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On September 09 2017 07:41 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 07:02 GreenHorizons wrote:
This is exactly the type of stuff I was talking about Verizon doing almost a decade ago. (Skip to 2:20)
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Do former Hillary supporters think this Verrit/Daou thing/guy is as dumb as everyone else thinks it is, or are her former supporters still eating this stuff up?
some of the stuff is dumb/excessive false; some of it is true; (looking at the underlying article) the headline on the tweet itself, is false and dumb. sc-darkness; whatchu talking about? most of the people here seem fairly fine with immigration; it is a left-leaning board after all. or by "here" did you mean something other than on this discussion board?
I mean this thread. Mohdoo and Plansix spewed some anti-immigrant shit yesterday.
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On September 09 2017 07:43 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 07:41 zlefin wrote:some of the stuff is dumb/excessive false; some of it is true; (looking at the underlying article) the headline on the tweet itself, is false and dumb. sc-darkness; whatchu talking about? most of the people here seem fairly fine with immigration; it is a left-leaning board after all. or by "here" did you mean something other than on this discussion board? I mean this thread. Mohdoo and Plansix spewed some anti-immigrant shit yesterday.
well, plansix is liberal, but tends to be a kinda shitty poster in general; mohdoo, I dunno, I thought he was fairly liberal (don't keep perfect track on everyone of course)
but I sometimes skim a lot. You'll have to check wtih them on what they said; I don't remember that spewing real immigrant-hate kinda stuff (and there's others on here from whom you really can hear that kind of stuff).
If you think the thread as a whole is strongly anti-immigrant, I'd guess your calibration is off.
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scdarkness has confused anti immigrant with not accepting everyone in with open arms.
Here's a thought, an entire nation doesn't exist for the sole purpose of you emigrating to it in order to make money.
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it might have been darkness but someone yesterday was trying to defend the H1B visa abuse that's been going on recently to fill programmer slots. A weird specific theme was that the people brought into america from the H1B were somehow better at their job from a 2 week java course then 4 year CS graduate.
I mean america was designated Europe dumping round for people that they didn't want but it wasn't socially acceptable to force them to leave or kill them.
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If someone like me with a Computer Science degree, maths certificate and experience is "everyone", then you're a very, very sad guy.
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United States43210 Posts
On September 09 2017 07:48 bo1b wrote:
scdarkness has confused anti immigrant with not accepting everyone in with open arms.
Here's a thought, an entire nation doesn't exist for the sole purpose of you emigrating to it in order to make money.
No, but a nation should embrace people coming there to because they believe in the values of the nation and want to be a part of that for the benefit of both.
Immigrants don't come to a country to get as much out of it as possible. They go there because they want to live there, because they want to be a part of that society. They go there because what they have to offer has value to the country.
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On September 09 2017 07:51 sc-darkness wrote:
If someone like me with a Computer Science degree, maths certificate and experience is "everyone", then you're a very, very sad guy.
And you have mistaken that the entire H1B discussion was about you.
Hint: It wasn't. Nobody cares about you.
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Here are your quotes that make you seem like such an amazing investment for america:
On September 08 2017 03:47 sc-darkness wrote:
Fuck Trump. H1B visas are much harder now.
On September 08 2017 06:55 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2017 04:59 Mohdoo wrote:On September 08 2017 03:47 sc-darkness wrote:
Fuck Trump. H1B visas are much harder now. This is music to my ears. I am thrilled to hear this. If an immigrant with no connections and less knowledge of English can do the job as well as you or better, then that's your fault. Just saying.
On September 08 2017 07:53 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2017 07:11 Plansix wrote:On September 08 2017 06:55 sc-darkness wrote:On September 08 2017 04:59 Mohdoo wrote:On September 08 2017 03:47 sc-darkness wrote:
Fuck Trump. H1B visas are much harder now. This is music to my ears. I am thrilled to hear this. If an immigrant with no connections and less knowledge of English can do the job as well as you or better, then that's your fault. Just saying. Nations gotta look out for its citizens, this isn't a meritocracy. Plus the H1B visa program has been busted and abused for a long time. https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/20/15370248/trump-h-1b-visa-reform-tech-worker-outsourcing-capBut it’s how H1-B visas are being used by applicants that’s really changed. Data from the 2016 batch of H-1B petitions show that the top 10 sponsors of H-1B visa workers in the US are all corporations with large outsourcing businesses: Indian companies like Infosys, Tata, and Wipro, which pioneered the business, and US-based firms like IBM, Accenture, and Cognizant, which saw the success of the Indian contractors and began offing their own competing outsourcing programs. Those 10 firms have more workers currently employed through the program than the next 90 companies combined, a group that includes all of America’s largest tech companies and banks.
