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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
September 01 2017 00:33 GMT
#172301
On September 01 2017 08:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Heads up...


This is part of why I never thought about living in florida, it has always been a roll of the dice every year as to whether a big hurricane hits. (Disclaimer : my father lives in Florida)
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 01 2017 01:25 GMT
#172302
Most storms don't become category 5's, so it is kinda odd that that guy is saying that he'd be surprised if Irma doesn't become one.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 01 2017 01:33 GMT
#172303
Because it's already a Cat 3.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
September 01 2017 01:45 GMT
#172304
And it formed in an area where many storms have enough time to get to a cat 5
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 01 2017 02:12 GMT
#172305
Having time and space to develop isn't really dispositive. The atmospheric conditions have to be just right to allow a storm to strengthen to a category 5 and maintain that strength. Most storms that form where Irma is never reach category 5.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35172 Posts
September 01 2017 02:26 GMT
#172306
On September 01 2017 11:12 xDaunt wrote:
Having time and space to develop isn't really dispositive. The atmospheric conditions have to be just right to allow a storm to strengthen to a category 5 and maintain that strength. Most storms that form where Irma is never reach category 5.

Read the thread.
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-01 02:28:28
September 01 2017 02:28 GMT
#172307
xDaunt I normally agree with you but as a committed Ryan Maue follower on twitter for the better part of 3 years I must say you don't know who you are questioning here haha.

Really hope the tracks that keep it out to sea end up playing out.
Kyadytim
Profile Joined March 2009
United States886 Posts
September 01 2017 03:04 GMT
#172308
http://www.thedailybeast.com/exclusive-mueller-enlists-the-irs-for-his-trump-russia-investigation

The URL serves as an adequate summary of the article.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 01 2017 04:29 GMT
#172309
Houston’s catastrophic flood will be framed by leaders in Texas as an unforeseeable act of God. It isn’t. Houston’s unfettered sprawl into the marshland of southeast Texas was a conscious choice by policymakers. So was building a global city on a slowly submerging swamp. Both were decisions that led to disaster.

Houston has quietly become our fourth largest and fastest-growing city, due in large part to cheap housing. But the latter has come at an exorbitant cost to its safety. The swamps and wetlands that once characterized Houston’s hinterland have been replaced with strip malls and suburban tract homes.

Those landscapes once served as a natural flood protection system for the city. Research shows that, if they hadn’t been filled and developed, Harvey’s impact would have been lessened. Sam Brody and his colleagues at Texas A&M University in Galveston have been predicting an event like this for nearly a decade. That their work went unheeded by Texas policymakers should not be forgotten.

Worse, a generation of civic leaders have completely deregulated Houston’s land development market. In that process, they helped build a far-flung network of poor neighborhoods on top of a swamp. In Houston, there is a simple truth: the poorer you are, the closer you live to a petrochemical plant and the likelier your home is to flood.

There will be an impulse to elide past the political choices that led us to this point. We shouldn’t allow our politicians to use the use Harvey’s victims as human shields by pronouncing that now is not the time for criticism or blame. There’s never been a more important time to understand the political machinations that led to Harvey’s destructiveness, and to do everything in our power to dismantle them.

Much has been made about Ted Cruz’s vote against Sandy relief funding in 2013. His hypocrisy is fair game for political journalists. But the greater failure of Cruz and John Cornyn is in not seeking funding for a solution to the world’s most predictable disaster before Harvey made landfall.

Much more should be made of Texas Land Commissioner, George P Bush’s failings. As head of the General Land Office, Bush holds a unique and singular power to plan, engineer, and manage the Texas coastline.

But nearly a decade after Hurricane Ike – which hit the city eight years ago – and nearly three years since his election, there’s scant evidence that Bush has done anything to secure Texas’s coastal cities against the threat posed by climate change.

In fact, he’s yet to fully spend the more than $3bn allocated to the General Land Office after Ike. Given that Bush is likely to lead the Harvey recovery, it’s fair for us to question whether or not he’s up to the task.

The question that he and every Houstonian must ponder now is how their recovery can be better than those that followed Ike and Katrina.

Erecting a massive barrier system akin to the $14.5bn behemoth rimming New Orleans won’t be enough. But it will be the impulse of every politician eager to project an image of strength and resilience in Harvey’s aftermath – and to expand their political brand by becoming known as Houston’s savior.

Built in 2014 and already suffering a potentially catastrophic pump failure, the New Orleans surge barrier is emblematic of the greater infrastructural challenge facing coastal cities in the US.

Coastal infrastructure is incredibly expensive to build and nearly impossible to maintain, especially when you realize that the maintenance is borne entirely by local governments – none of which have the financial or technical capacity to do so effectively.

Some have already begun to point to Holland, where the world’s most complex flood control system operates, and to proclaim that if the Dutch do it, so can the United States. This simply isn’t true.

