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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8613

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
August 31 2017 15:38 GMT
#172241
On August 31 2017 23:46 Logo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2017 22:22 Plansix wrote:

Google’s Disturbing Influence Over Think Tanks

The first thing you see when you walk into the offices of the New America Foundation in Washington is the Eric Schmidt Ideas Lab, a space named after the executive chairman of Google’s parent company. Google, Mr. Schmidt and his family’s foundation are the principal funders of that think tank.

On Wednesday, New America’s president, Anne-Marie Slaughter, issued a statement saying that Barry Lynn, a pre-eminent scholar there, had been fired for “his repeated refusal to adhere to New America’s standards of openness and institutional collegiality.”

What horrible, dangerous act had Mr. Lynn committed? He wrote a piece for New America’s website in support of the $2.7 billion fine the European Union levied against Google for antitrust violations in June. That post fit perfectly with the work of the Open Markets initiative he lead, which has been one of the strongest voices in Washington calling for more antitrust scrutiny of our economy. It’s the platform Mr. Lynn, Matt Stoller and Lina Khan have used to call for regulatory scrutiny of the tech monopolies like Google, Amazon and Facebook as these companies increasingly come to dominate our economy. But Google’s financial power at New America was apparently such that it could close the group down. Though Ms. Slaughter denies the connection between Google’s funding and her decision, the implication seems clear. A firm whose motto was “Don’t Be Evil” has no interest in being called a monopoly by a think tank it funds.

In his book “Zero to One,” the tech investor Peter Thiel writes that companies like Google lie to protect themselves. “They know that bragging about their great monopoly invites being audited, scrutinized and attacked. Since they very much want their profits to continue unmolested, they tend to do whatever they can to conceal their monopoly — usually by exaggerating the power of their (nonexistent) competition,” he explains. There’s evidence that this kind of exaggeration is carried out by numerous scholars and think tanks funded by Google. According to a 2017 Wall Street Journal investigative report, “Over the past decade, Google has helped finance hundreds of research papers to defend against regulatory challenges of its market dominance, paying $5,000 to $400,000 for the work.”

But as the nonprofit Consumer Watchdog discovered in February 2009 when it investigated Google’s handling of consumer privacy, the funding from Google comes with strings attached. As the group noted on its website, Google’s director of policy communications, Bob Boorstin, emailed the Rose Foundation (a major funder of Consumer Watchdog) complaining about Consumer Watchdog and asking the charity to consider “whether there might be better groups in which to place your trust and resources.” Mr. Boorstin later apologized for his attempts to cripple a Google critic, but there is no evidence that the use of this kind of tactic has ended.

The Wall Street Journal’s report found that since 2009, Google had directly funded 100 papers written by academics and 100 papers that came through think tanks funded by Google. These papers make their way to the congressional committees and regulatory agencies that are charged with overseeing Google’s business, like the Federal Trade Commission.

Continue reading the main story
Advertisement

Continue reading the main story
Google’s “Don’t Be Evil” suggested that the company valued transparency. But the extent of its influence is anything but transparent. Occasionally this is revealed to the public, such as when the infamous Google Shill List came out during a lawsuit brought by Oracle. Google was forced to disclose that it provided major funding to important organizations like Public Knowledge, Electronic Frontier Foundation and the Computer and Communications Industry Association.

So when these supposedly neutral organizations weigh in on issues that involve Google, you should take their advocacy with a grain of salt. In the coming months, privacy legislation put forward by Representative Marsha Blackburn, Republican of Tennessee, and modifications to the Safe Harbor provision in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act advocated by Senator Rob Portman, Republican of Ohio, will come before Congress. Google does not want either of these laws to pass, and you can be sure that papers from major think tanks will be part of the policy discussion.

Perhaps more important, the discussion that is beginning to take place on both sides of the political aisle on whether companies like Google and Amazon are too big will continue. The role of the think tanks in this debate will be important. What we don’t need are more Google shills.

Source

Google is anti-censorship, except when they do the censoring.



Interesting story, but the article seems pretty terrible. Like it's trying to smear the EFF and Public Knowledge for getting donations from Google with no actual evidence that they are not neutral. It is a pretty big claim for something like the EFF which has been around much longer than Google.

I don't see at all how an established charity that gets >50% of it's funding from individual donors should be lumped into the same group as a pressured think tank. Hell I'm using a (partial) ad blocker made by the EFF that's actively blocking cookies from google ads and messing with their functionality.

