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On January 14 2014 04:50 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 02:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 22:10 RvB wrote:
I wouldn't call the Democrats right wing at all they would be a mid party I'd say. ANd yes Jonny people still vote for communists here. The populist left party in NL got 15 out of 150 seats and was the 3rd biggest in the election together with the populist right party from Wilders. Makes about as much sense as Golden Dawn winning seats. Can I guess you're "open-mindness" doesn't extent to everyone ?
It is a bit ironic, but yes, I have a hard time being tolerant to the intolerant.
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On January 14 2014 04:53 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 03:58 xDaunt wrote:
Why limit it to Japan? The other East Asian countries are just as bad. Absolutely, although the Japanese are the only ones to have used foreigners as livestock, lab rats, sex slaves and biological warfare agents in the last century.
And probably the only country where denial of such activities seemed to have been swept under the rug for such a long time.
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On January 14 2014 05:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 04:50 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 02:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 22:10 RvB wrote:
I wouldn't call the Democrats right wing at all they would be a mid party I'd say. ANd yes Jonny people still vote for communists here. The populist left party in NL got 15 out of 150 seats and was the 3rd biggest in the election together with the populist right party from Wilders. Makes about as much sense as Golden Dawn winning seats. Can I guess you're "open-mindness" doesn't extent to everyone ? It is a bit ironic, but yes, I have a hard time being tolerant to the intolerant.
And I'm sure you're very well-versed in the fascinating arcanes of European extreme left to say that.
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On January 14 2014 05:15 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 05:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 04:50 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 02:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 22:10 RvB wrote:
I wouldn't call the Democrats right wing at all they would be a mid party I'd say. ANd yes Jonny people still vote for communists here. The populist left party in NL got 15 out of 150 seats and was the 3rd biggest in the election together with the populist right party from Wilders. Makes about as much sense as Golden Dawn winning seats. Can I guess you're "open-mindness" doesn't extent to everyone ? It is a bit ironic, but yes, I have a hard time being tolerant to the intolerant. And I'm sure you're very well-versed in the fascinating arcanes of European extreme left to say that.
Intolerant was in reference to Golden Dawn. Regardless, it's a politics thread so yeah I'm absolutely going to disagree with opposing political views here. It's kind of what this thread is for.
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On January 14 2014 05:27 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 05:15 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 04:50 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 02:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 22:10 RvB wrote:
I wouldn't call the Democrats right wing at all they would be a mid party I'd say. ANd yes Jonny people still vote for communists here. The populist left party in NL got 15 out of 150 seats and was the 3rd biggest in the election together with the populist right party from Wilders. Makes about as much sense as Golden Dawn winning seats. Can I guess you're "open-mindness" doesn't extent to everyone ? It is a bit ironic, but yes, I have a hard time being tolerant to the intolerant. And I'm sure you're very well-versed in the fascinating arcanes of European extreme left to say that. Intolerant was in reference to Golden Dawn. Regardless, it's a politics thread so yeah I'm absolutely going to disagree with opposing political views here. It's kind of what this thread is for.
And my open-mindedness was in reference to communists, who apparently are the same anyway, horrible dodge.
Also you said voting for them didn't make sense, a little stronger than merely disagreeing.
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On January 14 2014 05:29 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 05:27 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:15 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 04:50 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 02:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 22:10 RvB wrote:
I wouldn't call the Democrats right wing at all they would be a mid party I'd say. ANd yes Jonny people still vote for communists here. The populist left party in NL got 15 out of 150 seats and was the 3rd biggest in the election together with the populist right party from Wilders. Makes about as much sense as Golden Dawn winning seats. Can I guess you're "open-mindness" doesn't extent to everyone ? It is a bit ironic, but yes, I have a hard time being tolerant to the intolerant. And I'm sure you're very well-versed in the fascinating arcanes of European extreme left to say that. Intolerant was in reference to Golden Dawn. Regardless, it's a politics thread so yeah I'm absolutely going to disagree with opposing political views here. It's kind of what this thread is for. And my open-mindedness was in reference to communists, who apparently are the same anyway, horrible dodge. Also you said voting for them didn't make sense, a little stronger than merely disagreeing.
Well to be fair, most communist parties are pretty awful, especially the KKE but maybe I am being a bit too sectarian.
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On January 14 2014 05:29 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 05:27 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:15 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 04:50 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 02:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 22:10 RvB wrote:
I wouldn't call the Democrats right wing at all they would be a mid party I'd say. ANd yes Jonny people still vote for communists here. The populist left party in NL got 15 out of 150 seats and was the 3rd biggest in the election together with the populist right party from Wilders. Makes about as much sense as Golden Dawn winning seats. Can I guess you're "open-mindness" doesn't extent to everyone ? It is a bit ironic, but yes, I have a hard time being tolerant to the intolerant. And I'm sure you're very well-versed in the fascinating arcanes of European extreme left to say that. Intolerant was in reference to Golden Dawn. Regardless, it's a politics thread so yeah I'm absolutely going to disagree with opposing political views here. It's kind of what this thread is for. And my open-mindedness was in reference to communists, who apparently are the same anyway, horrible dodge. Also you said voting for them didn't make sense, a little stronger than merely disagreeing.
