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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7075

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
March 07 2017 23:26 GMT
#141481
On March 08 2017 08:05 ticklishmusic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 07:10 Nevuk wrote:
On March 08 2017 06:39 ticklishmusic wrote:
On March 08 2017 06:35 Nevuk wrote:
On March 08 2017 06:28 Plansix wrote:
These are the people who have been arguing against section 8 forever, even those is houses so many elderly people. They subscribe to the outdated idea that proving a safety net will create dependence, like some form of addictive drug. And if you ever talk about how parts of the EU solved this problem, they try to paint it as some dystopian nightmare government oversight.

Kentucky is the promised land, where you a free to die in poverty and without health coverage.


Kentucky has the medicaid expansion, so poor people actually have fairly decent health coverage here.


Actually, I'm surprised the GOP didn't pull a Bevin. He just shut down Kynect and forced people to go to healthcare.gov instead and declared victory over Obamacare... even though all he did was make people go to a different URL to find exchange coverage.

Actually, it's a bit more ridiculous than that even. A lot of the benefits sites still use Kynect, they just redirect to it after the initial different URL.

I feel like that's the best that the GOP could do and still claim victories, but I think the insurance companies want the ACA fixed, not just renamed.


ayy lmao, it's even more of a fake victory than i thought. ty for info.

on a serious note, yes, there are things that could improve the ACA for insurers, as well as consumers. they just don't happen to be sneakily eliminating the ACA carve out on deductions for insurance company executives like in the GOP plan.

Yeah, when Bevin rolled out his initial revamp of kynect he wound up sending a bunch of letters to people telling them they were kicked off all benefits (they weren't), the benefits site was totally down for days, and he blamed it on the previous governor purposefully sabotaging his administration (does this sound familiar?). So his solution was apparently to revert all changes except the most nakedly comsetic.

The thing about insurance companies/health care industry is that they aren't like trying to be evil, which a lot of people miss. In the long run, it is probably better for the health care industry if the system is set up in a sustainable way that is less objectionable to most. Lobbying is expensive.

This GOP plan, though, seems like it has a lot in it that no one in the health care industry actually wants or asked for. It strikes me more as a plan that was written purely so they could say they had one, not one that anyone is actually serious about (it could be that Paul Ryan is more delusional than previously thought)
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-07 23:36:44
March 07 2017 23:34 GMT
#141482
On March 08 2017 08:01 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
This is great. Spicer just fumbles some words but it's clear that Trump has 0 information other than the Breitbart he read. I actually feel sorry for Spicer now having to defend Trump for this lol.



Didn't it all start on Infowars or what that bullshit is called? The "real news" stuff? I remember trump praising that weird tinfoil guy a lot.
On track to MA1950A.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
March 07 2017 23:39 GMT
#141483
On March 08 2017 08:34 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 08:01 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
This is great. Spicer just fumbles some words but it's clear that Trump has 0 information other than the Breitbart he read. I actually feel sorry for Spicer now having to defend Trump for this lol.



Didn't it all start on Infowars or what that bullshit is called? The "real news" stuff? I remember trump praising that weird tinfoil guy a lot.


Mark levin don't know who he works for. think just talk radio
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-08 00:03:38
March 07 2017 23:46 GMT
#141484
On March 08 2017 07:35 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 07:21 warding wrote:
On March 08 2017 06:08 Plansix wrote:
I shovel this all back on congress being totally unwilling to regulate anything or give a shit.. These “smart” and everything else are consumer protection nightmares. And the tech industry gives literally zero shits and has not been forced to care at all. The BBC was doing a story about child pornography being shared on Facebook. They brought it to Facebook’s attention and Facebook reported the BBC for distributing child pornography. Uber is a living dumpster fire that has somehow managed to convince themselves that they drivers are their own businesses, but can't set their own prices or pick their passengers.

Like I can’t even.

You're reacting to a story on the government spying on people through smart devices by arguing that the government should regulate smart devices - presumably to protect against government hacking.

