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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-02 23:04:38
June 02 2017 23:03 GMT
#154941
Gluttony, as can be expected by a guy who like steak with ketchup.

To be honest though, I don't think anybody takes the 7 sins as a real religious doctrine.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
June 02 2017 23:39 GMT
#154942
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 02 2017 23:51 GMT
#154943
On June 03 2017 07:53 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2017 07:44 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:

The fact that christians voted for a guy that literally pretends to be religious and is pretty much the culmination of sins is still very funny to me.

It's better to have someone apathetic to religious freedom than an ideology and cause that pursues limiting it under such banners as "war on women" or "license to discriminate." I'd rather have someone clueless on the subject (and distrustful of intellectual opinion) than oppositely-aligned people (and Hillary Clinton was just that.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
June 02 2017 23:54 GMT
#154944
The Republican-controlled House Intelligence Committee asked U.S. spy agencies late last year to reveal the names of U.S. individuals or organizations contained in classified intelligence on Russia’s meddling in the 2016 election, engaging in the same practice that President Trump has accused the Obama administration of abusing, current and former officials said.

The chairman of the committee, Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), has since cast the practice of “unmasking” of U.S. individuals and organizations mentioned in classified reports as an abuse of surveillance powers by the outgoing Obama administration.

Trump has argued that investigators should focus their attention on former officials leaking names from intelligence reports, rather than whether the Kremlin coordinated its activities with the Trump campaign, an allegation he has denied. “The big story is the ‘unmasking and surveillance’ of people that took place during the Obama administration,” Trump tweeted Thursday.


www.washingtonpost.com
Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
June 02 2017 23:57 GMT
#154945
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 03 2017 08:39 Doodsmack wrote:
https://twitter.com/philiprucker/status/870747343351664640


Reality show President thinks he is looking for a new Apprentice.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-03 00:25:29
June 03 2017 00:24 GMT
#154946
So Sessions is essentially under FBI investigation now, No? Honestly nithing would make me happier than to see that old neo-confederate pos rot in prison.

Also:

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-03 00:29:01
June 03 2017 00:28 GMT
#154947
On June 03 2017 08:57 Wulfey_LA wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 03 2017 08:39 Doodsmack wrote:
https://twitter.com/philiprucker/status/870747343351664640


Reality show President thinks he is looking for a new Apprentice.


"Let me describe the kind of FBI I want working for me"

On June 03 2017 09:24 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So Sessions is essentially under FBI investigation now, No? Honestly nithing would make me happier than to see that old neo-confederate pos rot in prison.


Same. I want his last days to be in prison.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-03 00:28:52
June 03 2017 00:28 GMT
#154948
oops double
warding
Profile Joined August 2005
Portugal2394 Posts
June 03 2017 00:41 GMT
#154949
I'm late to the electric car debate but it's weird how some aren't able to recognize a simple and recurring pattern in new technology: electric cars are still expensive because of the batteries so they only appeal to a niche; battery prices are in a nice downward trend that will continue; therefore electric cars will become affordable and take over internal combustion because they're superior in every other aspect. Not only are they cleaner and can accelerate fast, but they are much cheaper to maintain. Electric motors are super simple in comparison to internal combustion. And yeah you have to be a Legalordian cynic to not be able to appreciate Elon Musk.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
June 03 2017 00:44 GMT
#154950
On June 03 2017 08:51 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2017 07:53 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On June 03 2017 07:44 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/870693471677329409

The fact that christians voted for a guy that literally pretends to be religious and is pretty much the culmination of sins is still very funny to me.

It's better to have someone apathetic to religious freedom than an ideology and cause that pursues limiting it under such banners as "war on women" or "license to discriminate." I'd rather have someone clueless on the subject (and distrustful of intellectual opinion) than oppositely-aligned people (and Hillary Clinton was just that.

I disagree; religious freedoms, like all freedoms, at times opposes other freedoms, and they must all be balanced.
and religious freedom is still very plentifully free under the Democrats; not like actual true restrictions on religious freedom that have existed in the world.
and someone distrustful of intellectual opinion will not be able to make proper judgments in these matters given how complicated the questions of ethics are.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
June 03 2017 00:47 GMT
#154951
I predict that in a few years, instead of gasoline, our cars will run on the power of hope. Sure is a lot of that stuff around, we could probably use it as a power source.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 03 2017 01:15 GMT
#154952
On June 03 2017 09:44 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2017 08:51 Danglars wrote:
On June 03 2017 07:53 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On June 03 2017 07:44 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/870693471677329409

The fact that christians voted for a guy that literally pretends to be religious and is pretty much the culmination of sins is still very funny to me.

It's better to have someone apathetic to religious freedom than an ideology and cause that pursues limiting it under such banners as "war on women" or "license to discriminate." I'd rather have someone clueless on the subject (and distrustful of intellectual opinion) than oppositely-aligned people (and Hillary Clinton was just that.