That means that the annual lottery for H1-B visas is now overwhelmed by companies that have built businesses based on foreign labor and business that are fostering a massive outsourcing industry. It used to take months for the program to reach its annual cap. This year it took five days. “The program is used for some really bright people and in the right way in certain cases, but it’s become overwhelmed by bad actors,” says Hira. “The laws and rules were written at the behest of industry, and employers love the program, because they get to hold the visa, pay lower wages, and avoid providing benefits,” says Hira. “It’s worth tens of billions of dollars to them, which is why they have fought any sort of sensible reform.” Hira estimates that roughly 1.7 million jobs have been offshored to India alone, and though other factors are in play, the H-1B program has helped facilitate that process. “The question is, can you repair the program, can you realign it, so the reality meets the intent?” It is a bad system and needs to be changed. If that nation's citizens are uneducated, have no higher education and do worse job, how are they better than a foreigner with higher education who can do the job better? Your logic is flawed. Foreigner with higher education will almost always outperform someone who is less educated and they can contribute more. It's better for country and economy. I see no benefit in "nation should protect its citizens" in this case. You're fighting a losing battle here. 
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On September 09 2017 07:41 sc-darkness wrote:
Why are Americans here so anti-immigrants? What happened to the "American dream" and stuff? I thought it was a liberal country, freedom, blah blah. I guess not? Propaganda only?
The idea that any American citizen can pull himself up by his bootstraps and make a decent life for himself? That does involve debate on the process of who comes in to become citizens. If you consider Plansix and Mohdoo to be anti immigrant in their debating, chances are you need to view things from the host country perspective. Topics they raised (and even more) are applicable and shouldn't get tarred with a label and somewhat closed to debate.
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On September 09 2017 07:53 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 07:48 bo1b wrote:
scdarkness has confused anti immigrant with not accepting everyone in with open arms.
Here's a thought, an entire nation doesn't exist for the sole purpose of you emigrating to it in order to make money. No, but a nation should embrace people coming there to because they believe in the values of the nation and want to be a part of that for the benefit of both. Immigrants don't come to a country to get as much out of it as possible. They go there because they want to live there, because they want to be a part of that society. They go there because what they have to offer has value to the country.
I don't think this person shows the values at all tbh, I see someone who thinks a natural citizen should be passed up for a someone born overseas with 0 ties to America. The message of, if the citizen isn't good enough tough shit here's a foreigner to do it in the long run has some pretty bad consequences.
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bo1b
#1 democracy
#2 truth (if you prefer it sugarcoated, call me)
#3 same
I see nothing wrong with these quotes. Only openly anti-immigrant guy like you would oppose them.
On September 09 2017 07:56 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 07:53 KwarK wrote:On September 09 2017 07:48 bo1b wrote:
scdarkness has confused anti immigrant with not accepting everyone in with open arms.
Here's a thought, an entire nation doesn't exist for the sole purpose of you emigrating to it in order to make money. No, but a nation should embrace people coming there to because they believe in the values of the nation and want to be a part of that for the benefit of both. Immigrants don't come to a country to get as much out of it as possible. They go there because they want to live there, because they want to be a part of that society. They go there because what they have to offer has value to the country. I don't think this person shows the values at all tbh, I see someone who thinks a natural citizen should be passed up for a someone born overseas with 0 ties to America. The message of, if the citizen isn't good enough tough shit here's a foreigner to do it in the long run has some pretty bad consequences.
Bad consequences like what? America has a huge population which was once immigrant.
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Is it in America's interests to hire someone who's social skills are so poor that the only conclusion is they're: blatantly autistic, horrendous with english, horrendously rude?
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United States43210 Posts
On September 09 2017 07:56 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 07:53 KwarK wrote:On September 09 2017 07:48 bo1b wrote:
scdarkness has confused anti immigrant with not accepting everyone in with open arms.