Other problems on government regulating on new technology:
- legislation takes time, technology moves fast;
- legislators are prone to lobbying, larger firms push for legislation that favors them;
- regulations are a tax - thus favor incumbents vs new entrants;
- legislators are lawyers, do not understand technology;
- we don't even yet know what the winning standards for IoT will be. Legislation passed now is likely to become obsolete fast;
- legislation is often poorly thought out, creates negative unintended consequences;
- regulation slows down innovation;
- regulations cost money to monitor and enforce;
- companies already have the incentive to protect customers from security/privacy breaches and the spread of child pornography. Not sure how extra regulation would change the already existing incentives.

The government needs a FISA warrant(or some due process) to spy on me and I don’t have a smart TV, so I’m pretty all set. I also do not give a fuck if someone can’t get VC investment because the government is regulating consumer products so random hackers can’t spy on people who just want to buy a TV. I don’t give a shit about anyone getting rich off of some dumb tech product like a smart trashcan or condom. And I could list an endless nubmer of things the tech industry does not understand, including ethics, liability and why long term planning is good.

And regulation is supposed to slow shit down and make people think about the long term prospects of what they are doing. Which is the opposite of the tech industry right now.


The CIA paid for backdoors in applications and didn't report backdoors it found to software maintainers so they could be fixed. The tools they created to misuse these backdoors are now out in the public. Even before it got to wikileaks, it was likely circulating around in an unauthorized manner:
Source
Recently, the CIA lost control of the majority of its hacking arsenal including malware, viruses, trojans, weaponized "zero day" exploits, malware remote control systems and associated documentation. This extraordinary collection, which amounts to more than several hundred million lines of code, gives its possessor the entire hacking capacity of the CIA. The archive appears to have been circulated among former U.S. government hackers and contractors in an unauthorized manner, one of whom has provided WikiLeaks with portions of the archive.

Your government is not making you more secure, FISA is irrelevant. Your government is providing backdoors for the whole world to use. This is exactly why one shouldn't do these kinds of things. You make something with the intent of using for good wholesome purposes and then suddenly its out there and it is ready to be abused. Even if it is not leaked, as long as the bugs exist then they can potentially be abused. You can't really go around using computers, routers, smart phones, etc anymore these days, even if you don't buy "some dumb tech product", and these are all being compromised in the same manner.

Let me reiterate: all branches of the government should always report security bugs to software maintainers so they can be fixed. This is the only way to improve security without making major sacrifices to the current way of doing things online. The only way to keep the evil Russians, the communist Chinese, terrorists and other rogue actors out of our ever-increasingly digitalized lives (and prevent data breaches of any kind).
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-08 00:05:12
March 08 2017 00:01 GMT
#141485
On March 08 2017 06:02 a_flayer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 06:01 LegalLord wrote:
On March 08 2017 05:55 a_flayer wrote:
Look like we've got confirmation that the US buys security bugs in software from vendors.



That will go down well in the international community.

It always amazes me how oblivious the common man is about how our intelligence agencies work. The sheer number of people who were shocked by the Snowden revelations left me scratching my head and wondering how naive the average person is.


For every person that was shocked, there's two who don't care and at least one that thinks its a good thing. The ones who always believed were considered to be tinfoil hat people.


legalord's error here is assuming that people have to be naive to be disillusioned by leaks. belief does not function the way he thinks it does. most public beliefs* actually function through the figure of the subject-supposed-to-believe.

take cases where the parents pretend to believe in santa claus for the kids benefit and the kids pretend to believe in santa claus despite being told at school santa isn't real or seeing their parents put the gifts under the tree. belief in santa claus still functions here, and there is still a disillusionment process when the parents either reveal the truth to the kids or have themselves come to realize that the kids don't believe it anymore. neither party now thinks the other believes and there is a psychic loss of this subject-supposed-to-believe because neither can at least hold onto the hope that the other still believes.

leaks about the IC and spying function in the same way. even members of the public who are technically literate and assume the various ways that the IC is spying on the public can have a belief in the subject-supposed-to-believe. it remains unproven and so belief functions, allowing it to be cognitively partitioned or quarantined. once leaks dispel this fiction belief completely breaks down as the reality becomes clear and there is no way to deny it or even to retain belief in this subject-supposed-to-believe. no one can believe anymore even that others still think the government is acting to preserve privacy rights and it becomes impossible to pretend even only publicly that it does so. this is a real loss.

