US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7604

On May 23 2017 00:12 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Guys, you do realise that in other 1st world countries, working conditions are similar? That US healthcare is mindblowing expensive has nothing to do with working conditions. For example in UK, for a 35 year old, private healthcare costs about $40 per month, and for full cover, including cancer care and all medical treatments it costs about 150 USD a month. They can only ask for your age and if you are a smoker. I'm guessing the private costs are similar to every other rich European country for private healthcare. I wonder how much is that comparatively to USA?

Oh and don't bother with the whole "USA has the best doctors in the world". It is wholly unsubstantiated and it must take a special kind of mind to beleive that other countries has worse training and standards than the US for their doctors and nurses. In fact I am quite curious how such a phrase came into being as I see it repeated many times in short order.

On May 23 2017 00:26 ShoCkeyy wrote:
You do realize that a lot of doctors from other countries obtain their Doctorates from the U.S then just go back to their country? An American MD is recognized in the EU, now imagine how many foreign students we have that come for medical learning, but don't really stay.

On May 23 2017 00:25 Plansix wrote:
The US also has some amazingly poor states with few doctors or sufficient services. The purely capitalist view of how much medical training should cost is never going to solve the problem for states that have weaker economies.

On May 23 2017 00:37 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
It's probably true that USA undertakes a large proportion of medical research, but I beleive Europe undertakes a similar amount of medical research. I don't know what the figures will be adjusted for population though: it may as well be Germany or Switzerland or Britain that which has more medical research and medicine per population. In any case it would be a tenous to link medical research with doctors. As for new procedures, I haven't heard or seen any analysis for it so it may be true. It's an interesting phrase, but ultimately baseless.

On May 23 2017 00:50 Plansix wrote:

I am not convinced that medical research is so valuable that is needs to be funded on the back of unsustainable healthcare costs for the nation. There might be another solution to that problem that doesn’t involve people avoiding the doctor due to fear of medical costs. That argument has always seemed weak at best.

On May 23 2017 00:50 Plansix wrote:

I am not convinced that medical research is so valuable that is needs to be funded on the back of unsustainable healthcare costs for the nation. There might be another solution to that problem that doesn’t involve people avoiding the doctor due to fear of medical costs. That argument has always seemed weak at best.

On May 23 2017 00:36 ticklishmusic wrote:


and unfortunately rural practice is often considered bottom of the barrel for grads. lower pay, stuck in the middle of nowhere, etc. the US being so friggin' big and diverse is just another problem that is unique to our healthcare system.

On May 23 2017 01:06 Sadist wrote:




I agree the research arguement seems like complete BS to me. Even if it were somewhat true, when did we as Americans agree to subsidize the rest of the worlds R&D? You coild argue by electing our politicians but that would be hollow. Something that significant to me would need some type of whole sale bill or refferendum.

On May 23 2017 00:50 Plansix wrote:

I am not convinced that medical research is so valuable that is needs to be funded on the back of unsustainable healthcare costs for the nation. There might be another solution to that problem that doesn’t involve people avoiding the doctor due to fear of medical costs. That argument has always seemed weak at best.

On May 23 2017 01:27 Dangermousecatdog wrote:

To be honest I am not sure why some people are linking medical research with quality healthcare or healthcare costs.

On May 23 2017 01:18 ZeaL. wrote:


Actually this depends on the specialty. I know that for some surgical specialties and dentistry, states like ny ca (and Utah for dentistry) have low salaries due to oversaturation. As an ophthalmologist it's much easier to find well paying jobs on places like Kentucky or Idaho plus much lower cost of living. But then you have to live there.

On May 23 2017 01:27 Dangermousecatdog wrote:

To be honest I am not sure why some people are linking medical research with quality healthcare or healthcare costs.

On May 23 2017 01:02 TheTenthDoc wrote:


Capitalism-driven healthcare research is also pretty poor as an incentive for certain types of medical treatments (any orphan disease, antibiotics, disease curves, etc.). Especially when people want to have their cake and eat it too by only paying a markup on the literal cost of production rather than paying in accordance to avoided healthcare costs, like with the hepatitis C drugs that were far far better than existing treatment and save millions over someone's life.

It is of course absolutely awful as an incentive in a pure capitalist system with no intellectual property protections, of course (which should go without saying).

On May 23 2017 01:27 Dangermousecatdog wrote:

To be honest I am not sure why some people are linking medical research with quality healthcare or healthcare costs.

On May 23 2017 01:50 Logo wrote:


It's worth noting that government grant directed system does not necessarily alleviate this burden either, it's still easier on the academic side of things if you're going after the trendy areas of life sciences (like cancer). Basically it just seems flat out important for someone to be continuously introducing incentives to go after areas of research that are less lucrative (either directly with money or by prestige) but important to society.

In general I encourage people to learn a lot about smaller biotech companies and stuff; I think there's often a tendency for people to just like overestimate the ease and health of these companies. The problems with the industry run deeper than people having to pay way too much for medicine.

On May 23 2017 01:46 ticklishmusic wrote:


that's my point



you were the one who linked the two by commenting on the US not having "the best" doctors, which is a separate issue from the US having quality/ affordable care.

