US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7301

On April 08 2017 05:21 LegalLord wrote:

That is true. Bernie probably wouldn't have been the solution to the problems we had. But, you know, I'd rather have deadlock than what we have right now. A lack of consensus is better than a Republican consensus - Hillary-led or Trump-led.

On April 08 2017 05:25 Plansix wrote:

GH, those opinion polls don’t matter. The majority of Americans don’t want a complete ban on abortion, want background checks and think we should fund education better. Republicans still get elected.

Once single payer is passed, there is a long and ongoing fight to make it work. Just like the ACA. You need to be in power for term after term.

I don’t really understand your argument. You just seem to shut down every time someone tries to have some discussion with you about how it’s hard to govern. No one really disagrees with you, but you just fight anyways for some reason.

1. American Jobs Act. In the minority, Republicans still shut down President Obama’s 2011 jobs plan. It would have imposed a 5.6-percent tax on all income over $1 million to pay for new “stimulus” spending by the government. The Democrats’ majority couldn’t pass the measure, which failed 50-49.

2. Buffett Rule. Championed by Senate Democrats and the White House in 2012, the “Buffett Rule” sought to levy a minimum 30 percent tax on wealthier Americans. Forty-five Republicans voted not to end debate, keeping the legislation from the floor and from becoming law.

3. Cap and Trade. Democrats controlled both houses of Congress in 2010, but their “cap-and-trade” legislation stalled in the Senate. Republicans filibustered sweeping restrictions on the use of fossil fuels aimed at cutting carbon emissions and the measure failed to reach Obama’s desk

4. DREAM Act. Cheered by President Obama and passed by the House, the DREAM Act was on its way to becoming law in 2010. The legislation would have blazed a path to citizenship for millions of children brought here by illegal immigrants. But a filibuster-wielding Republican minority delayed a final vote, killing the bill.

5. Card Check. The 2009 “card check” bill would have made it easier for labor unions to organize and stay in power by making union elections by secret ballot obsolete. Instead, employers would be forced to recognize a union once organizers collected a majority of employee signatures. After the Republican minority threatened to filibuster, Democrats scrapped the proposal.

6. Emergency Senior Citizens Relief Act. Elder Americans would have collected an extra $250 in tax credits under the cost of living adjustment in Social Security, or COLA. A Republican filibuster took the fizz out of the proposal and the bill failed, 53 to 45.

7. Gun Control. The gun control legislation sponsored by Sens. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., and Pat Toomey, R-Pa., backfired in the Senate after Republicans filibustered the measure. The bipartisan bill would have significantly expanded background checks in gun sales but fell shy of the 60-vote threshold to end debate, receiving only 54 votes.

8. Immigration Reform. Toward the end of his term, President George W. Bush pushed for a complete overhaul of the nation’s immigration system in 2007. The measure would have bolstered border security but granted citizenship to millions of illegal immigrants. Republican senators jumped ship and a motion to end debate failed, 53 to 46.

9. Minimum Wage. Republicans launched a filibuster in 2014 to derail a Democrat proposal that would have mandated an across-the-board federal minimum wage of $10.10.

10. The “Public Option.” Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., joined Republicans threatening to filibuster Majority Leader Harry Reid’s health care bill in 2009. The proposed legislation included a “public option” akin to Medicare but was defeated before it could come to a vote.

11. Prolonging Bush Tax Cuts. In 2010, Senate Democrats tried twice to extend George W. Bush’s tax cuts only to middle-class Americans. Higher tax brackets would have returned to Clinton-era rates under their plan. Republican filibusters slammed the door on anything short of across-the-board cuts.

12. Paycheck Fairness Act. Republicans blocked the 2014 Paycheck Fairness Act four separate times. The bill would have leveled harsher penalties for discrimination and required employers to account for any pay gap between male and female employees. The bill never made it to a final vote, though, failing 52 to 40.

When the Electoral College elevated Donald Trump to the presidency, it conferred on him the awesome life-and-death powers that attend the office. It was inevitable that President Trump would use those powers sooner or later. Now he has. For the effects on the region, I refer you to the powerful piece by The Atlantic’s Andrew Exum. I’m concerned here with the effects on the U.S. political system. Seven seem most immediately relevant.