I think communism has historically been about as good for humanity as fascism. So if you want to convince me that voting communist is a good idea, good luck.
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I actually have no fucking clue, but given what the extreme left looks like in France (a huge mess), I would probably take a huge breath before commentating on how everyone is useless or intolerant.
And let's be honest, I would have let it slide hadn't it be jonnhy...
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On January 14 2014 05:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 05:29 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:27 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:15 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 04:50 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 02:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 22:10 RvB wrote:
I wouldn't call the Democrats right wing at all they would be a mid party I'd say. ANd yes Jonny people still vote for communists here. The populist left party in NL got 15 out of 150 seats and was the 3rd biggest in the election together with the populist right party from Wilders. Makes about as much sense as Golden Dawn winning seats. Can I guess you're "open-mindness" doesn't extent to everyone ? It is a bit ironic, but yes, I have a hard time being tolerant to the intolerant. And I'm sure you're very well-versed in the fascinating arcanes of European extreme left to say that. Intolerant was in reference to Golden Dawn. Regardless, it's a politics thread so yeah I'm absolutely going to disagree with opposing political views here. It's kind of what this thread is for. And my open-mindedness was in reference to communists, who apparently are the same anyway, horrible dodge. Also you said voting for them didn't make sense, a little stronger than merely disagreeing. I think communism has historically been about as good for humanity as fascism. So if you want to convince me that voting communist is a good idea, good luck.
Communism = stalinism, yeah I know.
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On January 14 2014 05:39 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 05:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:29 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:27 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:15 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 04:50 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 02:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 22:10 RvB wrote:
I wouldn't call the Democrats right wing at all they would be a mid party I'd say. ANd yes Jonny people still vote for communists here. The populist left party in NL got 15 out of 150 seats and was the 3rd biggest in the election together with the populist right party from Wilders. Makes about as much sense as Golden Dawn winning seats. Can I guess you're "open-mindness" doesn't extent to everyone ? It is a bit ironic, but yes, I have a hard time being tolerant to the intolerant. And I'm sure you're very well-versed in the fascinating arcanes of European extreme left to say that. Intolerant was in reference to Golden Dawn. Regardless, it's a politics thread so yeah I'm absolutely going to disagree with opposing political views here. It's kind of what this thread is for. And my open-mindedness was in reference to communists, who apparently are the same anyway, horrible dodge. Also you said voting for them didn't make sense, a little stronger than merely disagreeing. I think communism has historically been about as good for humanity as fascism. So if you want to convince me that voting communist is a good idea, good luck. Communism = stalinism, yeah I know.
"This time is different" = heard it before.
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On January 14 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 05:39 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:29 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:27 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:15 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 04:50 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 02:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 22:10 RvB wrote:
I wouldn't call the Democrats right wing at all they would be a mid party I'd say. ANd yes Jonny people still vote for communists here. The populist left party in NL got 15 out of 150 seats and was the 3rd biggest in the election together with the populist right party from Wilders. Makes about as much sense as Golden Dawn winning seats. Can I guess you're "open-mindness" doesn't extent to everyone ? It is a bit ironic, but yes, I have a hard time being tolerant to the intolerant. And I'm sure you're very well-versed in the fascinating arcanes of European extreme left to say that. Intolerant was in reference to Golden Dawn. Regardless, it's a politics thread so yeah I'm absolutely going to disagree with opposing political views here. It's kind of what this thread is for. And my open-mindedness was in reference to communists, who apparently are the same anyway, horrible dodge. Also you said voting for them didn't make sense, a little stronger than merely disagreeing. I think communism has historically been about as good for humanity as fascism. So if you want to convince me that voting communist is a good idea, good luck. Communism = stalinism, yeah I know. "This time is different" = heard it before.
Like when ?
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On January 14 2014 05:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 05:29 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:27 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:15 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 04:50 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 02:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 22:10 RvB wrote:
I wouldn't call the Democrats right wing at all they would be a mid party I'd say. ANd yes Jonny people still vote for communists here. The populist left party in NL got 15 out of 150 seats and was the 3rd biggest in the election together with the populist right party from Wilders. Makes about as much sense as Golden Dawn winning seats. Can I guess you're "open-mindness" doesn't extent to everyone ? It is a bit ironic, but yes, I have a hard time being tolerant to the intolerant. And I'm sure you're very well-versed in the fascinating arcanes of European extreme left to say that. Intolerant was in reference to Golden Dawn. Regardless, it's a politics thread so yeah I'm absolutely going to disagree with opposing political views here. It's kind of what this thread is for. And my open-mindedness was in reference to communists, who apparently are the same anyway, horrible dodge. Also you said voting for them didn't make sense, a little stronger than merely disagreeing. I think communism has historically been about as good for humanity as fascism. So if you want to convince me that voting communist is a good idea, good luck.
