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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On September 09 2017 08:05 Sermokala wrote:
I mean the maths certificate thing kinda gave it away. The point is that H1B visa abuse is sometimes replacing American college graduates because they are willing to take dirt pay to come to america. They aren't better at the job its no offence to them its that they didn't go to college for the job. India doesn't have the same education infrastructure that the united states does.
Speaking of education infrastructure anyone got any ideas where the Amazon HQ 2: Attack on wall-mart bugaloo is going to land. I know I'm biased in saying Minnesota has a good chance and is talking about setting them up at the vikings old HQ and building a spur of the light rail line to get them. those 50k jobs are gona get bid on like a brand new sports team with tax breaks and infrastructure pledges like crazy.
I'm hoping Vancouver.
We have 4 major (UVic, UBC, SFU, BCIT) universities that have technology graduates (BCIT technically gives diplomas, but honestly the top kids from there are as good as people from UBC/SFU, but just paid less for the paper)
If they set up shop here, I'm probably looking for a significant pay raise/jumping ship - assuming culture improves from the current Amazon shop (Sweatshop + long hours on most teams).
We already have a lot of large and small tech companies here, Amazon, Microsoft, SAP, Slack, Vizier etc. Depending on the location, I either walk an extra block, or take the train one more stop to pretty much all of them.
http://www.vancouversun.com/entertainment/movie-guide/Telus Garden opens doors employees/11166932/story.html is their "old" office
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/amazon-second-headquarters-1.4278642
I'm kinda doubtful that they'd put a second headquarters 4 hours by car away from their main HQ though, one east and one west coast HQ makes more sense.
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On September 09 2017 08:13 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 08:07 bo1b wrote:
It's the truth though, if he prefers it sugarcoated he can call me. If he doesn't like a random on the internet making a snide remark, imagine how the nation of america feels about what he said. It's a retarded thing to say, and following it to the natural conclusion of outsourcing all intellectual pursuits is silly. Any great nation must take priority of its own citizens, including natural born citizens (would you set up a family in a nation if they were going to pass you up at the slightest opportunity?) before importing other people. I doubt the foreigner is coming to America for anything more then money at this point. Good for him.
User was temp banned for describing another forum user as "blatantly autistic, horrendous with english, horrendously rude" and refusing to take a way out when offered one. Nation must? So, if you have got some little farmer in the US with ZERO understanding of maths or physics, how are they more precious to that nation than someone with higher education? "But... he was born here!". Yeah, so? How does that help? Who would contribute more in the long run? Couldn't an immigrant contribute as much as or more than a natural citizen? What was that about English when you can't even spell "whose" or English (hint: capital E)? You think I'm hurt? I wasn't born in an English speaking country. Try to speak a foreign language better than someone's native language, then talk shit.
It doesn't seem like you understand, but honestly, you're just coming off as bitter. "Take me, I know math and programming" does a good job at framing why you haven't managed to make it over here yet.
On September 09 2017 08:05 Sermokala wrote:
I mean the maths certificate thing kinda gave it away. The point is that H1B visa abuse is sometimes replacing American college graduates because they are willing to take dirt pay to come to america. They aren't better at the job its no offence to them its that they didn't go to college for the job. India doesn't have the same education infrastructure that the united states does.
Speaking of education infrastructure anyone got any ideas where the Amazon HQ 2: Attack on wall-mart bugaloo is going to land. I know I'm biased in saying Minnesota has a good chance and is talking about setting them up at the vikings old HQ and building a spur of the light rail line to get them. those 50k jobs are gona get bid on like a brand new sports team with tax breaks and infrastructure pledges like crazy.
Portland subreddit is already foaming at the mouth at the mere thought of the gentrification that would take place if they decided to open shop in Portland. Licking my lips and cheering "build, baby, build!"