I disagree; religious freedoms, like all freedoms, at times opposes other freedoms, and they must all be balanced.
and religious freedom is still very plentifully free under the Democrats; not like actual true restrictions on religious freedom that have existed in the world.
and someone distrustful of intellectual opinion will not be able to make proper judgments in these matters given how complicated the questions of ethics are.

Haha and your perspective to call it "plentifully free" is based on what exactly? I'm actually pretty happy for the reminder; the country dodged a bullet on that Hillary. Ivanka & Co are still advising against it (as seen in softening of religious freedom EO) so there's still a danger. But nothing compared to the Democratic Party nominee with all her campaigns Catholic bigotry and diatribes on how religion had to change. Probably unnoticed by you, to be honest.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3261 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-03 01:22:33
June 03 2017 01:20 GMT
#154953
On June 03 2017 09:47 LegalLord wrote:
I predict that in a few years, instead of gasoline, our cars will run on the power of hope. Sure is a lot of that stuff around, we could probably use it as a power source.

I'd argue it's in pretty short supply actually. Can we run them on anxiety instead?
Edit:
On June 03 2017 09:41 warding wrote:
I'm late to the electric car debate but it's weird how some aren't able to recognize a simple and recurring pattern in new technology: electric cars are still expensive because of the batteries so they only appeal to a niche; battery prices are in a nice downward trend that will continue; therefore electric cars will become affordable and take over internal combustion because they're superior in every other aspect. Not only are they cleaner and can accelerate fast, but they are much cheaper to maintain. Electric motors are super simple in comparison to internal combustion. And yeah you have to be a Legalordian cynic to note be able to appreciate Elon Musk.

LL, how's it feel to have achieved adjective status?
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-03 01:37:50
June 03 2017 01:35 GMT
#154954
On June 03 2017 10:15 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2017 09:44 zlefin wrote:
On June 03 2017 08:51 Danglars wrote:
On June 03 2017 07:53 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On June 03 2017 07:44 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/870693471677329409

The fact that christians voted for a guy that literally pretends to be religious and is pretty much the culmination of sins is still very funny to me.

It's better to have someone apathetic to religious freedom than an ideology and cause that pursues limiting it under such banners as "war on women" or "license to discriminate." I'd rather have someone clueless on the subject (and distrustful of intellectual opinion) than oppositely-aligned people (and Hillary Clinton was just that.

I disagree; religious freedoms, like all freedoms, at times opposes other freedoms, and they must all be balanced.
and religious freedom is still very plentifully free under the Democrats; not like actual true restrictions on religious freedom that have existed in the world.
and someone distrustful of intellectual opinion will not be able to make proper judgments in these matters given how complicated the questions of ethics are.

Haha and your perspective to call it "plentifully free" is based on what exactly? I'm actually pretty happy for the reminder; the country dodged a bullet on that Hillary. Ivanka & Co are still advising against it (as seen in softening of religious freedom EO) so there's still a danger. But nothing compared to the Democratic Party nominee with all her campaigns Catholic bigotry and diatribes on how religion had to change. Probably unnoticed by you, to be honest.

based on the reality of religious oppression throughout history, and the vastly overblown claims of religious oppression the republicans have put forth. The notion that religious freedom is actually under threat is unfounded; you'd need to provide an actual foundation to establish that claim. Especially given that the first amendment would and still does entirely apply, and is backed by the democrats; their interpretation of it may be a bit different from yours, but it's well within the boundaries of reasonable interpretations, and really isn't all that different.
catholic bigotry is certainly not so good; neither was the sizeable amounts of bigotry coming from the trump campaign. it's not a position to claim superiority on given what trump stood for.
dodging a bullet only to get hit by a cannon isn't an improvement.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 03 2017 01:51 GMT
#154955
On June 03 2017 10:35 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2017 10:15 Danglars wrote:
On June 03 2017 09:44 zlefin wrote:
On June 03 2017 08:51 Danglars wrote:
On June 03 2017 07:53 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On June 03 2017 07:44 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/870693471677329409

The fact that christians voted for a guy that literally pretends to be religious and is pretty much the culmination of sins is still very funny to me.

It's better to have someone apathetic to religious freedom than an ideology and cause that pursues limiting it under such banners as "war on women" or "license to discriminate." I'd rather have someone clueless on the subject (and distrustful of intellectual opinion) than oppositely-aligned people (and Hillary Clinton was just that.

I disagree; religious freedoms, like all freedoms, at times opposes other freedoms, and they must all be balanced.
and religious freedom is still very plentifully free under the Democrats; not like actual true restrictions on religious freedom that have existed in the world.
and someone distrustful of intellectual opinion will not be able to make proper judgments in these matters given how complicated the questions of ethics are.

