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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
March 31 2017 21:31 GMT
#144781
They don't have much of a choice anymore.
"Assad must go."
"And then what?"
"I don't know but Assad must go, we'll figure that out later."
"That's worked pretty badly in the past though..."
"Yes but Assad must go."

US could have easily removed Assad before Russia even had the opportunity to intervene, back when Russia really would not have been willing to go in. US had the chance, they failed to get the result they wanted because they didn't plan well.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 31 2017 21:33 GMT
#144782
Apparently it was Major Garrett question regarding Flynn's immunity that made this happen.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-31 21:49:40
March 31 2017 21:38 GMT
#144783
if anyone old school is running 2020 its Biden and I don't see that happening. Frankly I support waiting until 2018 and seeing who performs the best. As I've said earlier Franken is likely to just run for reelection which he should win easily based on how well he did in 2014 when Democrats got swamped. Would not surprise me to see a somewhat moderate candidate with Bernie as the VP in 2020. I like Casey a lot but want to wait to see if can get reelected (I'd say pretty good odds considering he's focusing on local issues and trying to push a Miner protection bill, also supports trade renegotiations) (personally I have no problem running someone the NRA likes because they'd be more likely to be able to do something regarding background checks.)

If Bernie was 5 years younger I'd have no problem supporting him for 2020.


still though way way too early.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23486 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-31 21:46:43
March 31 2017 21:45 GMT
#144784
On April 01 2017 06:12 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2017 05:23 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 01 2017 05:18 LegalLord wrote:
On April 01 2017 05:15 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 01 2017 05:12 LegalLord wrote:
Trump might decline to run in 2020 but removing him would be tough.

As for Pence's religious antics... unfortunately not too far out of the norm for American churchgoing Christians. I know too many otherwise sane people who still stand by those customs in ways that the rest of us won't find reasonable.


I mean all they have to do is get him to testify under oath and getting him to perjure himself should be ezpz. He already picked a fight with the people who were least likely to support it and has put all his eggs in the "establishment" basket, apparently forgetting that they worked against him the entire campaign up until they thought they had no other choice.

He needs to convince enough Republicans that waiting out the storm is worse than impeachment. That will be very hard.


I mean many people think of Nixon as being impeached, but he wasn't, he resigned. He was going to be impeached if he didn't, but he resigned instead. It would be something similar for Trump. If Trump left peacefully I'm sure they would give him a cushy landing, which is what Trump was really after besides the "being president" achievement getting unlocked.

As far as I was aware, impeachment is the act of charging a high government official, not the act of removing them from their position.

And Nixon was investigated and charged, was he not?


You're right, I just mean that they resigned and not that they were convicted of what they were impeached for. But still making the same point.

EDIT: On this Pence thing, we all know that if Keith Ellison had the same rule and it was because of Islam people would throw a fit.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 31 2017 21:48 GMT
#144785
Nixon was never charged or impeached. It never got to that level. He resigned and then was pardoned by Ford.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21957 Posts
March 31 2017 22:03 GMT
#144786
On April 01 2017 06:33 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Apparently it was Major Garrett question regarding Flynn's immunity that made this happen.

https://twitter.com/politico/status/847922615960428544

He turned and headed towards the door to leave before the question was asked tho.

It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 31 2017 22:10 GMT
#144787
On April 01 2017 07:03 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2017 06:33 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Apparently it was Major Garrett question regarding Flynn's immunity that made this happen.

https://twitter.com/politico/status/847922615960428544

He turned and headed towards the door to leave before the question was asked tho.



He was asking a 2nd time.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21957 Posts
March 31 2017 22:34 GMT
#144788
On April 01 2017 07:10 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2017 07:03 Gorsameth wrote:
On April 01 2017 06:33 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Apparently it was Major Garrett question regarding Flynn's immunity that made this happen.

https://twitter.com/politico/status/847922615960428544

He turned and headed towards the door to leave before the question was asked tho.



He was asking a 2nd time.

Sigh, yay for twitter and cutting everything so short that there is no context left...

