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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
Depends on the context. In specific terms of American politics they are left and right. On absolute scale (let's assume it is 1D scale) from command economy to completely free market they are both right wing parties. EDIT: For example in Europe which has much wider range of electable parties they are both considered right wing parties. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8541 Posts
On January 13 2014 15:02 mcc wrote: Depends on the context. In specific terms of American politics they are left and right. On absolute scale (let's assume it is 1D scale) from command economy to completely free market they are both right wing parties. This. I think that would be a good argument for "American Exceptionalism". Having your own political scale and letting the rest of the world "do their thang" :p | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On January 13 2014 15:02 mcc wrote: Depends on the context. In specific terms of American politics they are left and right. On absolute scale (let's assume it is 1D scale) from command economy to completely free market they are both right wing parties. EDIT: For example in Europe which has much wider range of electable parties they are both considered right wing parties. In Europe left/right only signifies preference for market vs command economies? How do people advocating command economies still get elected? | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On January 13 2014 11:19 KwarK wrote: What if you're not really posting that but just think you are, what then?!?! its ok im a third party observer who helps confirm that all of this in fact is real but what if im just a construct designed to perpetuate your belief in your reality? or what if im god? | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On January 13 2014 02:15 Roe wrote: The conducted poll surveyed 1020 adults and gave results with a +/-4 percentage points at 95% confidence levels. Reading this and giving the DURR "all 500 people don't like obamacare" is tantamount to dismissing the science of any poll that doesn't spend billions and trillions interviewing everybody or some kind of majority of the population. For all the charges leveled against the dumb tea party, there's the occasional liberal enlightened fellow that doesn't understand statistics or polling.umm what's your point? saying half of americans don't like obamacare is indeed a ridiculous conclusion. follow the evidence. don't lead it to where you want it to go because of "it's science! we've got these formulas that work, trust me!" You can explain why it doesn't prove anything. You can do this without also trying to invalidate every poll of its kind ever made on any topic. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8541 Posts
On January 13 2014 15:11 JonnyBNoHo wrote: In Europe left/right only signifies preference for market vs command economies? How do people advocating command economies still get elected? That's because mainstream parties all over Europe - whether it be left or right wing - don't advocate command economies anymore. Neoliberalism won. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
Regarding immigration and cultural topics I'd put the democrats left of almost any European party. Economics isn't the only topic on this planet. | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On January 13 2014 15:13 Danglars wrote: The conducted poll surveyed 1020 adults and gave results with a +/-4 percentage points at 95% confidence levels. Reading this and giving the DURR "all 500 people don't like obamacare" is tantamount to dismissing the science of any poll that doesn't spend billions and trillions interviewing everybody or some kind of majority of the population. For all the charges leveled against the dumb tea party, there's the occasional liberal enlightened fellow that doesn't understand statistics or polling. You can explain why it doesn't prove anything. You can do this without also trying to invalidate every poll of its kind ever made on any topic. no yeah, you sure proved your point...(still not sure what it was actually) not really | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8541 Posts
On January 13 2014 15:23 Nyxisto wrote: Regarding immigration and cultural topics I'd put the democrats left of almost any European party. Economics isn't the only topic on this planet. Ever heard of the green party? Also, don't forget that historically the US is a country of immigrants. And economics is the most important topic of our time - for better and for worse. | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
a country described as an unspecified point in some n-dimensional space. a group of people in power controlling it's position, moving it along a seemingly arbitrary path. same group paying lip service to the rest whose discussions are framed in terms of 'left' and 'right'. us politics: mistaking 'left' and 'right' lip service for the actual movement of the point. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Mark Levin (lawyer back in Reagan admin, now on radio ~8.5mil audience) captures it. For those out there that can hear 12 minutes of audio with an open mind, that's about the most compact indictment of the "Give GOP the Senate and the Presidency to fix the country" from a tea party position. + Show Spoiler [couple excerpts] + We're tired of seeing people like Boehner surrender. No Child Left Behind wtf? Majority in House and Senate? They drove up the debt by over 4 trillion. They federalized more local education. They expanded medicare which its own trustees said was unsustainable. $152 bil in their own stimulus subsidizing GM and Chrysler. The party that stands for nothing, particularly fiscal sanity, but whose establishment only wants 75% of the same the Democrats do, and wants it to arrive 50% slower. It is better to elect men and women that own it, and won't beat about the edges until it resembles the same 5 years later. To borrow a phrase describing our Senate Minority Leader; he would rather rule in Hell than serve in Heaven. A senate GOP minority with himself in charge than a Senate GOP majority with himself retired. He attacks the Senate Conservatives Fund with his own National Republican Senatorial Committee. Get fighting or get out. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On January 13 2014 15:11 JonnyBNoHo wrote: In Europe left/right only signifies preference for market vs command economies? How do people advocating command economies still get elected? It is a scale, and I used command economy as a shortcut, meaning any influence of the state on economic activity. So social-democrat parties are more to the left not because they are advocating command economy, but because they advocate more state power over the economy, like bigger safety net etc. And yes in some countries communist parties are still pretty strong. As for the left and right divide in social arena it is more or less distinct from economic division as due to there being more parties you can have centrist (econ) conservative(social) party (most christian parties), liberal parties (both econ and social), social-democrats parties - centre-left (econ) liberal(social), communists, and all kinds of other parties. Depends on the country. In my country term left vs right means economic scale. Both major parties were socially liberal as religion plays nearly no part in political discourse. Some other European countries have right defined as Christian centrist party and left as social-democrats ... | ||
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Introvert
United States4773 Posts
On January 13 2014 16:05 Danglars wrote: Republicans will war with their base for at least a little longer. It's very trendy. Yet, the base eventually exhausts of voting for a party actively opposing their interests, the same interests they pledged to share during election season. They'll shed support from within. They'll lose some of the moderates (declared oh so Electable by the Dems) to some radicals in the primaries, if not this cycle then the next cycle. Mark Levin (lawyer back in Reagan admin, now on radio ~8.5mil audience) captures it. For those out there that can hear 12 minutes of audio with an open mind, that's about the most compact indictment of the "Give GOP the Senate and the Presidency to fix the country" from a tea party position. + Show Spoiler [couple excerpts] + We're tired of seeing people like Boehner surrender. No Child Left Behind wtf? Majority in House and Senate? They drove up the debt by over 4 trillion. They federalized more local education. They expanded medicare which its own trustees said was unsustainable. $152 bil in their own stimulus subsidizing GM and Chrysler. The party that stands for nothing, particularly fiscal sanity, but whose establishment only wants 75% of the same the Democrats do, and wants it to arrive 50% slower. It is better to elect men and women that own it, and won't beat about the edges until it resembles the same 5 years later. To borrow a phrase describing our Senate Minority Leader; he would rather rule in Hell than serve in Heaven. A senate GOP minority with himself in charge than a Senate GOP majority with himself retired. He attacks the Senate Conservatives Fund with his own National Republican Senatorial Committee. Get fighting or get out. Eh, many people in this thread are in the Lock-Step party (the Democrats). It's funny to see people complain about having only two options and yet jump with glee to see the Tea Party battle the Establishment and "destroy the party." It makes me think that they care more about party than country, idk. This poll is great, more and more republicans are disgusted with their "leadership" and may take more and more action. I love seeing these results. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On January 13 2014 15:23 Nyxisto wrote: Regarding immigration and cultural topics I'd put the democrats left of almost any European party. Economics isn't the only topic on this planet. In what way are they more liberal on cultural topics ? You have to just look at any left-wing party in northern Europe to find counter-example. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10727 Posts
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On January 13 2014 15:11 JonnyBNoHo wrote: In Europe left/right only signifies preference for market vs command economies? How do people advocating command economies still get elected? Because thank god we have less Jonny than in the US. | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
That being said, the US and its protectionnism... | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6222 Posts
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HellRoxYa
Sweden1614 Posts
On January 13 2014 22:10 RvB wrote: I wouldn't call the Democrats right wing at all they would be a mid party I'd say. ANd yes Jonny people still vote for communists here. The populist left party in NL got 15 out of 150 seats and was the 3rd biggest in the election together with the populist right party from Wilders. They are pretty far to the right of the centre by European standards. Even more so by Swedish/Nordic standards - although becoming less and less so due to almost 8 years of the right bloc running the country. The disgust I feel when I think about how the entire Swedish political spectra has slowly shifted to the right. It's so easy to portray things with the values of personal freedom. Even if everyone will be worse off when the pillars of our good society are slowly torn down bit by bit. I'm sidetracking pretty hard here though. The point is that even though we're moving to the right, the Democrats aren't even represented politically by any party in Sweden (ie. they are more right than our right parties). And the Republicans just seem insane. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On January 13 2014 17:40 mcc wrote: In what way are they more liberal on cultural topics ? You have to just look at any left-wing party in northern Europe to find counter-example. LGBT- rights for example, or drug policy (nowadays). Most bigger European left wing/ "social democratic" parties are pretty conservative on those topics because they got their fair share of European "stick up your ass" - traditionalism. | ||
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