Here's a thought, an entire nation doesn't exist for the sole purpose of you emigrating to it in order to make money. No, but a nation should embrace people coming there to because they believe in the values of the nation and want to be a part of that for the benefit of both. Immigrants don't come to a country to get as much out of it as possible. They go there because they want to live there, because they want to be a part of that society. They go there because what they have to offer has value to the country. I don't think this person shows the values at all tbh, I see someone who thinks a natural citizen should be passed up for a someone born overseas with 0 ties to America. The message of, if the citizen isn't good enough tough shit here's a foreigner to do it in the long run has some pretty bad consequences.
Citizenship is a piece of paper that some people win at birth. It's who you are and what you believe that matters. A foreigner that comes to America because they believe in the ideals behind America is likely to become a far better American than an apathetic loser born here. The foreigner made a choice, they decided that America was where they wanted to be. The person who stays where they're born, theirs is a much shallower level of commitment.
Birth citizenship is about the lowest imaginable bar to clear when it comes to achievement.
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darkness, i'd say you're letting your personal situation affect the accuracy of your assessment of where people stand on immigration in general; it's causing you have to have an inaccurate assessment of where people in the thread actually are. especially sinc eyou're conflating the issues with H1b, which are known and considerable, with the more general issues of immigration. and this board would tend to have a higher % of tech workers, who're one of the groups more affected by H1b abuse.
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United States43210 Posts
On September 09 2017 07:58 bo1b wrote:
Is it in America's interests to hire someone who's social skills are so poor that the only conclusion is they're: blatantly autistic, horrendous with english, horrendously rude?
If that was directed at him then you owe him an apology.
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I mean the maths certificate thing kinda gave it away. The point is that H1B visa abuse is sometimes replacing American college graduates because they are willing to take dirt pay to come to america. They aren't better at the job its no offence to them its that they didn't go to college for the job. India doesn't have the same education infrastructure that the united states does.
Speaking of education infrastructure anyone got any ideas where the Amazon HQ 2: Attack on wall-mart bugaloo is going to land. I know I'm biased in saying Minnesota has a good chance and is talking about setting them up at the vikings old HQ and building a spur of the light rail line to get them. those 50k jobs are gona get bid on like a brand new sports team with tax breaks and infrastructure pledges like crazy.
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My bet would be on Minneapolis/St. Paul, Milwaukee or Madison, or Omaha.
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It's the truth though, if he prefers it sugarcoated he can call me. If he doesn't like a random on the internet making a snide remark, imagine how the nation of america feels about what he said. It's a retarded thing to say, and following it to the natural conclusion of outsourcing all intellectual pursuits is silly. Any great nation must take priority of its own citizens, including natural born citizens (would you set up a family in a nation if they were going to pass you up at the slightest opportunity?) before importing other people. I doubt the foreigner is coming to America for anything more then money at this point. Good for him.
User was temp banned for describing another forum user as "blatantly autistic, horrendous with english, horrendously rude" and refusing to take a way out when offered one.
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United Kingdom8380 Posts
On September 09 2017 08:07 bo1b wrote:
Any great nation must take priority of its own citizens, including natural born citizens (would you set up a family in a nation if they were going to pass you up at the slightest opportunity?) before importing other people.
Do you think a government should do this because it's expedient to, or because it's the right thing to do?
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On September 09 2017 08:07 bo1b wrote:
It's the truth though, if he prefers it sugarcoated he can call me. If he doesn't like a random on the internet making a snide remark, imagine how the nation of america feels about what he said. It's a retarded thing to say, and following it to the natural conclusion of outsourcing all intellectual pursuits is silly. Any great nation must take priority of its own citizens, including natural born citizens (would you set up a family in a nation if they were going to pass you up at the slightest opportunity?) before importing other people. I doubt the foreigner is coming to America for anything more then money at this point. Good for him.
User was temp banned for describing another forum user as "blatantly autistic, horrendous with english, horrendously rude" and refusing to take a way out when offered one.
Nation must? So, if you have got some little farmer in the US with ZERO understanding of maths or physics, how are they more precious to that nation than someone with higher education? "But... he was born here!". Yeah, so? How does that help? Who would contribute more in the long run? Couldn't an immigrant contribute as much as or more than a natural citizen?
What was that about English when you can't even spell "whose" or English (hint: capital E)? You think I'm hurt? I wasn't born in an English speaking country. Try to speak a foreign language better than someone's native language, then talk shit.
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EPT