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I am anti-immigrant now. This must be like when Kwark because a leftist by existing in America. I guess wanting an abused visa to be less abused makes me hate all immigrants. Or maybe Darkness should have read that article I posted and did his home work. Edit: whoa, there. Just caught up. He better hope his potential employers don't find his TL account. Not a strong showing
On September 09 2017 07:45 zlefin wrote:
well, plansix is liberal, but tends to be a kinda shitty poster in general; mohdoo, I dunno, I thought he was fairly liberal (don't keep perfect track on everyone of course)
but I sometimes skim a lot. You'll have to check wtih them on what they said; I don't remember that spewing real immigrant-hate kinda stuff (and there's others on here from whom you really can hear that kind of stuff).
If you think the thread as a whole is strongly anti-immigrant, I'd guess your calibration is off.
I'm gunna put this post in a tiny frame on my home office. Right next to the power switch to my monitor. That way, I will be able to laugh every time I sit down at my PC.
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edit:: wanted to edit, not quote
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United States42960 Posts
On September 09 2017 08:21 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 08:13 sc-darkness wrote:On September 09 2017 08:07 bo1b wrote:
It's the truth though, if he prefers it sugarcoated he can call me. If he doesn't like a random on the internet making a snide remark, imagine how the nation of america feels about what he said. It's a retarded thing to say, and following it to the natural conclusion of outsourcing all intellectual pursuits is silly. Any great nation must take priority of its own citizens, including natural born citizens (would you set up a family in a nation if they were going to pass you up at the slightest opportunity?) before importing other people. I doubt the foreigner is coming to America for anything more then money at this point. Good for him.
User was temp banned for describing another forum user as "blatantly autistic, horrendous with english, horrendously rude" and refusing to take a way out when offered one. Nation must? So, if you have got some little farmer in the US with ZERO understanding of maths or physics, how are they more precious to that nation than someone with higher education? "But... he was born here!". Yeah, so? How does that help? Who would contribute more in the long run? Couldn't an immigrant contribute as much as or more than a natural citizen? What was that about English when you can't even spell "whose" or English (hint: capital E)? You think I'm hurt? I wasn't born in an English speaking country. Try to speak a foreign language better than someone's native language, then talk shit. It doesn't seem like you understand, but honestly, you're just coming off as bitter. "Take me, I know math and programming" does a good job at framing why you haven't managed to make it over here yet.
Should he not be bitter? Citizenship is a birth lottery. Having your ambitions capped, not because of ability or effort but because of where you were born, is a frustration surely everyone here can understand. Immigration to the US isn't about what you are, what you believe, or what you can offer to the country, it's purely about luck. I happened to meet an American and marry her and so here I am. Do I deserve it more?
I think I'll make a good American when I naturalize in two years, certainly a much better American than many you'll meet. But I'm not getting citizenship because any of the stuff that will make me a good American, I'm getting it because a certain amount of time has passed. The bar I had to clear was not dying for the right number of years.
I don't have a good proposal for fixing HB1 visas but I dislike the narrow nativism that believes that being an American is more about where you were born than who you choose to be. If someone looks at America and thinks "yeah, I can get behind that", and has the genuine wish to contribute to the country, I'm good with them getting the chance.
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One other thing about Amazon, I'm pretty sure Toronto/Vancouver are at the top of the list. They both have large talent pools to draw from and according to this chart:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/91qsdcm.jpg)
We are literally the best quality software devs outside of silicon valley at half the price (I really wish it weren't half - Amazon moving up here and providing more demand for us would increase that significantly, I hope)
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I feel his disappointed could be expressed in a less hostile manner.
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On September 09 2017 08:30 Lmui wrote:One other thing about Amazon, I'm pretty sure Toronto/Vancouver are at the top of the list. They both have large talent pools to draw from and according to this chart: + Show Spoiler +We are literally the best quality software devs outside of silicon valley at half the price (I really wish it weren't half - Amazon moving up here and providing more demand for us would increase that significantly, I hope)
I have much skepticism of this graph. But then again I have much skepticism of the tech industry and their self worship.
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On September 09 2017 08:31 Plansix wrote:
I feel his disappointed could be expressed in a less hostile manner.
My disappointment with Trump has started much earlier than my application for H1B jobs. You can be sure of that. I don't think Trump has many supporters outside the US. He is deeply unpopular in Europe. I tell you this as European.
