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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18832 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-17 19:29:40
August 17 2017 19:28 GMT
#169321
Maybe he's referencing Pershing because he believes that outdated, unnecessary frontal maneuvers and tactics that cost thousands of lives are called for when dealing with Islamic terrorism.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 17 2017 19:29 GMT
#169322
On August 18 2017 04:25 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Wait, when I looked up Pershing it says one of his first actions during the war in question was establishing diplomatic relations with one of the Moro (Muslim) tribes and he consistently counseled against treating all of the Moros in the area as one faction. Basically the opposite of "radical Islamic terrorism."

Is Trump talking about what Wikipedia calls an unsubstantiated urban legend about burying rebels with pigs or what here (apparently Pershing says someone else did it in an unpublished autobiography). Did I miss something in the Wiki? Surely he's not responding to a terror attack by talking about burying the dead with pigs? If he is, man what an idiot.

He continues to push that myth, yes. That other stuff about talking to Muslims isn’t as cool as pig blood bullets.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42967 Posts
August 17 2017 19:31 GMT
#169323
On August 18 2017 04:25 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Wait, when I looked up Pershing it says one of his first actions during the war in question was establishing diplomatic relations with one of the Moro (Muslim) tribes and he consistently counseled against treating all of the Moros in the area as one faction. Basically the opposite of "radical Islamic terrorism."

Is Trump talking about what Wikipedia calls an unsubstantiated urban legend about burying rebels with pigs or what here (apparently Pershing says someone else did it in an unpublished autobiography). Did I miss something in the Wiki? Surely he's not responding to a terror attack by talking about burying the dead with pigs? If he is, man what an idiot.

Again, this shit is really, really popular with his Charlottesville base. They've got this whole mythology around how pigs are basically Muslim kryptonite and if you hang up a ham outside your gun store in Hicksville Kentucky then ISIS will pass you by in their invasion. I could put together a selection of quality memes to that effect if you want to see examples of this. Or you can watch the responses to Trump's tweet, I'm sure we're about to get a greatest hits of "pigs are Muslim kryptonite".
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
August 17 2017 19:34 GMT
#169324
theres plenty of ways to do easy stuff about racial inequality that's easy. Stop racially gerrymandering districts (Texas just got busted for this.) If your state has ways for felons to be reinstated to vote actually reinstate their rights when they apply (Don't be Florida). Also stop letting white richer school districts secede from poorer African American school districts and make sure the poorer urban schools actually have adequate resources.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
August 17 2017 19:36 GMT
#169325






"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-17 19:37:52
August 17 2017 19:37 GMT
#169326
Ugh. I was going to say that I find it extra weird that he doesn't even get the legend right, because it has absolutely nothing to do with captives and instead refers to what was done with dead Moros, but Trump is just too dimwitted to keep track of things like that. He can't even stay competent about the lies he spreads.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
August 17 2017 19:37 GMT
#169327
Internet memetic infographics are among the most misleading crap I have ever seen. The Pershing pig blood meme is certainly one example. Pseudoscience also has a hell of a home within those meme-graphics, such as with that whole Liquid Fluorine Thorium Reactor hoopla that has thankfully died down. Problem is that idiots on the internet can say whatever the fuck they want, fact and especially nuance be damned, and who the fuck actually wants to dig down to understand the facts?
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 17 2017 19:41 GMT
#169328
On August 18 2017 04:37 LegalLord wrote:
Internet memetic infographics are among the most misleading crap I have ever seen. The Pershing pig blood meme is certainly one example. Pseudoscience also has a hell of a home within those meme-graphics, such as with that whole Liquid Fluorine Thorium Reactor hoopla that has thankfully died down. Problem is that idiots on the internet can say whatever the fuck they want, fact and especially nuance be damned, and who the fuck actually wants to dig down to understand the facts?