I have trouble finding anything good about people such as Stalin, Mao, and Hoxha, but communists who generally have no power tend to achieve pretty good things. The communist guerrillas did give fascists in World War II a headache. The Yugoslavs pretty much led their own war, Mussolini had Hitler send 6 divisions to suppress uprisings, and the communists in other European countries were often the first to respond to fascism.
Also, many communists did guide history in the right direction such as anti-apartheid, racial equality, women's rights, and sexual liberation.
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United States44449 Posts
On January 14 2014 05:43 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:39 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:29 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:27 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:15 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 04:50 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 02:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
[quote]
Makes about as much sense as Golden Dawn winning seats. Can I guess you're "open-mindness" doesn't extent to everyone ? It is a bit ironic, but yes, I have a hard time being tolerant to the intolerant. And I'm sure you're very well-versed in the fascinating arcanes of European extreme left to say that. Intolerant was in reference to Golden Dawn. Regardless, it's a politics thread so yeah I'm absolutely going to disagree with opposing political views here. It's kind of what this thread is for. And my open-mindedness was in reference to communists, who apparently are the same anyway, horrible dodge. Also you said voting for them didn't make sense, a little stronger than merely disagreeing. I think communism has historically been about as good for humanity as fascism. So if you want to convince me that voting communist is a good idea, good luck. Communism = stalinism, yeah I know. "This time is different" = heard it before. Like when ?
Possibly heard it here.
![[image loading]](http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01678/posters_1678527c.jpg)
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On January 14 2014 05:44 Shiragaku wrote:
and the communists in other European countries were often the first to respond to fascism.
Except, you guess it, the communist party in France for instance.
Comrade Staline, how good were you...
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United States44449 Posts
On January 14 2014 05:44 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 05:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:29 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:27 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:15 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 04:50 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 02:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 22:10 RvB wrote:
I wouldn't call the Democrats right wing at all they would be a mid party I'd say. ANd yes Jonny people still vote for communists here. The populist left party in NL got 15 out of 150 seats and was the 3rd biggest in the election together with the populist right party from Wilders. Makes about as much sense as Golden Dawn winning seats. Can I guess you're "open-mindness" doesn't extent to everyone ? It is a bit ironic, but yes, I have a hard time being tolerant to the intolerant. And I'm sure you're very well-versed in the fascinating arcanes of European extreme left to say that. Intolerant was in reference to Golden Dawn. Regardless, it's a politics thread so yeah I'm absolutely going to disagree with opposing political views here. It's kind of what this thread is for. And my open-mindedness was in reference to communists, who apparently are the same anyway, horrible dodge. Also you said voting for them didn't make sense, a little stronger than merely disagreeing. I think communism has historically been about as good for humanity as fascism. So if you want to convince me that voting communist is a good idea, good luck. I have trouble finding anything good about people such as Stalin, Mao, and Hoxha, but communists who generally have no power tend to achieve pretty good things. The communist guerrillas did give fascists in World War II a headache. The Yugoslavs pretty much led their own war, Mussolini had Hitler send 6 divisions to suppress uprisings, and the communists in other European countries were often the first to respond to fascism. Also, many communists did guide history in the right direction such as anti-apartheid, racial equality, women's rights, and sexual liberation.
Not to mention international fraternity and community and pacifism being pretty central communist ideals. Communist theory states that the working men around the world are brothers with more in common with each other than the financiers who pit them against each other for power and profit. 20th century Russia being an autocratic state can far more easily be blamed on 19th century Russia being an autocratic state than something uniquely wrong with communism.
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On January 14 2014 05:43 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:39 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:29 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:27 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:15 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 04:50 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 02:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
[quote]
Makes about as much sense as Golden Dawn winning seats. Can I guess you're "open-mindness" doesn't extent to everyone ? It is a bit ironic, but yes, I have a hard time being tolerant to the intolerant. And I'm sure you're very well-versed in the fascinating arcanes of European extreme left to say that. Intolerant was in reference to Golden Dawn. Regardless, it's a politics thread so yeah I'm absolutely going to disagree with opposing political views here. It's kind of what this thread is for. And my open-mindedness was in reference to communists, who apparently are the same anyway, horrible dodge. Also you said voting for them didn't make sense, a little stronger than merely disagreeing. I think communism has historically been about as good for humanity as fascism. So if you want to convince me that voting communist is a good idea, good luck. Communism = stalinism, yeah I know. "This time is different" = heard it before. Like when ?
