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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On January 14 2014 00:29 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 17:40 mcc wrote:On January 13 2014 15:23 Nyxisto wrote:On January 13 2014 14:40 Roe wrote:On January 13 2014 14:37 Nyxisto wrote:
It's probably more a semantic thing than anything else, due to the two party system. I'm a Rep/Dem just seems to be a synonym for I'm left/right. they're both very right wing Regarding immigration and cultural topics I'd put the democrats left of almost any European party. Economics isn't the only topic on this planet. In what way are they more liberal on cultural topics ? You have to just look at any left-wing party in northern Europe to find counter-example. LGBT- rights for example, or drug policy (nowadays). Most bigger European left wing/ "social democratic" parties are pretty conservative on those topics because they got their fair share of European "stick up your ass" - traditionalism.
Are you sure ? Especially Nordic countries are I would say far ahead on LGBT rights of average Democrat. For transsexuals the treatment including the operation is covered by public insurance here. Note that I am not saying culturally European countries are more liberal than Democrats, just that your assertion that there are none/few parties more liberal than Democrats seems not very well supported and it seems you are painting whole of Europe through Germany's point of view. I would be surprised though if Greens in Germany were much different from the most liberal of Democrats.
EDIT: As for drugs - really ? I seem to recall few European countries that legalized/decriminalized marihuana long before many heavily Democratic states (some still did not).
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Norway28674 Posts
I think drugs is prolly the only area where democrats as a whole might be considered "left" of like, any norwegian party. maybe lgbt/abortion if you compare them with our christian people's party which got 5% in the previous election.
One important aspect to factor in though, is the difference between rhetoric and policy. To me, democrats often sound like norwegian social democrats - but their suggested policy would place them firmly on the "right" side of the norwegian political climate. This isn't really weird - how you argue has just as much to do with who you're arguing against as what your suggested policy is. If democrats were pitted against the norwegian labour party in a political debate, there would be no question which party was on the left/right side of the spectrum.
Also, in norway people rarely define themselves as "party", but there's a separation between "socialist" and "bourgeois" camps, and people do sometimes define themselves as belonging to either of those.
And to add to what mcc was saying earlier, the left/right mostly refers to economic policy, not in the sense that parties are either for command or market economies, but in the sense that every party is arguing for a mixed economy and the parties further to the left want more regulations and the parties on the right want less. There is no serious political actor in Norway arguing for abolition of property rights nor for austrian economics or whatever.
Traditionally opposition to immigration was also a "far-right" thing, but in the past decade it has also become a position held by some left-populist parties (in fact nowadays opposition to immigration is to a much larger degree determined by whether a party is populist or not, simply due to the population as a whole generally being much less positive than the politicians. Kinda like how people feel about the EU, although there opposition moved from "general-left" to "general left and populist right".
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On January 13 2014 22:10 RvB wrote:
I wouldn't call the Democrats right wing at all they would be a mid party I'd say. ANd yes Jonny people still vote for communists here. The populist left party in NL got 15 out of 150 seats and was the 3rd biggest in the election together with the populist right party from Wilders.
Makes about as much sense as Golden Dawn winning seats.
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On January 14 2014 01:36 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Traditionally opposition to immigration was also a "far-right" thing, but in the past decade it has also become a position held by some left-populist parties (in fact nowadays opposition to immigration is to a much larger degree determined by whether a party is populist or not, simply due to the population as a whole generally being much less positive than the politicians. Kinda like how people feel about the EU, although there opposition moved from "general-left" to "general left and populist right".
That's why I think that the Democrats(and the US in general probably) are actually not as right wing as many people make it sound here. Europeans left has joined the "down with the establishment!" EU hate-train, nationalism is gaining a lot of popularity here and I don't see that in the US.
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You guys know that in the US, medicare, medicaid, and even military insurance do not cover abortions. They just changed it last year that if you are raped by someone in the military, the insurance will cover your abortion.