Haha and your perspective to call it "plentifully free" is based on what exactly? I'm actually pretty happy for the reminder; the country dodged a bullet on that Hillary. Ivanka & Co are still advising against it (as seen in softening of religious freedom EO) so there's still a danger. But nothing compared to the Democratic Party nominee with all her campaigns Catholic bigotry and diatribes on how religion had to change. Probably unnoticed by you, to be honest.

based on the reality of religious oppression throughout history, and the vastly overblown claims of religious oppression the republicans have put forth. The notion that religious freedom is actually under threat is unfounded; you'd need to provide an actual foundation to establish that claim. Especially given that the first amendment would and still does entirely apply, and is backed by the democrats; their interpretation of it may be a bit different from yours, but it's well within the boundaries of reasonable interpretations, and really isn't all that different.
catholic bigotry is certainly not so good; neither was the sizeable amounts of bigotry coming from the trump campaign. it's not a position to claim superiority on given what trump stood for.
dodging a bullet only to get hit by a cannon isn't an improvement.

No cannon here, Trump's objectively better on religious freedoms. Thank God Hillary didn't drag it over the finish line. Also, I'd like to point out that when I linked an article entitled "Hillary Clinton is a threat to religious liberty," I did actually expect responders to read it if they thought all claims are unfounded. I want to believe you have something other than belief that the Democrats aren't that bad, but I still haven't seen anything other than your personal judgement and partisan choice at play here.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
June 03 2017 01:55 GMT
#154956
On June 03 2017 08:01 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2017 07:56 Mohdoo wrote:
On June 03 2017 07:53 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On June 03 2017 07:44 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/870693471677329409

The fact that christians voted for a guy that literally pretends to be religious and is pretty much the culmination of sins is still very funny to me.


Interesting observation. Which sins aren't represented by Trump?

His temperance with regard to substances is one. That's more of a big deal in Islam than Christianity but take virtues where you can get them. The rest though, not so much.

I'm not even sure about that. There were some debates there where he couldn't keep himself in check, and was awfully sweaty. Actually, it would explain a lot of his ostensibly nonsensical shit, i.e. the gargantuan task of transcribing him in interviews.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-03 02:22:35
June 03 2017 01:57 GMT
#154957
On June 03 2017 10:51 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2017 10:35 zlefin wrote:
On June 03 2017 10:15 Danglars wrote:
On June 03 2017 09:44 zlefin wrote:
On June 03 2017 08:51 Danglars wrote:
On June 03 2017 07:53 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On June 03 2017 07:44 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/870693471677329409

The fact that christians voted for a guy that literally pretends to be religious and is pretty much the culmination of sins is still very funny to me.

It's better to have someone apathetic to religious freedom than an ideology and cause that pursues limiting it under such banners as "war on women" or "license to discriminate." I'd rather have someone clueless on the subject (and distrustful of intellectual opinion) than oppositely-aligned people (and Hillary Clinton was just that.

I disagree; religious freedoms, like all freedoms, at times opposes other freedoms, and they must all be balanced.
and religious freedom is still very plentifully free under the Democrats; not like actual true restrictions on religious freedom that have existed in the world.
and someone distrustful of intellectual opinion will not be able to make proper judgments in these matters given how complicated the questions of ethics are.

Haha and your perspective to call it "plentifully free" is based on what exactly? I'm actually pretty happy for the reminder; the country dodged a bullet on that Hillary. Ivanka & Co are still advising against it (as seen in softening of religious freedom EO) so there's still a danger. But nothing compared to the Democratic Party nominee with all her campaigns Catholic bigotry and diatribes on how religion had to change. Probably unnoticed by you, to be honest.

based on the reality of religious oppression throughout history, and the vastly overblown claims of religious oppression the republicans have put forth. The notion that religious freedom is actually under threat is unfounded; you'd need to provide an actual foundation to establish that claim. Especially given that the first amendment would and still does entirely apply, and is backed by the democrats; their interpretation of it may be a bit different from yours, but it's well within the boundaries of reasonable interpretations, and really isn't all that different.
catholic bigotry is certainly not so good; neither was the sizeable amounts of bigotry coming from the trump campaign. it's not a position to claim superiority on given what trump stood for.
dodging a bullet only to get hit by a cannon isn't an improvement.

