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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On June 06 2017 23:48 Doodsmack wrote: Thought this was a good one...
The problem with these articles is that they are premised on "hacking the election," which is an intentionally bullshit conflation of literally hacking the vote and using hacking methods to conduct opposition research.
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The White House’s Russia investigation “war room” may have been killed before the battle.
Just days before former FBI Director James Comey’s Senate testimony about his firing, President Donald Trump decided that all inquiries related to the scandals engulfing his administration should be handled by his outside lawyer in New York instead of by a team based inside the White House, according to four advisers close to Trump.
The so-called war room, similar to a Clinton administration crisis operation created to deal with Monica Lewinsky-related inquiries, was taking shape as of last week, with plans for two former campaign aides to take over rapid response on Russia questions, according to a person with knowledge of the conversations.
Former deputy campaign manager David Bossie was being considered to join the West Wing in a senior position. Corey Lewandowski, a former campaign manager who was fired in June 2016, was scouting office space in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building last week for a White House team.
The president decided that Bossie and Lewandowski would be “more valuable on the outside than on the inside fighting back against the Russia narrative specifically,” said a person with knowledge of the conversations.
One White House official said no final decision had been made, while a second said that the administration will have no direct involvement in responding to the Russia investigation.
“I am not going to comment on a bunch of stories based [sic] rumors,” deputy press secretary Sarah Sanders said in a statement.
Bossie and Lewandowski did not respond to requests for comment.
While the Clinton White House integrated lawyers into a larger rapid-response operation, the Trump team has so far relegated all inquiries related to the Russia scandal to Trump’s longtime attorney in New York Marc Kasowitz.
There’s still debate over whether Kasowitz will be aided by an outside public relations team to handle media inquiries. Bossie and Lewandowski may assist in that effort to defend the president from the outside, according to the person with knowledge of the conversations.
The president’s senior aides — and the president himself — were never able to reach an agreement on how a war room would function and who Bossie and Lewandowski would report to inside the White House. Trump senior adviser and son-in-law Jared Kushner, who moved his own press aide into the White House last month and has worked with Trump communications adviser Hope Hicks for years, objected to outsourcing media inquiries to anybody else, according to a White House adviser.
One of the White House officials raised concerns about both Bossie’s and Lewandowski’s strong personalities and their ability to work cohesively with a larger team. Chief strategist Steve Bannon reached out to a handful of the president’s outside allies to ask whether they would be able to work, in particular, with Lewandowski, a divisive figure during the campaign.
Source
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On June 06 2017 13:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2017 13:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 06 2017 09:25 Nevuk wrote:On June 06 2017 09:22 xDaunt wrote:On June 06 2017 07:56 NewSunshine wrote:On June 06 2017 07:47 Plansix wrote:On June 06 2017 07:45 NewSunshine wrote:On June 06 2017 07:36 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
But at least the Saudis are condemning Qatar. /s But will they donate it to the government as promised? Or were they only going to do that if they got caught? I mean, with all the money Trump collects by making Mar a Lago his White House, would it really surprise? In other news, charges are apparently being pressed against the NSA leaker, who has an interesting name. Good, lock her ass up. Also, how old is she? I'm guessing that she is a millennial. She's 25 and also an air force veteran. Reality Winner. What a name. While she didn't seem to have the most basic understanding of how to leak if she wanted to, it's not looking good for whoever at The Intercept who couldn't have done much more if their intention was to out their source. The Intercept has to come out soon with an explanation or they'll never get a leak again (and that's pretty much their bread and butter).
I'm sort of confused here at how much The Intercept actually did wrong, or more specifically how much it mattered. I doubt Reality was like, "Oh hey by the way only 6 people have printed this document" (or that she knew) so the second The Intercept goes public with the leak or shows it to someone to verify it's pretty easy to put the pieces together. The mistakes on The Intercept's ends just seem like they turned a weeks long investigation to a very short one.