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On January 14 2014 02:50 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 01:36 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Traditionally opposition to immigration was also a "far-right" thing, but in the past decade it has also become a position held by some left-populist parties (in fact nowadays opposition to immigration is to a much larger degree determined by whether a party is populist or not, simply due to the population as a whole generally being much less positive than the politicians. Kinda like how people feel about the EU, although there opposition moved from "general-left" to "general left and populist right". That's why I think that the Democrats(and the US in general probably) are actually not as right wing as many people make it sound here. Europeans left has joined the "down with the establishment!" EU hate-train, nationalism is gaining a lot of popularity here and I don't see that in the US.
You don't see a lot of nationalism in the US? *sideways confused cat-face*
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New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R) is facing a federal investigation into whether the governor used Hurricane Sandy relief money to produce tourism ads starring himself and his family, Rep. Frank Pallone (D-N.J.) told CNN Sunday. The New Jersey lawmaker said the inspector general for the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development conducted a preliminary investigation, and concluded that a full investigation is warranted.
The investigation comes as the New Jersey governor is facing a separate federal probe into revelations that his top aides engineered the temporary shutdown of access lanes to the George Washington Bridge as political retribution.
Pallone wrote a letter to the inspector general of the Department of Housing and Urban Development in August, asking why a firm with a more expensive pitch won the project to make a New Jersey tourism campaign with Hurricane Sandy relief funds. The winning firm's bid was $4.7 million, while a comparable firm cost $2.5 million. The more expensive idea included the Christies, while the cheaper pitch did not.
In a slickly produced ad released in May, Christie appeared towards the end and proclaimed that New Jersey was "stronger than the storm."
Source
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On January 14 2014 02:57 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 02:50 Nyxisto wrote:On January 14 2014 01:36 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Traditionally opposition to immigration was also a "far-right" thing, but in the past decade it has also become a position held by some left-populist parties (in fact nowadays opposition to immigration is to a much larger degree determined by whether a party is populist or not, simply due to the population as a whole generally being much less positive than the politicians. Kinda like how people feel about the EU, although there opposition moved from "general-left" to "general left and populist right". That's why I think that the Democrats(and the US in general probably) are actually not as right wing as many people make it sound here. Europeans left has joined the "down with the establishment!" EU hate-train, nationalism is gaining a lot of popularity here and I don't see that in the US. You don't see a lot of nationalism in the US? *sideways confused cat-face*
No, I think there's an important difference between patriotism and "we are the master race, immigrants are evil" nationalism. And I think regarding the latter the US, due to it's history, has always been kind of "left". (And Europe could probably need a dose of that attitude)
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On January 14 2014 03:04 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 02:57 Roe wrote:On January 14 2014 02:50 Nyxisto wrote:On January 14 2014 01:36 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Traditionally opposition to immigration was also a "far-right" thing, but in the past decade it has also become a position held by some left-populist parties (in fact nowadays opposition to immigration is to a much larger degree determined by whether a party is populist or not, simply due to the population as a whole generally being much less positive than the politicians. Kinda like how people feel about the EU, although there opposition moved from "general-left" to "general left and populist right". That's why I think that the Democrats(and the US in general probably) are actually not as right wing as many people make it sound here. Europeans left has joined the "down with the establishment!" EU hate-train, nationalism is gaining a lot of popularity here and I don't see that in the US. You don't see a lot of nationalism in the US? *sideways confused cat-face* No, I think there's an important difference between patriotism and "we are the master race, immigrants are evil" nationalism.