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On September 09 2017 08:33 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 08:30 Lmui wrote:One other thing about Amazon, I'm pretty sure Toronto/Vancouver are at the top of the list. They both have large talent pools to draw from and according to this chart: + Show Spoiler +We are literally the best quality software devs outside of silicon valley at half the price (I really wish it weren't half - Amazon moving up here and providing more demand for us would increase that significantly, I hope) I have much skepticism of this graph. But then again I have much skepticism of the tech industry and their self worship.
What surprises me more is actually this claim about "work quality" which is then measured in participation in certain top CSI programs...
This must be an American thing...
Because here I know software development companies near the top end of the food chain, who pay absurdly high, but don't give a damn about degrees at all and in fact most of their devs don't have any degree. And it doesn't matter to their wage at all.
And most people in that business confirm that from other companies too.
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United States42960 Posts
Hell, at its most basic level, a human adult represents a pretty significant investment in resources and effort over time. If another nation put all the investment in but your nation gets the chance to poach them then unless they're actually destructive it's probably going to be a good bet. Their labour boosts your GDP, their earnings are spent locally, the profits from their labour go to the hands of your companies, your stockholders, your communities. Make that a highly educated adult human and it's an even better deal, some other society put the work in to foster talent that could compete against your own and you're just stealing the finished product and furthering your own competitive advantage.
You don't have to take the bad hombres, nor the people who have nothing to offer. But the American population does not need protection from foreigners who actively want to become Americans, the American population descends from foreigners who actively want to become Americans (and people who lived here before, and people who were brought here as slaves).
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On September 09 2017 08:40 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 08:33 Plansix wrote:On September 09 2017 08:30 Lmui wrote:One other thing about Amazon, I'm pretty sure Toronto/Vancouver are at the top of the list. They both have large talent pools to draw from and according to this chart: + Show Spoiler +We are literally the best quality software devs outside of silicon valley at half the price (I really wish it weren't half - Amazon moving up here and providing more demand for us would increase that significantly, I hope) I have much skepticism of this graph. But then again I have much skepticism of the tech industry and their self worship. What surprises me more is actually this claim about "work quality" which is then measured in participation in certain top CSI programs... This must be an American thing... Because here I know software development companies near the top end of the food chain, who pay absurdly high, but don't give a damn about degrees at all and in fact most of their devs don't have any degree. And it doesn't matter to their wage at all. And most people in that business confirm that from other companies too.
Is that in Germany? Surprising considering we've moved away from the era of Bill Gates and Steve jobs (I mean they had no degree).
On September 09 2017 08:41 KwarK wrote:
Hell, at its most basic level, a human adult represents a pretty significant investment in resources and effort over time. If another nation put all the investment in but your nation gets the chance to poach them then unless they're actually destructive it's probably going to be a good bet. Their labour boosts your GDP, their earnings are spent locally, the profits from their labour go to the hands of your companies, your stockholders, your communities. Make that a highly educated adult human and it's an even better deal, some other society put the work in to foster talent that could compete against your own and you're just stealing the finished product and furthering your own competitive advantage.
You don't have to take the bad hombres, nor the people who have nothing to offer. But the American population does not need protection from foreigners who actively want to become Americans, the American population descends from foreigners who actively want to become Americans (and people who lived here before, and people who were brought here as slaves).
I think American people need protection from people like Trump. 0 paid annual leave. 0 paid maternity leave. Unlimited work week. I know it's employers who decide that but that breaks work/life balance. I quite like Sanders though. He seems like a guy who can bring justice. 
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On September 09 2017 08:40 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 08:33 Plansix wrote:On September 09 2017 08:30 Lmui wrote:One other thing about Amazon, I'm pretty sure Toronto/Vancouver are at the top of the list. They both have large talent pools to draw from and according to this chart: + Show Spoiler +We are literally the best quality software devs outside of silicon valley at half the price (I really wish it weren't half - Amazon moving up here and providing more demand for us would increase that significantly, I hope) I have much skepticism of this graph. But then again I have much skepticism of the tech industry and their self worship. What surprises me more is actually this claim about "work quality" which is then measured in participation in certain top CSI programs... This must be an American thing... Because here I know software development companies near the top end of the food chain, who pay absurdly high, but don't give a damn about degrees at all and in fact most of their devs don't have any degree. And it doesn't matter to their wage at all. And most people in that business confirm that from other companies too.
