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On April 08 2017 04:11 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 03:57 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2017 03:56 Mohdoo wrote:On April 08 2017 03:39 LightSpectra wrote:On April 08 2017 02:46 Plansix wrote:
The Democrats should run on jobs and election reform. Make a plan to get people jobs and make elections not shit in the future. Just stick to a simple focus, rather than be the party that is fighting everything at once. I dunno if reducing to a two-plank platform is wise, but I would say that "keep it simple, stupid" and having a short manifesto (like New Labour in the UK) would do them wonders. This is what democrats have needed for a long time. Need big, emotionally charged, grand promises that hit a certain spot and are perhaps not entirely genuine or realistic. I vaguely remember Democrats shitting all over that candidate. Donald Trump's promises were moreso in the "delusional" range than "grandiose". The Democrats' manifesto could look something like this (don't get an apoplectic fit over it, it's just a sample I'm typing spur-of-the-moment): 1. Establishment of a new Public Works Administration to give temporary employment to all people in search of a job. 2. Immediate Congressional debate and vote on the "Medicare for All" Act. 3. A ban on any elected, federal politician from taking donations from corporations worth more than $1m. 4. Complete federal legalization of marijuana for both recreational and medicinal purposes. The taxes earned from marijuana will go to ensuring that all military and police veterans can receive affordable housing and pensions. 5. A student loans forgiveness/refinancing program. Optimistic, but not to the point of unrealism; something to rope in both the old and the young, centrists and progressives. Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 04:01 Plansix wrote:On April 08 2017 03:39 LightSpectra wrote:On April 08 2017 02:46 Plansix wrote:
The Democrats should run on jobs and election reform. Make a plan to get people jobs and make elections not shit in the future. Just stick to a simple focus, rather than be the party that is fighting everything at once. I dunno if reducing to a two-plank platform is wise, but I would say that "keep it simple, stupid" and having a short manifesto (like New Labour in the UK) would do them wonders. Le t the national platform be two planks and let the politicians focus on regional politics. Get away from the one size fits all platform. Trying to convince middle America to care about diversity isn’t a winning plan. Police violence isn’t a subject that people in Utah care about. But everyone wants less money in elections and jobs. No, I agree that "identity politics" has been a cancer to the Democrats. But the key voting base for them is the unemployed bloc that went to Trump out of desperation. Those people don't give a shit about electoral reform.
Oh god no, I didn't mean Trump, I meant Bernie. Your platform is more or less what I agree with. Fiddle with the details, but that platform easily has 60%+ support.
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Not only did Trump break his campaign promise, he also carried out an act of aggression; the "supreme crime above all crimes", as established at the Nuremberg trials.
And he also told the Russians, who told the Syrians, so I doubt anything really essential was hit. They will be operational again soon. Yes, they won't use chemical weapons. But for sure tomorrow 70 more innocents will die.
So now again we have this concept that strong militaries can go out and punish others as they see fit. Yes, surely Assad committed a huge crime, and there can be little doubt he was responsible. But this solves nothing.
In the US, a child dies every other day because of a firearm accident. Does that give Syria the right to attack an US military target to 'punish' the US for their immoral and deadly decision to allow guns? I am sure there are better examples to point out the hypocrisy and the double standards. This just opens up the door for more Russian, Saudi, Israeli and Turkish aggression.