It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-31 22:43:51
March 31 2017 22:40 GMT
#144789



the tweet he's referencing




hopefully Krugman comments on this tomorrow with an explanation of how the economy works. I feel bad for anyone who thinks that actually demonstrates something good for the administration
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
DannyJ
Profile Joined March 2010
United States5110 Posts
March 31 2017 23:14 GMT
#144790
And remember, those numbers for Donald are very much real, unlike the quarter before!
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43255 Posts
March 31 2017 23:31 GMT
#144791
It's not that the numbers are meaningless, it's that the person who was actually in power between Obama's first quarter (8 years ago) and Trump's is Obama. Thanks Obama.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
March 31 2017 23:42 GMT
#144792
All he gets is some consumer confidence, which can be related to expectation of Trump's moves. It also is constrained to attitudes, and is thus accurate and not highly significant. Rest I wouldn't praise.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35162 Posts
April 01 2017 00:11 GMT
#144793
Seems silly to me to add a ~51% more expensive average house for Trump when you're setting up a misleading board in his favor.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-01 00:21:34
April 01 2017 00:20 GMT
#144794
Also considering how they've been criticizing Obama as the worst thing ever for the past 8 years, saying "At least he's not as bad as Obama!" seems like a rather halfhearted endorsement.
Moderator
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
April 01 2017 00:28 GMT
#144795
On April 01 2017 09:20 TheYango wrote:
Also considering how they've been criticizing Obama as the worst thing ever for the past 8 years, saying "At least he's not as bad as Obama!" seems like a rather halfhearted endorsement.

It's more like "Obama is this bad whereas look how good things are under Trump."

Of course, three years from now it might look very different...
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Leporello
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2845 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-01 00:50:30
April 01 2017 00:46 GMT
#144796
On April 01 2017 06:24 Shield wrote:
I'm just reading that the US may support Assad. That might actually be a good idea. I enjoy democracy, but the Middle East is too wild for that. Religion shouldn't be so dominant there for democracy to work.


American foreign-policy is on lockdown. Nothing changes.

Trump has a lot of foreign policy plans, but until (or if) he gets absolution from the Congressional investigation and the intelligence agencies, they're worthless. His hands are tied, and will be for quite a long time.


Which is why I hope he doesn't get impeached. We don't need to impeach Trump to prevent him from destroying our alliances for the sake of being friendly with Eastern despots. Trump's BS with NATO is embarrassing, but that's all it is and all it will ever be.

So, taking that away, what you're left with is a President who is easily manipulated and extremely vain. And this could make opportunity for the Democrats that they'd never get with some patsy like Mike Pence.

Mike Pence and the like will toe the Republican line until they're dead. Trump, there's always that chance that someone could convince him, by playing to his ego, that he'll be a Great Leader if he makes actual effort to work with Democrats to pass decent, working legislation. I'm not saying it will happen, but there is a hope, a hope that doesn't exist with typical Republican leaders. The challenge is getting him away from the poisonous Breitbart crap.

So, as long as Trump knows his Putin-bullshit is dead in the water, I honestly hope he sticks around. Schmucky pervert that he is.

It could even lead to an interesting dynamic where Republicans are the ones trying to get rid of him. Because, if they're smart, they certainly don't want him around in 2020.
Big water
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
April 01 2017 00:57 GMT
#144797
On April 01 2017 06:45 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2017 06:12 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On April 01 2017 05:23 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 01 2017 05:18 LegalLord wrote:
On April 01 2017 05:15 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 01 2017 05:12 LegalLord wrote:
Trump might decline to run in 2020 but removing him would be tough.

As for Pence's religious antics... unfortunately not too far out of the norm for American churchgoing Christians. I know too many otherwise sane people who still stand by those customs in ways that the rest of us won't find reasonable.


I mean all they have to do is get him to testify under oath and getting him to perjure himself should be ezpz. He already picked a fight with the people who were least likely to support it and has put all his eggs in the "establishment" basket, apparently forgetting that they worked against him the entire campaign up until they thought they had no other choice.

He needs to convince enough Republicans that waiting out the storm is worse than impeachment. That will be very hard.


I mean many people think of Nixon as being impeached, but he wasn't, he resigned. He was going to be impeached if he didn't, but he resigned instead. It would be something similar for Trump. If Trump left peacefully I'm sure they would give him a cushy landing, which is what Trump was really after besides the "being president" achievement getting unlocked.

As far as I was aware, impeachment is the act of charging a high government official, not the act of removing them from their position.

And Nixon was investigated and charged, was he not?