The entire tech industry seems to be high on own supply. They have been selling the idea that they are the next revolution in innovation that they all believe it now. It does not shock me that they made a graph that puts the two centers of the tech industry at the highest of "work quality" column. One of them asked: "how do we even measure greatness?" and the project lead said "we look within." And then the graph was born.
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On September 09 2017 08:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 08:40 mahrgell wrote:On September 09 2017 08:33 Plansix wrote:On September 09 2017 08:30 Lmui wrote:One other thing about Amazon, I'm pretty sure Toronto/Vancouver are at the top of the list. They both have large talent pools to draw from and according to this chart: + Show Spoiler +We are literally the best quality software devs outside of silicon valley at half the price (I really wish it weren't half - Amazon moving up here and providing more demand for us would increase that significantly, I hope) I have much skepticism of this graph. But then again I have much skepticism of the tech industry and their self worship. What surprises me more is actually this claim about "work quality" which is then measured in participation in certain top CSI programs... This must be an American thing... Because here I know software development companies near the top end of the food chain, who pay absurdly high, but don't give a damn about degrees at all and in fact most of their devs don't have any degree. And it doesn't matter to their wage at all. And most people in that business confirm that from other companies too. The entire tech industry seems to be high on own supply. They have been selling the idea that they are the next revolution in innovation that they all believe it now. It does not shock me that they made a graph that puts the two centers of the tech industry at the highest of "work quality" column. One of them asked: "how do we even measure greatness?" and the project lead said "we look within." And then the graph was born.
What do you work? Are you a doctor, a physicist, a mathematician, an austronaut, etc? How do you contribute?
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On September 09 2017 08:55 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 08:50 Plansix wrote:On September 09 2017 08:40 mahrgell wrote:On September 09 2017 08:33 Plansix wrote:On September 09 2017 08:30 Lmui wrote:One other thing about Amazon, I'm pretty sure Toronto/Vancouver are at the top of the list. They both have large talent pools to draw from and according to this chart: + Show Spoiler +We are literally the best quality software devs outside of silicon valley at half the price (I really wish it weren't half - Amazon moving up here and providing more demand for us would increase that significantly, I hope) I have much skepticism of this graph. But then again I have much skepticism of the tech industry and their self worship. What surprises me more is actually this claim about "work quality" which is then measured in participation in certain top CSI programs... This must be an American thing... Because here I know software development companies near the top end of the food chain, who pay absurdly high, but don't give a damn about degrees at all and in fact most of their devs don't have any degree. And it doesn't matter to their wage at all. And most people in that business confirm that from other companies too. The entire tech industry seems to be high on own supply. They have been selling the idea that they are the next revolution in innovation that they all believe it now. It does not shock me that they made a graph that puts the two centers of the tech industry at the highest of "work quality" column. One of them asked: "how do we even measure greatness?" and the project lead said "we look within." And then the graph was born. What do you work? Are you a doctor, a physicist, a mathematician, an austronaut, etc? How do you contribute?
As much as I'm pro-immigration, I think measuring anyone on 'how much they contribute' whether native or immigrant is also reprehensible. P6 is not criticising you personally, there's no need to act like it. Not only that, I think he's right - few industries seem to be further up their own arses than the tech industry.
