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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On August 18 2017 05:35 pmh wrote: Trump is done for,3 more months max. Dow is gonna drop at least 20%,the whole trump rally was based on nothing. People have been saying trump was done since 2015. At this point I am not even ruling our him winning in 2020 | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On August 18 2017 05:43 NewSunshine wrote: He's been a fucking disaster since day 1. He's a timely wakeup call for a lot of people who stayed home in 2016, and for people that thought a complete political outsider was the thing we needed. People who thought he would make a presidential turn have been thoroughly disillusioned, as his behavior has only gotten worse each day. He's a reminder to less educated voters to do your homework before you casually choose who runs your country. The next election will not look like 2016's, I can all but guarantee that. Never underestimate the apathy of the American voter. If 2016 couldn't bring people to actually fucking vote, I don't think anything can. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8998 Posts
On August 18 2017 05:45 ZasZ. wrote: Never underestimate the apathy of the American voter. If 2016 couldn't bring people to actually fucking vote, I don't think anything can. The people who didn't vote, didn't because nothing that trump does really will affect them. They haven't been fucked hard yet, so they don't think it would have made a difference and they are indifferent to change anything because of it. The reason Obama got elected was because of the past 8 years and the financial recession. We have what we have now because the previous administration accomplished a lot and we're somewhat insulated from the negative affects. Once trump's policies affect enough people, then you will see more voices from all sides start to come out. Even the racists will want a change of guard. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 18 2017 05:34 Plansix wrote: The laws need to be enforced or updated to address the issues. Deal with red lining again. There is no middle class housing being built in America. Subsided housing is still being built in blocks, rather than in mixed communities(economic, not race). No child left behind was in place for over a decade and we need to re-invest in those school districts to rebuild them. We need to reform police departments and training to limit racial profiling. But we can’t do any of that because people still argue if racism is a problem in America. They look at toothless laws and assume those are sufficient. So we argue over and over about what is racism. Those mostly aren't even race-driven issues. Those are economic and class issues. Inserting race into that stuff does nothing more than shit up the conversation by dividing people and causing them to disengage. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On August 18 2017 05:43 NewSunshine wrote: He's been a fucking disaster since day 1. He's a timely wakeup call for a lot of people who stayed home in 2016, and for people that thought a complete political outsider was the thing we needed. People who thought he would make a presidential turn have been thoroughly disillusioned, as his behavior has only gotten worse each day. He's a reminder to less educated voters to do your homework before you casually choose who runs your country. The next election will not look like 2016's, I can all but guarantee that. I agree the next election will look diffrent; sadly people won't learn nearly as much as we'd hope they would. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23295 Posts
On August 18 2017 04:09 xDaunt wrote: So I've looked at the proposals for what government should do for black communities. None strike me as being a real difference maker, regardless of the merit of the change. So we're clear that xDaunts posts at this point are openly advocating white supremacy even if he asserts his support of white supremacy is incidental and he's sure the parts he supports aren't really white supremacy. I mean I've noticed this a looooong time ago, but it seems he's made it more clear for some? | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 18 2017 05:49 xDaunt wrote: Those mostly aren't even race-driven issues. Those are economic and class issues. Inserting race into that stuff does nothing more than shit up the conversation by dividing people and causing them to disengage. In some ways you are right about that. It isn’t only a race issue. But it impacts a larger number of minorities than whites. So it is an issue they care about and they perceive it to be a racial issue. And you don’t get to dictate what they perceive. Telling them they are “shitting up the issue” with race will is about as helpful me screaming “raciest” at you. You calm the left forces you out of the discussion, but mostly do it to yourself by simply refusing to listen. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On August 18 2017 05:50 GreenHorizons wrote: So we're clear that xDaunts posts at this point are openly advocating white supremacy even if he asserts his support of white supremacy is incidental and he's sure the parts he supports aren't really white supremacy. I mean I've noticed this a looooong time ago, but it seems he's made it more clear for some? At this point the white supremacy seems to be intentionally claimed, it is the Nazism that is being claimed to be incidental. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On August 18 2017 05:50 GreenHorizons wrote: So we're clear that xDaunts posts at this point are openly advocating white supremacy even if he asserts his support of white supremacy is incidental and he's sure the parts he supports aren't really white supremacy. I mean I've noticed this a looooong time ago, but it seems he's made it more clear for some? I don't think many of the regulars here treated any xDaunt discussion with good faith for a long while, but any attempts to characterize his posts would begin a long, boring chain of "misrepresentation" whining. Which was done again here, but there's really only so much backpedalling that can be done from posting a white supremacist ideologue as representing many of your "ideals". | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On August 18 2017 05:39 IyMoon wrote: People have been saying trump was done since 2015. At this point I am not even ruling our him winning in 2020 We don't have votes of no confidence or calls for early election here. Your best chance is he really fucking screwed up criminally and Mueller digs it all up. | ||
Falling
Canada11363 Posts