No cannon here, Trump's objectively better on religious freedoms. Thank God Hillary didn't drag it over the finish line. Also, I'd like to point out that when I linked an article entitled "Hillary Clinton is a threat to religious liberty," I did actually expect responders to read it if they thought all claims are unfounded. I want to believe you have something other than belief that the Democrats aren't that bad, but I still haven't seen anything other than your personal judgement and partisan choice at play here.

oh, it's a cannon; that's a fact. not on religoius freedoms, but in general; it's only your partisanship that prevents you from admitting that.
apologies, I didn't notice the article in your text; not sure how I missed it.
oh, you didn't mark ti clearly as a link; so it doesn't appear as an independent link, but only a tiny couple of words in slight blue.
I'll finish reading it; but the opening marks it pretty clearly as a trash opinion piece with no real merit from the perspective of ethical philosophy.
it's also clearly about opinions; not about actual oppression, but about discussion/dialogue/trying to change teachings.
that's not oppression, that's discussion.
so no, you just used citation that does not establish your thesis of oppression in the slightest.
you were simply wrong.
that's not a threat ot religious liberty, it's simply trying to change religions for the better through discussion and action of an entirely legal and proper nature.
and it furthermore relies on a very limited selection of quotes to reach that conclusion; rather than some proper broad analysis.
citing a single, and that idiotic, opinion piece, doesn't do much to establish your position. it also heavily uses quotes that aren't even from clinton; but private backroom discussions by aides.

show me something about ACTUAL religious oppression or violating the first amendment; not mere talk about encouraging religions to reform that doesn't even use the power of government for that.
it's like you haven't seen what ACTUAL oppression looks like if you call that oppression.

especially since Trump said similar (and in fact probably worse) things about Islam, another religion. where's your religious freedom there when it comes to Islam?
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
June 03 2017 02:10 GMT
#154958
It's a good thing if certain religiously-inspired beliefs are declining. From beliefs held in ultra-conservative Islam to the idea that some type of godly intervention will solve the climate change problem, or that protesting at funerals is an appropriate thing to do.
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23493 Posts
June 03 2017 02:19 GMT
#154959
On June 03 2017 11:10 a_flayer wrote:
It's a good thing if certain religiously-inspired beliefs are declining. From beliefs held in ultra-conservative Islam to the idea that some type of godly intervention will solve the climate change problem, or that protesting at funerals is an appropriate thing to do.


I think it's fair to say that people who believe in divine intervention as national policy are dangerous enough to be committed. They are quite literally a threat to themselves and others.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
June 03 2017 02:25 GMT
#154960
On June 03 2017 10:51 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2017 10:35 zlefin wrote:
On June 03 2017 10:15 Danglars wrote:
On June 03 2017 09:44 zlefin wrote:
On June 03 2017 08:51 Danglars wrote:
On June 03 2017 07:53 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On June 03 2017 07:44 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/870693471677329409

The fact that christians voted for a guy that literally pretends to be religious and is pretty much the culmination of sins is still very funny to me.

It's better to have someone apathetic to religious freedom than an ideology and cause that pursues limiting it under such banners as "war on women" or "license to discriminate." I'd rather have someone clueless on the subject (and distrustful of intellectual opinion) than oppositely-aligned people (and Hillary Clinton was just that.

I disagree; religious freedoms, like all freedoms, at times opposes other freedoms, and they must all be balanced.
and religious freedom is still very plentifully free under the Democrats; not like actual true restrictions on religious freedom that have existed in the world.
and someone distrustful of intellectual opinion will not be able to make proper judgments in these matters given how complicated the questions of ethics are.

Haha and your perspective to call it "plentifully free" is based on what exactly? I'm actually pretty happy for the reminder; the country dodged a bullet on that Hillary. Ivanka & Co are still advising against it (as seen in softening of religious freedom EO) so there's still a danger. But nothing compared to the Democratic Party nominee with all her campaigns Catholic bigotry and diatribes on how religion had to change. Probably unnoticed by you, to be honest.

based on the reality of religious oppression throughout history, and the vastly overblown claims of religious oppression the republicans have put forth. The notion that religious freedom is actually under threat is unfounded; you'd need to provide an actual foundation to establish that claim. Especially given that the first amendment would and still does entirely apply, and is backed by the democrats; their interpretation of it may be a bit different from yours, but it's well within the boundaries of reasonable interpretations, and really isn't all that different.
catholic bigotry is certainly not so good; neither was the sizeable amounts of bigotry coming from the trump campaign. it's not a position to claim superiority on given what trump stood for.
dodging a bullet only to get hit by a cannon isn't an improvement.

No cannon here, Trump's objectively better on religious freedoms. Thank God Hillary didn't drag it over the finish line. Also, I'd like to point out that when I linked an article entitled "Hillary Clinton is a threat to religious liberty," I did actually expect responders to read it if they thought all claims are unfounded. I want to believe you have something other than belief that the Democrats aren't that bad, but I still haven't seen anything other than your personal judgement and partisan choice at play here.


You believe Hillary's campaign possessed "Catholic bigotry" but any any claims of bigotry against Trump are just regressive leftism? And you're talking about someone else's personal judgment and partisan choice. Things aren't squaring up here.
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