*edit - "most public beliefs of this type"
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
March 08 2017 00:15 GMT
#141486
Too bad Wikileaks isn't releasing full source code for the CIA leaks at the moment. It sounds like a whole lot of fun to sift through CIA-made exploits for the funsies.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15690 Posts
March 08 2017 00:18 GMT
#141487
On March 08 2017 09:15 LegalLord wrote:
Too bad Wikileaks isn't releasing full source code for the CIA leaks at the moment. It sounds like a whole lot of fun to sift through CIA-made exploits for the funsies.


Would be awesome for people with a deep career in netsec.

My chem-e dream has always been to get a hold of the kinds of devices you could make using electron beam lithography instead of conventional light lithography. With electron beam lithography, it would not be too difficult to make 1nm transistors and other similar devices. A monumental "cost" that wouldn't really matter to the CIA for making ultra specific devices.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 08 2017 00:19 GMT
#141488
On March 08 2017 08:46 a_flayer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 07:35 Plansix wrote:
On March 08 2017 07:21 warding wrote:
On March 08 2017 06:08 Plansix wrote:
I shovel this all back on congress being totally unwilling to regulate anything or give a shit.. These “smart” and everything else are consumer protection nightmares. And the tech industry gives literally zero shits and has not been forced to care at all. The BBC was doing a story about child pornography being shared on Facebook. They brought it to Facebook’s attention and Facebook reported the BBC for distributing child pornography. Uber is a living dumpster fire that has somehow managed to convince themselves that they drivers are their own businesses, but can't set their own prices or pick their passengers.

Like I can’t even.

You're reacting to a story on the government spying on people through smart devices by arguing that the government should regulate smart devices - presumably to protect against government hacking.

Other problems on government regulating on new technology:
- legislation takes time, technology moves fast;
- legislators are prone to lobbying, larger firms push for legislation that favors them;
- regulations are a tax - thus favor incumbents vs new entrants;
- legislators are lawyers, do not understand technology;
- we don't even yet know what the winning standards for IoT will be. Legislation passed now is likely to become obsolete fast;
- legislation is often poorly thought out, creates negative unintended consequences;
- regulation slows down innovation;
- regulations cost money to monitor and enforce;
- companies already have the incentive to protect customers from security/privacy breaches and the spread of child pornography. Not sure how extra regulation would change the already existing incentives.

The government needs a FISA warrant(or some due process) to spy on me and I don’t have a smart TV, so I’m pretty all set. I also do not give a fuck if someone can’t get VC investment because the government is regulating consumer products so random hackers can’t spy on people who just want to buy a TV. I don’t give a shit about anyone getting rich off of some dumb tech product like a smart trashcan or condom. And I could list an endless nubmer of things the tech industry does not understand, including ethics, liability and why long term planning is good.

And regulation is supposed to slow shit down and make people think about the long term prospects of what they are doing. Which is the opposite of the tech industry right now.


The CIA paid for backdoors in applications and didn't report backdoors it found to software maintainers so they could be fixed. The tools they created to misuse these backdoors are now out in the public. Even before it got to wikileaks, it was likely circulating around in an unauthorized manner:
Show nested quote +
Source
Recently, the CIA lost control of the majority of its hacking arsenal including malware, viruses, trojans, weaponized "zero day" exploits, malware remote control systems and associated documentation. This extraordinary collection, which amounts to more than several hundred million lines of code, gives its possessor the entire hacking capacity of the CIA. The archive appears to have been circulated among former U.S. government hackers and contractors in an unauthorized manner, one of whom has provided WikiLeaks with portions of the archive.

Your government is not making you more secure, FISA is irrelevant. Your government is providing backdoors for the whole world to use. This is exactly why one shouldn't do these kinds of things. You make something with the intent of using for good wholesome purposes and then suddenly its out there and it is ready to be abused. Even if it is not leaked, as long as the bugs exist then they can potentially be abused. You can't really go around using computers, routers, smart phones, etc anymore these days, even if you don't buy "some dumb tech product", and these are all being compromised in the same manner.

