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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8614

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15742 Posts
August 31 2017 18:01 GMT
#172261
On September 01 2017 02:40 Kyadytim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2017 15:51 Mohdoo wrote:
On August 31 2017 15:46 Kyadytim wrote:
Good point. I guess it kind of surprised me because Shkreli might be the most hated person in the US at the moment. I wonder if there's any way to leverage this into a wedge between Trump's internet fanbase and Trump's offline base, which is older and rural and I'd imagine therefor has a substantially different opinion of Shkreli. Maybe if TD managed to make a pardon for Shkreli an issue that Trump tweeted that he was considering or something.


Hated by who? Anti-pharma is largely a left perspective. People who feel unjustly weakened and underappreciated are very likely to support someone like Shkreli because Shkreli looks like these guys while having a ton of money. He is what they were *supposed* to be, had it not been for things like affirmative action. He is obnoxious, outspoken, and doesn't hesitate to throw out a middle finger. For people in their early 20s who struggle with confidence, he is somewhat of a beacon of "Yeah, see? This is what I WOULD be, had it not been for..."

One of the things Trump campaigned on was lowering drug prices. Connected to that, I'd imagine that the older part of Trump's core support would be more likely to know people who were hit hard by some of Shkreli's price hikes.


At the very least, Shkreli has a lot of support on T_D.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
August 31 2017 18:03 GMT
#172262
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
August 31 2017 18:14 GMT
#172263
On September 01 2017 03:01 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2017 02:40 Kyadytim wrote:
On August 31 2017 15:51 Mohdoo wrote:
On August 31 2017 15:46 Kyadytim wrote:
Good point. I guess it kind of surprised me because Shkreli might be the most hated person in the US at the moment. I wonder if there's any way to leverage this into a wedge between Trump's internet fanbase and Trump's offline base, which is older and rural and I'd imagine therefor has a substantially different opinion of Shkreli. Maybe if TD managed to make a pardon for Shkreli an issue that Trump tweeted that he was considering or something.


Hated by who? Anti-pharma is largely a left perspective. People who feel unjustly weakened and underappreciated are very likely to support someone like Shkreli because Shkreli looks like these guys while having a ton of money. He is what they were *supposed* to be, had it not been for things like affirmative action. He is obnoxious, outspoken, and doesn't hesitate to throw out a middle finger. For people in their early 20s who struggle with confidence, he is somewhat of a beacon of "Yeah, see? This is what I WOULD be, had it not been for..."

One of the things Trump campaigned on was lowering drug prices. Connected to that, I'd imagine that the older part of Trump's core support would be more likely to know people who were hit hard by some of Shkreli's price hikes.


At the very least, Shkreli has a lot of support on T_D.

Reddit's also likely to be the exact opposite of "the older part of Trump's core support" though.
Moderator
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-31 18:29:45
August 31 2017 18:25 GMT
#172264
On September 01 2017 02:40 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2017 02:30 Piledriver wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/greg-abbott-cobb-county-police-officer-seen-on-video-telling-motorist-we-only-shoot-black-people/


Dash-cam video from July 2016 shows a white female driver telling Cobb County police Lt. Greg Abbott she was scared to move her hands in order to get her cellphone, multiple news outlets reported. Abbott, who also is white, interrupts her and says, "But you're not black. Remember, we only shoot black people."


Being a brown person myself, its somewhat scary for me since I used to live in Cobb County a couple of years ago, and still drive through there occasionally. I get that it was somewhat in jest, but you have to figure that deep down inside, he knows its true in some level and thats why he instinctively makes the joke.

Yeah, that is an amazingly stupid thing to say in this political climate.


Yep, it was.

I disagree though with the assessment that "he knows it's true in some levels, so he instinctively makes that joke". That's idiotic. First of all, it's actually not true at all, and second of all, does "being a cop" not come with a synoptic reprogramming.

Don't get me wrong, it's an idiotic thing to say as a cop, but that has more to do with a misjudged "option" to disarm a situation, than an "inherent programming deep down inside to shoot black people".

edit: to be clear, i'm convinced that generally cops are racially biased, but this is not an example/proof of it.
On track to MA1950A.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43730 Posts
August 31 2017 18:26 GMT
#172265
I mean it's basically the same as a waitress reassuring you that you're a good tipper so she won't spit in your food, only instead of spitting it's murder and instead of your food it's black people.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-31 18:33:12
August 31 2017 18:32 GMT
#172266
Jared Kushner, Donald Trump’s son-in-law and top adviser, wakes up each morning to a growing problem that will not go away. His family’s real estate business, Kushner Cos., owes hundreds of millions of dollars on a 41-story office building on Fifth Avenue. It has failed to secure foreign investors, despite an extensive search, and its resources are more limited than generally understood. As a result, the company faces significant challenges.