Put them side by side with any anti-vaxer propaganda or Anti-women’s suffrage poster from the past. The resemblance is striking.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-17 19:43:14
August 17 2017 19:42 GMT
#169329
On August 18 2017 04:41 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2017 04:37 LegalLord wrote:
Internet memetic infographics are among the most misleading crap I have ever seen. The Pershing pig blood meme is certainly one example. Pseudoscience also has a hell of a home within those meme-graphics, such as with that whole Liquid Fluorine Thorium Reactor hoopla that has thankfully died down. Problem is that idiots on the internet can say whatever the fuck they want, fact and especially nuance be damned, and who the fuck actually wants to dig down to understand the facts?

Put them side by side with any anti-vaxer propaganda or Anti-women’s suffrage poster from the past. The resemblance is striking.

I see it as something of an evolution in misinformation more than anything else. Basically something like this:
+ Show Spoiler +
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 17 2017 19:50 GMT
#169330
On August 18 2017 04:37 LegalLord wrote:
Internet memetic infographics are among the most misleading crap I have ever seen. The Pershing pig blood meme is certainly one example. Pseudoscience also has a hell of a home within those meme-graphics, such as with that whole Liquid Fluorine Thorium Reactor hoopla that has thankfully died down. Problem is that idiots on the internet can say whatever the fuck they want, fact and especially nuance be damned, and who the fuck actually wants to dig down to understand the facts?

I must've missed the hoopla on that MSR. All I heard were two lectures from doctorates in chemistry and research looked promising, particularly when compared to 60s tech reactors.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 17 2017 19:50 GMT
#169331
On August 18 2017 04:42 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2017 04:41 Plansix wrote:
On August 18 2017 04:37 LegalLord wrote:
Internet memetic infographics are among the most misleading crap I have ever seen. The Pershing pig blood meme is certainly one example. Pseudoscience also has a hell of a home within those meme-graphics, such as with that whole Liquid Fluorine Thorium Reactor hoopla that has thankfully died down. Problem is that idiots on the internet can say whatever the fuck they want, fact and especially nuance be damned, and who the fuck actually wants to dig down to understand the facts?

Put them side by side with any anti-vaxer propaganda or Anti-women’s suffrage poster from the past. The resemblance is striking.

I see it as something of an evolution in misinformation more than anything else. Basically something like this:
+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obq3S2QIiDc

The part I find so striking is that they use almost the exact same arguments from 100 years ago. Arguments against women’s suffrage and arguments against feminism are often point for point.

Find some pamphlets from the Hat Pin Panic if you can. It some amazing reading.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/hatpin-peril-terrorized-men-who-couldnt-handle-20th-century-woman-180951219/
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42967 Posts
August 17 2017 19:56 GMT
#169332
On August 18 2017 04:50 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2017 04:37 LegalLord wrote:
Internet memetic infographics are among the most misleading crap I have ever seen. The Pershing pig blood meme is certainly one example. Pseudoscience also has a hell of a home within those meme-graphics, such as with that whole Liquid Fluorine Thorium Reactor hoopla that has thankfully died down. Problem is that idiots on the internet can say whatever the fuck they want, fact and especially nuance be damned, and who the fuck actually wants to dig down to understand the facts?

I must've missed the hoopla on that MSR. All I heard were two lectures from doctorates in chemistry and research looked promising, particularly when compared to 60s tech reactors.

My understanding was that all reactors built nowadays would be extremely promising when compared to the 60s tech ones and that most of the problems that the thorium reactors are meant to solve are not problems that are present in the modern designs anyway. That basically the experts build them the way they do for a reason and that a five minute youtube video doesn't give sufficient expertise to insist that the experts are wrong.
(note my understanding is from ignorance, I saw the thorium arguments, I saw them dismissed, I'm not qualified to judge either the merits of the original argument or the dismissal, I'm simply echoing my recollection of why I recall it being dismissed)
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
August 17 2017 20:00 GMT
#169333
On August 18 2017 04:50 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2017 04:37 LegalLord wrote:
Internet memetic infographics are among the most misleading crap I have ever seen. The Pershing pig blood meme is certainly one example. Pseudoscience also has a hell of a home within those meme-graphics, such as with that whole Liquid Fluorine Thorium Reactor hoopla that has thankfully died down. Problem is that idiots on the internet can say whatever the fuck they want, fact and especially nuance be damned, and who the fuck actually wants to dig down to understand the facts?