Let me reiterate: all branches of the government should always report security bugs to software maintainers so they can be fixed. This is the only way to improve security without making major sacrifices to the current way of doing things online. The only way to keep the evil Russians, the communist Chinese, terrorists and other rogue actors out of our ever-increasingly digitalized lives (and prevent data breaches of any kind).

I would have no problem with congress passing a law requiring the CIA to do so if the exploit was not immediately useful in a current operation. And they would still be required to report it after the fact. But in reality that isn't the CIA's role, so they should have another agency handle it.

But in reality I we would prefer better laws and consumer protections when it comes to security along with that law. There is no way the CIA is the only one doing this and the only way we are all safer is if the government is more hands on. Which includes telling the companies of exploits when they are reported, and having it be public after the issue is corrected.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 08 2017 00:25 GMT
#141489
Donald Trump’s former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski approved foreign policy adviser Carter Page’s now-infamous trip to Moscow last summer on the condition that he would not be an official representative of the campaign, according to a former campaign adviser.

A few weeks before he traveled to Moscow to give a July 7 speech, Page asked J.D. Gordon, his supervisor on the campaign’s National Security Advisory Committee, for permission to make the trip, and Gordon strongly advised against it, Gordon, a retired Naval officer, told POLITICO.

Page then emailed Lewandowski and spokeswoman Hope Hicks asking for formal approval, and was told by Lewandowski that he could make the trip, but not as an official representative of the campaign, the former campaign adviser said. The adviser spoke on the condition of anonymity because he has not been authorized to discuss internal campaign matters.

The trip is now a focus of congressional and FBI investigations into Russian influence in the 2016 presidential election.

Lewandowski told POLITICO he did not recall the email exchange with Page, but did not deny that it occurred.

“Is it possible that he emailed me asking if he could go to Russia as a private citizen? I don’t remember that, but I probably got 1,000 emails a day at that time, and I can’t remember every single one that I was sent. And I wouldn’t necessarily remember if I had a one-word response to him saying he could do something as a private citizen,” Lewandowski said Tuesday.

Hicks declined to comment. But a White House official said campaign officials did not discuss Page’s planned trip before he left for Moscow.

“No one discussed the trip within the campaign and certainly not with candidate Trump directly,” said the official.
The official pointed to a July statement from Hicks which declared that Page was in Moscow in a private capacity and was not representing the campaign. That statement came in response to media reports from Moscow about Page’s presence there.

Both Lewandowski and the White House official cast Page as a minor character on the periphery of the campaign, who was a foreign policy adviser in name only.

“I’ve never met or spoken to Carter Page in my life,” Lewandowski said.

Gordon and Page had no comment on whether the Trump campaign officially sanctioned the trip, which has drawn the attention of investigators from the FBI and congressional committees investigating possible Trump campaign ties with Russian officials before the election.

And while Page has repeatedly denied wrongdoing in connection with his Moscow visit, it is now drawing increased scrutiny as a result of new disclosures about his contact two weeks later with Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak at the Republican convention in Cleveland. Just days after Kislyak talked to Page, Gordon and a third campaign official, WikiLeaks disseminated thousands of emails stolen from the Democratic National Committee’s servers — a hack that U.S. intelligence later attributed to the Russian government.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-08 00:38:01
March 08 2017 00:36 GMT
#141490
Whoever teamed up with Russia failed. Simple history. Hitler, Eastern Europe, etc. Does USA want to be next? Go ahead.

Note: I don't support Hitler. It's just an example. Same as Eastern Europe.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 08 2017 00:37 GMT
#141491
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
March 08 2017 00:51 GMT
#141492
On March 08 2017 09:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/MEPFuller/status/839233122482941953


Charming.
On track to MA1950A.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
March 08 2017 00:54 GMT
#141493
On March 08 2017 09:18 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 09:15 LegalLord wrote:
Too bad Wikileaks isn't releasing full source code for the CIA leaks at the moment. It sounds like a whole lot of fun to sift through CIA-made exploits for the funsies.


Would be awesome for people with a deep career in netsec.