Yeah, basically. Was reading through the quote and then did a complete 180 once the author started disparaging the EFF and Public Knowledge as shill groups.

And then started propping up Marsha Blackburn, who introduced the Bill that allows telecom companies to sell your data again.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 31 2017 15:40 GMT
#172242
On September 01 2017 00:21 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Normally somebody comes along and tell me that I am wrong. Or diverts the discussion. Something like; white exceptionalism isn't a covert way to express white supremacy. White supremacy is what made the constitution and to say as such is to drive them into supporting Donald Trump.

The term is so dumb that it is really hard to place some sort of rational thought process behind it. They might as well claim exceptionalism based on hair color, because it would be equally valid.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9037 Posts
August 31 2017 15:46 GMT
#172243
On September 01 2017 00:40 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2017 00:21 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Normally somebody comes along and tell me that I am wrong. Or diverts the discussion. Something like; white exceptionalism isn't a covert way to express white supremacy. White supremacy is what made the constitution and to say as such is to drive them into supporting Donald Trump.

The term is so dumb that it is really hard to place some sort of rational thought process behind it. They might as well claim exceptionalism based on hair color, because it would be equally valid.

Like, say for instance...blonde hair?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 31 2017 15:49 GMT
#172244
On September 01 2017 00:46 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2017 00:40 Plansix wrote:
On September 01 2017 00:21 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Normally somebody comes along and tell me that I am wrong. Or diverts the discussion. Something like; white exceptionalism isn't a covert way to express white supremacy. White supremacy is what made the constitution and to say as such is to drive them into supporting Donald Trump.

The term is so dumb that it is really hard to place some sort of rational thought process behind it. They might as well claim exceptionalism based on hair color, because it would be equally valid.

Like, say for instance...blonde hair?

And blue eyes. Except when you don’t have enough people who meet those standards, then let it slide.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-31 15:52:15
August 31 2017 15:51 GMT
#172245
On September 01 2017 00:19 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
Special counsel Robert Mueller’s team is working with New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman on its investigation into Paul Manafort and his financial transactions, according to several people familiar with the matter.

The cooperation is the latest indication that the federal probe into President Donald Trump’s former campaign chairman is intensifying. It also could potentially provide Mueller with additional leverage to get Manafort to cooperate in the larger investigation into Trump’s campaign, as Trump does not have pardon power over state crimes.

The two teams have shared evidence and talked frequently in recent weeks about a potential case, these people said. One of the people familiar with progress on the case said both Mueller’s and Schneiderman’s teams have collected evidence on financial crimes, including potential money laundering.

...

People close to Manafort say the team has pressured him by approaching family members and former business partners. A number of other firms and people who have worked with him have received subpoenas.

Federal agents also conducted an early-morning raid at Manafort’s home in late July, seizing documents and other items.

...

The New York prosecutor’s office also is looking into some of Trump’s business transactions and could potentially share those records with Mueller’s team, one of these people said. Those inquiries are in the preliminary stage.


www.politico.com

You can imagine how furious Trump is right now
+ Show Spoiler +









Very presidential. Most dignified. And the humblest by far, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

You know, this would be funny, if it weren't so shocking. This would start a shitstorm of major proportions in any other western country, bipartisan. We know he's a moron of epic proportions, but personally, republican politicians are just as bad. The very few "well, the president has his own opinion" and "let the DoD review that order because we'll see" is just not sufficient.

At some point, politicians have to find at least a shred of integrity/dignity. Because clearly, your president has none of that. Zero.

edit, spoilered tweets
On track to MA1950A.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
August 31 2017 15:53 GMT
#172246
Just a note that those tweets are from 2014.

Doesn't make them better, but worth pointing out if anyone is confused that he's responding to current events.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
August 31 2017 15:55 GMT
#172247
On September 01 2017 00:53 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Just a note that those tweets are from 2014.

Doesn't make them better, but worth pointing out if anyone is confused that he's responding to current events.


Oh oops, didn't actually see, so thanks for pointing that out.

That being said, it's not like anything changed. He still to this day "does this kind of tweeting", or "tweets like that" or whatever.
On track to MA1950A.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
August 31 2017 16:21 GMT
#172248
On September 01 2017 00:55 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2017 00:53 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Just a note that those tweets are from 2014.