*cough cough* Japan *cough cough*
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On January 14 2014 03:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 03:04 Nyxisto wrote:On January 14 2014 02:57 Roe wrote:On January 14 2014 02:50 Nyxisto wrote:On January 14 2014 01:36 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Traditionally opposition to immigration was also a "far-right" thing, but in the past decade it has also become a position held by some left-populist parties (in fact nowadays opposition to immigration is to a much larger degree determined by whether a party is populist or not, simply due to the population as a whole generally being much less positive than the politicians. Kinda like how people feel about the EU, although there opposition moved from "general-left" to "general left and populist right". That's why I think that the Democrats(and the US in general probably) are actually not as right wing as many people make it sound here. Europeans left has joined the "down with the establishment!" EU hate-train, nationalism is gaining a lot of popularity here and I don't see that in the US. You don't see a lot of nationalism in the US? *sideways confused cat-face* No, I think there's an important difference between patriotism and "we are the master race, immigrants are evil" nationalism. *cough cough* Japan *cough cough*
Jim Crow says hello.
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On January 14 2014 03:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 03:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 03:04 Nyxisto wrote:On January 14 2014 02:57 Roe wrote:On January 14 2014 02:50 Nyxisto wrote:On January 14 2014 01:36 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Traditionally opposition to immigration was also a "far-right" thing, but in the past decade it has also become a position held by some left-populist parties (in fact nowadays opposition to immigration is to a much larger degree determined by whether a party is populist or not, simply due to the population as a whole generally being much less positive than the politicians. Kinda like how people feel about the EU, although there opposition moved from "general-left" to "general left and populist right". That's why I think that the Democrats(and the US in general probably) are actually not as right wing as many people make it sound here. Europeans left has joined the "down with the establishment!" EU hate-train, nationalism is gaining a lot of popularity here and I don't see that in the US. You don't see a lot of nationalism in the US? *sideways confused cat-face* No, I think there's an important difference between patriotism and "we are the master race, immigrants are evil" nationalism. *cough cough* Japan *cough cough* Jim Crow says hello.
Hi. I'm referencing Japan today. Still very xenophobic, still very restrictive immigration policies. I don't think they do the master race shtick, but my comment was sort of tongue in cheek.
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United States42791 Posts
On January 14 2014 03:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 03:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:On January 14 2014 03:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 03:04 Nyxisto wrote:On January 14 2014 02:57 Roe wrote:On January 14 2014 02:50 Nyxisto wrote:On January 14 2014 01:36 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Traditionally opposition to immigration was also a "far-right" thing, but in the past decade it has also become a position held by some left-populist parties (in fact nowadays opposition to immigration is to a much larger degree determined by whether a party is populist or not, simply due to the population as a whole generally being much less positive than the politicians. Kinda like how people feel about the EU, although there opposition moved from "general-left" to "general left and populist right". That's why I think that the Democrats(and the US in general probably) are actually not as right wing as many people make it sound here. Europeans left has joined the "down with the establishment!" EU hate-train, nationalism is gaining a lot of popularity here and I don't see that in the US. You don't see a lot of nationalism in the US? *sideways confused cat-face* No, I think there's an important difference between patriotism and "we are the master race, immigrants are evil" nationalism. *cough cough* Japan *cough cough* Jim Crow says hello. Hi. I'm referencing Japan today. Still very xenophobic, still very restrictive immigration policies. I don't think they do the master race shtick, but my comment was sort of tongue in cheek.
Try marrying a black guy as a Japanese girl and see what your parents say.
They still do the master race thing.
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On January 14 2014 03:15 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 03:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 03:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:On January 14 2014 03:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 03:04 Nyxisto wrote:On January 14 2014 02:57 Roe wrote:On January 14 2014 02:50 Nyxisto wrote:On January 14 2014 01:36 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Traditionally opposition to immigration was also a "far-right" thing, but in the past decade it has also become a position held by some left-populist parties (in fact nowadays opposition to immigration is to a much larger degree determined by whether a party is populist or not, simply due to the population as a whole generally being much less positive than the politicians. Kinda like how people feel about the EU, although there opposition moved from "general-left" to "general left and populist right". That's why I think that the Democrats(and the US in general probably) are actually not as right wing as many people make it sound here. Europeans left has joined the "down with the establishment!" EU hate-train, nationalism is gaining a lot of popularity here and I don't see that in the US. You don't see a lot of nationalism in the US? *sideways confused cat-face* No, I think there's an important difference between patriotism and "we are the master race, immigrants are evil" nationalism. *cough cough* Japan *cough cough* Jim Crow says hello. Hi. I'm referencing Japan today. Still very xenophobic, still very restrictive immigration policies. I don't think they do the master race shtick, but my comment was sort of tongue in cheek. Try marrying a black guy as a Japanese girl and see what your parents say. They still do the master race thing.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZH4R885.jpg)
Yeah it's damn near impossible to get this guy dates, let alone married. Don't really know how much racism factors into it though.
