough, putting your head in the sand and going "EVERYTHING IS FINE" is not a great way to live No everything is obviously not fine. But you can't erase the past, you have to do what's the best of the country advancing forward. It seems to me you are 100% advocating erasing the past so the country can advance forward I mean we are really diverse and accepting while able to manage the greatest army ever to exist and having number 1 economy and tech. It's pretty awesome. I'm not sure if having the biggest army is really that good of a thing to have pride on, especially when theres other stuff in the US that could use the money that goes into it.
Are you okay with Japan, South korea Germany to have their own nukes?
The only to maintain that you have the biggest guns on the block is to provide safety for your neighbours and make sure they don't do anything funny to each other.
The last two administration have done horrible job at it though.
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On October 10 2017 07:41 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 07:37 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 10 2017 07:34 IyMoon wrote:On October 10 2017 07:32 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 10 2017 07:09 ticklishmusic wrote:
columbus was a heinous and incompetent shitbag while he was governor of the west indies, even by the standards of his time. sure he managed to sail over to america (which he didn't know he was america, even), but that's a pretty tiny piece of his biography.
i'm fine with celebrating, commemorating, acknowledging, memorializing the event which was an important milestone milestone in human history, but there's a lot of baggage there we as a society don't like to talk about. If the society dosent like talking about it, don't force it down their throats. It creates fissure within the fabric of our community. This seems like a great place to call people snowflakes. History is rough, putting your head in the sand and going "EVERYTHING IS FINE" is not a great way to live No everything is obviously not fine. But you can't erase the past, you have to do what's the best of the country advancing forward. you're contradicting yourself potentially; what if the best thing for a country is erasing the past? at any rate, it'd help if you clarified whehter you're pro or anti columbus day, as with what you've posted so far either way could be justified.
Only fools want to erase the past. The past is a lesson. Imagine if Germany erased their past. They would have erased memories and lessons. New Hitler could rise and you don't have past to learn from. Obviously, this is an imaginary example but you get the point.
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jock -> that small portion of the left isn't the majority at TL; unless you're blatantly misrepresenting things and really streteching the definition to be something that it isn't. It's mostly just GH really; some others that are adjacent to the crazy left, but not part of it, wiht a pretty sufficient distinctions I'd say.
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On October 10 2017 07:52 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 07:48 Luolis wrote:On October 10 2017 07:44 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 10 2017 07:40 IyMoon wrote:On October 10 2017 07:37 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 10 2017 07:34 IyMoon wrote:On October 10 2017 07:32 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 10 2017 07:09 ticklishmusic wrote:
columbus was a heinous and incompetent shitbag while he was governor of the west indies, even by the standards of his time. sure he managed to sail over to america (which he didn't know he was america, even), but that's a pretty tiny piece of his biography.
i'm fine with celebrating, commemorating, acknowledging, memorializing the event which was an important milestone milestone in human history, but there's a lot of baggage there we as a society don't like to talk about. If the society dosent like talking about it, don't force it down their throats. It creates fissure within the fabric of our community. This seems like a great place to call people snowflakes. History is rough, putting your head in the sand and going "EVERYTHING IS FINE" is not a great way to live No everything is obviously not fine. But you can't erase the past, you have to do what's the best of the country advancing forward. It seems to me you are 100% advocating erasing the past so the country can advance forward I mean we are really diverse and accepting while able to manage the greatest army ever to exist and having number 1 economy and tech. It's pretty awesome. I'm not sure if having the biggest army is really that good of a thing to have pride on, especially when theres other stuff in the US that could use the money that goes into it. Are you okay with Japan, South korea Germany to have their own nukes? The only to maintain that you have the biggest guns on the block is to provide safety for your neighbours and make sure they don't do anything funny to each other. The last two administration have done horrible job at it though.
Iirc the us army does 1/3, if not more, of the military spending of the whole world. Do you not think that is a bit overkill, considering how your own citizens have trouble accessing healthcare, or your education could be a lot better? I'm not saying that the whole US military should be shutdown, im just saying that you guys spend too much on it.
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EPT