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On June 07 2017 00:42 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2017 13:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 06 2017 13:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 06 2017 09:25 Nevuk wrote:On June 06 2017 09:22 xDaunt wrote:On June 06 2017 07:56 NewSunshine wrote:On June 06 2017 07:47 Plansix wrote:On June 06 2017 07:45 NewSunshine wrote:But at least the Saudis are condemning Qatar. /s But will they donate it to the government as promised? Or were they only going to do that if they got caught? I mean, with all the money Trump collects by making Mar a Lago his White House, would it really surprise? In other news, charges are apparently being pressed against the NSA leaker, who has an interesting name. https://twitter.com/CaitJGibson/status/871840440412254212 Good, lock her ass up. Also, how old is she? I'm guessing that she is a millennial. She's 25 and also an air force veteran. Reality Winner. What a name. While she didn't seem to have the most basic understanding of how to leak if she wanted to, it's not looking good for whoever at The Intercept who couldn't have done much more if their intention was to out their source. The Intercept has to come out soon with an explanation or they'll never get a leak again (and that's pretty much their bread and butter). I'm sort of confused here at how much The Intercept actually did wrong. I doubt Reality was like, "Oh hey by the way only 6 people have printed this document" (or that she knew) so the second The Intercept goes public with the leak or shows it to someone to verify it's pretty easy to put the pieces together. I’m also not sure. What they did seems deeply stupid at face value, but I don’t know how reporters confirm leaked information is legit. Maybe they have to turn over reporting numbers or other information. And without knowing the content of the email on her work PC, but that part seems deeply stupid and easily avoided.
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On June 07 2017 00:46 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 00:42 Logo wrote:On June 06 2017 13:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 06 2017 13:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 06 2017 09:25 Nevuk wrote:On June 06 2017 09:22 xDaunt wrote:On June 06 2017 07:56 NewSunshine wrote:On June 06 2017 07:47 Plansix wrote:On June 06 2017 07:45 NewSunshine wrote:But at least the Saudis are condemning Qatar. /s But will they donate it to the government as promised? Or were they only going to do that if they got caught? I mean, with all the money Trump collects by making Mar a Lago his White House, would it really surprise? In other news, charges are apparently being pressed against the NSA leaker, who has an interesting name. https://twitter.com/CaitJGibson/status/871840440412254212 Good, lock her ass up. Also, how old is she? I'm guessing that she is a millennial. She's 25 and also an air force veteran. Reality Winner. What a name. While she didn't seem to have the most basic understanding of how to leak if she wanted to, it's not looking good for whoever at The Intercept who couldn't have done much more if their intention was to out their source. The Intercept has to come out soon with an explanation or they'll never get a leak again (and that's pretty much their bread and butter). I'm sort of confused here at how much The Intercept actually did wrong. I doubt Reality was like, "Oh hey by the way only 6 people have printed this document" (or that she knew) so the second The Intercept goes public with the leak or shows it to someone to verify it's pretty easy to put the pieces together. I’m also not sure. What they did seems deeply stupid at face value, but I don’t know how reporters confirm leaked information is legit. Maybe they have to turn over reporting numbers or other information. And without knowing the content of the email on her work PC, but that part seems deeply stupid and easily avoided.
This was the most detailed part of it I could find where The Intercept made an avoidable mistake: http://blog.erratasec.com/2017/06/how-intercept-outed-reality-winner.html
But yeah again they knew 6 people printed the document only and that's a pretty small space to explore.
Basically though it seems like they should have manually typed up a copy of the document then provided that for verification or something? But in this day and age it's a tough call, people are so skeptical of anonymous sources you really need to show something concrete.
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London's Khan asks the British government to cancel Trump visit. So close to the election and pressure on both sides.
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Canada13379 Posts
Honestly, if she sent a classified document out from her work email address directly to the media source ... thats probably way easier to find.
Also just because someone prints a document doesn't mean they're the ones who leaked it. All they have to do is shred it, then say "yeah boss I have it right he -- omg its gone! Where'd it go!? FUCK!"
Then sure you might get in trouble or fired for mishandling a document, but they can't prove a legal case against you to put you in jail for 10 years.