I must've missed the hoopla on that MSR. All I heard were two lectures from doctorates in chemistry and research looked promising, particularly when compared to 60s tech reactors.

Actual exploration of the viability of LFTRs.

Famous infographic blaming corporate evil for thorium's lack of prominence and not drawing attention to the challenges or the efforts towards its development:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7255 Posts
August 17 2017 20:05 GMT
#169334
God dammit. Our President is so dumb its sad. If only we could get facebook to bombard him with memes that gave us good outcomes. Reverse directed advertizing our something.

How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
August 17 2017 20:08 GMT
#169335
On August 18 2017 05:05 Sadist wrote:
God dammit. Our President is so dumb its sad. If only we could get facebook to bombard him with memes that gave us good outcomes. Reverse directed advertizing our something.


well, you could try paying breitbart/foxnews to run stories the way you'd like (hard with fox, breitbart, I simply don't know how willing they'd be); or just buy ads on them.
they do have some good direct advertising programs these days; if you buy stuff targetted at the right markets/demographcs maybe you could get it tailored fairly narrowly and hoep for the best.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13984 Posts
August 17 2017 20:14 GMT
#169336
I was watching Fox at the time (long story I don't useualy watch it) and it was hilarious to watch shep read off the tweet. He said "but thats not true... the president if referring them burying the Muslim insurgents in the Philippines in mass graves with pigs... but thats not even true.. the premise of the presidents tweet is false... Well thats the presidential contribution for the day". He was so embarrassed and dejected from having to read that and it was glorious.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 17 2017 20:24 GMT
#169337
On August 18 2017 04:20 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2017 04:15 xDaunt wrote:
On August 18 2017 04:11 Plansix wrote:
Take the boot off their economic neck and clear the road, we could then critique the communities. But to be frank, whites have enough to critique in their own communities that they don’t really have time to be checking in on black communities.

What boot?

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/the-racist-housing-policy-that-made-your-neighborhood/371439/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/28/evidence-that-banks-still-deny-black-borrowers-just-as-they-did-50-years-ago/?utm_term=.7b6a20d4aff8

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/no-child-has-failed/2015/02/13/8d619026-b2f8-11e4-827f-93f454140e2b_story.html?utm_term=.6c9e814aa99d

And so on. No child left behind might as well have been called, “Pull Federal Funding form poor communities that also happen have black people in them.”


I can't see the WashPo articles, but the stuff dealing with redlining are past problems in that the government has already enacted laws prohibiting those practices. So what do you want to do?
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42967 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-17 20:28:35
August 17 2017 20:27 GMT
#169338
On August 18 2017 05:24 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2017 04:20 Plansix wrote:
On August 18 2017 04:15 xDaunt wrote:
On August 18 2017 04:11 Plansix wrote:
Take the boot off their economic neck and clear the road, we could then critique the communities. But to be frank, whites have enough to critique in their own communities that they don’t really have time to be checking in on black communities.

What boot?

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/the-racist-housing-policy-that-made-your-neighborhood/371439/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/28/evidence-that-banks-still-deny-black-borrowers-just-as-they-did-50-years-ago/?utm_term=.7b6a20d4aff8

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/no-child-has-failed/2015/02/13/8d619026-b2f8-11e4-827f-93f454140e2b_story.html?utm_term=.6c9e814aa99d

And so on. No child left behind might as well have been called, “Pull Federal Funding form poor communities that also happen have black people in them.”


I can't see the WashPo articles, but the stuff dealing with redlining are past problems in that the government has already enacted laws prohibiting those practices. So what do you want to do?