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On September 09 2017 08:55 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 08:50 Plansix wrote:On September 09 2017 08:40 mahrgell wrote:On September 09 2017 08:33 Plansix wrote:On September 09 2017 08:30 Lmui wrote:One other thing about Amazon, I'm pretty sure Toronto/Vancouver are at the top of the list. They both have large talent pools to draw from and according to this chart: + Show Spoiler +We are literally the best quality software devs outside of silicon valley at half the price (I really wish it weren't half - Amazon moving up here and providing more demand for us would increase that significantly, I hope) I have much skepticism of this graph. But then again I have much skepticism of the tech industry and their self worship. What surprises me more is actually this claim about "work quality" which is then measured in participation in certain top CSI programs... This must be an American thing... Because here I know software development companies near the top end of the food chain, who pay absurdly high, but don't give a damn about degrees at all and in fact most of their devs don't have any degree. And it doesn't matter to their wage at all. And most people in that business confirm that from other companies too. The entire tech industry seems to be high on own supply. They have been selling the idea that they are the next revolution in innovation that they all believe it now. It does not shock me that they made a graph that puts the two centers of the tech industry at the highest of "work quality" column. One of them asked: "how do we even measure greatness?" and the project lead said "we look within." And then the graph was born. What do you work? Are you a doctor, a physicist, a mathematician, an austronaut, etc? How do you contribute?
I am a paralegal at a law firm. I manage much title litigation and cooperate real estate.
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On September 09 2017 08:59 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 08:55 sc-darkness wrote:On September 09 2017 08:50 Plansix wrote:On September 09 2017 08:40 mahrgell wrote:On September 09 2017 08:33 Plansix wrote:On September 09 2017 08:30 Lmui wrote:One other thing about Amazon, I'm pretty sure Toronto/Vancouver are at the top of the list. They both have large talent pools to draw from and according to this chart: + Show Spoiler +We are literally the best quality software devs outside of silicon valley at half the price (I really wish it weren't half - Amazon moving up here and providing more demand for us would increase that significantly, I hope) I have much skepticism of this graph. But then again I have much skepticism of the tech industry and their self worship. What surprises me more is actually this claim about "work quality" which is then measured in participation in certain top CSI programs... This must be an American thing... Because here I know software development companies near the top end of the food chain, who pay absurdly high, but don't give a damn about degrees at all and in fact most of their devs don't have any degree. And it doesn't matter to their wage at all. And most people in that business confirm that from other companies too. The entire tech industry seems to be high on own supply. They have been selling the idea that they are the next revolution in innovation that they all believe it now. It does not shock me that they made a graph that puts the two centers of the tech industry at the highest of "work quality" column. One of them asked: "how do we even measure greatness?" and the project lead said "we look within." And then the graph was born. What do you work? Are you a doctor, a physicist, a mathematician, an austronaut, etc? How do you contribute? As much as I'm pro-immigration, I think measuring anyone on 'how much they contribute' whether native or immigrant is also reprehensible. P6 is not criticising you personally, there's no need to act like it. Not only that, I think he's right - few industries seem to be further up their own arses than the tech industry.
Note that I work in the tech industry so I could be biased. However, I think the IT industry has truly brought innovation - computers are everywhere to help people. Why can't this be acknowledged? If you don't believe that IT has brought a high level of innovation, then PLEASE specify another field where innovation is at a high level. I'm OK with that. I'm not OK with "blah blah IT tech industry is overrated". In other words, please opt for constructive criticism with some examples.
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I don't have a high opinion of the robber barons of the 1900's of the industrial revolution either. In general, once a industry gets big and becomes the establishment, they all sort of act the same. I look at companies like Uber and its value and question if this industry isn't set to implode at any moment. Plus "Leaders in Innovation" is starting to sound a lot like "Captain's of Industry".