Doesn't make them better, but worth pointing out if anyone is confused that he's responding to current events.


Oh oops, didn't actually see, so thanks for pointing that out.

That being said, it's not like anything changed. He still to this day "does this kind of tweeting", or "tweets like that" or whatever.

Yeah, as I said, doesn't make the tweets any better. Like, "oh, he only accused the AG of being a crackhead before he was being investigated".
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
August 31 2017 16:54 GMT
#172249
On September 01 2017 01:21 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2017 00:55 m4ini wrote:
On September 01 2017 00:53 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Just a note that those tweets are from 2014.

Doesn't make them better, but worth pointing out if anyone is confused that he's responding to current events.


Oh oops, didn't actually see, so thanks for pointing that out.

That being said, it's not like anything changed. He still to this day "does this kind of tweeting", or "tweets like that" or whatever.

Yeah, as I said, doesn't make the tweets any better. Like, "oh, he only accused the AG of being a crackhead before he was being investigated".


Actually he was being investigated by Schneiderman back then too, hence the tweets.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
August 31 2017 17:04 GMT
#172250
On September 01 2017 01:54 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2017 01:21 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On September 01 2017 00:55 m4ini wrote:
On September 01 2017 00:53 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Just a note that those tweets are from 2014.

Doesn't make them better, but worth pointing out if anyone is confused that he's responding to current events.


Oh oops, didn't actually see, so thanks for pointing that out.

That being said, it's not like anything changed. He still to this day "does this kind of tweeting", or "tweets like that" or whatever.

Yeah, as I said, doesn't make the tweets any better. Like, "oh, he only accused the AG of being a crackhead before he was being investigated".


Actually he was being investigated by Schneiderman back then too, hence the tweets.

Oh. Well then.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-31 17:15:09
August 31 2017 17:14 GMT
#172251
The Kremlin on Wednesday confirmed it received an email from President Trump’s personal lawyer reached out to them during the 2016 presidential campaign, seeking help for a business project in Russia.

In a statement to the House Intelligence Committee investigating Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election and possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, Trump’s personal lawyer Michael Cohen said Monday the president’s company pursued a project in Moscow during the Republican primary. He said the plan was abandoned for various reasons.

President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, told reporters in Moscow on Wednesday that they received Cohen’s email, which was sent to the press office’s general email address. Peskov said it was one of many emails the Kremlin press office gets — since its email address is available online — and that the Kremlin did not reply to it.

...

Cohen also disclosed that Trump was personally aware of the deal, signing a letter of intent and discussing it with Cohen on two other occasions.


www.washingtonpost.com

#butheremails
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15742 Posts
August 31 2017 17:17 GMT
#172252
On September 01 2017 02:14 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
The Kremlin on Wednesday confirmed it received an email from President Trump’s personal lawyer reached out to them during the 2016 presidential campaign, seeking help for a business project in Russia.

In a statement to the House Intelligence Committee investigating Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election and possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, Trump’s personal lawyer Michael Cohen said Monday the president’s company pursued a project in Moscow during the Republican primary. He said the plan was abandoned for various reasons.

President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, told reporters in Moscow on Wednesday that they received Cohen’s email, which was sent to the press office’s general email address. Peskov said it was one of many emails the Kremlin press office gets — since its email address is available online — and that the Kremlin did not reply to it.

...

Cohen also disclosed that Trump was personally aware of the deal, signing a letter of intent and discussing it with Cohen on two other occasions.


www.washingtonpost.com

#butheremails

I wonder if this is when the Kremlin was like "rofl, this dude is just blatantly sketchy during a presidential run. Apparently we can use this guy a lot more than we realized. Nice."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 31 2017 17:18 GMT
#172253
I have a hard time dealing with the idea that straight up lying about business deals with Russia during the election isn't fraud. But lying about that in almost any other context would be on the bleeding edge of illegal. It is hard to reconcile.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43720 Posts
August 31 2017 17:21 GMT
#172254
Apparently the system wasn't built to deal with a situation where the President defrauded the electorate and Congress was fine with it.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Piledriver
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1697 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-31 17:31:49
August 31 2017 17:30 GMT
#172255
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/greg-abbott-cobb-county-police-officer-seen-on-video-telling-motorist-we-only-shoot-black-people/


Dash-cam video from July 2016 shows a white female driver telling Cobb County police Lt. Greg Abbott she was scared to move her hands in order to get her cellphone, multiple news outlets reported. Abbott, who also is white, interrupts her and says, "But you're not black. Remember, we only shoot black people."