My chem-e dream has always been to get a hold of the kinds of devices you could make using electron beam lithography instead of conventional light lithography. With electron beam lithography, it would not be too difficult to make 1nm transistors and other similar devices. A monumental "cost" that wouldn't really matter to the CIA for making ultra specific devices.

It's too bad that all of the jobs that have access to the most awesomest tech tend to be a bummer to work in from a salary/working condition perspective.

Take the NSA for example. Working in a military base under persistent scrutiny? Not the most funnest life one could live. But the technology there is beautiful.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 08 2017 00:55 GMT
#141494
On March 08 2017 09:51 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 09:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/MEPFuller/status/839233122482941953


Charming.

The party of the working people and poor.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
March 08 2017 00:59 GMT
#141495
I don't think I understand what the republicans actually want out of health care. I'm not sure they do either.
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-08 01:00:09
March 08 2017 00:59 GMT
#141496
On March 08 2017 09:55 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2017 09:51 m4ini wrote:
On March 08 2017 09:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/MEPFuller/status/839233122482941953


Charming.

The party of the working people and poor.


Clearly.

Take the NSA for example. Working in a military base under persistent scrutiny? Not the most funnest life one could live. But the technology there is beautiful.


Well if you play your cards right, you can even get an unlimited stay in a country that doesn't extradite to the US.

I don't think I understand what the republicans actually want out of health care. I'm not sure they do either.


I don't actually think they want to.

I think it's the name Obamacare (even though that's actually not the name).
On track to MA1950A.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
March 08 2017 01:13 GMT
#141497
On March 08 2017 09:59 Tachion wrote:
I don't think I understand what the republicans actually want out of health care. I'm not sure they do either.

I think the basic problem is that they have several different factions in their party with starkly different goals, and they're trying to make something they can pass off to all of them plus the voters.
It probably makes more sense if you look at through the lenses of each of those.
I might be able to explain it some detail, though I'm sure someone more familiar with the republicans could do a better job of that.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 08 2017 01:26 GMT
#141498
Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) has now lost two Sunshine State offices where constituents frequently gathered to push him to hold a town hall, the Washington Post reported Tuesday.

A week after the landlord of Rubio's office in Tampa declined to renew its lease over the protests, the owner of his Jacksonville office made the same decision, also citing the large crowds who gathered outside the building. The Jacksonville property manager said protests were disruptive for patients visiting a center for children with mental health issues that is adjacent to Rubio’s office, according to the report.

Rubio spokeswoman Christina Mandreucci lamented in a statement to the Post that the “unruly behavior of some anti-Trump protesters” was causing the two small offices to shutter, though she acknowledged that most people turning up to voice disapproval for Rubio “have done so in a productive and respectful way.”

The Florida senator has so far resisted calls to hold a town hall on replacing the Affordable Care Act and other key issues under consideration, saying it would be unproductive to have protesters “heckle and scream at me.”

Indivisible, a national movement of progressives that sprang up after the election to push back against the Trump administration, has organized many of the protests outside Rubio’s offices. Other local offshoots of the movement have confronted Republican lawmakers at town halls across the country.

Indivisible Clay County organizer Jeff Allstadt told the Florida Times-Union that protesters had been respectful and did not intend for Rubio to lose his office spaces.

“We’re just constituents, and we’re trying to make points, discuss issues with him, and we’re going to do it wherever he sets up shop,” Allstadt told the paper.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
March 08 2017 01:27 GMT
#141499
The problem is that the Congressional GOP is full of unprincipled cowards who are more concerned with politics and optics than either representing their constituents or leading them. This is why traditional conservativism is in crisis and will likely be going the way of the dodo.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
March 08 2017 01:56 GMT
#141500
Politics for politics sake and optics will totally wreck the GOP on healthcare. Seriously looks like they'll squander the kind of popular support that they had for repeal that led to absolutely historic congressional majorities. But they're running, or most are, to keep their seat and sit on their hands, only rising to pass token measures or bellyache about the lack of bipartisanship. When voters look at congressional representative races in two years, they'll remember the repeal slogans that meant nothing after all. If Trump pushes Obamacare with different colored subsidy/tax/mandate, he'll fall some too. But he's a populist and could sense it beforehand.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
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