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On April 08 2017 04:11 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 03:57 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2017 03:56 Mohdoo wrote:On April 08 2017 03:39 LightSpectra wrote:On April 08 2017 02:46 Plansix wrote:
The Democrats should run on jobs and election reform. Make a plan to get people jobs and make elections not shit in the future. Just stick to a simple focus, rather than be the party that is fighting everything at once. I dunno if reducing to a two-plank platform is wise, but I would say that "keep it simple, stupid" and having a short manifesto (like New Labour in the UK) would do them wonders. This is what democrats have needed for a long time. Need big, emotionally charged, grand promises that hit a certain spot and are perhaps not entirely genuine or realistic. I vaguely remember Democrats shitting all over that candidate. Donald Trump's promises were moreso in the "delusional" range than "grandiose". The Democrats' manifesto could look something like this (don't get an apoplectic fit over it, it's just a sample I'm typing spur-of-the-moment): 1. Establishment of a new Public Works Administration to give temporary employment to all people in search of a job. 2. Immediate Congressional debate and vote on the "Medicare for All" Act. 3. A ban on any elected, federal politician from taking donations from corporations worth more than $1m. 4. Complete federal legalization of marijuana for both recreational and medicinal purposes. The taxes earned from marijuana will go to ensuring that all military and police veterans can receive affordable housing and pensions. 5. A student loans forgiveness/refinancing program. Optimistic, but not to the point of unrealism; something to rope in both the old and the young, centrists and progressives. Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 04:01 Plansix wrote:On April 08 2017 03:39 LightSpectra wrote:On April 08 2017 02:46 Plansix wrote:
The Democrats should run on jobs and election reform. Make a plan to get people jobs and make elections not shit in the future. Just stick to a simple focus, rather than be the party that is fighting everything at once. I dunno if reducing to a two-plank platform is wise, but I would say that "keep it simple, stupid" and having a short manifesto (like New Labour in the UK) would do them wonders. Le t the national platform be two planks and let the politicians focus on regional politics. Get away from the one size fits all platform. Trying to convince middle America to care about diversity isn’t a winning plan. Police violence isn’t a subject that people in Utah care about. But everyone wants less money in elections and jobs. No, I agree that "identity politics" has been a cancer to the Democrats. But the key voting base for them is the unemployed bloc that went to Trump out of desperation. Those people don't give a shit about electoral reform.
It is mostly messaging, rather than identity politics. How do you communicate that you care about voting rights in NC on a national level? How do you address the numerous problems with police in different cities across America on the national stage? If you gloss over those issues on the national stage, how to you convince the people who care about those problems that you do?
It is a hard needle to thread. More engagement on the local level could be a solution.
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On April 08 2017 02:46 Plansix wrote:
The Democrats should run on jobs and election reform. Make a plan to get people jobs and make elections not shit in the future. Just stick to a simple focus, rather than be the party that is fighting everything at once.
They do run on jobs but the problem is that the run on realistic outlooks and not on the fairy tales of Trump, who promised to turn back automation and globalization.
The problem Democrats have is that they run on a platform they can accomplish. Not on a rosy dream that will never become reality.
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United States42017 Posts
On April 08 2017 04:32 farvacola wrote:In case anyone cared, as of 2015, Trump owns stock in Raytheon, the company that manufactures the missiles he sent to Syria yesterday.
But it's a blind trust so it's fine. You see he's going to be President and Ivanka is going to handle his hotels and that's what a blind trust is.
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On April 08 2017 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 02:46 Plansix wrote:
The Democrats should run on jobs and election reform. Make a plan to get people jobs and make elections not shit in the future. Just stick to a simple focus, rather than be the party that is fighting everything at once. They do run on jobs but the problem is that the run on realistic outlooks and not on the fairy tales of Trump, who promised to turn back automation and globalization. The problem Democrats have is that they run on a platform they can accomplish. Not on a rosy dream that will never become reality.
You sure about that?
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On April 08 2017 04:39 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 08 2017 02:46 Plansix wrote:
The Democrats should run on jobs and election reform. Make a plan to get people jobs and make elections not shit in the future. Just stick to a simple focus, rather than be the party that is fighting everything at once. They do run on jobs but the problem is that the run on realistic outlooks and not on the fairy tales of Trump, who promised to turn back automation and globalization. The problem Democrats have is that they run on a platform they can accomplish. Not on a rosy dream that will never become reality. You sure about that?
Anyone who doesn't support Hillary Clinton is just an irrational fool who isn't pragmatic and wants something that can't be done. She's simultaneously the progressive who gets things done and the moderate who will be electable enough to win. Wow!