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On June 07 2017 00:48 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 00:46 Plansix wrote:On June 07 2017 00:42 Logo wrote:On June 06 2017 13:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 06 2017 13:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 06 2017 09:25 Nevuk wrote:On June 06 2017 09:22 xDaunt wrote:On June 06 2017 07:56 NewSunshine wrote:On June 06 2017 07:47 Plansix wrote:On June 06 2017 07:45 NewSunshine wrote: [quote] But at least the Saudis are condemning Qatar. /s But will they donate it to the government as promised? Or were they only going to do that if they got caught? I mean, with all the money Trump collects by making Mar a Lago his White House, would it really surprise? In other news, charges are apparently being pressed against the NSA leaker, who has an interesting name. https://twitter.com/CaitJGibson/status/871840440412254212 Good, lock her ass up. Also, how old is she? I'm guessing that she is a millennial. She's 25 and also an air force veteran. Reality Winner. What a name. While she didn't seem to have the most basic understanding of how to leak if she wanted to, it's not looking good for whoever at The Intercept who couldn't have done much more if their intention was to out their source. The Intercept has to come out soon with an explanation or they'll never get a leak again (and that's pretty much their bread and butter). I'm sort of confused here at how much The Intercept actually did wrong. I doubt Reality was like, "Oh hey by the way only 6 people have printed this document" (or that she knew) so the second The Intercept goes public with the leak or shows it to someone to verify it's pretty easy to put the pieces together. I’m also not sure. What they did seems deeply stupid at face value, but I don’t know how reporters confirm leaked information is legit. Maybe they have to turn over reporting numbers or other information. And without knowing the content of the email on her work PC, but that part seems deeply stupid and easily avoided. This was the most detailed part of it I could find where The Intercept made an avoidable mistake: http://blog.erratasec.com/2017/06/how-intercept-outed-reality-winner.htmlBut yeah again they knew 6 people printed the document only and that's a pretty small space to explore. Basically though it seems like they should have manually typed up a copy of the document then provided that for verification or something? But in this day and age it's a tough call, people are so skeptical of anonymous sources you really need to show something concrete. From my understanding of how reporters confirm anonymous sources, this is the exact thing that they do. They release some amount of information to have someone confirm if it is legit or faked. It isn’t sustainable to straight up deny everything, because reporters will find something. I just don’t know if asking for the reporting number is something that a reporter wouldn’t normally hand out. Since it was mailed, the reporter couldn’t contact the source to make sure what information would put them at risk. I see some reporters saying that Winner should have removed the reporting number if she knew that it could be traced back to her.
People like to crap on anonymous sources, but they are the bread and butter of reporting. It is just a question if you trust the publication to do their due diligence.
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On June 07 2017 00:55 ZeromuS wrote: Honestly, if she sent a classified document out from her work email address directly to the media source ... thats probably way easier to find.
Also just because someone prints a document doesn't mean they're the ones who leaked it. All they have to do is shred it, then say "yeah boss I have it right he -- omg its gone! Where'd it go!? FUCK!"
Then sure you might get in trouble or fired for mishandling a document, but they can't prove a legal case against you to put you in jail for 10 years.
Then your boss spends an hour grilling you on why did you print it in the first place when did you shred it.
Yeah but that would require that Reality didn't insecurely e-mail reporters (she did) and as a contractor there's going to be a lot of suspicion on you over the other 5 people who printed the document.
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On June 07 2017 00:48 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 00:46 Plansix wrote:On June 07 2017 00:42 Logo wrote:On June 06 2017 13:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 06 2017 13:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 06 2017 09:25 Nevuk wrote:On June 06 2017 09:22 xDaunt wrote:On June 06 2017 07:56 NewSunshine wrote:On June 06 2017 07:47 Plansix wrote:On June 06 2017 07:45 NewSunshine wrote: [quote] But at least the Saudis are condemning Qatar. /s But will they donate it to the government as promised? Or were they only going to do that if they got caught? I mean, with all the money Trump collects by making Mar a Lago his White House, would it really surprise? In other news, charges are apparently being pressed against the NSA leaker, who has an interesting name. https://twitter.com/CaitJGibson/status/871840440412254212 Good, lock her ass up. Also, how old is she? I'm guessing that she is a millennial. She's 25 and also an air force veteran. Reality Winner. What a name. While she didn't seem to have the most basic understanding of how to leak if she wanted to, it's not looking good for whoever at The Intercept who couldn't have done much more if their intention was to out their source. The Intercept has to come out soon with an explanation or they'll never get a leak again (and that's pretty much their bread and butter). I'm sort of confused here at how much The Intercept actually did wrong. I doubt Reality was like, "Oh hey by the way only 6 people have printed this document" (or that she knew) so the second The Intercept goes public with the leak or shows it to someone to verify it's pretty easy to put the pieces together. I’m also not sure. What they did seems deeply stupid at face value, but I don’t know how reporters confirm leaked information is legit. Maybe they have to turn over reporting numbers or other information. And without knowing the content of the email on her work PC, but that part seems deeply stupid and easily avoided. This was the most detailed part of it I could find where The Intercept made an avoidable mistake: http://blog.erratasec.com/2017/06/how-intercept-outed-reality-winner.htmlBut yeah again they knew 6 people printed the document only and that's a pretty small space to explore. Basically though it seems like they should have manually typed up a copy of the document then provided that for verification or something? But in this day and age it's a tough call, people are so skeptical of anonymous sources you really need to show something concrete. Isn't it just a document regardless of what you do with it? There is no way to verify it except to compare it with the original on the NSA server. What does it matter if you print it out or not? Or change the formatting or font and such?