Over the past two years, executives and family members have sought substantial overseas investment from previously undisclosed places: South Korea’s sovereign-wealth fund, France’s richest man, Israeli banks and insurance companies, and exploratory talks with a Saudi developer, according to former and current executives. These were in addition to previously reported attempts to raise money in China and Qatar.

...

As 2015 drew to a close, there were no serious offers, and many in the company figured the plans were all but dead. Then Donald Trump began his meteoric political rise, and Jared Kushner was right on his coattails. Discussions heated up. Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim Al Thani, the Qatari businessman who had once run that nation’s sovereign-wealth fund, had earlier declined to even take a meeting with the Kushner Cos. executives, according to people familiar with the talks. In 2016, Al Thani agreed to invest $500 million from the private fund he runs, contingent on investment from others, which failed to materialize.

...

The Kushners opened discussions with Anbang, the Chinese insurance giant with such close ties to the ruling party that the federal government has forbidden it from buying near a U.S. military base. During months of talks—before and after the election—Jared Kushner negotiated a proposal for Anbang to put billions into the building and allow the family firm to take away $400 million in cash. After details of that plan were made public in March, Anbang walked away amid a crackdown on foreign investments by Chinese regulators.

Representatives of Kushners Cos. also discussed the project with an executive working for Fawaz Alhokair, a Saudi billionaire whose company has vast holdings in shopping malls, hotels and real estate overseas. Alhokair made a splash in the U.S. when he paid $87.7 million for a Park Avenue penthouse. Alhokair’s company considered a possible investment in late 2015, according to Simon Marshall, who was CEO of Alhokair until this year.

Marshall said he analyzed the retail portion of the proposal. The building’s financial viability relied on a plan to construct five levels of luxury shopping at the base of a gleaming new tower. Marshall, who had overseen Alhokair’s retail operations around the world, said he found the projections to be more than the New York luxury-retail market would bear.

“The numbers just didn’t work,” Marshall said in a telephone interview, adding that politics played no role in the decision not to invest. The proposal remained on the table into late 2016, he said, as Trump continued on his path to the White House.

...

Federal investigators know that Kushner met with then-Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak in Trump Tower last December and later met with Sergey Gorkov, head of the Kremlin-controlled VEB bank in two meetings that he didn’t, at first, disclose publicly or on his application for his national-security clearance. After those meetings became public, Kushner and the White House said the contacts were made in his role as a Trump adviser and didn’t involve discussion of his family business. But VEB and a spokesman for Russian President Vladimir Putin described the meetings quite differently, noted Adam Schiff of California, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. They said that Kushner was there in his capacity as head of his family’s real estate business. Investigators say they are studying those accounts with keen interest.


www.bloomberg.com
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 31 2017 18:45 GMT
#172267
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 31 2017 18:46 GMT
#172268


Since we were recently going so dour on America's heroes in Houston.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
August 31 2017 18:51 GMT
#172269
Donald Trump told us that he’d hire the best people. He didn't mention that he’d be unable to fire them.

The president is experiencing a bout of insubordination from his top officials the likes of which we haven't witnessed in the modern era. It's not unusual to have powerful officials at war among themselves, or in the presidential doghouse. It's downright bizarre to have them publicly undercut the president, without fear of consequence.

...

First, it was chief economic adviser Cohn saying in an interview that the administration—i.e., Donald J. Trump—must do a better job denouncing hate groups. Then, it was Secretary of State Tillerson suggesting in a stunning interview with Chris Wallace of Fox News that the rest of the government speaks for American values, but not necessarily the president. Finally, Secretary of Defense Mattis contradicted without a moment’s hesitation a Trump tweet saying we are done talking with North Korea.

...

This isn't the work of the deep state, career bureaucrats maneuvering or leaking from somewhere deep within the agencies. This is the shallow state, the very top layer of the government, operating in broad daylight, in fact wanting to be seen and heard differentiating themselves from the president of the United States.

Trump, of course, largely brought this on himself. He is reaping the rewards of his foolish public spat with Jeff Sessions and of his woeful Charlottesville remarks.

By publicly humiliating his own attorney general, Trump seemed to want to make him quit. When Sessions stayed put, Trump didn't take the next logical step of firing him because he didn't want to deal with the fallout. In the implicit showdown, Sessions had won. Not only had Trump shown he was all bark and no bite, he had demonstrated his lack of loyalty to those working for him.


www.politico.com
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
August 31 2017 18:59 GMT
#172270
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 31 2017 19:09 GMT
#172271
Nice. Remove a policy that only protected the children of illegal immigrants that were already productive members of US society. They didn’t even break laws, since they were minors when they were brought over. Pure spite based politics.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 31 2017 19:24 GMT
#172272
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Kyadytim
Profile Joined March 2009
United States886 Posts
August 31 2017 19:37 GMT
#172273
On September 01 2017 03:51 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
Donald Trump told us that he’d hire the best people. He didn't mention that he’d be unable to fire them.