Being a brown person myself, its somewhat scary for me since I used to live in Cobb County a couple of years ago, and still drive through there occasionally. I get that it was somewhat in jest, but you have to figure that deep down inside, he knows its true in some level and thats why he instinctively makes the joke.
Envy fan since NTH.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15742 Posts
August 31 2017 17:33 GMT
#172256
On September 01 2017 02:21 KwarK wrote:
Apparently the system wasn't built to deal with a situation where the President defrauded the electorate and Congress was fine with it.


Oddly similar to what we had to do with the financial industry after they were ethically reckless in ways we didn't expect would ever happen. I imagine a lot of unspoken rules are going to be written down after this presidency.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43720 Posts
August 31 2017 17:36 GMT
#172257
Almost certainly just a joke. Probably don't make jokes about how the police only shoot black people if you're a police officer dealing with a member of the public.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-31 17:39:26
August 31 2017 17:37 GMT
#172258
On September 01 2017 00:38 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2017 23:46 Logo wrote:
On August 31 2017 22:22 Plansix wrote:

Google’s Disturbing Influence Over Think Tanks

The first thing you see when you walk into the offices of the New America Foundation in Washington is the Eric Schmidt Ideas Lab, a space named after the executive chairman of Google’s parent company. Google, Mr. Schmidt and his family’s foundation are the principal funders of that think tank.

On Wednesday, New America’s president, Anne-Marie Slaughter, issued a statement saying that Barry Lynn, a pre-eminent scholar there, had been fired for “his repeated refusal to adhere to New America’s standards of openness and institutional collegiality.”

What horrible, dangerous act had Mr. Lynn committed? He wrote a piece for New America’s website in support of the $2.7 billion fine the European Union levied against Google for antitrust violations in June. That post fit perfectly with the work of the Open Markets initiative he lead, which has been one of the strongest voices in Washington calling for more antitrust scrutiny of our economy. It’s the platform Mr. Lynn, Matt Stoller and Lina Khan have used to call for regulatory scrutiny of the tech monopolies like Google, Amazon and Facebook as these companies increasingly come to dominate our economy. But Google’s financial power at New America was apparently such that it could close the group down. Though Ms. Slaughter denies the connection between Google’s funding and her decision, the implication seems clear. A firm whose motto was “Don’t Be Evil” has no interest in being called a monopoly by a think tank it funds.

In his book “Zero to One,” the tech investor Peter Thiel writes that companies like Google lie to protect themselves. “They know that bragging about their great monopoly invites being audited, scrutinized and attacked. Since they very much want their profits to continue unmolested, they tend to do whatever they can to conceal their monopoly — usually by exaggerating the power of their (nonexistent) competition,” he explains. There’s evidence that this kind of exaggeration is carried out by numerous scholars and think tanks funded by Google. According to a 2017 Wall Street Journal investigative report, “Over the past decade, Google has helped finance hundreds of research papers to defend against regulatory challenges of its market dominance, paying $5,000 to $400,000 for the work.”

But as the nonprofit Consumer Watchdog discovered in February 2009 when it investigated Google’s handling of consumer privacy, the funding from Google comes with strings attached. As the group noted on its website, Google’s director of policy communications, Bob Boorstin, emailed the Rose Foundation (a major funder of Consumer Watchdog) complaining about Consumer Watchdog and asking the charity to consider “whether there might be better groups in which to place your trust and resources.” Mr. Boorstin later apologized for his attempts to cripple a Google critic, but there is no evidence that the use of this kind of tactic has ended.

The Wall Street Journal’s report found that since 2009, Google had directly funded 100 papers written by academics and 100 papers that came through think tanks funded by Google. These papers make their way to the congressional committees and regulatory agencies that are charged with overseeing Google’s business, like the Federal Trade Commission.

Continue reading the main story
Advertisement

Continue reading the main story
Google’s “Don’t Be Evil” suggested that the company valued transparency. But the extent of its influence is anything but transparent. Occasionally this is revealed to the public, such as when the infamous Google Shill List came out during a lawsuit brought by Oracle. Google was forced to disclose that it provided major funding to important organizations like Public Knowledge, Electronic Frontier Foundation and the Computer and Communications Industry Association.