The Netherlands has a much higher tax rate, giving it more resources per person to invest in its infrastructure. Dutch storms are also less intense and bring lower surge heights and less rainfall than their American counterparts.

For a lasting recovery, Houston will need to supplement whatever barrier system it builds with a broader, regional network of wetlands, retention ponds, and green infrastructure to restore the once-robust, natural flood protection lost to a half-century of urban sprawl.

Designers have been calling for such an approach since Ike made landfall. Houston should look to New York’s landscape architect-led recovery process as a model worthy of consideration.

A half-century of bad design choices and impotent planning led Houston to this crisis. Now, it’s up to a new generation of Houstonians to do what their predecessors could not – prepare the Magnolia City to rise up and meet its wetter future head on.

Houston deserves the full, fair recovery that never came after Ike. They may not get another chance.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-01 08:51:47
September 01 2017 08:40 GMT
#172310
Why are people in the US destroying statues of Columbus?? I do not like the direction things are going - it is part of history. People simply cannot destroy what they don't like because it is associated with 'violence' (which was the standard of the time). If we go by that same logic, monumental history will not exist anymore: I would like to ask those people what do they think of the Colosseum - should it be destroyed because it hosted ferocious battles where thousands of men and animals died?
Dating thread on TL LUL
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
September 01 2017 08:56 GMT
#172311
On September 01 2017 17:40 SoSexy wrote:
Why are people in the US destroying statues of Columbus?? I do not like the direction things are going - it is part of history. People simply cannot destroy what they don't like because it is associated with 'violence' (which was the standard of the time). If we go by that same logic, monumental history will not exist anymore: I would like to ask those people what do they think of the Colosseum - should it be destroyed because it hosted ferocious battles where thousands of men and animals died?


Not that I necessarily agree with vandalism but he was a pretty horrible human being even considering the time and frankly people are probably peeved to learn about what he really was compared to the propaganda they likely swallowed as fact from history classes in early schooling and think its a travesty that he gets monuments and whole days of celebration dedicated to him.
Never Knows Best.
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-01 09:08:49
September 01 2017 09:07 GMT
#172312
On September 01 2017 17:40 SoSexy wrote:
Why are people in the US destroying statues of Columbus?? I do not like the direction things are going - it is part of history. People simply cannot destroy what they don't like because it is associated with 'violence' (which was the standard of the time). If we go by that same logic, monumental history will not exist anymore: I would like to ask those people what do they think of the Colosseum - should it be destroyed because it hosted ferocious battles where thousands of men and animals died?

I would make the argument that it's possible to learn far more about ancient Roman history (particularly architecture) by examining the Colosseum than one learns about Columbus by looking at some statue that got made of him. Furthermore, the purpose of leaving the Colosseum standing today is not to glorify and legitimise the things that were done in ancient Roman history. As such, your parallel is not particularly valid.

(EDIT: I'm not claiming that the entire purpose of statues of Columbus is to glorify and legitimise him, but there is a considerably larger element of that than there is with the Colosseum.)

I don't think that vandalising monuments is a good thing to do, and there is presumably some artistic and historical value to these statues of Columbus, but I don't see a particularly good case why there should be a lot of them around either.
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12450 Posts
September 01 2017 09:17 GMT
#172313
If your starting point is comparing a statue of Columbus and the Colosseum I'm already suspicious.
No will to live, no wish to die
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-01 09:44:03
September 01 2017 09:36 GMT
#172314
You can make any analogy you want, I just wrote the first one that came to my mind. Do you prefer the statue of Caesar? + Show Spoiler +
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Roma-Statua_di_cesare.jpg


Or the statue of Alexander the Great in Skopje? Both leaders killed hundred of thousands of people. Should we erase their memory? No. You can't look at Columbus and say 'he used violent methods'. He used that methods that were used by everyone in his time. It's the same debate with the Inquisition - they weren't peculiar sadists, they were using the tools that were common in all law courts in Europe. We can't do history with our modern lenses.
Dating thread on TL LUL
PM_ME_NICE_PUPPERS
Profile Joined September 2017
Pakistan51 Posts
September 01 2017 09:41 GMT
#172315
On September 01 2017 18:17 Nebuchad wrote:
If your starting point is comparing a statue of Columbus and the Colosseum I'm already suspicious.


That just goes to show how short-sighted you are.

When Trump defended the neo-nazi ralley, he made one good point: today it's Robert E. Lee, tomorrow it's Jefferson / Washington. Of course he was ridiculed for that, except that the same commentators who ridiculed him for it then turned around immediately and said Washington and Jefferson should be next. They're slave owners after all. Now Columbus, after all he was awful. The Colosseum is kind of a logical next step, isn't it? I mean, slaves fought there.