Trump’s Words Mean Nothing

If there was any one foreign policy position that Donald Trump stressed above all others, it was opposition to the use of force in Syria. Time has helpfully compiled Trump’s tweets on the subject dating back to 2013. For example:

These were not the idle thoughts of a distracted mind. Promises of no war in Syria were central to Donald Trump’s anti-Hillary Clinton messaging. Take, for example, to his interview with Reuters on October 26, 2016.

“What we should do is focus on ISIS. We should not be focusing on Syria," said Trump, as he dined on fried eggs and sausage at his Trump National Doral golf resort. "You’re going to end up in World War Three over Syria if we listen to Hillary Clinton. You’re not fighting Syria any more, you’re fighting Syria, Russia and Iran, all right?”
That message—a vote for Clinton is a vote for World War III beginning in Syria—was pounded home by surrogates and by Trump’s social-media troll army.

On April 08 2017 05:38 Plansix wrote:
GH, you know they couldn’t filibuster the ISP change right? The GOP tacked it onto a resolution that didn’t need to be debated, so no filibuster.

If you want to harp on the democrats sucking, that is cool. That wasn’t really what I was talking about. I was talking about a sustained long term and productive stay in congress. You seemed to have skipped beyond that to argue with some other person.

On April 08 2017 05:44 GreenHorizons wrote:


Fair enough on the ISP, but you may have missed this conversation partially grew out of my refuting that the Democrats run on things they can accomplish.

Your suggestion that they can't run on medicare for all because it's hard just doesn't make any sense. The reason Democrats lost those 1000+ seats is because they don't do what they say they are there to do, start doing it, like supporting medicare for all, and getting it passed, and you'll still be there to keep it going.

On April 08 2017 05:44 GreenHorizons wrote:


Fair enough on the ISP, but you may have missed this conversation partially grew out of my refuting that the Democrats run on things they can accomplish.

Your suggestion that they can't run on medicare for all because it's hard just doesn't make any sense.

On April 08 2017 05:51 Plansix wrote:

GH, when we said promising people the moon, did you think we were talking about single payer?

And the ISP thing, I don’t know the source. I thought it would die in the senate, but someone in the thread said it didn’t need to get past the filibuster.

On April 08 2017 04:57 GreenHorizons wrote:



Ah, well single payer isn't a unicorn or "the moon", it's (or some variation) how many modern countries run their healthcare system. Fundamentally what matters is establishing that the government views healthcare as a right, but the Democratic party has to catch up with Coal mining Trump supporters in West Virginia on that one.

On April 08 2017 06:11 Plansix wrote:
Ok, people were not talking about single payer. They were talking about promises like “bringing back unskilled labor and steel jobs”.

Here are the details of the ISP bill. No filibuster possible, it isn't a full law.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/115-2017/s94

You can’t have single payer by just passing it and then getting voted out. Otherwise it is under constant threat of being removed. Or worse, imploding under poor management of the other party.

You need to win more than one election, so you can’t promise the moon and then not deliver.

On April 08 2017 06:25 GreenHorizons wrote:




So there, by "the moon", you meant "bringing back unskilled labor and steel jobs"?

That doesn't seem to fit the context, but if that's what you meant I'm sure you can understand the confusion.

I admit I don't know the legislative procedure well enough to fully understand why a bill not being a "full law" means there's no point at which it could be filibustered?

On April 08 2017 05:16 LegalLord wrote:

The support of Hillary Clinton included quite a long delusion train. This was basically a necessity - the arguments in favor of her, without any Trump to complain about, are lacking at best. The establishment folk were fully behind her, but that was hardly a good thing. In response to most problems the "never mind that, we HAVE TO stop TRUMP because he is dangerous." Unfortunately it was true that Trump was every bit as bad as his opponents said - shitty at leadership on top of being unreliable and liable to change his mind - but unfortunately that description doesn't apply to Trump alone.

On April 08 2017 07:33 LegalLord wrote:
I swear, there's a nontrivial portion of the base that is still trying to say, "See? You really wish you had gotten behind Hillary now, don't you? Told you so!" Rather than exploring the genuine reasons for the widespread loss (not just at the presidential level) like they should.

No, idiot. There was a reason why people opposed your ungodly electable loser and her most loyal underlings. And it's not because they were racist sexist xenophobic Russians.

On April 08 2017 07:52 LegalLord wrote:

DWS, who did nothing wrong and took one for the team, is also part of the Democrats' presidential bench. Same with Donna Brazile. Lot of good candidates to challenge the racist sexist xenophobic Russia-lover Trump and his goon James Comey in 2020.