So when these supposedly neutral organizations weigh in on issues that involve Google, you should take their advocacy with a grain of salt. In the coming months, privacy legislation put forward by Representative Marsha Blackburn, Republican of Tennessee, and modifications to the Safe Harbor provision in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act advocated by Senator Rob Portman, Republican of Ohio, will come before Congress. Google does not want either of these laws to pass, and you can be sure that papers from major think tanks will be part of the policy discussion.

Perhaps more important, the discussion that is beginning to take place on both sides of the political aisle on whether companies like Google and Amazon are too big will continue. The role of the think tanks in this debate will be important. What we don’t need are more Google shills.

Source

Google is anti-censorship, except when they do the censoring.



Interesting story, but the article seems pretty terrible. Like it's trying to smear the EFF and Public Knowledge for getting donations from Google with no actual evidence that they are not neutral. It is a pretty big claim for something like the EFF which has been around much longer than Google.

I don't see at all how an established charity that gets >50% of it's funding from individual donors should be lumped into the same group as a pressured think tank. Hell I'm using a (partial) ad blocker made by the EFF that's actively blocking cookies from google ads and messing with their functionality.

Yeah, basically. Was reading through the quote and then did a complete 180 once the author started disparaging the EFF and Public Knowledge as shill groups.

And then started propping up Marsha Blackburn, who introduced the Bill that allows telecom companies to sell your data again.


There are multiple factions in internet/software/privacy issues, so it makes it difficult to disentangle why google might contribute to groups like the EFF which are actively harming some aspects of its business, while helping others. Google, as a huge monopoly, has lots of disparate interests whose importance to the bottom line fluctuates.

They donate to "anti-patent" technology think tanks because they would rather just rip off small scale "app" or "tech" innovators now that they can leverage their market dominance and horde of capital. But some of those anti-patent organizations are also pro-privacy and for free software. They contribute to other organizations who are anti-net neutrality because they don't want to cede any power to the ISP scumbags, but some of those net neutrality organizations are anti-advertising/targeted search/SEO bullshit. So they basically just give money to everyone because then they at least have some influence over those doing all the major policy work, with the most money going towards those organizations that help them in their core business interests even if they don't totally align.

In any case, you should be disturbed by the article stealthblue posted.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 31 2017 17:40 GMT
#172259
On September 01 2017 02:30 Piledriver wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/greg-abbott-cobb-county-police-officer-seen-on-video-telling-motorist-we-only-shoot-black-people/

Show nested quote +

Dash-cam video from July 2016 shows a white female driver telling Cobb County police Lt. Greg Abbott she was scared to move her hands in order to get her cellphone, multiple news outlets reported. Abbott, who also is white, interrupts her and says, "But you're not black. Remember, we only shoot black people."


Being a brown person myself, its somewhat scary for me since I used to live in Cobb County a couple of years ago, and still drive through there occasionally. I get that it was somewhat in jest, but you have to figure that deep down inside, he knows its true in some level and thats why he instinctively makes the joke.

Yeah, that is an amazingly stupid thing to say in this political climate.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Kyadytim
Profile Joined March 2009
United States886 Posts
August 31 2017 17:40 GMT
#172260
On August 31 2017 15:51 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2017 15:46 Kyadytim wrote:
Good point. I guess it kind of surprised me because Shkreli might be the most hated person in the US at the moment. I wonder if there's any way to leverage this into a wedge between Trump's internet fanbase and Trump's offline base, which is older and rural and I'd imagine therefor has a substantially different opinion of Shkreli. Maybe if TD managed to make a pardon for Shkreli an issue that Trump tweeted that he was considering or something.


Hated by who? Anti-pharma is largely a left perspective. People who feel unjustly weakened and underappreciated are very likely to support someone like Shkreli because Shkreli looks like these guys while having a ton of money. He is what they were *supposed* to be, had it not been for things like affirmative action. He is obnoxious, outspoken, and doesn't hesitate to throw out a middle finger. For people in their early 20s who struggle with confidence, he is somewhat of a beacon of "Yeah, see? This is what I WOULD be, had it not been for..."

One of the things Trump campaigned on was lowering drug prices. Connected to that, I'd imagine that the older part of Trump's core support would be more likely to know people who were hit hard by some of Shkreli's price hikes.
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