The same is happening in Germany, the names of streets named after 19th century scientists are being changed because their views on gender issues weren't the same as are permitted under right-think in 2016 / 2017.

Lefties think that we must destroy history lest we learn from it. Because if we acknowledge that WASPMs aren't just responsible for most bad stuff in history but also most good stuff in history, Shaniquankwa might feel left out.
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12450 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-01 09:46:23
September 01 2017 09:45 GMT
#172316
On September 01 2017 18:41 PM_ME_NICE_PUPPERS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2017 18:17 Nebuchad wrote:
If your starting point is comparing a statue of Columbus and the Colosseum I'm already suspicious.


That just goes to show how short-sighted you are.

When Trump defended the neo-nazi ralley, he made one good point: today it's Robert E. Lee, tomorrow it's Jefferson / Washington. Of course he was ridiculed for that, except that the same commentators who ridiculed him for it then turned around immediately and said Washington and Jefferson should be next. They're slave owners after all. Now Columbus, after all he was awful. The Colosseum is kind of a logical next step, isn't it? I mean, slaves fought there.

The same is happening in Germany, the names of streets named after 19th century scientists are being changed because their views on gender issues weren't the same as are permitted under right-think in 2016 / 2017.

Lefties think that we must destroy history lest we learn from it. Because if we acknowledge that WASPMs aren't just responsible for most bad stuff in history but also most good stuff in history, Shaniquankwa might feel left out.


No, it isn't a logical next step. Like, not even close.

As a leftie I'd rather you don't tell me what I think, please. Especially not in this extremely dishonest fashion.
No will to live, no wish to die
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-01 09:49:40
September 01 2017 09:47 GMT
#172317
On September 01 2017 18:36 SoSexy wrote:
You can make any analogy you want, I just wrote the first one that came to my mind. Do you prefer the statue of Caesar? + Show Spoiler +
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Roma-Statua_di_cesare.jpg


Or the statue of Alexander the Great in Skopje? Both leaders killed hundred of thousands of people. Should we erase their memory? No. You can't look at Columbus and say 'he used violent methods'. He used that methods that were used by everyone in his time. It's the same debate with the Inquisition - they weren't peculiar sadists, they were using the tools that were common in all law courts in Europe. We can't do history with our modern lenses.

Nobody is saying that the memory of Columbus should be erased. It's entirely possible to remember him without a bunch of statues glorifying him.

edit: to be clear, if there were a large number of statues around glorifying the wars conducted by Caesar or Alexander or who have you, and those wars were being actively glorified today, and those statues did not independently have historical and artistic value, then maybe we would be talking about those as well. Since that is not the case, no, I'm not particularly interested in the removal of those statues.

On September 01 2017 18:41 PM_ME_NICE_PUPPERS wrote:...
Lefties think that we must destroy history lest we learn from it. Because if we acknowledge that WASPMs aren't just responsible for most bad stuff in history but also most good stuff in history, Shaniquankwa might feel left out.

This keeps being said and it keeps being not true. There is a fundamental difference between "stop glorifying history" and "stop remembering history".

Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium5121 Posts
September 01 2017 09:52 GMT
#172318
It's a matter of how you look at the symbolism that envelops the statue I guess.
People can look at Columbus and see invasion, extermination, deforestation, colonialism, enslavement, but also the discovery of unexplored territory (from Western perspective), the pretty insane journey at the time (crossing the Atlantic) and its initiation of starting an apex society.
Maybe people look at one side, maybe people look at pro/cons and feel like one outweighs the other. I like the idea that the statue represents both sides of history, which could be displayed and shouldn't be shied from just because people can't handle how certain people were.
It's a sensitivity that ends up in censoring. Is Lolita going to be banned again soon, because people can't handle its controversial theme?
But then again, why have statues at all, right guys?
Taxes are for Terrans
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12450 Posts
September 01 2017 09:55 GMT
#172319
On September 01 2017 18:52 Uldridge wrote:
It's a sensitivity that ends up in censoring. Is Lolita going to be banned again soon, because people can't handle its controversial theme?


I swear, I don't even have a particular interest in what statues exist or don't, but all of those slippery slopes arguments are comically unconvincing...
No will to live, no wish to die
PM_ME_NICE_PUPPERS
Profile Joined September 2017
Pakistan51 Posts
September 01 2017 10:00 GMT
#172320
On September 01 2017 18:55 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2017 18:52 Uldridge wrote:
It's a sensitivity that ends up in censoring. Is Lolita going to be banned again soon, because people can't handle its controversial theme?


I swear, I don't even have a particular interest in what statues exist or don't, but all of those slippery slopes arguments are comically unconvincing...


So comically unconvincing that they are proven true just days after they are made? It didn't take two days for people to go from "comparing Washington to Lee was ridiculous" to "actually, yeah, let's tear down Washington as well".
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