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Why limit it to Japan? The other East Asian countries are just as bad.
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On January 14 2014 03:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R) is facing a federal investigation into whether the governor used Hurricane Sandy relief money to produce tourism ads starring himself and his family, Rep. Frank Pallone (D-N.J.) told CNN Sunday. The New Jersey lawmaker said the inspector general for the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development conducted a preliminary investigation, and concluded that a full investigation is warranted.
The investigation comes as the New Jersey governor is facing a separate federal probe into revelations that his top aides engineered the temporary shutdown of access lanes to the George Washington Bridge as political retribution.
Pallone wrote a letter to the inspector general of the Department of Housing and Urban Development in August, asking why a firm with a more expensive pitch won the project to make a New Jersey tourism campaign with Hurricane Sandy relief funds. The winning firm's bid was $4.7 million, while a comparable firm cost $2.5 million. The more expensive idea included the Christies, while the cheaper pitch did not.
In a slickly produced ad released in May, Christie appeared towards the end and proclaimed that New Jersey was "stronger than the storm." Source
The real crime here is that someone was willing to pay $4.7 Mn for those awful horrendous commercials with that corny ass song
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New Jersey Senate Majority Leader Loretta Weinberg (D) provided a letter to TPM on Monday showing that she attempted to alert Gov. Chris Christie (R) about lane closures on the George Washington Bridge in September, just six days after the lanes reopened.
The letter gets to the heart of one of the major unanswered questions in a scandal that has erupted from the closures: what did Christie know and when did he know it?
The lanes were closed on Sept. 9 and re-opened again on early on the morning of Sept. 13. Weinberg, whose district includes part of Fort Lee, N.J., which saw days of traffic gridlock because of the closures, wrote the letter on Sept. 19.
The letter was addressed to William Pat Schuber, a commissioner of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which oversees the bridge, expressing her dismay about the lane closures. She also copied Christie on it.
"I am at a loss for words regarding the Authority's sudden change in the traffic flow pattern to the George Washington Bridge from Fort Lee. Reducing the number of lanes during peak traffic times has caused a significant hardship for many in the area. This decision, made with no public comment, has created significant congestion in Bergen County," Weinberg wrote.
Source
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On January 14 2014 03:58 xDaunt wrote:
Why limit it to Japan? The other East Asian countries are just as bad.
The sad part is, East Asian countries are so insanely racist that it is almost accepted around here nowadays. People don't think much of it when you hear someone Chinese say they'd prefer to marry someone else Chinese. Compare that to someone white saying they'd rather marry someone white.
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On January 14 2014 02:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 22:10 RvB wrote:
I wouldn't call the Democrats right wing at all they would be a mid party I'd say. ANd yes Jonny people still vote for communists here. The populist left party in NL got 15 out of 150 seats and was the 3rd biggest in the election together with the populist right party from Wilders. Makes about as much sense as Golden Dawn winning seats.
Can I guess you're "open-mindness" doesn't extent to everyone ?
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United States42791 Posts
On January 14 2014 03:58 xDaunt wrote:
Why limit it to Japan? The other East Asian countries are just as bad.
Absolutely, although the Japanese are the only ones to have used foreigners as livestock, lab rats, sex slaves and biological warfare agents in the last century.
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There's plenty of nationalism in the US...
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EPT