EDIT: On this Pence thing, we all know that if Keith Ellison had the same rule and it was because of Islam people would throw a fit.


Such religious purity represents a threat to Western civilization because it goes against our norms of social interaction among all people.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-01 01:23:46
April 01 2017 01:08 GMT
#144798
On April 01 2017 09:46 Leporello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2017 06:24 Shield wrote:
I'm just reading that the US may support Assad. That might actually be a good idea. I enjoy democracy, but the Middle East is too wild for that. Religion shouldn't be so dominant there for democracy to work.


American foreign-policy is on lockdown. Nothing changes.

Trump has a lot of foreign policy plans, but until (or if) he gets absolution from the Congressional investigation and the intelligence agencies, they're worthless. His hands are tied, and will be for quite a long time.


Which is why I hope he doesn't get impeached. We don't need to impeach Trump to prevent him from destroying our alliances for the sake of being friendly with Eastern despots. Trump's BS with NATO is embarrassing, but that's all it is and all it will ever be.

So, taking that away, what you're left with is a President who is easily manipulated and extremely vain. And this could make opportunity for the Democrats that they'd never get with some patsy like Mike Pence.

Mike Pence and the like will toe the Republican line until they're dead. Trump, there's always that chance that someone could convince him, by playing to his ego, that he'll be a Great Leader if he makes actual effort to work with Democrats to pass decent, working legislation. I'm not saying it will happen, but there is a hope, a hope that doesn't exist with typical Republican leaders. The challenge is getting him away from the poisonous Breitbart crap.

So, as long as Trump knows his Putin-bullshit is dead in the water, I honestly hope he sticks around. Schmucky pervert that he is.

It could even lead to an interesting dynamic where Republicans are the ones trying to get rid of him. Because, if they're smart, they certainly don't want him around in 2020.

Tillerson literally said 'I think the status and longer-term status of President Assad will be determined by the Syrian people". I don't know exactly which question he was answering, but according to Kremlin propaganda this means that the US goal in Syria is now essentially limited to defeating ISIS.

Last time I heard John Kerry speak (that was the previous Secretary of State, right?), I think he was still quite openly hostile to Assad and pretty much talking about his unconditional removal and complaining (lying) about how the Russians weren't fighting terrorists in Syria. I'd say that's a bit of a change in tone, at least.
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-01 02:30:23
April 01 2017 01:28 GMT
#144799
On April 01 2017 09:11 Gahlo wrote:
Seems silly to me to add a ~51% more expensive average house for Trump when you're setting up a misleading board in his favor.


because of mortgages and stuff a higher house value is a good thing. or something like that. It's widely used for economic indicators.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
April 01 2017 03:10 GMT
#144800
WikiLeaks’ latest disclosure of CIA cyber-tools reveals a technique used by the agency to hide its digital tracks, potentially blowing the cover on current and past hacking operations aimed at gathering intelligence on terrorists and other foreign targets.

The release Friday of the CIA’s “Marble Framework” comes less than a month after the WikiLeaks dumped onto the Internet a trove of files — dubbed “Vault 7” — that described the type of malware and methods the CIA uses to gain access to targets’ phones, computers and other electronic devices.

[WikiLeaks says it has obtained trove of CIA hacking tools]

“This appears to be one of the most technically damaging leaks ever done by WikiLeaks, as it seems designed to directly disrupt ongoing CIA operations and attribute previous operations,” said Nicholas Weaver, a computer security researcher at the University of California at Berkeley.

The material includes the secret source code of an “obfuscation” technique used by the CIA so its malware can evade detection by anti-virus systems. The technique is used by all professional hackers, whether they work for the National Security Agency, Moscow’s FSB security agency or the Chinese military. But because the code contains a specific algorithm — a digital fingerprint of sorts — it can now be used to identify CIA hacking operations that had previously been detected but not attributed.

“It’s one thing to say, ‘I got hacked.’ It’s another thing to say, ‘I got hacked by the CIA,’ ” said Jake Williams, founder of Rendition InfoSec, a cybersecurity firm. “I suspect this could cause some foreign policy issues down the road.”

Source

Nice 180 from our favorite left-leaning media. Those who would have been so supportive of "transparency" in the past now are the biggest warmest most kindest defenders of the status quo imaginable. It's the party of Clinton.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
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