On August 18 2017 05:54 Plansix wrote: In some ways you are right about that. It isn’t only a race issue. But it impacts a larger number of minorities than whites. So it is an issue they care about and they perceive it to be a racial issue. And you don’t get to dictate what they perceive. Telling them they are “shitting up the issue” with race will is about as helpful me screaming “raciest” at you. You calm the left forces you out of the discussion, but mostly do it to yourself by simply refusing to listen. But it matters that you don't mix categories. You made this claim: "Take the boot off their economic neck and clear the road, Which sounds like deliberate policy to keep minorities down. The evidence that xDaunt had issue with had to do with the housing market, which is just as bad up in Canada. But that's really a supply issue. How do you encourage inexpensive or higher density housing? Do you start cutting by government land and selling it off or what? But it's helpful to separate problems that disproportionally affect minorities because there are policies targeting minorities and problems that disproportionally affect minorities because they tend to be poor, and it's tough being poor. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 18 2017 05:54 Plansix wrote: In some ways you are right about that. It isn’t only a race issue. But it impacts a larger number of minorities than whites. So it is an issue they care about and they perceive it to be a racial issue. And you don’t get to dictate what they perceive. Telling them they are “shitting up the issue” with race will is about as helpful me screaming “raciest” at you. You calm the left forces you out of the discussion, but mostly do it to yourself by simply refusing to listen. Well, y'all on the left are the ones who want something to be done. Starting the conversation with "you guys are a bunch of assholes" isn't exactly going to help you close the deal on what you're selling. Just some food for thought. | ||
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KwarK
United States42967 Posts
On August 18 2017 06:04 Falling wrote: But it matters that you don't mix categories. You made this claim: Which sounds like deliberate policy to keep minorities down. The evidence that xDaunt had issue with had to do with the housing market, which is just as bad up in Canada. But that's really a supply issue. How do you encourage inexpensive or higher density housing? Do you start cutting up government land or what? But it's helpful to separate problems that disproportionally affect minorities because there are policies targeting minorities and problems that disproportionally affect minorities because they tend to be poor, and it's tough being poor. The case that Plansix referenced was one in which they compared the lending rates to qualified applicants from minority districts of one bank to those of similar other banks in the area and found there to be a significant difference. It wasn't a general issue, they were comparing it to a benchmark set by the industry. That bank had a specific issue with loaning to qualified applicants from that district. Plansix said that red lining (not loaning to qualified people from minority districts) needs to be dealt with. xDaunt said that red lining wasn't a race issue (it has a long, long history as a race issue) and mentioning race there is just dividing people. Not really a supply issue in that case, as I'm sure you'll agree. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 18 2017 06:04 xDaunt wrote: Well, y'all on the left are the ones who want something to be done. Starting the conversation with "you guys are a bunch of assholes" isn't exactly going to help you close the deal on what you're selling. Just some food for thought. Xdaunt, you know I’ve been talking with you for like over 2 years now. My tone with you has nothing to do with me being from the left. It is because you are an asshole a large amount of the time. I have told you this several times. I have an entire republican wing of my family I talk and republican friends. We are able to have plenty of productive discussions about race and everything else. Its you dude. Just you. Take personally responsibility. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 18 2017 06:04 Falling wrote: But it matters that you don't mix categories. You made this claim: Which sounds like deliberate policy to keep minorities down. The evidence that xDaunt had issue with had to do with the housing market, which is just as bad up in Canada. But that's really a supply issue. How do you encourage inexpensive or higher density housing? Do you start cutting by government land and selling it off or what? But it's helpful to separate problems that disproportionally affect minorities because there are policies targeting minorities and problems that disproportionally affect minorities because they tend to be poor, and it's tough being poor. Exactly. Housing isn't a race issue at all. It's a class problem. Poor whites get screwed by the lack of affordable housing just as much as every other poor minority. And we can go down the list of problems that the black community has, and most of them fall into race-neutral categories -- the majority of those being economic. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15713 Posts
On August 18 2017 03:23 xDaunt wrote: The argument has never been that slavery and segregation had no adverse impact upon the black population. They clearly did. The issue has always been what we should do about it. We are 150 years out from the abolition of slavery. We are 50 years removed from the Civil Rights Act. Affirmative action policies have been in place for decades. What more is reasonably needed in terms of governmental intervention? You make it sound like we have all sorts of data and experience to show us that we are WAY past the point of needing to do this. The fact that 150 years feels like a long time for us in certain contexts does not mean it has some sort of divine quality of being "a long time" in any context. I don't think your argument makes any sense because it feels like you are implying there is some sort of known metric you are comparing it to. It's not that it normally takes former slaves who were then segregated 20 years to fully come up to speed, but these blacks are taking 130 years longer. This is just you going with what you think should be an appropriate time. But without the data behind how all of this works and what would be expected as a result of this and that program aimed at improving things, what value is citing the time since their beginning? If someone comes up with a shitty way of doing something, are you surprised when their shitty way takes too long? Shitty ideas take longer than good ideas, too. So not only do we not have some sort of measurable thing to compare it to, we also have the fact that we are assuming a proper, well done "come up to speed" program is being used. It isn't. | ||
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KwarK
United States42967 Posts
On August 18 2017 06:10 xDaunt wrote: Exactly. Housing isn't a race issue at all. It's a class problem. Poor whites get screwed by the lack of affordable housing just as much as every other poor minority. And we can go down the list of problems that the black community has, and most of them fall into race-neutral categories -- the majority of those being economic. Red lining is a specifically racial issue. Come on, it's from before the civil rights era, you can admit that people in power tended to be racist back then without it reflecting on you personally. | ||
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