As White Supremacists Push Onto Campuses, Schools Wrestle With Response

There's been an unprecedented spike in white supremacist activity on campuses across the U.S. since the election and college students and administrators are struggling to figure out how to respond.

Posters at the University of Texas at Arlington last month implored students to "report any and all illegal aliens. America is a white nation." Also last month, at the University of Pennsylvania flyers blared "Imagine a Muslim-free America."

Hate watch groups have tracked 150 incidents of white supremacist propaganda on campuses since the fall. Even just a year ago, it was such a rarity no one was even counting.

"Our time has come," roared white supremacist Richard Spencer to students at Auburn University last month. It was one of a growing number of campus visits made by white nationalist leaders looking to connect with students personally.

"This is a new phenomenon that's very dangerous," said Oren Segal, head of the Anti-Defamation League's Center on Extremism. He says white supremacists, making a push for the mainstream, often try to lure students with more opaque slogans, like "Serve your people," and "Our destiny is ours."

"They don't necessarily shave their heads and wear swastika armbands where hatred is easily seen," said Segal. "And what they're hoping is that people will maybe be interested because it's not so in-your-face."

'Publicity is great'

One of those groups, Identity Evropa, describes itself on its website as a "fraternity," though one limited to people of "European non-Semitic descent." Applicants whose heritage is uncertain have been directed to undergo DNA testing.

Founder Nathan Damigo says his current recruitment effort, #ProjectSiege, will get even more aggressive next semester.

"We're going to be setting up tables, and handing out thumb drives with videos," he said. "We're going to have booklets and stickers and so on."

Damigo, a 30-year-old student and Iraq war vet, became well-known in alt-right circles last month, when he punched a female protester in Berkeley. He says it was self-defense. He got into white nationalism by reading books by the likes of former Klan leader David Duke while serving a five-year prison sentence for armed robbery.

Damigo says he needs to "change hearts and minds" of the next generation to realize his ultimate goal of a white-only space for whites in the U.S. "Forced diversity and multiculturalism" he said, is "unnatural" and whites need territory "that is ours ... where we can be ourselves."

Damigo dismisses those who call him a racist, saying it's a "cheap strategy to undermine legitimate European interests." But he concedes the controversy has been good for him.

"I mean sure, publicity is great," he said. "We found last year that all you had to do is put up some flyers and you'd get millions of dollars of coverage. So this is amazing."

His flyers have been posted at campuses from the University of California, Berkeley to the University of Massachusetts Boston, a heavily minority campus.

"I looked at these images, and I was incensed because it was such an attack on our students," said Joseph Brown, a UMass political science professor. "They were trying to be provocative; in Internet terms, they troll. They're trying to make themselves seem a lot bigger than they are."

Tony McAleer knows the strategy all too well, having spent 15 years in a white supremacist skinhead group before having a change of heart in the late 1990s. "Groups like this thrive on conflict," he said.

"I became an attention whore," said McAleer, who eventually left the movement and founded a group called Life After Hate to try to combat white supremacists groups.

"Every effort that was done to stymie what I was doing [gave me more] publicity and more recruits," he said. "It becomes this dance. You have to be careful not to feed the beast, and not to give them exactly what they seek."

Assessing the right response

The increased presence of these groups has left schools and students trying to walk an almost impossibly fine line as they struggle to determine the right response to white supremacists.

When white supremacist leaflets showed up at Purdue University, administrators said they didn't want to take the bait from "a minuscule fringe group [seeking] attention it does not deserve." Instead, they issued a short general statement about the white supremacists' views being "obviously inconsistent with the values and principles we believe in here at Purdue." But students were offended they didn't offer a more explicit condemnation and launched a sit-in.

At a recent meeting of campus activists at UMass Boston, students were split on the right response. Student Katharine O'Donnell didn't even want to talk about white supremacists. Not only does it give them what they want, she says, but it also serves to normalize them. And ultimately, she says, it would only distract students from their efforts to fight institutional racism.

"Responding to a poster is in my opinion very damaging rather than these greater issues that are causing problems every day," she said.

But other students pushed back, equally reluctant to let such hateful messages go unanswered.

"We have to let people know that this is not OK," said Gabriella Cartagena. "We have to do something about this. We can't just pretend they don't exist and continue to push them under the rug."

UMass Boston Chief Diversity Officer Georgianna Melendez says it's "a hard hair to split," especially for a university that tries to balance its commitment to free speech and open academic debate with its responsibility to make all students feel welcome and safe.

She says the white supremacist posters were ultimately removed from campus because they lacked required permission, but not because of their content.

"Everyone has a right to their own beliefs," she says. "We didn't take a position on their message except to say that we understand it's harmful to some members of our community, and we can't just let that go."

Like many schools, Melendez says UMass now has a kind of hate incident SWAT team ready to counter hateful messages and counsel hurt students. It includes an early alert system, a counter messaging response team and counselors on call.

So far, hate watch groups say white supremacists' efforts on campuses don't seem to be paying off. They say there is no evidence that the groups are gaining traction or members, despite their claims to the contrary. But Mcaleer, the former white supremacist, cautions it's not an easy thing to measure since most activity is online, not on the streets.

"It's all virtual," McAleer said. "It's like an iceberg. You see a bit of it at the top, and I don't think anybody has really measured how deep and how pervasive this group of disaffected kids is, and what exactly they're doing online."