You know, I've (honestly) tried to engage with Marxists / Communists on this thread and others before and it keeps boiling down to the same thing - some nice theoretical ideas that have no substance. At the end of the day, to me, that looks too much like communism in Russia or China or some of the wacky-taffy policies going on in Venezuela today.
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On January 14 2014 05:46 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 05:44 Shiragaku wrote:
and the communists in other European countries were often the first to respond to fascism.
Except, you guess it, the communist party in France for instance. Comrade Staline, how good were you...
I am sorry to say, but anything coming from PCF and French Left makes me sad.
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United States44449 Posts
On January 14 2014 05:49 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 05:43 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:39 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:29 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:27 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:15 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 04:50 corumjhaelen wrote:
[quote]
Can I guess you're "open-mindness" doesn't extent to everyone ? It is a bit ironic, but yes, I have a hard time being tolerant to the intolerant. And I'm sure you're very well-versed in the fascinating arcanes of European extreme left to say that. Intolerant was in reference to Golden Dawn. Regardless, it's a politics thread so yeah I'm absolutely going to disagree with opposing political views here. It's kind of what this thread is for. And my open-mindedness was in reference to communists, who apparently are the same anyway, horrible dodge. Also you said voting for them didn't make sense, a little stronger than merely disagreeing. I think communism has historically been about as good for humanity as fascism. So if you want to convince me that voting communist is a good idea, good luck. Communism = stalinism, yeah I know. "This time is different" = heard it before. Like when ? You know, I've (honestly) tried to engage with Marxists / Communists on this thread and others before and it keeps boiling down to the same thing - some nice theoretical ideas that have no substance. At the end of the day, to me, that looks too much like communism in Russia or China or some of the wacky-taffy policies going on in Venezuela today.
So you've not actually heard "this time it's different" before and seen it shown to be wrong? You just believe that it won't be different and want to now use that belief as evidence that it's the same?
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On January 14 2014 05:52 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 05:49 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:43 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:39 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:29 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:27 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:15 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
[quote]
It is a bit ironic, but yes, I have a hard time being tolerant to the intolerant. And I'm sure you're very well-versed in the fascinating arcanes of European extreme left to say that. Intolerant was in reference to Golden Dawn. Regardless, it's a politics thread so yeah I'm absolutely going to disagree with opposing political views here. It's kind of what this thread is for. And my open-mindedness was in reference to communists, who apparently are the same anyway, horrible dodge. Also you said voting for them didn't make sense, a little stronger than merely disagreeing. I think communism has historically been about as good for humanity as fascism. So if you want to convince me that voting communist is a good idea, good luck. Communism = stalinism, yeah I know. "This time is different" = heard it before. Like when ? You know, I've (honestly) tried to engage with Marxists / Communists on this thread and others before and it keeps boiling down to the same thing - some nice theoretical ideas that have no substance. At the end of the day, to me, that looks too much like communism in Russia or China or some of the wacky-taffy policies going on in Venezuela today. So you've not actually heard "this time it's different" before and seen it shown to be wrong? You just believe that it won't be different and want to now use that belief as evidence that it's the same?
People say "this time it's different" all the time, only for it to turn out the same. The burden of proof is on the guy saying that this time it'll be different.
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On January 14 2014 05:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 05:52 KwarK wrote:On January 14 2014 05:49 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:43 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:39 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:29 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 14 2014 05:27 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 14 2014 05:15 corumjhaelen wrote:
[quote]
And I'm sure you're very well-versed in the fascinating arcanes of European extreme left to say that. Intolerant was in reference to Golden Dawn. Regardless, it's a politics thread so yeah I'm absolutely going to disagree with opposing political views here. It's kind of what this thread is for. And my open-mindedness was in reference to communists, who apparently are the same anyway, horrible dodge. Also you said voting for them didn't make sense, a little stronger than merely disagreeing. I think communism has historically been about as good for humanity as fascism. So if you want to convince me that voting communist is a good idea, good luck. Communism = stalinism, yeah I know. "This time is different" = heard it before. Like when ? You know, I've (honestly) tried to engage with Marxists / Communists on this thread and others before and it keeps boiling down to the same thing - some nice theoretical ideas that have no substance. At the end of the day, to me, that looks too much like communism in Russia or China or some of the wacky-taffy policies going on in Venezuela today. So you've not actually heard "this time it's different" before and seen it shown to be wrong? You just believe that it won't be different and want to now use that belief as evidence that it's the same? People say "this time it's different" all the time, only for it to turn out the same. The burden of proof is on the guy saying that this time it'll be different.
The dominant pattern of communist revolutions has been Marxism-Leninism who wished to copy pretty much everything that went on in Russia or China. I would not call it a "this time it's different" type of thing.
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