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United States42017 Posts
On April 08 2017 04:39 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 08 2017 02:46 Plansix wrote:
The Democrats should run on jobs and election reform. Make a plan to get people jobs and make elections not shit in the future. Just stick to a simple focus, rather than be the party that is fighting everything at once. They do run on jobs but the problem is that the run on realistic outlooks and not on the fairy tales of Trump, who promised to turn back automation and globalization. The problem Democrats have is that they run on a platform they can accomplish. Not on a rosy dream that will never become reality. You sure about that?
Pretty sure. Compare the Democrat platform of actual policies to help actual people to the Trump platform of "things your uncle says at Thanksgiving after too much PBR". Hell, compare their tax plans. Hillary wanted to raise taxes on the very richest people to cover increased spending, Trump wanted to massively cut taxes on the very richest people to cover increased spending. No shit Trump managed to dominate the idiot demographic.
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I assume this is accurate
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On April 08 2017 04:39 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 08 2017 02:46 Plansix wrote:
The Democrats should run on jobs and election reform. Make a plan to get people jobs and make elections not shit in the future. Just stick to a simple focus, rather than be the party that is fighting everything at once. They do run on jobs but the problem is that the run on realistic outlooks and not on the fairy tales of Trump, who promised to turn back automation and globalization. The problem Democrats have is that they run on a platform they can accomplish. Not on a rosy dream that will never become reality. You sure about that?
If you want to retain power for longer than a term, you need to deliver. Things like single payer will not work without a sustained presence in congress.
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On April 08 2017 04:42 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 04:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2017 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 08 2017 02:46 Plansix wrote:
The Democrats should run on jobs and election reform. Make a plan to get people jobs and make elections not shit in the future. Just stick to a simple focus, rather than be the party that is fighting everything at once. They do run on jobs but the problem is that the run on realistic outlooks and not on the fairy tales of Trump, who promised to turn back automation and globalization. The problem Democrats have is that they run on a platform they can accomplish. Not on a rosy dream that will never become reality. You sure about that? Pretty sure. Compare the Democrat platform of actual policies to help actual people to the Trump platform of "things your uncle says at Thanksgiving after too much PBR". Hell, compare their tax plans. Hillary wanted to raise taxes on the very richest people to cover increased spending, Trump wanted to massively cut taxes on the very richest people to cover increased spending. No shit Trump managed to dominate the idiot demographic.
Yeah, because raising taxes on the richest people was totally going to happen if she got elected. I mean their promises seem more practical/realistic, but they haven't exactly been accomplishing the things they run on either.
Hillary's policy on Syria would be to ground the airforce, how do you think we would do that?
On April 08 2017 04:47 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 04:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2017 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 08 2017 02:46 Plansix wrote:
The Democrats should run on jobs and election reform. Make a plan to get people jobs and make elections not shit in the future. Just stick to a simple focus, rather than be the party that is fighting everything at once. They do run on jobs but the problem is that the run on realistic outlooks and not on the fairy tales of Trump, who promised to turn back automation and globalization. The problem Democrats have is that they run on a platform they can accomplish. Not on a rosy dream that will never become reality. You sure about that? If you want to retain power for longer than a term, you need to deliver. Things like single payer will not work without a sustained presence in congress.
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
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On April 08 2017 04:42 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 04:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2017 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 08 2017 02:46 Plansix wrote:
The Democrats should run on jobs and election reform. Make a plan to get people jobs and make elections not shit in the future. Just stick to a simple focus, rather than be the party that is fighting everything at once. They do run on jobs but the problem is that the run on realistic outlooks and not on the fairy tales of Trump, who promised to turn back automation and globalization. The problem Democrats have is that they run on a platform they can accomplish. Not on a rosy dream that will never become reality. You sure about that? Anyone who doesn't support Hillary Clinton is just an irrational fool who isn't pragmatic and wants something that can't be done. She's simultaneously the progressive who gets things done and the moderate who will be electable enough to win. Wow!