I disabled adblock for the team.
+ Show Spoiler [WaPo article] +
Wonkblog
Redlining: Still a thing
By Emily Badger May 28, 2015
"Redlining" just sounds like an an old-timey term, a practice that exists only in history and our re-tellings of it. The word has
particular roots in the 1930s, when the government-sponsored Home Owner's Loan Corporation first drafted maps of
American communities to sort through which ones were worthy of mortgage lending. Neighborhoods were ranked and colorcoded,
and the D-rated ones — shunned for their "inharmonious" racial groups — were typically outlined in red.
This government practice was swiftly adopted by private banks, too, during an era of massive homeownership expansion in the
U.S. And the visual language of the maps became a verb: To redline a community was to cut it off from essential capital. To be
redlined was something even worse.
The federal government eventually retreated from the practice, and it was outlawed by the Fair Housing Act in 1968. But black
communities have warned that it still exists in subtler and changed forms, in bank tactics that have targeted these same
neighborhoods for predatory lending, or in new patterns like "retail redlining." Some of the persistent redlining, though, still
looks an awful lot like the original.
Case in point: This week the Department of Housing and Urban Development settled with the largest bank headquartered in
Wisconsin over claims that it discriminated from 2008-2010 against black and Hispanic borrowers in Wisconsin, Illinois and
Minnesota. The bank, Associated Bank, denies wrongdoing in the settlement, but HUD itself is declaring victory in "one of the
largest redlining complaints" ever brought by the federal government against a mortgage lender.
HUD's analysis of Home Mortgage Disclosure Act data concluded that the bank disproportionately denied qualified loan
applicants in predominantly minority neighborhoods in Chicago, Milwaukee, and Minneapolis, compared to other lenders
operating in these same communities. Now Associated Bank has agreed to a long list of actions to make amends over the next
three years: It must finance nearly $200 million in home loans in majority-minority census tracts within these cities, and pay
nearly $10 million in down payment assistance to borrowers or in lower interest rates. It must also open four new offices in
minority neighborhoods in Chicago and Milwaukee, and invest $1.4 million in marketing loans in many of these same
underserved communities.
The case is not about doling out mortgages to minority households that wouldn't otherwise qualify for them — it's about
offering equal access to families that look just as eligible on paper as white homeowners nearby.
It is, however, a reality that historic redlining makes homeownership beyond reach for many families in these communities
today, regardless of how big banks behave now. If your family was denied a mortgage in the 1930s, or the 1950s, or the 1970s,
then you may not have the family wealth or down payment help to become a homeowner today. In that way, the consequences
of past redlining transcend time, even as new forms of it continue.
Emily Badger is a reporter for Wonkblog covering urban policy. She was previously a staff writer at The Atlantic
Cities.  Follow @emilymbadger
HUD's analysis of Home Mortgage Disclosure Act data concluded that the bank disproportionately denied qualified loan applicants in predominantly minority neighborhoods in Chicago, Milwaukee, and Minneapolis, compared to other lenders operating in these same communities.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-17 20:35:46
August 17 2017 20:34 GMT
#169339
On August 18 2017 05:24 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2017 04:20 Plansix wrote:
On August 18 2017 04:15 xDaunt wrote:
On August 18 2017 04:11 Plansix wrote:
Take the boot off their economic neck and clear the road, we could then critique the communities. But to be frank, whites have enough to critique in their own communities that they don’t really have time to be checking in on black communities.

What boot?

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/the-racist-housing-policy-that-made-your-neighborhood/371439/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/28/evidence-that-banks-still-deny-black-borrowers-just-as-they-did-50-years-ago/?utm_term=.7b6a20d4aff8

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/no-child-has-failed/2015/02/13/8d619026-b2f8-11e4-827f-93f454140e2b_story.html?utm_term=.6c9e814aa99d

And so on. No child left behind might as well have been called, “Pull Federal Funding form poor communities that also happen have black people in them.”


I can't see the WashPo articles, but the stuff dealing with redlining are past problems in that the government has already enacted laws prohibiting those practices. So what do you want to do?

The laws need to be enforced or updated to address the issues. Deal with red lining again. There is no middle class housing being built in America. Subsided housing is still being built in blocks, rather than in mixed communities(economic, not race). No child left behind was in place for over a decade and we need to re-invest in those school districts to rebuild them. We need to reform police departments and training to limit racial profiling.

But we can’t do any of that because people still argue if racism is a problem in America. They look at toothless laws and assume those are sufficient. So we argue over and over about what is racism.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
pmh
Profile Joined March 2016
1352 Posts
August 17 2017 20:35 GMT
#169340
Trump is done for,3 more months max.
Dow is gonna drop at least 20%,the whole trump rally was based on nothing.
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