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On June 07 2017 01:02 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 00:48 Logo wrote:On June 07 2017 00:46 Plansix wrote:On June 07 2017 00:42 Logo wrote:On June 06 2017 13:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 06 2017 13:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 06 2017 09:25 Nevuk wrote:On June 06 2017 09:22 xDaunt wrote:On June 06 2017 07:56 NewSunshine wrote:On June 06 2017 07:47 Plansix wrote: [quote] But will they donate it to the government as promised? Or were they only going to do that if they got caught? I mean, with all the money Trump collects by making Mar a Lago his White House, would it really surprise? In other news, charges are apparently being pressed against the NSA leaker, who has an interesting name. https://twitter.com/CaitJGibson/status/871840440412254212 Good, lock her ass up. Also, how old is she? I'm guessing that she is a millennial. She's 25 and also an air force veteran. Reality Winner. What a name. While she didn't seem to have the most basic understanding of how to leak if she wanted to, it's not looking good for whoever at The Intercept who couldn't have done much more if their intention was to out their source. The Intercept has to come out soon with an explanation or they'll never get a leak again (and that's pretty much their bread and butter). I'm sort of confused here at how much The Intercept actually did wrong. I doubt Reality was like, "Oh hey by the way only 6 people have printed this document" (or that she knew) so the second The Intercept goes public with the leak or shows it to someone to verify it's pretty easy to put the pieces together. I’m also not sure. What they did seems deeply stupid at face value, but I don’t know how reporters confirm leaked information is legit. Maybe they have to turn over reporting numbers or other information. And without knowing the content of the email on her work PC, but that part seems deeply stupid and easily avoided. This was the most detailed part of it I could find where The Intercept made an avoidable mistake: http://blog.erratasec.com/2017/06/how-intercept-outed-reality-winner.htmlBut yeah again they knew 6 people printed the document only and that's a pretty small space to explore. Basically though it seems like they should have manually typed up a copy of the document then provided that for verification or something? But in this day and age it's a tough call, people are so skeptical of anonymous sources you really need to show something concrete. Isn't it just a document regardless of what you do with it? There is no way to verify it except to compare it with the original on the NSA server. What does it matter if you print it out or not?
The printer applied a microdot code specifying what printer it came from and when it was printed. If you scan that document to a pdf and share that then the microdots are still there.
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On June 07 2017 01:03 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 01:02 Grumbels wrote:On June 07 2017 00:48 Logo wrote:On June 07 2017 00:46 Plansix wrote:On June 07 2017 00:42 Logo wrote:On June 06 2017 13:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 06 2017 13:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 06 2017 09:25 Nevuk wrote:On June 06 2017 09:22 xDaunt wrote:On June 06 2017 07:56 NewSunshine wrote:[quote] I mean, with all the money Trump collects by making Mar a Lago his White House, would it really surprise? In other news, charges are apparently being pressed against the NSA leaker, who has an interesting name. https://twitter.com/CaitJGibson/status/871840440412254212 Good, lock her ass up. Also, how old is she? I'm guessing that she is a millennial. She's 25 and also an air force veteran. Reality Winner. What a name. While she didn't seem to have the most basic understanding of how to leak if she wanted to, it's not looking good for whoever at The Intercept who couldn't have done much more if their intention was to out their source. The Intercept has to come out soon with an explanation or they'll never get a leak again (and that's pretty much their bread and butter). I'm sort of confused here at how much The Intercept actually did wrong. I doubt Reality was like, "Oh hey by the way only 6 people have printed this document" (or that she knew) so the second The Intercept goes public with the leak or shows it to someone to verify it's pretty easy to put the pieces together. I’m also not sure. What they did seems deeply stupid at face value, but I don’t know how reporters confirm leaked information is legit. Maybe they have to turn over reporting numbers or other information. And without knowing the content of the email on her work PC, but that part seems deeply stupid and easily avoided. This was the most detailed part of it I could find where The Intercept made an avoidable mistake: http://blog.erratasec.com/2017/06/how-intercept-outed-reality-winner.htmlBut yeah again they knew 6 people printed the document only and that's a pretty small space to explore. Basically though it seems like they should have manually typed up a copy of the document then provided that for verification or something? But in this day and age it's a tough call, people are so skeptical of anonymous sources you really need to show something concrete. Isn't it just a document regardless of what you do with it? There is no way to verify it except to compare it with the original on the NSA server. What does it matter if you print it out or not? The printer applied a microdot code specifying what printer it came from and when it was printed. If you scan that document to a pdf and share that then the microdots are still there. Oh, I see, sorry, I didn't read your article because I had read another one before which missed that information.