Electability, we get it. You can now go back to explaining to the people in the EU thread how they can’t get along because they didn’t integrate under Russian rule.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Hillary Clinton running her mouth is the best way for us to realize that the stuff that Trump fucks up, we probably were going to have fucked up anyways but it would now be someone else's fault.
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On April 08 2017 04:49 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 04:42 KwarK wrote:On April 08 2017 04:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2017 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 08 2017 02:46 Plansix wrote:
The Democrats should run on jobs and election reform. Make a plan to get people jobs and make elections not shit in the future. Just stick to a simple focus, rather than be the party that is fighting everything at once. They do run on jobs but the problem is that the run on realistic outlooks and not on the fairy tales of Trump, who promised to turn back automation and globalization. The problem Democrats have is that they run on a platform they can accomplish. Not on a rosy dream that will never become reality. You sure about that? Pretty sure. Compare the Democrat platform of actual policies to help actual people to the Trump platform of "things your uncle says at Thanksgiving after too much PBR". Hell, compare their tax plans. Hillary wanted to raise taxes on the very richest people to cover increased spending, Trump wanted to massively cut taxes on the very richest people to cover increased spending. No shit Trump managed to dominate the idiot demographic. Yeah, because raising taxes on the richest people was totally going to happen if she got elected. I mean their promises seem more practical/realistic, but they haven't exactly been accomplishing the things they run on either. Hillary's policy on Syria would be to ground the airforce, how do you think we would do that? Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 04:47 Plansix wrote:On April 08 2017 04:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2017 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 08 2017 02:46 Plansix wrote:
The Democrats should run on jobs and election reform. Make a plan to get people jobs and make elections not shit in the future. Just stick to a simple focus, rather than be the party that is fighting everything at once. They do run on jobs but the problem is that the run on realistic outlooks and not on the fairy tales of Trump, who promised to turn back automation and globalization. The problem Democrats have is that they run on a platform they can accomplish. Not on a rosy dream that will never become reality. You sure about that? If you want to retain power for longer than a term, you need to deliver. Things like single payer will not work without a sustained presence in congress. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
You can’t have single payer by just passing it and then getting voted out. Otherwise it is under constant threat of being removed. Or worse, imploding under poor management of the other party.
You need to win more than one election, so you can’t promise the moon and then not deliver.
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On April 08 2017 04:53 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 04:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2017 04:42 KwarK wrote:On April 08 2017 04:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2017 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 08 2017 02:46 Plansix wrote:
The Democrats should run on jobs and election reform. Make a plan to get people jobs and make elections not shit in the future. Just stick to a simple focus, rather than be the party that is fighting everything at once. They do run on jobs but the problem is that the run on realistic outlooks and not on the fairy tales of Trump, who promised to turn back automation and globalization. The problem Democrats have is that they run on a platform they can accomplish. Not on a rosy dream that will never become reality. You sure about that? Pretty sure. Compare the Democrat platform of actual policies to help actual people to the Trump platform of "things your uncle says at Thanksgiving after too much PBR". Hell, compare their tax plans. Hillary wanted to raise taxes on the very richest people to cover increased spending, Trump wanted to massively cut taxes on the very richest people to cover increased spending. No shit Trump managed to dominate the idiot demographic. Yeah, because raising taxes on the richest people was totally going to happen if she got elected. I mean their promises seem more practical/realistic, but they haven't exactly been accomplishing the things they run on either. Hillary's policy on Syria would be to ground the airforce, how do you think we would do that? On April 08 2017 04:47 Plansix wrote:On April 08 2017 04:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2017 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 08 2017 02:46 Plansix wrote:
The Democrats should run on jobs and election reform. Make a plan to get people jobs and make elections not shit in the future. Just stick to a simple focus, rather than be the party that is fighting everything at once. They do run on jobs but the problem is that the run on realistic outlooks and not on the fairy tales of Trump, who promised to turn back automation and globalization. The problem Democrats have is that they run on a platform they can accomplish. Not on a rosy dream that will never become reality. You sure about that? If you want to retain power for longer than a term, you need to deliver. Things like single payer will not work without a sustained presence in congress. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. You can’t have single payer by just passing it and then getting voted out. Otherwise it is under constant threat of being removed. Or worse, imploding under poor management of the other party. You need to win more than one election, so you can’t promise the moon and then not deliver.