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On September 09 2017 09:01 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 08:59 kollin wrote:On September 09 2017 08:55 sc-darkness wrote:On September 09 2017 08:50 Plansix wrote:On September 09 2017 08:40 mahrgell wrote:On September 09 2017 08:33 Plansix wrote:On September 09 2017 08:30 Lmui wrote:One other thing about Amazon, I'm pretty sure Toronto/Vancouver are at the top of the list. They both have large talent pools to draw from and according to this chart: + Show Spoiler +We are literally the best quality software devs outside of silicon valley at half the price (I really wish it weren't half - Amazon moving up here and providing more demand for us would increase that significantly, I hope) I have much skepticism of this graph. But then again I have much skepticism of the tech industry and their self worship. What surprises me more is actually this claim about "work quality" which is then measured in participation in certain top CSI programs... This must be an American thing... Because here I know software development companies near the top end of the food chain, who pay absurdly high, but don't give a damn about degrees at all and in fact most of their devs don't have any degree. And it doesn't matter to their wage at all. And most people in that business confirm that from other companies too. The entire tech industry seems to be high on own supply. They have been selling the idea that they are the next revolution in innovation that they all believe it now. It does not shock me that they made a graph that puts the two centers of the tech industry at the highest of "work quality" column. One of them asked: "how do we even measure greatness?" and the project lead said "we look within." And then the graph was born. What do you work? Are you a doctor, a physicist, a mathematician, an austronaut, etc? How do you contribute? As much as I'm pro-immigration, I think measuring anyone on 'how much they contribute' whether native or immigrant is also reprehensible. P6 is not criticising you personally, there's no need to act like it. Not only that, I think he's right - few industries seem to be further up their own arses than the tech industry. Note I work in the tech industry so I could be biased. However, I think the IT industry has truly brought innovation - computers are everywhere to help people. What can't this be acknowledged? If you don't believe that IT has brought high level of innovation, then PLEASE specify another field where innovation is at a high level. I'm OK with that. I'm not OK with "blah blah IT tech industry is overrated".
Of course the tech industry has produced a lot of innovation. I still think, as a whole, it is placed on too high a pedestal by some people and there's a culture of worship by some around it that I think is excessive. Especially when I look at the 'leaders' in tech eg Musk, the Google guys etc, I can't help but feel people idolise them far too much.
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On September 09 2017 09:05 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 09:01 sc-darkness wrote:On September 09 2017 08:59 kollin wrote:On September 09 2017 08:55 sc-darkness wrote:On September 09 2017 08:50 Plansix wrote:On September 09 2017 08:40 mahrgell wrote:On September 09 2017 08:33 Plansix wrote:On September 09 2017 08:30 Lmui wrote:One other thing about Amazon, I'm pretty sure Toronto/Vancouver are at the top of the list. They both have large talent pools to draw from and according to this chart: + Show Spoiler +We are literally the best quality software devs outside of silicon valley at half the price (I really wish it weren't half - Amazon moving up here and providing more demand for us would increase that significantly, I hope) I have much skepticism of this graph. But then again I have much skepticism of the tech industry and their self worship. What surprises me more is actually this claim about "work quality" which is then measured in participation in certain top CSI programs... This must be an American thing... Because here I know software development companies near the top end of the food chain, who pay absurdly high, but don't give a damn about degrees at all and in fact most of their devs don't have any degree. And it doesn't matter to their wage at all. And most people in that business confirm that from other companies too. The entire tech industry seems to be high on own supply. They have been selling the idea that they are the next revolution in innovation that they all believe it now. It does not shock me that they made a graph that puts the two centers of the tech industry at the highest of "work quality" column. One of them asked: "how do we even measure greatness?" and the project lead said "we look within." And then the graph was born. What do you work? Are you a doctor, a physicist, a mathematician, an austronaut, etc? How do you contribute? As much as I'm pro-immigration, I think measuring anyone on 'how much they contribute' whether native or immigrant is also reprehensible. P6 is not criticising you personally, there's no need to act like it. Not only that, I think he's right - few industries seem to be further up their own arses than the tech industry. Note I work in the tech industry so I could be biased. However, I think the IT industry has truly brought innovation - computers are everywhere to help people. What can't this be acknowledged? If you don't believe that IT has brought high level of innovation, then PLEASE specify another field where innovation is at a high level. I'm OK with that. I'm not OK with "blah blah IT tech industry is overrated". Of course the tech industry has produced a lot of innovation. I still think, as a whole, it is placed on too high a pedestal by some people and there's a culture of worship by some around it that I think is excessive. Especially when I look at the 'leaders' in tech eg Musk, the Google guys etc, I can't help but feel people idolise them far too much.
Well, maybe. I don't follow them as much so I don't know. I suppose it's refreshing and exciting for some people to get new technology. I find astronomy impressive though. That has also brought some nice innovation and research.
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EPT