The president is experiencing a bout of insubordination from his top officials the likes of which we haven't witnessed in the modern era. It's not unusual to have powerful officials at war among themselves, or in the presidential doghouse. It's downright bizarre to have them publicly undercut the president, without fear of consequence.

...

First, it was chief economic adviser Cohn saying in an interview that the administration—i.e., Donald J. Trump—must do a better job denouncing hate groups. Then, it was Secretary of State Tillerson suggesting in a stunning interview with Chris Wallace of Fox News that the rest of the government speaks for American values, but not necessarily the president. Finally, Secretary of Defense Mattis contradicted without a moment’s hesitation a Trump tweet saying we are done talking with North Korea.

...

This isn't the work of the deep state, career bureaucrats maneuvering or leaking from somewhere deep within the agencies. This is the shallow state, the very top layer of the government, operating in broad daylight, in fact wanting to be seen and heard differentiating themselves from the president of the United States.

Trump, of course, largely brought this on himself. He is reaping the rewards of his foolish public spat with Jeff Sessions and of his woeful Charlottesville remarks.

By publicly humiliating his own attorney general, Trump seemed to want to make him quit. When Sessions stayed put, Trump didn't take the next logical step of firing him because he didn't want to deal with the fallout. In the implicit showdown, Sessions had won. Not only had Trump shown he was all bark and no bite, he had demonstrated his lack of loyalty to those working for him.


www.politico.com

I don't even know what to make of that article. It seems like the author is just fed up with everyone involved and is publicly ranting about it rather than trying to write something informative.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
August 31 2017 19:41 GMT
#172274
On September 01 2017 04:37 Kyadytim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2017 03:51 Doodsmack wrote:
Donald Trump told us that he’d hire the best people. He didn't mention that he’d be unable to fire them.

The president is experiencing a bout of insubordination from his top officials the likes of which we haven't witnessed in the modern era. It's not unusual to have powerful officials at war among themselves, or in the presidential doghouse. It's downright bizarre to have them publicly undercut the president, without fear of consequence.

...

First, it was chief economic adviser Cohn saying in an interview that the administration—i.e., Donald J. Trump—must do a better job denouncing hate groups. Then, it was Secretary of State Tillerson suggesting in a stunning interview with Chris Wallace of Fox News that the rest of the government speaks for American values, but not necessarily the president. Finally, Secretary of Defense Mattis contradicted without a moment’s hesitation a Trump tweet saying we are done talking with North Korea.

...

This isn't the work of the deep state, career bureaucrats maneuvering or leaking from somewhere deep within the agencies. This is the shallow state, the very top layer of the government, operating in broad daylight, in fact wanting to be seen and heard differentiating themselves from the president of the United States.

Trump, of course, largely brought this on himself. He is reaping the rewards of his foolish public spat with Jeff Sessions and of his woeful Charlottesville remarks.

By publicly humiliating his own attorney general, Trump seemed to want to make him quit. When Sessions stayed put, Trump didn't take the next logical step of firing him because he didn't want to deal with the fallout. In the implicit showdown, Sessions had won. Not only had Trump shown he was all bark and no bite, he had demonstrated his lack of loyalty to those working for him.


www.politico.com

I don't even know what to make of that article. It seems like the author is just fed up with everyone involved and is publicly ranting about it rather than trying to write something informative.


I think the point that Trump can't fire these people because he's out of room to fire people is a good one. That would explain why they're willing to defy him like this.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35172 Posts
August 31 2017 19:43 GMT
#172275
On September 01 2017 04:09 Plansix wrote:
Nice. Remove a policy that only protected the children of illegal immigrants that were already productive members of US society. They didn’t even break laws, since they were minors when they were brought over. Pure spite based politics.

First they came for the illegal immigrants...
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 31 2017 19:52 GMT
#172276
On September 01 2017 04:43 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2017 04:09 Plansix wrote:
Nice. Remove a policy that only protected the children of illegal immigrants that were already productive members of US society. They didn’t even break laws, since they were minors when they were brought over. Pure spite based politics.

First they came for the illegal immigrants...

And then they came for our veterans who are also citizens, but they were too stupid to admit their mistake.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
August 31 2017 20:08 GMT
#172277
It is an interesting way to reduce healthcare costs.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 31 2017 20:10 GMT
#172278
Hence the DACA move?

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 31 2017 20:14 GMT
#172279
On September 01 2017 05:10 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Hence the DACA move?

https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/903309779967377408

Fulfilling campaign promises generally have that effect.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 31 2017 20:14 GMT
#172280
I am seeing people saying Fox may have jumped the gun on that one, that DACA is still under review.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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