Ah, well single payer isn't a unicorn or "the moon", it's (or some variation) how many modern countries run their healthcare system. Fundamentally what matters is establishing that the government views healthcare as a right, but the Democratic party has to catch up with Coal mining Trump supporters in West Virginia on that one.
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If anyone's seen a good list covering which politicians have flip-flopped on Syria (i.e. opposed the Obama request for Syrian strikes, but are supporting Trump's strikes, or vice versa) I'd be interested in reading it.
Seems like a good example case to look for people being partisan and changing their mind based on party affiliation rather than the underlying scenario.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On April 08 2017 04:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 04:42 LegalLord wrote:On April 08 2017 04:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2017 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 08 2017 02:46 Plansix wrote:
The Democrats should run on jobs and election reform. Make a plan to get people jobs and make elections not shit in the future. Just stick to a simple focus, rather than be the party that is fighting everything at once. They do run on jobs but the problem is that the run on realistic outlooks and not on the fairy tales of Trump, who promised to turn back automation and globalization. The problem Democrats have is that they run on a platform they can accomplish. Not on a rosy dream that will never become reality. You sure about that? Anyone who doesn't support Hillary Clinton is just an irrational fool who isn't pragmatic and wants something that can't be done. She's simultaneously the progressive who gets things done and the moderate who will be electable enough to win. Wow! Electability, we get it. You can now go back to explaining to the people in the EU thread how they can’t get along because they didn’t integrate under Russian rule.
It's becoming increasingly clear that the Trump victory has led to a descent into madness for you - and probably many others. Your logic circuits are evidently completely fried. You can, of course, take solace in the fact that Hillary Clinton expressed support for Trump's missile strike. He's coming back to reality.
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Milo had turned on Trump over the Syrian airstrikes. Some other alt right people seem to be upset too.
In an exclusive statement to Mediaite, Yiannopoulos said Trump’s sudden foreign adventurism was “not why people voted for Daddy.”
“I’m as troubled by violence toward innocent children as the next sociopath, but those kids are only growing up to be oppressors of women and murderers of homosexuals anyway,” said Yiannopoulos in an email. “NO MORE POINTLESS FOREIGN WARS. This is not why people voted for Daddy. It’s the opposite of why people voted for him.”
http://www.mediaite.com/online/exclusive-milo-yiannopoulos-breaks-with-trump-on-syria-not-why-people-voted-for-daddy/
These people seem very fickle strangely
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On April 08 2017 04:59 Nevuk wrote:Milo had turned on Trump over the Syrian airstrikes. Some other alt right people seem to be upset too. Show nested quote +In an exclusive statement to Mediaite, Yiannopoulos said Trump’s sudden foreign adventurism was “not why people voted for Daddy.”
“I’m as troubled by violence toward innocent children as the next sociopath, but those kids are only growing up to be oppressors of women and murderers of homosexuals anyway,” said Yiannopoulos in an email. “NO MORE POINTLESS FOREIGN WARS. This is not why people voted for Daddy. It’s the opposite of why people voted for him.” http://www.mediaite.com/online/exclusive-milo-yiannopoulos-breaks-with-trump-on-syria-not-why-people-voted-for-daddy/These people seem very fickle strangely
European populists turned on him too. It's not so much fickle as this is pretty much in opposition to everything they wanted and hoped he would do. And now he showed that he reverted to status quo.
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EPT