In that case I don't understand how The Intercept profiles itself as an investigative journalism endeavor, without having a sound protocol of obscuring the source's digital fingerprints before releasing it to the world. It seems quite negligent, both by Winner (who I guess is just an amateur and can't be blamed) and The Intercept.
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My impression is that she would have been caught within the week or so due to her incompetence with using her work computer. Being caught within the day was definitely the intercept's fault.
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On June 07 2017 01:07 Nevuk wrote: My impression is that she would have been caught within the week or so due to her incompetence with using her work computer. Being caught within the day was definitely the intercept's fault.
Yeah mine too, which is still a big misstep for the Intercept but I feel like everyone saying, "Oh no one is going to leak to the Intercept again!" are overblowing it and/or have ulterior motives (like Wikileaks probably being mad they didn't get the leak).
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If she used her work email, it is as simple as that. She was toast from the moment she used her work email. I wonder if her using her work email made the intercept doubt the validity or something? If she was basically committing legal suicide (can't help but wonder if this was intentional?), then it kind of makes sense.
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On June 07 2017 01:07 Nevuk wrote: My impression is that she would have been caught within the week or so due to her incompetence with using her work computer. Being caught within the day was definitely the intercept's fault. Yeah, if you're going to leak something you might as well commit identity fraud beforehand to secure your safety. The NSA will certainly monitor document look-ups, downloads and work e-mail.
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On June 07 2017 01:10 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 01:07 Nevuk wrote: My impression is that she would have been caught within the week or so due to her incompetence with using her work computer. Being caught within the day was definitely the intercept's fault. Yeah mine too, which is still a big misstep for the Intercept but I feel like everyone saying, "Oh no one is going to leak to the Intercept again!" are overblowing it and/or have ulterior motives (like Wikileaks probably being mad they didn't get the leak). The intercept was pretty bad, most places agree, and its their second time burning a source like this. They're not getting any more leaks from US people.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On June 07 2017 01:14 Mohdoo wrote: If she used her work email, it is as simple as that. She was toast from the moment she used her work email. I wonder if her using her work email made the intercept doubt the validity or something? If she was basically committing legal suicide (can't help but wonder if this was intentional?), then it kind of makes sense. I would generally assume that a XXX@nsa.gov email that isn't spoofed is from a legitimate employee, at the very least.
The story to get busted for, just isn't particularly interesting. The fuck was she thinking?
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On June 06 2017 23:55 Plansix wrote: Trump, breaking down divisions between the parties through sheer force of fear and instability. It also really shows why the USA needs a viable third party and a reform to the voting system. If mainstream Democrats can find common cause with neo-cons, 'moderate' Republicans and center-right politicians in Europe, then they are probably not capable of representing the left on important issues (economy, climate, foreign policy) where left and center diverge. Even France's two-step voting process would be way better than the current one.
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On June 07 2017 01:19 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 01:14 Mohdoo wrote: If she used her work email, it is as simple as that. She was toast from the moment she used her work email. I wonder if her using her work email made the intercept doubt the validity or something? If she was basically committing legal suicide (can't help but wonder if this was intentional?), then it kind of makes sense. I would generally assume that a XXX@nsa.gov email that isn't spoofed is from a legitimate employee, at the very least. The story to get busted for, just isn't particularly interesting. The fuck was she thinking?
Legit email, but coming from a fucking intelligence agency, you'd expect better. Reading about how she changed her name and shit like that, I am going to go with some sort of troubled or mental illness kinda situation. I think she wanted to be caught. As for why, I don't know. But I am going to assume she intended to be caught.
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